I am interested in a 2003 Hyundai Santa Fe LX. It has 29,000 mi on it, leather, automatic 4x4 ABS. The numbers I was faxed are 19,735.00 which includes the acquistion fee. Sales tax (MI) is 6.00 on monthly payment. No down payment and the payments for 36 mo would be 356.85, for 48 mo 321.15. What else should I be looking for as far as numbers. It just seems high to me. Thanks.
Thanks Car_man, do you know how often do the residual values change ? Is it worth waiting for the "December to Remember " without using a crystal ball : loosing residual vs potential lower money_factor
coder: are you trying to lease a used Sante Fe? And for $357 per month? Carsdirect has a brand new 04 Sante FE LX Awd for $22,700. The 03 you are looking at has two years worth of miles on it for only $3000 less. Seems like you should try to get a new one IMO.
Has anyone Leased a G35X in the NYC area. I am looking to lease the 2004 G35X and wanted to know if anyone has any advice on dealers and what I should be paying for it. I am looking at the G35x with premium package.
Here are the specifics: I want to lease the '05 Camry Solara (either the SE Sport or SLE) for 36 mths. (12,000 miles/yr.). I'm located in Miami, FL. I remember seeing somewhere that the acquisition fee for Toyota's Lease program is around $1000! Isn't that a little high? Is it negotiatable?
Hi rick2340. It is difficult to tell exactly what a manufacturer will do with its future incentives on a particular model, but the days of attractive leases on 2004 models are quickly coming to an end. The closer we get to the end of the model year, the lower the residual values will be for leftover models. Usually at some point, the residual values will have fallen enough that it just becomes too expensive for a manufacturer to provide enough lease support to arrive at an attractive payment on leftover models. When this time comes, many automakers end their lease programs and replace them with dealer cash. Infiniti already has $500 dealer cash on '04 G35 Sedan AWD and $1,000 on '04 G35 Sedan 2WD models. If they are going to make any sort of enhancement to this vehicle's incentives, I would guess that it would be to the dealer cash rather than to the lease program.
Hey tonyt1. The Nissan Altima's lease program usually varies a little by trim level. If you were to lease a 2005 Nissan Altima 2.5S through Nissan Motor Acceptance Corp. this month for 36 months with 15,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00127 and 61%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical 39 month lease should be .00199 and 60%. The numbers for an otherwise identical 42 month lease should be .00127 and 58%. Finally, the numbers for an otherwise identical 48 month lease should be .00199 and 49%.
Appropriate name for someone who's interested in a pickup truck, phillycowgirl . As you can see, Ford's lease program on the F-Series Pickup is not very attractive. It has never really had to provide much in the way of lease support on this truck. I guess that the lack of lease support hasn't hurt sales any, considering that it has been the #1 selling model in America for something like 25 or 30 years running. Judging by the lease program that you outlined in your post, you are considering leasing a 2004 F-Series. If this is the case, the lease rate that you were quoted is right on the money and does not need to be negotiated. Individual dealers do not have any authority to alter banks' base lease residual values so you don't have to worry about that number either. You should focus your negotiations on this vehicle's selling price. The selling prices of leased vehicles can be negotiated just as if you were paying cash for them. This number is important to know so that you can tell what sort of a deal you are getting and so that you can calculate a sample lease payment on the vehicle that you want. When negotiating this truck's price, keep in mind that Ford is providing $3,500 lease cash on it.
Slocko, AHFC's base standard lease money factor for vehicles that have had a security deposit paid on them is .00345 for this term. Its base standard factor for vehicles with a waived security deposit would be .00010 higher. Some manufacturers run special promotions that allow the use of 36 month residual values for 39 month leases in order to provide lower lease payments, but I do not believe that AHFC is running this sort of program right now. Generally speaking, its 39 month residual values are 2% to 3% lower than its 36 month residuals.
