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In response to bror's comment about extreme levels of protection...with moly, I was reffering to thier non api oil since it is a known fact that thier xl7500 series meets api and would not have any higher levels of protection than any other standard oils. So, I WAS reffering to thier non api oil since this is the one touted as thier best oil. There is no argument that they carry 3 oils certified.
armtdm... Redline is not api certified because of the heavy moly but because of the heavy use of zddp (like amsoil). The moly has no effect on the standard astm tests used for the certification.
Another point is the cost of certification is very inexpensive (less than 900.00). It is the actual tests that costs so much. Because of that alot of companies opt not to have them tested therfore no certification. That said, how can they say they meet(or exceed) api specs since they don't have the tests done? I could mix some oil together and bottle it, tell you it exceeds the api specs, and there is no way for the avg person to know otherwise. case in point, look at all these oil additives out there. thier tests are done in cars on the track or personal friends. obviously amsoil does do atleast some oil analysis.
I totally agree it is ashame they use such marketing tactics. That is one of my biggest problems with them. I try not to hammer thier oil as far as quality but thier way of mis leading people into believing all of thier propaganda. I just want people to know what consiquences they will have if they follow amsoils advice on extended drains and such. I strongly believe you cannot just throw that oil in and go 25k miles on any oil with out first doing a purge. Then after that there should be a oil analysis program in place when extending. The biggest problem is they don't advise customers on how to properly extend drains and thereby some people pay for it. I have had people say "your company wont do 25k drains but amsoil will so yours isn't as good." my response is we don't encourage anyone to extend blindly but we will extend. we have people doing 10-30,000 mile drains but only using analysis and usually has to be steped up not just put it in and go that far. There is far too many variables for each person to just blanket extended drains at a set milage no matter what as alot of you do know. This is one of the things that gets my goat and why I try so hard to help people understand before they run into serious problems.
One other point I want to mention is Why do you think redlines gear oil is so good... Because they use the moly. The moly cannot be squeezed out between the gear teeth therefore it reduces the friction and will increase milage. Most all gear lubes use heavy amounts of zddp and that's why you don't see much advantage with amsoil vs some of the others. This is what schaeffers had pioneered with and is in most all of thier lubricants from oils, greases, ogls,and even hyd fluids. This one thing is an exceptional additive that really makes a strong difference in protection.
In the case of gear lubes, I don't know for sure but I believe Redlines as amsoil wont climb but rely's on the splash system. when oil is in the bottom of the pumpkin, the ring gear has to splash the oil, and when you first start to move the gears can't splash until you start to move at a higher speed. One of the reasons big trucks rearends have more casulties than automotive.
schaeffers put a creep additive in so it will climb.
Here is a little experiment to try... put your gear lube in a small bowl and take a manual egg beater and put it in striaght up like your going to beat eggs. when you turn the beater does you lube climb up or does it push away? in schaeffer case, it will climb all the way up to the handles where every one elses i have tried that with pushes away. this is one part of how a lube works aside from the ep additives and other parts.
If your doesn't climb, go get some lucas additive and put it in and watch how it affects it. That is a bright stock which will cause it to climb.
It is really amazing to me how the little things about lubricants can add up to making a great oil, and in this case of the gearlube, creep,antiwear,ep additives can make a big difference in how it works.
have a good day guys.
bob in jville.
superior high temperature oxidation resistance, high film strength, very
low tendency to form deposits, stable viscosity base, and low temperature
flow characteristics. Synthetics are superior lubricants compared to
traditional petroleum oils. You will have to decide if their high cost is
justified in your application."
In the article the specs of 5W-30 Amsoil, Red Line and yes even Mobil One looked good to me.
http://www.eskimo.com/~dalus/bmw/all/misc/all_oilfaq.html
In response to bror's comment about extreme levels of protection...with moly, I was reffering to thier non api oil since it is a known fact that thier xl7500 series meets api and would not have any higher levels of protection than any other standard oils. So, I WAS reffering to thier non api oil since this is the one touted as thier best oil. There is no argument that they carry 3 oils certified.
armtdm... Redline is not api certified because of the heavy moly but because of the heavy use of zddp (like amsoil). The moly has no effect on the standard astm tests used for the certification.
Another point is the cost of certification is very inexpensive (less than 900.00). It is the actual tests that costs so much. Because of that alot of companies opt not to have them tested therfore no certification. That said, how can they say they meet(or exceed) api specs since they don't have the tests done? I could mix some oil together and bottle it, tell you it exceeds the api specs, and there is no way for the avg person to know otherwise. case in point, look at all these oil additives out there. thier tests are done in cars on the track or personal friends. obviously amsoil does do atleast some oil analysis.
