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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,218
    Not the expert..just butting in, as usual..

    1) You will owe the rest of your payments, then they will send your car to auction, and you will also owe any deficiency between residual and actual sale.. This could cost you thousands and thousands.. You would be better off selling it yourself and paying the difference.

    2) Yes.. If you find a buyer, they can assume your lease from BMWFS for a transfer fee (somewhere around $500). BMWFS will then release you from liability (some banks won't do that). Assuming they qualify.

    3) Your other option is to trade your car in.. But, you will owe the difference between what the dealer gives you and your payoff.

    regards,
    kyfdx

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  • upndwnupndwn Member Posts: 44
    mgobluejoe - RUN AWAY FROM THAT DEALER. DO NOT EVEN LET THEM COMPETE FOR YOUR BUSINESS!

    See post #13831. They are holding out on $4,000 of lease cash!!!

    In mid-September, I was offered a Saab 9-3 Aero w/ MSRP ~$36,000 for a cap cost of only a little more than $29,000. Money factors are more favorable to consumers and lease cash has increased, now that it is October. My 36/15000 quote was ~$400/mos (before state sales tax) with $1,000 due at signing!

    There is no way that the reduced residual value attributable to the additional annual mileage would tilt the deal any where near your quote.
  • infinitimninfinitimn Member Posts: 146
    Thanks for the help. I was able to lease this Mountaineer Premier truck for 36 months/10,500 miles with a price of invoice less $2000 lease cash, $500 returning Mercury lessee bonus, $750 Ford Finance cash, and another $550 dealer discount, for a cap cost of about $30475, compared to sticker of $37550. Lease was at 0.75% and 51% residual. It took getting two dealers negotiating against each other. Including the bank fee, my payment is $359.
  • jpmjpm Member Posts: 3
    Car_man,

    Thanks for the reply. I am dealing with several dealers via the internet, however, no one will give me a price other than MSRP. Can you recommend a "ball park" price I should be using.

    Thanks,

    JP
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    You don't say what area you are in but if there is a Carmax nearby you may want to take it there for an appraisal. They will just buy the car from you without you having to buy one of theirs. Also, as a dealer they would be exempt from any sales tax so their payoff might be lower than the one you are getting through BMW.
  • alphawolfalphawolf Member Posts: 100
    Is there a really good article on all the in's and out's of a lease here on Edmunds?

    If so- please post a link. :)

    TIA

    Deam
  • coppercopper Member Posts: 94
    Hi Carman,
    I'm about to sign papers for a 2005 Volvo XC90 T6 (thanks to you!)....The dealer is telling me the acquisition fee for NY is $995. This sounds crazy to me. Can he be marking this up? Is that legal? Does putting multiple deposits increase this fee?
    Also, is a $250 advertising fee on the dealer invoice a legit fee?

    Thanks again,
    Copper
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,332
    '04 Phaeton..
    $699/mo.. $999 due at signing (1st pymt, $300 cap cost reduction)
    No security deposit
    3yr/30K miles

         =======================

               Thats probably the buy of the year ...

        **1) You will owe the rest of your payments, then they will send your car to auction, and you will also owe any deficiency between residual and actual sale.. This could cost you thousands and thousands.. You would be better off selling it yourself and paying the difference.**

              You gotta be "real careful" with these .. the dealer might say it's fine, but it's the leasing company that will make the ultimate decision .. sometimes depending on the time of the year, the region and how many vehicles are coming down the chute they will just want the balance of payments (minus) the interest, plus the residual ~ no matter what the dealer says - they Always need to get this in writing from BMW/MB/Audi/Ford, etc ... I'm going thru this with an Audi customer as we speak ............. ;)

                                             

                                     Terry.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,218
    http://www.edmunds.com/advice/leasing/articles/78385/article.html- ?tid=edmunds.a.landing.leasing..2.*

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  • kray724kray724 Member Posts: 1
    Hi,

    Is it possible to break the lease (I have 9 months left in my QX4 lease) without affecting my credit score?

    I hear these advertisements about large dealerships "paying off" the lease and finance their cars...

    Thanks much,

    K.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,332
    ........ "Dealerships" have nothing to do with the lease co's after you sign the papers and your down the road ... everything after that is between you - and the lease co .... now, there is some programs for early terminations if you trade into similiar manufacturer vehicles and there is some loyalty support that goes on ....