Thanks for the insight, Car man. Yes, the cash back for the 04's is very attractive right now. On this particular deal, they want to sell it to me for $100 over invoice but I just found a dealer who has the same vehicle but with 1 more option who wants to sell it for $32,500. So the later is definitely the way I want to go.
Hi coder218. I am surprised that one could even lease a 2003 Hyundai Santa Fe any longer. Its 3 year, 15,000 miles per year residual values for the 2004 version of this truck are currently in the mid-30% range. So the residual values for a brand new 2003 model would be unbelievably low. So much so that leasing one at this time would not make much sense. This lease probably is not through Hyundai's captive finance company, unless this is a CPO vehicle and Hyundai is running some sort of special used vehicle lease program on it, which is unlikely. I bet that you could lease a brand new 2004 Santa Fe for less than one could lease a 2003 model at this point. You should have the dealer that you are working with run the numbers on an '04 Santa Fe for you and see what they are like.
You're welcome, alex123. Some banks publish new residual values on a monthly basis, but Lexus Financial Services seems to publish new residuals every other month. I suspect that it will publish a new set of residual values in early November. If I was in the market for a new Lexus and I was not in a hurry, I think that I would personally be inclined to wait until December to see what sort of lease promotions it offers, but there certainly is no guarantee that its December lease program will yield significantly lower payments than its current lease program would.
Thanks for the additional information, enya18. The fact that you are in Florida means that you reside in Toyota's Southeast region. As you may already be aware, the sale of Toyota vehicles is a little different in your neck of the woods than it is in the rest of the country. Toyota does not provide its vehicles directly to dealers in its Southeast region. Instead its vehicles are given to its Southeast Toyota distributor who in turn provides them to dealers. This is a problem for consumers because the distributor often adds options and charges to vehicles that make purchasing one in the Southeast more expensive than an equivalent vehicle would be elsewhere in the country. It also uses its own finance company, SE Toyota Finance, instead of Toyota Financial Services. Unfortunately, I have not seen SE Toyota Finance's current lease program for the 2005 Solara and will not be able to shed any more light on what its program should be like for you. Sorry that I could not be of any more help.
Yes, tonyt1, NMAC's lease program for the 2005 Nissan Altima 2.5S and '05 Altima 2.5 SL are currently exactly the same. Its lease program for the '05 Altima 2.5 SL, 3.5 SE, & SER are different though.
I have an offer of 487 plus 595 acquisition fee for 05 EX with leather and DVD system in NJ. I have heard of deals from 464 to 524? Is there a way to get rid of the acquisition fee? How is this calculated so maybe I can bring it down?
Here are the terms they offered: 62% L.E.V., 36 months, MSRP $33,170, Lease Factor .0024, 10,000 Miles a Year, Security Deposit $500, Trade In $3000 (for 95 BMW 318ti), $2284 Down. Monthly Lease (w/Tax) $345.
Does this seem fair?
I'm wondering if they're high on the Lease Factor and low on the price reduction from MSRP.
Also is a $725 Assignement Fee/$249 Processing Fee too high?
I am planning on leasing a Honda Odyssey EX-L. I have called/emailed a number of dealers. Some dealers use Honda Financing numbers for MF and Residual amounts. Other dealers have a data base of many banks to choose from and have given me lower MF and and higher residual amounts.
My question: In leasing from a Honda dealer, is there an advantage in getting a Honda Financing lease instead of a bank lease? Are there pitfalls I should be aware of when going outside Honda Financing. The dealer will be the one handling the transaction and suggesting the bank.
Also, how much negotiation room is there in the MF of Honda Financing? What is the dealer buy rate?
Thank you Car_man, So the money factor is 0.0002 for 2004 and 0.00220 for 2005? not to mention the MSRP of the 05 has gone up for $1200. That's about 10times more on interest? Actually this is the first time i plan on leasing a car, after reading this forum for over half an hour, i found out that the money factors usually go down during the end of year. Do you think November and December is the best time to lease a car? if not, pls advise when would i get the best deal in a year? I wanted to get rid of my 90 corolla that started to give me troubles recently.