I totally agree it is ashame they use such marketing tactics. That is one of my biggest problems with them. I try not to hammer thier oil as far as quality but thier way of mis leading people into believing all of thier propaganda. I just want people to know what consiquences they will have if they follow amsoils advice on extended drains and such. I strongly believe you cannot just throw that oil in and go 25k miles on any oil with out first doing a purge. Then after that there should be a oil analysis program in place when extending. The biggest problem is they don't advise customers on how to properly extend drains and thereby some people pay for it. I have had people say "your company wont do 25k drains but amsoil will so yours isn't as good." my response is we don't encourage anyone to extend blindly but we will extend. we have people doing 10-30,000 mile drains but only using analysis and usually has to be steped up not just put it in and go that far. There is far too many variables for each person to just blanket extended drains at a set milage no matter what as alot of you do know. This is one of the things that gets my goat and why I try so hard to help people understand before they run into serious problems.
One other point I want to mention is Why do you think redlines gear oil is so good... Because they use the moly. The moly cannot be squeezed out between the gear teeth therefore it reduces the friction and will increase milage. Most all gear lubes use heavy amounts of zddp and that's why you don't see much advantage with amsoil vs some of the others. This is what schaeffers had pioneered with and is in most all of thier lubricants from oils, greases, ogls,and even hyd fluids. This one thing is an exceptional additive that really makes a strong difference in protection.
In the case of gear lubes, I don't know for sure but I believe Redlines as amsoil wont climb but rely's on the splash system. when oil is in the bottom of the pumpkin, the ring gear has to splash the oil, and when you first start to move the gears can't splash until you start to move at a higher speed. One of the reasons big trucks rearends have more casulties than automotive.
schaeffers put a creep additive in so it will climb.
Here is a little experiment to try... put your gear lube in a small bowl and take a manual egg beater and put it in striaght up like your going to beat eggs. when you turn the beater does you lube climb up or does it push away? in schaeffer case, it will climb all the way up to the handles where every one elses i have tried that with pushes away. this is one part of how a lube works aside from the ep additives and other parts.
If your doesn't climb, go get some lucas additive and put it in and watch how it affects it. That is a bright stock which will cause it to climb.
It is really amazing to me how the little things about lubricants can add up to making a great oil, and in this case of the gearlube, creep,antiwear,ep additives can make a big difference in how it works.
have a good day guys.
bob in jville.
Also, 99.9% of driving public drives 15,000 miles or less per year so extended drains are sort of meaningless as all oil manufacturers state to change oil at least once a year regardless of mileage. All use a non API certified oil. 4 use 10W30 and 1 a 0W30
Schaeffer Oil sounds like a good oil at a good price ... but if you are not in Florida or the greater SouthEastern US, you are not likely to run across this stuff. It seems to be a regional brand. I'm sure there are other brands that fall into the same category. Amalie? Wolf's Head? Kendall? CAM2? I'm not sure about those but they don't seem to be as widespread as Mobil, Valvoline, Pennzoil, QS, etc ...
Royal Purple? I think this stuff is pseudo snake oil heavy on hype (and purple dye) and low on substance. Their site alone should convince you of that. I remember talking to one guy who used their gear oil in his Subaru. He couldn't believe the racket that the tranny made after the change. Usually people try to convince themselves that the switch to a new 'special' oil was a GOOD thing. In this case, it was noticeably worse and he switched immediately to something else to get rid of the noise and the wear in the gear box that was inevitably occurring. I'd only use Royal Purple in a lawn mower ... and a really old one at that. Ick!
I don't know nuttin' about Torco. I rarely see the stuff and have never talked to anyone who uses it.
If you KNOW the base oil of a given brand is very good, I don't think API certification means much. I can't see the Group V polyol ester stocks of Red Line, for example, failing to meet the volatility and anti-oxidation limits of the new SL standard. Plus, if API wants to disqualify an oil because it has TOO MUCH of a good thing like ZDDP or moly, well, shame on them. If these clowns wanted to REALLY make themselves useful, they should come up with a meaningful industry standard for the term "synthetic".