                   If your are just dropping the keys and walking away without paying the vehicle "off" ~ then it becomes a REPO and kills your credit .. there is little difference on a lease VS a purchase, one is a rental agreement and one is a ownership agreement, you still owe both .............. :)

                                  Terry.
  • catchit16catchit16 Member Posts: 2
    Hi Car Man, I'm looking to lease a 2005 Acura TL, automatic, with navigation system. I live in CT, but am talking to a dealer in Westchester/Putnam NY. For a 36 month, 15K lease I was quoted $563 per month with $1874 due at signing. For 42 mo, 15K I was quoted $499 per month with $1776 due at signing. The dealer says he started at $1500 over invoice. MSRP is $34,900 and Edmunds has invoice at $31,800.

    Are the price quotes fair? Also I have two months left on my existing 2002 TL lease. What's the best strategy for rolling into a new lease before the old one expires?

    Thanks, in advance!
  • alex123alex123 Member Posts: 36
    Car_men, please tell me what are the numbers on ls430 12000-36month 2004 and 2005, I have a dealer selling me a 2004 "at invoice" so I want to see is it worth getting or not.
  • evilangelevilangel Member Posts: 11
    Hey Car_man
    intested in leasing a 04 (if they still have it) or 05 BMW 325Ci Coupe.
    could you advise the money factors, residuals, and dealer cash (if any) for 36/39/42 months, 10/12k per year
    thx & keep up the good work
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hello mgobluejoe. You should be able to lease any 2004 Saab for invoice minus any available dealer cash incentives right now. I don't know the exact invoice price of the models that you are interested in, but you should be able to look them up in the New Vehicle Pricing section here at Edmunds.com. Let's assume for now that there is a spread of $1,500 between the MSRP and dealer invoice price of this car. This would mean that you should aim for a selling price of MSRP $31,070 minus the $1,500 dealer margin minus $3,500 dealer lease cash for an approximate capitalized cost of $26,070 on this 2004 Saab 9-3 Linear Sedan. If you were to lease this model through Saab Financial Services Corp. this month for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00074 and 44%, respectively. Using these numbers and the selling prices that I mentioned earlier, I estimate that this car would have a zero down, pre-tax monthly payment of right around $374. If the payment hat you were quoted is much higher than this, you need to do some more negotiating or to work with a more reasonable dealership.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hello mahiri. I have never personally shipped a car from the east coast to the west coast or vice versa, but I know someone who has. I'll e-mail them and see if I can get the name of a good shipping company for you. Please post a quick reminder in this discussion for me in a day or two and I will let you know what I have been able to find out. Talk to you soon.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi shellyd. Let's work up a sample lease payment on this truck for you and see what we come up with. According to my calculations, if you were to lease a 2005 Honda Pilot EXL with a full MSRP of $32,635 and a capitalized cost of $32,159 ($30,159 selling price + $2,000 in negative equity) through American Honda Finance Corp. this month for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, your zero down, pre-tax monthly lease payment should be right around $463 or so. Since the payment that you were quoted does not include taxes, it looks to be a little on the high side to me.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Oops, you are absolutely correct, Viggie. Porsche Credit's 15,000 miles per year residual values are indeed 2% lower than its 12,000 miles per year residual values, so this change looks fine to me. The more miles per year one is allowed to drive, the lower its vehicle's residual value will be.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    You are absolutely correct, slocko. I do not believe that Acura is providing any sort of lease support on the 2005 MDX at this time. As a result, if you were to lease one through American Honda Finance Corp. right now, you should have to use its standard lease money factors. Its current base standard lease money factor for 36 and 39 month leases should be .00245. I have not seen the residual values for the '05 MDX yet, but the factor is the most important number to know anyhow because banks' published residual values are set in stone and individual dealerships do not have any authority to change them. I am not aware of any source the makes the details of manufacturers' lease programs available to the general public. Consumers Reports definitely does not have this info.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi vincent1. SmartBuy is General Motors' brand name for its balloon note program. Most states calculate tax on balloon notes differently than they do on leased vehicles. Unfortunately, many states do charge tax on vehicles' entire selling prices for balloon notes, making the tax much higher than if one were to lease an identical vehicle. I am not personally familiar with New York's exact policy on the taxation of balloon notes, but you may be able to find out more information on this subject by visiting one of the following Web sites: New York State Department of Motor Vehicles Internet Office or New York State Division of Taxation and Finance.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi again vincent1. If you are new to the world of leasing, you may want to check out the following informative article that is available right here at Edmunds.com: 10 Steps to Leasing a New Car. It contains a ton of useful information and is a must read for anyone who has never leased a vehicle before.