Can you help me find out the money factor and residual for the Mercedes Benz C230K Sport Sedan? term would be 36, 39, or 42 months 10k/yr do you remember when's the last time Mercedes Benz offered special lease rate? e.g. below 4.99% (0.0020) I always think that the Mercedes is more expensive to own than a BMW. Also is Mercedes offering the same thing as putting 1 extra security deposit will bring down the money factor by 0.0001, any limit?
You're welcome, catchit16. Ah ha, you were talking about the 2005 TL, not the 2005 RL, huh. I wonder where I got the '05 RL from. Oh well, perhaps someone else out there can use the RL informaiton.
$1,500 over invoice is an OK price for the TL, but if you are in an area where there is a decent amount of competition for your business you should be able to do better than that by shopping around. Let's work up a sample lease payment on this car using that price and see what see come up with. According to my calculations, if you were to lease a 2005 Acura TL with navigation (MSRP: $34,900 / cap cost: $31,800 invoice + $1,500 = $33,300) through American Honda Finance Corp. right now for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, your zero down, pre-tax monthly lease payment should be right around $494. As you can see, the payments that you were quoted look to be a little on the high side to me. At lease signing, you should only have to pay this car's first month's payment, a security deposit of that payment rounded up to the nearest $25 increment, and AHFC's acquisition fee of $595. If you were able to negotiate a lower selling price, say $1,000 over invoice, it would drop the payment for an otherwise identical lease to around $488. A selling price of $500 over invoice would drop it to around $464.
Hi glermin. There is a great article on how to calculate lease payments here at Edmunds.com. Here is a link to it: Calculate Your Own Lease Payment. You definitely should check it out before leasing your next vehicle.
Lease acquisition fees are set by the bank that you are leasing your vehicle through and individual dealers do not have the authority to waive them. American Honda Finance Corp.'s base acquisition fee for leases in your state is currently $595. If you are being charged any more than this, your dealer may be trying to pad this fee to add additional profit to your deal.
The two most important numbers to focus on when negotiating a lease are the vehicle's selling price and its lease money factor. The selling prices of leased vehicles can be negotiated, just as if you were paying cash for them. You definitely need to know what price you are being charged for the vehicle that you want to lease because without this number it is difficult to see what sort of a deal you are getting and tough to calculate a sample lease payment on it. With a brand new vehicle like the 2005 Odyssey, you will probably have a tough time negotiating a significant discount at this time but you need to know the selling price to be able to tell exactly what sort of a deal you have been quoted.
The money factor that is being used to calculate your lease is important as well because many banks give dealers the ability to mark-up their base lease money factors to add additional back-end profit to deals. I doubt that Honda is providing any sort of lease support on the '05 Odyssey at this time. If this is the case and you were to lease one through AHFC, you would have to use its standard lease money factors. Its current base standard money factor for 3 year leases is .00250. Make sure that you are not being charges any more than that.
Well, this post should answer a number of the questions that you have about leasing, but please let me know if you think of any others.
Hello tarlaws. Let me begin by saying that I always advise consumers against making any sort of down payment when leasing. I do so for two main reasons. The first is if your vehicle is totaled in an accident or stolen during your lease, your insurance company pays off the bank that you were leasing it through and your down payment essentially disappears. The second main reason is that down payments on leased vehicles do nothing to reduce their lease-end purchase prices. So your lease-end purchase option price for this 3-Series would be exactly the same, regardless of whether you had put $2,284 down, or had made absolutely no down payment at all. If you really feel the need to trade in your current car, have the dealership that you are trading it in to cut you a check for it rather than using your trade-in allowance as a capitalized cost reduction.
Most dealers charge some sort of doc fee on deals. This number is not much more than a way for them to pad their profits, but it is acceptable as long as you know this, the fee isn't too high, and the overall price that you were quoted, including the fee is less than or equivalent to what you would have to pay to purchase a similar vehicle at another local dealership. The $249 "Processing Fee" and $725 "Assignement Fee" add up to almost a thousand dollars in dealer fees, which is way too much to pay.
