Tires & Wheels -Sienna - wider wheels

new_one · January 2017

Has anyone ever installed/tested 17x7.5/Offset:40mm rims with standard 235/60/R17 tires on the latest (2016/17) Sienna FWD LE?

If yes, did you ever experience any type of rubbing in any driving conditions?

The reason I am asking is that the published wheel width limit is 6.5-7" here: https://www.wheel-size.com/size/toyota/sienna/2017/... and I am going to exceed it by 0.5".

I also understood that 17" OEM wheels come of the following standard: 17x7/Offset:35mm.

Thank you guys in advance for replies and/or references to similar discussion threads.

thecardoc3 · January 2017

Maybe this is another one of those times when someone wants to change something about their car and starts looking for something off the shelf to fit their idea of what they think will be better than what the factory engineers designed the car to use. We see this so often it really makes you wonder what the vehicle owner was really thinking. Changing the wheel offset changes the angle called scrub radius. Scrub radius is the difference between the centerline of the tire and the line where SAI (steering axis inclination) intersects the road. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrub_radius

Without going into too much detail today's cars with hub bearings put the center line of the wheel in the centerline of the twin ball bearing hub making both bearings carry the same weight. Older cars that had the short arm/ long arm suspension put the majority of the vehicle weight closer to the larger inside tapered roller wheel bearing, but still between both bearings. Moving the centerline of the wheel in either case repositions the weight of the car incorrectly on the bearings. In the short term 5mm isn't going to produce a noticeable result, but over time it could shorten the life of the bearing. The bigger question is what would this change do to the scrub radius. As mentioned in the link, a more positive scrub radius would make the car take more effort to steer at speed, a more negative one would make it easier to steer, but if reduced too far could make the car susceptible to wandering since they use positive scrub radius to permit using less caster. The increased offset would move the wheel inward and decrease the scrub radius. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheel_sizing#Offset

kyfdx · January 2017

You really won't know without test-fitting.
There is also a backspacing measurement.

Why take a chance on a relatively new vehicle?

new_one · January 2017

Thanks kyfdx,
As I could understand "test-fitting" is a special tool, correct?
If so, do you mean that some wheel models of the same full set of published parameters may fit ideally (will never cause any problems) and some may cause problems? In other words, do you mean that: you will never be sure of a wider rim model until you have vehicle, rims and test-fitting to check if they match?

From the other hand: is "test-fitting" is thoroughly enough to answer the question OR driving tests will require as well?

Let me also ask if “Rim & Tire Size Calculator” like the one here: https://www.wheel-size.com/calc/ can worth to use at all?

I am asking all this as I wanted to buy new rims to be installed by the dealership before the minivan goes out to the road for the first time.

kyfdx · January 2017

Test fitting: Taking off your tire/rim, and putting on the new tire/rim to see how it fits.

Yes... there could be rims with the same specs you've listed, that will not fit your vehicle.

Is your plan to buy aftermarket rims/tires from a third party? On a Sienna? For what reason?

new_one · January 2017

First I will need a second set of winter tires on wheels.

Second I wanted to have a better looking (than original Toyota rims) third party rims to be used for summer.

Third I thought: Why wouldn’t I use original Toyota wheels with winter tires and better-looking-third-party wheels with summer/all-season tires?

Toyota sales manager does not mind to switch/install wheels and tires as I prefer if I make sure myself that new 0.5"-wider rims will not cause any problems.

texases · January 2017

No way to know for sure without putting them on and subjecting the car to a full range of suspension and steering movements, something very difficult to do. And even if they fit, they could put stress on the wheel bearings if the offset is different than stock. Between the risk of tires rubbing and incorrect offset, no way I'd risk it just for something different.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2017

Getting offset right can be tricky. I always remembered that more than 5mm offset deviation from stock was not recommended, in either direction. Positive offset is more dangerous than negative offset.

kyfdx · January 2017

If going aftermarket, It's hard to go wrong picking from the choices that Tire Rack has for your car. Stick with stock tire sizes. At least they will guarantee they will fit.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2017

Some folks like the "deep dish" look and that's why they go offset.

new_one · January 2017

Hi texases and others,

I did not take into account the factor of "extra stress on the wheel bearings if the offset is different than stock", which is surely makes sense.