There are synthetic oil companies with good reputations out there and I'd trust them when they say their oils meet API specs even if they only do their own testing, doughnut be damned. >;^)
jofficer, I think everyone has to make their own judgment on that issue. If I were to buy a new car tomorrow, I'd use the required SL grade of 5W20 or 5W30 while the car was in warranty period, follow the extreme service schedule and if I wanted to use a synthetic, I'd pick one that I knew was actually special and capable of significantly greater protection, not merely one that is 10-20% more stable at double or triple the price.
Frequently changing brands (on a whim) is not really recommended but the chances that you'll get into trouble doing this are very remote ... and getting more so as oils are becoming more uniform in the face of stricter standards (SL and what will follow).
Peter78, I like Hackett's article a lot but the info (specs) on it are dated by a decade or more. Don't swear by them. All of those oils have been reformulated 2-3+ times since then.
Bob, I'll have to get a cheap egg beater and whip up the Red Line MTL I just bought. >:^)
--- Bror Jace
How true but un-do-able that statement is! None of the current holders of the "right" to call their petroleum imitator products synthetic is going to acquiesce to a demand to cease and desist. It might be better to develop a new "sub-category" to the synthetic class, and make that the home of the real stuff.
I'd be interested in seeing how the Redline gear lube does on that. Please let me know.
bob
All that article does is hype up the more importaint parts of amsoils oil and misses other issues. Might I suggest that you order from IOM a copy of the actual field oils that was tested by an independant lab that is not affiliated with any one oil company. They provide you actual astm numbers with 8 basic things to compare against. I have found it to be quite interesting myself and it really opened my eyes to some interesting points.
Here is thier web site if you want to see what thier tests sheets look like.
http://www.engineoilinfo.com/
I looked at Synergen's site (which isn't terribly informative) and they cite their oil's "climbing" ability. That might make the difference right there as long as synergen used moly and a decent base oil in their gear oil.
I'm not a fan of the person-to-person sales situation. I find the charming (Clintonesque) reps a little off-putting. I did notice, though, that all their racing customers seemed to be circle-track guys from Florida ... which is where you say you live.
Oh, and I was in a store today and I looked at the back of a bottle of SL class Mobil 1 (5W30 & 10W30) and I saw the familiar bullet points but they omiited the one bragging about their oil being a "low-phosphorous" formula.
Hehe, I wonder why? >;^D
--- Bror Jace
SUPERCHARGERS. YOU WILL NEED 8OZ.OF OIL FOR YOUR 1997 S/C.
YOUR GM DEALER ALSO SELLS THIS OIL
,WE SELL THE 8 OZ. BOTTLE FOR $30.00."
I promised to post the reply from The Eaton Rep in California, regarding the type, and amount of oil I need to service the Supercharger unit in my 97 Buick Park AVE. Ultra.
In former posts, it has been suggested that a" 5-30 Synthetic " would do.
Now I know that Redline, Amsoil and others are at least double the price of Dino Lubes but" 8 OZ. for $30.00?"
Anyone know whats in THIS stuff?
Simple question: SL vs. SJ - what's the difference and how does it apply to the Mobil 1 that I use?
wolverine, you need to scroll back 30-40 posts and read that article adc100 posted a link to. It describes SJ vs. SL in educated layman's terms.
As for Mobil 1, one of their techs (rightly or wrongly) told someone on this board that they had to improve the formulation to pass those standards.
--- Bror Jace
Fuel Economy
Emissions
Extended Drain Performance
I doubt that the Mobil 1 with the new spec is a whole lot better. I'm not throwing away my old Mobil.
Here is the link in pdf format:
http://www.tosco.com/internet_pub/repository/lubes/44_tn3_4.pdf
All these guys are from up north... Atleast from where i'm from I'd consider them north.
Glenn Allen
Kinnie Baugh
Kevin Cradler
Randy Donohue
Sonny Haerr
Tim Haerr
Keith McDine
Randy Mougey
Jeff Morris
Matthew "Spanks" Overbeck
Mike Stacy
Dave Renner
John "Weasel" Rhoades
Tony Traficant
if you follow my racing link out and on the bottom of one page is a selection for drivers and each one has thier own web page.
bob
"I'm a believer in results, and was tired of buying $1500 ring and pinions. One day I was whining to a fellow racer in Phoenix about how poorly our gearbox has holding up with Red Line, and he suggested Synergyn's Syngear, saying that he had used it with fantastic results at a big vintage race at Road Atlanta. I bought some and have been happy ever since."
"There could be some 'Bright Stock' in Syngear, I honestly don't know. One thing I always noticed about Red Line gear oil, though, is that it
ran like water after a stout track session. And it didn't seem to have any 'cling' to keep it on the gears, which led me to question its suitability for use in the Staffs gearbox on our Ralt.