Another problem that I have with this deal is that BMW Financial Services' base lease money factor for this car is currently only .00220. You were quoted a money factor of .00240 without any sort of waiver of BMW FS' security deposit requirement. This means that the dealer that you are working with is probably marking-up BMW FS' base factor to add additional back-end profit to your deal.
You never mentioned this car's selling price in your post, but this is probably the most important number to know when negotiating a lease. The selling prices of leased vehicles are negotiable, just as if you were paying cash for them. Without knowing this number it is difficult to tell how much money you are paying for the car that you want and to calculate a sample lease payment on it. When negotiating this car's selling price, keep in mind that BMW is currently giving its dealers $1,500 dealer cash on the 2004 325i. This money will help you to negotiate an attractive selling price on this car, probably one that is $500 to $1,000 below invoice.
As you can see, I personally have a number of problems with this deal. Let me know if you have any other questions.
Hi pen101. Most dealers have computer systems that allow them to search the country for the bank that has the most attractive lease program on any vehicle at a given time. I am not surprised that an independent bank would have a more attractive lease program than Honda's captive finance company does on an unsupported vehicle like the 2005 Odyssey. There definitely is nothing wrong with leasing through an independent bank if the deal that you can get through it is significantly better than the one that you could have gotten through American Honda Finance Corp.
AHFC's base lease standard lease money factor is currently .00250. I doubt that it is providing any sort of lease support on the 2005 Odyssey, so this is probably the factor that you would have to use to lease one through it at this time. This factor is not negotiable in that dealers are not allowed to use a lower factor than the published one. However, it is important to make sure that the dealer that you are working with is not marking-up a vehicle's published money factor to add additional profit to your deal.
You are correct, evilangel. It is difficult to predict what a manufacturer's future lease program will be like with 100% accuracy. Manufacturers often enhance their lease support on vehicles as the model year progresses. There definitely is a good chance that BMW's lease program on the 2005 325Ci will be more attractive in December than it is now, but again there are no guarantees that this will be the case. Generally speaking, the later in the model year we get, the more willing dealers will be to negotiate vehicles' prices and the more support its manufacturer will have to provide on it.
Hi again evilangel. According to the latest information that I have seen, if you were to lease a 2005 Mercedes-Benz C230K Sport Sedan through Mercedes-Benz Credit Corp. right now for 36 months with 10,000 miles per year, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00225 and 61%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical 42 month lease should be .00225 and 57%. This rate is considered supported by Mercedes-Benz because it is lower than its normal standard lease money factor. I believe that MBCC does allow consumers to buy down their vehicle's money factor by making additional security deposits, but you need to check with your dealer to find out for certain.
Thanks for the reminder, mahiri. I looked into this issue for you and have heard very good things about Dependable Auto Shippers. They've been in business for 50 years and supposedly are one of the main auto shipping companies for eBay autos. You can visit its Web site at http://www.dasautoshippers.com or call them at 800-826-1083.
Thanks. I calculated the residual value - 61 + 2 for 12,000 miles, divided by 36 the depreciation, multiplied the entire cap cost (even at MSRP + delivery and prep) and added tax. So how come my numbers are $50 less than all my quotes? 436 vs. 486? (or $17 more a month with acquisition cost added in) No other missing numbers that I know of.
You're very welcome, tarlaws. If you were to get the dealer that you are working with to pass along the entire $1,500 in dealer cash, provide you with a selling price (including any sort of fees like its doc fee) before incentives that is $500 to $750 over invoice, and use BMW FS' base lease money factor to calculate your lease payemnt, then this deal would be more reasonable. You can always comparison shop with a few other BMW dealers if you feel as though there is too many obsticles standing in the way of this being a good deal. .00220 is BMW Financial Services' base lease money factor for this car and term for consumers who make a security deposit. It will waive its security deposit requirement in exchange for an increase of .00015 in a vehicle's money factor and will waive its lease acquisition fee requirement in exchange for an increase of .00030 in every state but New York.