    In answer to your specific question, at lease signing, consumers are usually required to pay their vehicle's first month's payment, a security deposit that is equivalent to that payment rounded up to the nearest $25 or $50 increment (unless the bank that they are leasing through is waiving this charge), a lease acquisition fee which varies from $400 to $1,000 depending upon the bank that you are leasing through and the state that you are in, and any sort of down payment that you are making (ideally consumers should lease any vehicle that they are interested in without making any cap cost reduction).

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Greetings acorby. You are in luck. While there is no "truck money" on the 2004 BMW 330Ci Convertible right now, BMW did enhance its lease program on it this month. It seems as though BMW usually cranks up its lease support on convertibles once the summer is over, which makes sense. If you were to lease a 2004 BMW 330Ci Convertible through BMW Financial Services right now for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00140 and 57%, respectively. BMW is not providing any sort of lease support on 48 month leases of this vehicle. The longest term that its special money factors are available for is 42 months. Its 42 month, 15K base factor and residual for this car should be .00140 and 52%.

    BMW is not providing any sort of lease support on the 2005 330Ci Convertible yet. So if you were to lease one through BMW FS right now, you should have to use its standard lease money factors. I believe that its 36 and 42 month base standard money factors are currently around .00255 and .00275, respectively. The corresponding 15,000 miles per year residual values for this car should be 61% and 56%.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hey liannell. Infiniti Financial Services has published a lease program for the 2005 Infiniti G35 Coupe, but it has not published any numbers for the '05 Sedans yet. It may do so this week if Infiniti just announced the pricing for this car. Please feel free to check back with me in a few days and I will let you know if I have heard anything yet. Talk to you then.

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  • viggieviggie Member Posts: 16
    Dear Carman

    I would like to thank you very very much for all your help. Will get the lease sign today. Because of you and all of the info on edmunds we were able to educate ourselves and make an informative decision. We also got another "quote" from a different Porsche dealer and were able to see that they were real sharks. The one that we are dealing with right now has been straight foward since the beginning. Hopefull everything will be fine at the papers signing! Will keep you posted otherwise.

    Thanks again
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hello hpoohh. I would be more than happy to analyze this lease for you. However in order for me to do so I need you to tell me what this car's selling price is. This is an extremely important number for you as a consumer to know anyhow. This because the selling prices of leased vehicles are negotiable, just as if you were paying cash for them. Without knowing this car's price, it is difficult to tell what sort of deal you are getting. Afterall, if you were paying cash for or financing this car, you would want the dealer to tell you how much they were charging you fir it, right? The second reason why we need to know this car's selling price is that it is difficult to calculate a lease payment on it without this number. If you let me know what this car's price is, I will tell you what I think of it and will be able to work up a sample lease payment that you can compare to the one that you have been quoted.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    You're welcome, bpd196. Something doesn't make sense here. The bank that you are leasing your Voyager through told you that you could pay $7,485 and sell it to a dealer right now or wait two months and buy it for $11,491? Either there was some sort of miscommunication there or the person who you spoke with made a mistake because there is no way that it would cost you less to purchase your leased van two months before your lease is up than it would at its scheduled end.

    Unfortunately, DaimlerChrysler minivans generally do not tend to hold their value well. I do not personally know how much you should expect to get for your van as a trade, but you should be able to get a good idea by looking up its Edmunds.com True Market Value in the following section of this site: Edmunds.com Used Vehicle Pricing or by stopping by the following discussion that appears here in the Smart Shopper Forum: sysop "Real-World Trade-In Values" Oct 24, 2004 8:31am.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi dannyp1. Here is the information that you are looking for. If you were to lease a 2005 Nissan Altima 2.5 S (this car's program varies by trim level, let me know if you are interested in a different model) through Nissan Motor Acceptance Corp. this month for 36 months with 15,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00127 and 61%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical 39 month lease should be .00199 and 60%. The numbers for an otherwise identical 48 month lease should be .00199 and 50%. Nissan is not providing any cash incentives on leases of this car this month. Even though one would be able to get a lower lease payment by leasing for the longest terms, the 36 month term has the most attractive lease program on it right now because it has the lowest money factor and the highest residual value.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hello mtomeo1. Unfortunately, there really are only two options for consumers who want to get out of their leased vehicles early. The first is to find someone to assume your lease. In order to do so, one has to be sure that the bank that they are leasing through allows this sort of transaction and one often has to sweeten the pot a little bit by supplementing the monthly payment with a one time payment to the person who assumes your lease.