The Staffs is a Formula 3 style gearbox, and as such, is equipped with very narrow gear faces. The pressures seen in this type gearbox in a
1350 pound, full ground effects race car with 240 hp are simply incredible, and it was common to throw away gear sets worth several hundred dollars after just a few track sessions. Ring and pinions were thrown away every few hundred miles, even though the Staffs is a full pressure box with a spray nozzle aimed at the R&P intersection as well as a fully pressurized lay shaft. Replacing the R&P wasn't just preventive, they were chewed up with bad galling on nearly every face!
After switching to Syngear, I've run R&P's over 1000 miles with no galling, and even second gear goes a full season. What can I say? Maybe the Syngear does have a bit more drag - it certainly appears thicker after a track session, but it works where it counts.
BTW, I'm not affiliated with Synergyn in any way, other than as a satisfied customer. They wouldn't even give me any sponsorship, the
tightwads...
Synergyn down when they asked me to try a couple other product lines of theirs, tripod/CV grease and qualifying engine oil. I stick with
Red Line's tripod/CV grease because I've never had a bit of trouble in this area. And I'm not going to take a chance with our $30,000 engine."
Interesting, eh?
--- Bror Jace
from Magnuson products in California, the local GM parts counter has the 'Special GM oil in 4 oz. bottles for about $2.95! Everyone insists that "you can't change out the oil" Even the Tech that I talked to who was actually working on a blown Eaton Supercharger at the time...HIS OWN! Same problem..the front bearings went. the rear bearings are sealed in those units, and the front ones run in the 8 oz factory fill, synthetic (mystery) oil bath. For the record, (according to the GM folks, these units run "forever") As we all learn tho,, as in everything in life, and under the hood, there are always exceptions to every rule. As for me, tomorrow I am going to be out there with a turkey baster with a piece of tubing down that little fill hole, sucking out as much of that old oil as I can get, (complete with any bearing debris), and replacing it. For the 8 oz of new oil and the price of a Wallmart turkey baster, I might just get the last laugh on this one.
bob
http://www.gp-owners.com/owners/wydride/pulley4.html
The first page is here:
http://www.gp-owners.com/owners/wydride/pulley.html
The SJ bottle says Pump.
The SL bottle says Pour.
They show the same temp but they measure different things. The pour point of an oil is lower than the pumping limit. That means the SL has a higher pour point and pumping limit than the SJ.
The 7oz of oil that I sucked out of mine (with 48,000 miles on it) was almost black, had metal debris in it, and stunk to high heaven!
I let the dirty oil settle in a clean glass container and it didn't take long for the metal particles to start to slowly settle out and become visible, in the bottom. When I wiped out the container, the clean white rag was grey from the filings. What a disgusting, vile smelling mess! If you are running a super charged engine, and believe GM's recommendation that these units "Never have to be serviced, just topped up",Good Luck!
I would sincerely recommend that any home-garage mechanic get, keep, and maintain at least one if not both of the following Mityvac items:
P/N 7200 Fluid Evacuator
P/N 6810 Automotive Servicing Pump
A rubber hose and a large kitchen syringe is really doing it the hard way. The numbers above are subject to change over time, but the timeless items are prized possessions once you have them at hand. If you have a little time to spare waiting for delivery, you might find these available from J. C. Whitney-- I did.
I'm gonna keep tabs on that guy and see how he does this season. I might even see him on Speedvision at the Valvoline Run-Offs in September at Mid-Ohio race course. >;^)
I like the way he thought highly of Red Line products in general ... but thought he had found better products for certain applications. Sounds fair and objective.
longo32, what is the job of that oil in the superchargers? Just to lubricate the bearings? Do any byproducts of combustion get into the oil. If you are not worried about contaminents, I'd use one of Redline's racing formulas ... either their straight 20 or 30 weight racing oils. These are actually fairly thin and act like multi-vis oils despite being rated as straight weights.
--- Bror Jace
Except that ZDDP remained the same. That was already changed with SJ.