One dealer faxed me the "motor vehicle worksheet." Included in it is the "monthly lease fee" which adds total capitalized cost AND depreciation then multiplies it by the money factor, .00250. Is this a scam? Isn't this double charging? Boy, this is frustrating.
It is difficult to say why the lease payment that you came up with is lower than the one that the dealer quoted you. Perhaps they are adding in a doc fee or an advertising fee. Perhaps they are marking-up the bank's base money factor to add additional back-end profit to your deal. Perhaps they are charging over full MSRP for this new van. Perhaps their payment quote included tax. Or perhaps your calculations are off. I don't remember if I referred you to this article before, but you definitely should check it out: Calculate Your Own Lease Payment.
I'm looking into leasing a 2004 Honda Civic EX (4 doors, auto, side airbags). I'm waiting for some quotes from local dealers, but in the mean time I was wondering if you knew AHFC's base lease money factor for this car.
Also, does that money factor vary depending on the length of the lease (I'm assuming the answer is no)?
Finally, I believe Honda has a Marketing Suport incentive going for the 2004 Civic EX sedan ($1000?) - can you confirm if this is the case?
Thanks for your response. I have read Calculate your Lease Payment. The only thing that is different than my calculation is that when doing the finance fee, instead of multiplying the money factor rate with the cap cost, he multiplied the rate with the cap cost + the residual amount. Thus it was .00250 x $53,547.80 (33,129.50 [cap plus tax] + 20,418.30 [residual value]) giving $133.87 instead of .00250 x $33,129.50 = 82.82.I just want to know if this is legitimate or just another way to raise the amounts.
Here is the reasoning behind the money factor calculation..
1) Cap cost and residual are added together to come up with an "average" amount of principal to base the finance charges on.. What the calculation really does is adds them together, then divides by two.
2) Instead of actually dividing that amount in half, they make the money factor half of what it would normally be.. Just to simplify the calculations.
3) This is why to get an equivalent interest rate, you multiply the money factor by 2400 instead of 1200.
4) So, to make it clearer... they could add them together, then divide by two... but then the money factor would be .005, instead of .0025
As an example.. You pay $30K for a car and its residual at the end of lease is $20K.. Assuming that the depreciation goes down in a straight line, then the average money borrowed is $25K for the term of the lease.. Instead of adding the two numbers and dividing by two to come up with that figure, they just cut the multiplier (the MF) in half, saving a calculation on the dealer/customer end. Not that they are using pencil and paper like you are...they are just plugging the numbers into a computer program...
Hope this helps... Just wanted to affirm for you that you are only paying interest on the average of the cap cost and residual, not on the total.
Hey Car Man. I need some help with a 2005 Acura TSX lease. I'm paying 25,000 for the TSX. They are quoting a lease payment of $299 a month pre tax with 2995 down plus aquisition fee, tax, etc. Since I want zero down except fees they are quoting me $375 a month. Does this sound accurate to you? Thanks for the help.
....... As a rule of thumb or a pretty close ballpark, it's $30 for every $1,000 financed in a 36 month lease .. it seems they are in the ballpark or better on this one ..
I need your help. I want to lease the Infinity Q56, Nissan Armada, or Lexus Gx. I have never leased before. I want to get rid of my Lexus RX 300. I am scared out of my mind. I need some direction and help. I read some of the other messages and it is all foreign to me. I know what payment i can afford per month but i have no idea where to start. Dealers are probably offering deals because it is the end of the year..... HELP
Called dealer and the fleet manager seems to be pretty honest with me, he mentioned that there are only a few 05 325Ci on the lot, and the money factor will definately drop pretty soon when they have more inventory in. However, he mentioned that the residual might be lowered as time goes by. Any idea? do you think the residual will drop by 1~2 points in 2 months based on your experience?