    The other way to get out of a lease early is to purchase your vehicle from the bank that you are leasing it through and sell it yourself or trade it in. In order to find out how much it will cost you to do so, you need to place a call to the bank that you are leasing it through and ask for the current buyout amount. In addition to your vehicle's current purchase price, your bank may also require you to make all of your remaining payments when you purchase your leased vehicle. As you can imagine, this can be very expensive. Once you have figured out exactly how much money it will cost you to purchase your leased vehicle, compare that figure to what it is realistically worth on the open market. The difference between these two numbers is the amount of money that it will cost you to get out of your lease at this time.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    I'm always glad to help, infinitimn. Congratulations on your new truck. It sounds like you got a heck of a deal. Thanks for taking the time to come back and let us all know how everything turned out. Enjoy!

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    You're very welcome, JP. You definitely should not be paying full MSRP for a 2005 VW Passat right now. I am not intimately familiar with what the market is like for the '05 Passat, but I would suspect that if you were to shop around that you could get one for around $500 over invoice. If not right now, definitely in a month or two once the remaining '04s are all gone. For more feedback on the pricing of this car, you should stop by the following discussion: "Volkswagen Passat: Prices Paid & Buying Experience".

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi Deam. Edmunds.com has several great articles on leasing. Here is a link to a whole page of them: Edmunds.com Leasing Tips. If you are new to the world of leasing, you definitely should check a few of them out.

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  • enya18enya18 Member Posts: 19
    Looking to lease an '05 Camry Solara (SLE V4-Auto). What's Toyota's lease program like (money factor, residual, acquisition fee, etc.)? Thanks!
  • eagwheelseagwheels Member Posts: 7
    I feel like I am going in circles and hate the feeling as if I am being toyed with. This week I head back to the same dealer & I am told that the .00146 MF they provided me with last week was a mistake and that they had given me the MF on 2004 program and incorrectly applied it to the 2005 pilot. Honest mistake or just another trick up the dealer's sleeve? MF is now .00260 and residual of 64% on EXL & 66% on EX. But, He promised to keep the monthly payments quoted last week the same by dropping selling price to just a few hundred $ above invoice.
    While the residuals are now in line with what you communicated the MF is at a slight premium to the rate you indicated above. And higher than what another dealer quoted .00235 with the same residuals (however this dealer was not as competitive on the price ). It is unclear to me whether these (AHFC) MF are negotiable with the dealer?
    Obviously now I am happy with the selling price but not the MF. Last week I was happy with the MF and thought I could do better on the price. Your thoughts are appreciated.
  • alphawolfalphawolf Member Posts: 100
    I read the article on leasing (with the 10 steps) and found it helpful.

    I was wondering if there were any noteworthy site like http://leasecompare.com/ out there? I'm finding it very helpful as a guideline for general prices paid.

    Hope it's OK to mention as Edmunds itself mentions in within the lease article.

    Also, is Florida one of the states that charges tax on the entire lease or just the 1st month and initial payment?

    One thing I didn't see covered in the lease step-by-step was if you move during your lease to another state.

    My friend moved from NY to Florida and was told his 330RX needs to be returned to the dealer that he got it from. He thought it could be returned to any dealer.

    In playing with the website above I noticed there were some good prices on 39 mos leases vs 36 month leases. It seems a good price decrease to have the vehicle another 12 weeks.

    I'm glad I found this site and use all it's features. It makes me confident knwoing I will not make any mistakes. :)

    Regards,

    Dean
  • rick2340rick2340 Member Posts: 5
    Car Man -

    I'm interested in leasing an Infiniti G35 Sedan. Our local dealer has about 25 2004 models left over. Any idea if Infiniti is going to have any lease specials in November to move these cars. I'm not sure how the inventory is at other dealers - but our local dealer has a lot of 2004 models left.
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hey Copper. The last time that I looked into it, Volvo Finance's acquisition fee was $595 in most states and $695 in New York. Much like they are allowed to mark-up lease money factors, some banks give dealers the authority to mark-up lease acquisition fees. This sort of thing is completely legal. Making multiple security deposits on a vehicle should not increase its acquisition fee. It is difficult for me to say what Volvo charges its dealers for advertising. Rather than looking at this charge as a separately, look at the total price for the vehicle that you are interested in. If the price, including all charges, is less than or similar to prices that you were quoted from other dealers than it doesn't really matter how it breaks down.