But can we actually trust to this website https://www.wheel-size.com/size/toyota/sienna/2017/
...which says "Offset (mm): 35 - 45" ?

Can anyone answer if it represents Toyota's official specification or not?

And then, if it can be trusted as Toyota’s official specification, shall I interpret this 35 – 45 offset range as allowable or recommended?

If it cannot be fully trusted, can anyone send me a link on a more reliable specification (if exists)?

Thank you in advance.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2017

I don't think Toyota is going to recommend a 45 mm offset, that's pretty certain.

The manufacturer selling you the wheel should be able to give you the proper offset specs and backspacing specs for your particular vehicle. That's their job and their expertise.

And yes, negative offset will stress the stub axles and bearings, and if your tire protrudes beyond the fender borders, then you'll be illegal and will have to install wheel flares.

kyfdx · January 2017

IMHO, going wider on a FWD vehicle is just asking for trouble. Do you already own tires/wheels in this size, and are trying to use them on this vehicle?

If not, then keep searching until you find something you like in the proper size.

new_one · January 2017

After searching for hours and hours I can surely say that there is simply no aftermarket wheels with the following parameters:
17x7/Offset:35, PCD 5x114.3
It seems this is the final point we have approached and there is nothing to discuss.

texases · January 2017

What wheels does tire rack list? I'd trust their choices.

kyfdx · January 2017

new_one said:
After searching for hours and hours I can surely say that there is simply no aftermarket wheels with the following parameters:
17x7/Offset:35, PCD 5x114.3
It seems this is the final point we have approached and there is nothing to discuss.

Let's start over.

First, the link in your original post gives the wrong information for the 2017 Sienna with 17" wheels. The stock OEM wheel is actually 17 X 7.5", not 17 X 7".

Tirerack.com shows 50 (50!!) aftermarket wheels that they guarantee will fit your vehicle.

Starting with bad information yields bad results. No wonder you couldn't find what you were looking for.

new_one · January 2017

kyfdx said:

new_one said:
After searching for hours and hours I can surely say that there is simply no aftermarket wheels with the following parameters:
17x7/Offset:35, PCD 5x114.3
It seems this is the final point we have approached and there is nothing to discuss.
Let's start over.

First, the link in your original post gives the wrong information for the 2017 Sienna with 17" wheels. The stock OEM wheel is actually 17 X 7.5", not 17 X 7".

Tirerack.com shows 50 (50!!) aftermarket wheels that they guarantee will fit your vehicle.

Starting with bad information yields bad results. No wonder you couldn't find what you were looking for.

Sienna's OEM wheel size of 17"x7" (not 17"x7.5") was given to me in Toyota's dealership.

17"x7" can also be supported by this link http://www.originalwheels.com/toyota-wheels/sienna2016rims.php
You will not find a wheel of 7.5" width even for 18" and 19" models.

If you consider Tirerack.com as a guarantor of right fitment, they obviously do not care much of your vehicle scrub radius, as there are 13 wheel models (coming up for Sienna) with offset greater than 40mm; two of them (ENKEI CUV & X-OVER) have 45mm offset.

I can remember someone mentioned "I don't think Toyota is going to recommend a 45 mm offset, that's pretty certain."

If now we are talking of fitting only:

I noted that Tirerack.com makes you "trust" to wheel models causing up to 19.7mm backspacing measurement reduction (relatively to OEM wheel). This is valid for 5 FOCAL (F13, F14, F20), having 42mm offset and 8" width.

42 – 35 = 7mm
8" – 7" = 1" / 2 = 25.4mm / 2 = 12.7mm
7 + 12.7 = 19.7mm

Now put yourself into my shoes and tell me if you would need "fit-testing" before spending around 800$ on 4 aftermarket rims causing only 11.35mm of backspacing measurement reduction.

Thanks for everybody's brainstorming.

P.S. I do not mind if you slightly drift from Tirerack.com and a stock concept now in your judgment.

new_one · January 2017

Please read "backspacing measurement increase" instead of "backspacing measurement reduction" in my previous post.

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