Car_Man I have an offer for a 2004 Murano SL AWD MSRP 35010 for 42 months, 12K mi and $500 down for $359+tax(6.75%) etc. Bumped it up to 15k and 600 down for $406 out the door. The extra 100 down lowered the payment from $416. I'm not sure of the selling price and money factor. I'm new to leasing and need some help.
Thanks Car_man. I did not get a direct answer from you about whether there are any pitfalls of going with a lease from a bank (but through the dealer) instead of Honda Financial. I have talked to a few dealers that insist that they only use Honda Financial and yet I have talked to others that say they have access to 90 some banks to find the best lease factor.
Also, in 2 cases, the dealers says they are going through Honda Financial, the MF is the same, but the residual amount they are quoting me is different. How can this be?
Also, if the dealer is quoting me with Honda Financial numbers, should I push them to check other banks also?
... "I have talked to others that say they have access to 90 some banks to find the best lease factor"
Translation: not everyone qualifys for special factory lease and finance rates .. so, any smart dealer will have "at least" 2 or 3 other lenders to fall back on if the manufacturer declines the loan or lease contract ...
A good example would be the 72 month GM/Ford programs they ran last month .. 500,000(?) applications and less than 70,000 were approved - the point, most people "think" they have excellent credit when they have less than average .. thats why most dealers will have a potpourri of banks they can reach out too to get an approval ..
Greetings siemon321. Honda switched its lease factor support from the 2004 Honda Civic to the 2005 model. As a result, if you were to lease an '04 Civic through American Honda Finance Corp. at this time, you would have to use its standard lease program. Its current base standard lease money factor for a 36 month lease is .00250. Its factors do vary depending upon the length of lease you are interested in. Even though Honda is not providing any money factor support on the '04 Civic, it does have $1,000 dealer cash on it. You should use your knowledge of this incentive to negotiate an attractive capitalized cost.
You're welcome, glermin. You are not calculating the interest portion of your vehicle's lease payment correctly. It is arrived at by adding together your vehicle's cap cost and residual value and multiplying the result times the money factor. Here is a quote from the "Calculate Your Own Lease Payment" article that explains how interest is calculated on leased vehicles:
"Finding the interest amount is the second half of the calculation. Interest on a lease is computed in a weird way. You add the negotiated price of the car to the residual value and multiply this by the money factor.
Hi rihoops. You are being very smart by trying to avoid making any sort of down payment on this lease. I always advice consumers against making capitalized cost reductions on leased vehicles. I would be more than happy to tell you approximately how much your payment should be without putting any money down, however in order for me to do so I need you to provide me with this car's full MSRP, how long you want to lease it for, and how many miles per year you need to be able to drive it. Once I have this additional info I should be able to help you out.
Welcome to the wonderful world of leasing, aprils. Since you have never leased before, it is important to understand how it works prior to negotiating with dealers. Knowing how leasing works will prevent you from being taken advantage of. Check out the following articles that are available here at Edmunds.com: 10 Steps to Leasing a New Car and Calculate Your Own Lease Payment. They contain a ton of useful information that will help you in your negotiations. Once you have read them, please let me know if you have any other questions and I will be more than happy to try to answer them for you.
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Thanks. I had seen this info posted previously. Do these rates and residuals apply to the 2.5 S and 2.5 SL?
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Thanks for the feedback. Your comments were for the RL. I was asking about the TL. Any change in your thoughts or same?
Thanks again.
Never leased before, so I would love any help.
Here are the terms they offered: 62% L.E.V., 36 months, MSRP $33,170, Lease Factor .0024, 10,000 Miles a Year, Security Deposit $500, Trade In $3000 (for 95 BMW 318ti), $2284 Down. Monthly Lease (w/Tax) $345.
Does this seem fair?
I'm wondering if they're high on the Lease Factor and low on the price reduction from MSRP.