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  • tonyt1tonyt1 Member Posts: 4
    Hi Car_man,

    Saw your info on Altima 2.5S 36-, 39-, 48-month, 15k leases. What are money factors and residuals for the 2.5 SL? Are they different? THANKS!
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hello kray724. Nothing is free in this world. The dealerships that say they will pay off your current leased vehicle are either rolling the negative equity from your current lease into your next loan or lease or charging you an arm and a leg for your new vehicle to cover the cost of getting you out of your current deal.

    The only way to get out of a leased vehicle before the scheduled end of your lease is to purchase it from the bank that you are leasing it through. In order to find out how much money it will cost you to do so, you need to place a call to the bank and ask them what your vehicle's purchase price currently is. In addition to paying this price, many banks also require consumers to make all of their remaining payments. As you can imagine, this can be really expensive and often adds up to more than one's vehicle is worth on the open market. Your least expensive option would be to continue driving your truck until you are closer to the scheduled end of your lease.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi catchit16. I am sure that dealers are trying to get as much money as they can for the all new 2005 Acura RL right now. I suspect that many of them are going out the door for close to full MSRP since many dealers had lists of people waiting for this car. If you shop around a little bit you may be able to get a thousand or so off, but I doubt that you will be able to negotiate a price that is closer to invoice on one for at least several months. I have not seen Acura's lease program for this car yet, so unfortunately I can not work up a sample lease payment on it for you.

    Car_man
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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    "Car_men, please tell me...", if there's more than one of me, why am I always so busy ;), alex123. I would be more than happy to help you out. If you were to lease a base 2005 Lexus LS 430 without navigation through Lexus Financial Services right now for 3 years with 12,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be around .00210 and 59%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical lease of a 2004 LS 430 should currently be .00210 and 52%.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Here you go, evilangel. If you were to lease a 2005 BMW 325Ci through BMW Financial Services this month for 36 months with 12,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00220 and 58%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical 42 month lease of this car should be .00220 and 53%. The 10,000 miles per year residual values for this model would be 1% higher. The base money factor for 36 and 42 month leases of the 2004 version of this car should be .00020 and the 12,000 miles per year residual values should be 57% and 51%. I don't believe that there is any dealer cash on either of these models this month.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    You're very welcome, viggie. Thanks for taking the time to say thanks. Make sure to come back and let us know how you like your new ride after you take delivery of it.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hello enya18. Toyota's lease program for many models varies depending upon which one of its 12 regions one is in. It would be a big help if you let me know what state you live in. I also need to know how long you want to lease this car for and how many miles per year you need to be able to drive it. Once I have this additional informaiton, I will see if I can find out what this car's current lease program is like for you.

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    It is difficult to say whether this was an honest mistake or a case of the old bait and switch, eagwheels, but I can tell you that you are correct that this special money factor is only available on 2004 Pilots right now. Honda is not currently providing any sort of lease support on the '05 Pilot. Vehicles' lease money factors are negotiable in that one needs to know what a bank's published money factors are because dealers are allowed to mark them up to add additional back-end profit to deals. However, dealers are not allowed to lease vehicles to consumers using money factors that are lower than a bank's published rates.

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  • mahirimahiri Member Posts: 26
    Great. This is a quick reminder. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
  • phillycowgirlphillycowgirl Member Posts: 6
    Hi. I just visited a dealer on Saturday and these are the numbers he gave me for a lease:

    MSRP:39010
    36 month/45,000 miles
    Selling price: 34531
    Service Contract: 475
    Acq. Fee : 595
    Residual%: 53%
    Money Factor or Lease Rate: 8.25
    Total Monthly Payment: 512.28

    Is this a good offer? What can be negotiated?
    Thanks!
  • cdc1cdc1 Member Posts: 1
    I leased a vehicle 1 year ago. It is a 1-year lease with no monthly payments anda single payout option. I am exercising that option now. When I leased the vehicle I paid 5% Maryland sales tax on the full price of the vehicle. Now, I am being asked to pay 5% Maryland sales tax on the residual amount. It feels as if I am being double taxed on the residual amount. Is this correct?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,218
    New ad today in my local paper..

    36mo/30K lease

    $599/mo. with $2339 cap cost reduction

    $2999 due at signing (no security deposit)

    For those that are interested... dirt cheap for a $70K car.

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  • phillycowgirlphillycowgirl Member Posts: 6
    Thanks, I've updated my post.
  • slockoslocko Member Posts: 111
    Thxs. I still can't believe that the mdx lease is probably going to be lower than my touring odyssey lease. The base money factor is lower on the mdx and I think the residual is higher.

    Is .00245 with deposit or without? Why doesn't 39 months lower the residual since you are putting 3 more months of wear and tear on the vehicle?
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