The front section, tho, can go South' for a couple of reasons...natural galling of the drive gears, creating metal fileings in the oil, that in turn, get into the pulley bearings and eat them up. The other feature of this unit is the heat that builds up in the sealed gear housing..the oil gets boiling hot during operation. As everyone on this site knows, bad things start to happen to good oil under severe heat. All this is manageable IF the oil is clean, good quality, and up to the proper level. My quest for some straight answers on changing out the oil and replacing it, has met with "these units are not meant to be serviced, just topped up" And indeed, if you look at them, they certainly were not DESIGNED to be serviced. But once you go to all the trouble of rigging up your own little drain tool and sucking out the oil, you would see that it should be serviced, and probably every 30,000 miles (or less)! If the unit is going to get a noisy front bearing, then the fix is an expensive one at the dealerships. After a $2000 fix, you drive away from the dealership with the same inherent problem you had with the first one...you are told NOT to change out the lube, just top it off. From the dirty, smelly, polluted lube that I got out of mine today, I am urging anyone with a supercharger to get that old unfiltered, filthy oil OUT of there, and do it sooner, rather than later.
I already reported to my wife, that we must replace the oil in future. Currently have 16-17k miles on our Regal.
By the way, why it costs $2000 to repair the part?
The Magnuson nose costs only about $300 with shipping.
http://www.grandprixstore.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=GPS&Product_Code=202&Category_Code=004
Do-yourself mechanic can replace it in about 1.5-2 hours, according to the following link:
http://www.gp-owners.com/owners/wydride/pulley9.html
http://www.gp-owners.com/owners/wydride/pulley.html
At current labor rate, it sums up to about $500.
Any case, $5.50 of oil every 30k miles will cost substantially less.
Another quote from my factory manual, in bold type:
"CAUTION: Do Not remove the oil plug when the engine is warm. The engine should be cool to the touch. Approximately 2-3 hours after running. Removing the oil plug at warm engine temperatures can cause hot oil to overflow. This could result in oil loss and possible personal injury."
I know that brightstock carries no antiwear properties and does not offer anymore wear protection, but increases the clinging of the oil/lubricant. being a petroleum base lubricant it has no problem mixing and this is what lucas uses in thier product. As for STP or Schaeffers, no idea. (it could very well be bright stock as far as I know).
I do know that STP uses zddp as an increase additive for antiwear properties.
I too agree, Redline is an excellent product but feel it has some draw backs. This is one of the reasons I like the Schaeffers, They thought it through and saw the weak areas and came up with some solutions. Take thier grease for example, ever see a boat trailer on the side of the road missing a wheel? yeah, guy didn't grease it... not always true.. they were using the standard lithium complex grease.
Question, If i was to come to you and try and sell you some soap to put into your bearings what would you tell me? GO AWAY? well my friend, Lithium is a soap complex also used in your color bar deoderant soaps. what does soap do when mixed with water? yep, it emulsifies and washes away. when the complex washes away, nothing is there to how the oil so the oil goes away. This is why the grease turns milky when exposed to water. imagine that, that milky looking grease, is a combination of soap and water being held in your metal bearings and eating away causing the bearings to pit and even rust if left long enough.
try this experiment, go to your garage, get your best grease out, put a dab in the palm of your hand and then put water on it. with your other hand take your index finger and mix the water with the grease. you'll find it to start milking up and breaking down right there in front of you.
I even saw a moreys grease that said waterproof and it even milked up.
Schaeffers on the other hand, uses a different complex that wont mix in any way and of course you guessed it, they have moly in thiers as well.
end of class.
bob
As 'alcan' walked us through the rest of the problems, you will notice that the diagnosis STARTS with the nose cone and front bearing noise, but by now this is just a symptom of the carnage from the gears wearing out and contaminating the oil, turning it into a grinding compound.
So, for $300.00 bucks you don't get all the gears that are now wearing out, or the vanes that might be damaged, or the rear sealed bearing that might now be running rough. 8 oz of scalding hot oil churning in that Hellish environment has a tough job to do
Under all those RPM's and gear friction, it's no wonder GM doesn't want you touching the filler plug on the supercharger after it's been running. The boiling oil is probably close to vapor form by now and taking the plug out would be like popping off your radiator cap on a summer trip to Phoenix. Still, the system provides an incredible amount of power and economy for the little V6. All I am saying is, don't believe GM, that 8 Oz of factory fill oil is going to hold up under these horrific conditions for the life of the car. The mess that I sucked out of mine yesterday looked like a sample from the Tar-Pits, and stunk like a Texas road Kill.
So what kind of lube are you going to use?
<Bob>, I don't use too much grease excpet in my garden tractor's spindles. My Civic is about due for CV joints and axles but I'll have a shop do that whole job and they'll use whatever they'll use.