Also is a $725 Assignement Fee/$249 Processing Fee too high?
I am planning on leasing a Honda Odyssey EX-L. I have called/emailed a number of dealers. Some dealers use Honda Financing numbers for MF and Residual amounts. Other dealers have a data base of many banks to choose from and have given me lower MF and and higher residual amounts.
My question: In leasing from a Honda dealer, is there an advantage in getting a Honda Financing lease instead of a bank lease? Are there pitfalls I should be aware of when going outside Honda Financing. The dealer will be the one handling the transaction and suggesting the bank.
Also, how much negotiation room is there in the MF of Honda Financing? What is the dealer buy rate?
So the money factor is 0.0002 for 2004 and 0.00220 for 2005? not to mention the MSRP of the 05 has gone up for $1200. That's about 10times more on interest?
Actually this is the first time i plan on leasing a car, after reading this forum for over half an hour, i found out that the money factors usually go down during the end of year. Do you think November and December is the best time to lease a car? if not, pls advise when would i get the best deal in a year? I wanted to get rid of my 90 corolla that started to give me troubles recently.
Can you help me find out the money factor and residual for the Mercedes Benz C230K Sport Sedan?
term would be 36, 39, or 42 months 10k/yr
do you remember when's the last time Mercedes Benz offered special lease rate? e.g. below 4.99% (0.0020)
I always think that the Mercedes is more expensive to own than a BMW. Also is Mercedes offering the same thing as putting 1 extra security deposit will bring down the money factor by 0.0001, any limit?
Thank you for your help
$1,500 over invoice is an OK price for the TL, but if you are in an area where there is a decent amount of competition for your business you should be able to do better than that by shopping around. Let's work up a sample lease payment on this car using that price and see what see come up with. According to my calculations, if you were to lease a 2005 Acura TL with navigation (MSRP: $34,900 / cap cost: $31,800 invoice + $1,500 = $33,300) through American Honda Finance Corp. right now for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, your zero down, pre-tax monthly lease payment should be right around $494. As you can see, the payments that you were quoted look to be a little on the high side to me. At lease signing, you should only have to pay this car's first month's payment, a security deposit of that payment rounded up to the nearest $25 increment, and AHFC's acquisition fee of $595. If you were able to negotiate a lower selling price, say $1,000 over invoice, it would drop the payment for an otherwise identical lease to around $488. A selling price of $500 over invoice would drop it to around $464.
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Lease acquisition fees are set by the bank that you are leasing your vehicle through and individual dealers do not have the authority to waive them. American Honda Finance Corp.'s base acquisition fee for leases in your state is currently $595. If you are being charged any more than this, your dealer may be trying to pad this fee to add additional profit to your deal.
The two most important numbers to focus on when negotiating a lease are the vehicle's selling price and its lease money factor. The selling prices of leased vehicles can be negotiated, just as if you were paying cash for them. You definitely need to know what price you are being charged for the vehicle that you want to lease because without this number it is difficult to see what sort of a deal you are getting and tough to calculate a sample lease payment on it. With a brand new vehicle like the 2005 Odyssey, you will probably have a tough time negotiating a significant discount at this time but you need to know the selling price to be able to tell exactly what sort of a deal you have been quoted.
The money factor that is being used to calculate your lease is important as well because many banks give dealers the ability to mark-up their base lease money factors to add additional back-end profit to deals. I doubt that Honda is providing any sort of lease support on the '05 Odyssey at this time. If this is the case and you were to lease one through AHFC, you would have to use its standard lease money factors. Its current base standard money factor for 3 year leases is .00250. Make sure that you are not being charges any more than that.
Well, this post should answer a number of the questions that you have about leasing, but please let me know if you think of any others.
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Most dealers charge some sort of doc fee on deals. This number is not much more than a way for them to pad their profits, but it is acceptable as long as you know this, the fee isn't too high, and the overall price that you were quoted, including the fee is less than or equivalent to what you would have to pay to purchase a similar vehicle at another local dealership. The $249 "Processing Fee" and $725 "Assignement Fee" add up to almost a thousand dollars in dealer fees, which is way too much to pay.