Stan the Racer said he was very happy with Red Line's grease. I know a friend of mine who has some of this and I might ask him if he could whip some up into a frothy meringue. >;^)
I do have SOME "water-proof" grease that is a clear-greenish color and is REALLY thick. I might try playing with it on a day when I don't mind getting a little sticky.
Yes, I knew that most greases had soap in them ... which I always thought was a bit weird. Why not use a really thick petroleum product or even a thickened polymer? Oh well ...
Hey, I just changed the MTL in my Honda. Does Schaeffer make a syncromesh transmission oil for manual trannies?
Oh, in case anyone cares, the synergen site is:
http://www.synergynracing.com/
and Stan the Racer has some pictures of his car on this site. Look for him at the Valvoline Run-Offs in September.
http://home.earthlink.net/~richpeople/
rayfbaird, since the "conventional" oils reformulated using more hydrocrakced oils and/or possibly some synthetics (PAO or esters) to meet the SL standards, why wouldn't a 100% synthetic formula be able to meet this standard as it was? I just don't get it.
--- Bror Jace
Concerning your report about the poor state of the used oil you extracted from SC:
I consider it directly applicable to my 2000 Regal. I shared immediately the info with my wife. Very useful information for our saving account:-). Additionally, I posted a link to your report on the Regal board.
Thank you again for the input.
Now I wonder, when to change the oil. At 17k miles it looks a bit early; probably I will wait till 20k.
I use it in my Toyota 4WD. Toyota calls for some of the drive train lubes to be Moly based and other's to be a different type of grease. They all get the Unirex. 75K-noproblems. Oh -it works very well in boat trailers. You will have to buy it ad an industrial supply place or jobber.
I have seen some of these complexes using a high amount of thickner or tac often mistaken as a complex which(the complex not the tac) actual holds the base oil. Fact is, some are so heavy with this tac that it looks like bubble gum. You see reps out there with a spring loaded hammer demonstrating the tac. After the complex gets washed out, you end up with nothing left but this bubble gum and no oil.
Moly will not do any good either if the complex is milked away since that is what holds the componets like moly and the oil of the grease together. As you know, this(moly) is a solid style moly and helps reduce heat and reduces wear in the extreme pressures. zinc is also used for this purpose as a normal ep grease but moly is a step up from zinc. Moly helps provide a higher resistance to heat along with a higher base oil will tend to make it a high temp grease.
Reversibilty is another key factor where you'll find when the grease is heated to such a point that you'll find the complex seperated and wax buildup on the outer part (like in the cap on wheel bearings) and the oil has deminished to near nothing. This part is very important in a quality grease.
If this grease you are reffering to is actual water proof, it most likely is an aluminum complex or maybe a bentone. This type of complex is very unusual in most all stores. Like some top grade underarm deoderants with aluminum complexes, this will in no way absorb nor breakdown with water(salt or fresh water).
I think valvoline makes an aluminum complex with moly and that would be a good one. I believe the cost is around 4-5.00 per tube as well.
A grease like that valvoline and schaeffers, once put in, will not wash out and won't require relubrication for a long time. case inpoint, I have a big asphalt plant with two locations,they used 6 cases of grease every 2 months between the 2 locations. After the 2nd 2 months of using the aluminum grease, they still had 2 cases left. Now over 2 yrs of using this grease, they order once a year, 8 cases, and have experienced no bearing failures during the last 2 yrs.
So aside from the lower failures, they have reduced grease consumption due to the fact it doesn't wash out at all, thus lower and less regreaseing required.
bob
ps, avg cost 2.61 a tube.
Trying to find practical answers from Synthetic Motor oil info, is like wading off into an endless swamp. I think most of us here would just like to know this...what's the best oils and lubes, based on 'real experience'. But of course that will never happen, "Snake Oil Salesmen" are still alive and well out there, and some of them are now cruising the internet, looking for suckers.
.... so we have to keep screening through the posts looking for the odd nugget of hard fact, based on actual use of these expensive products. Your experience with "cases" of grease each year add up to lifetimes of use by the average user.
Since they started leaving out grease zerks on U-Joints and front end components years ago, most modern car owner wouldn't know one end of a grease gun from the other. About the only grease I now get to use, is on my garden tractors and other farm implements.
Kinda miss those quiet times under my car looking for those little hidden grease zerks and giving them a few shots..
It looks like he got all his chapter titles from these discussions.
Anyone ever bought/borrowed,or read this thing?
Would love to hear a review......
You might check with napa and see if they have the valvoline grease with the moly and aluminum complex locally.
--- <b>Bror Jace
Go to Products - Grease - Check out Polyrex and Unirex