Another problem that I have with this deal is that BMW Financial Services' base lease money factor for this car is currently only .00220. You were quoted a money factor of .00240 without any sort of waiver of BMW FS' security deposit requirement. This means that the dealer that you are working with is probably marking-up BMW FS' base factor to add additional back-end profit to your deal.
You never mentioned this car's selling price in your post, but this is probably the most important number to know when negotiating a lease. The selling prices of leased vehicles are negotiable, just as if you were paying cash for them. Without knowing this number it is difficult to tell how much money you are paying for the car that you want and to calculate a sample lease payment on it. When negotiating this car's selling price, keep in mind that BMW is currently giving its dealers $1,500 dealer cash on the 2004 325i. This money will help you to negotiate an attractive selling price on this car, probably one that is $500 to $1,000 below invoice.
As you can see, I personally have a number of problems with this deal. Let me know if you have any other questions.
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AHFC's base lease standard lease money factor is currently .00250. I doubt that it is providing any sort of lease support on the 2005 Odyssey, so this is probably the factor that you would have to use to lease one through it at this time. This factor is not negotiable in that dealers are not allowed to use a lower factor than the published one. However, it is important to make sure that the dealer that you are working with is not marking-up a vehicle's published money factor to add additional profit to your deal.
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I thought the deal stunk as well.
FYI, the quoted purchase price was 31,170. However, the quote only reflected $1000 in "Cash Cap. Reduction" which I assume is the $1500 BMW incentive.
I don't take that to be too bad of a price if the full $1500 is passed through.
You add in the full $1500, reduce the doc fee by $500 and reduce the money factor to .0022, then am I in the place I need to be?
One question, does the base rate .0022 get reduced if a security deposit is put down? Thanks for all your help.
Terry.
Thanks. I calculated the residual value - 61 + 2 for 12,000 miles, divided by 36 the depreciation, multiplied the entire cap cost (even at MSRP + delivery and prep) and added tax. So how come my numbers are $50 less than all my quotes? 436 vs. 486? (or $17 more a month with acquisition cost added in) No other missing numbers that I know of.
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One dealer faxed me the "motor vehicle worksheet." Included in it is the "monthly lease fee" which adds total capitalized cost AND depreciation then multiplies it by the money factor, .00250. Is this a scam? Isn't this double charging? Boy, this is frustrating.
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I'm looking into leasing a 2004 Honda Civic EX (4 doors, auto, side airbags). I'm waiting for some quotes from local dealers, but in the mean time I was wondering if you knew AHFC's base lease money factor for this car.
Also, does that money factor vary depending on the length of the lease (I'm assuming the answer is no)?
Finally, I believe Honda has a Marketing Suport incentive going for the 2004 Civic EX sedan ($1000?) - can you confirm if this is the case?
Thanks!
Thanks for your response. I have read Calculate your Lease Payment. The only thing that is different than my calculation is that when doing the finance fee, instead of multiplying the money factor rate with the cap cost, he multiplied the rate with the cap cost + the residual amount. Thus it was .00250 x $53,547.80 (33,129.50 [cap plus tax] + 20,418.30 [residual value]) giving $133.87 instead of .00250 x $33,129.50 = 82.82.I just want to know if this is legitimate or just another way to raise the amounts.
1) Cap cost and residual are added together to come up with an "average" amount of principal to base the finance charges on.. What the calculation really does is adds them together, then divides by two.
2) Instead of actually dividing that amount in half, they make the money factor half of what it would normally be.. Just to simplify the calculations.
3) This is why to get an equivalent interest rate, you multiply the money factor by 2400 instead of 1200.
4) So, to make it clearer... they could add them together, then divide by two... but then the money factor would be .005, instead of .0025
As an example.. You pay $30K for a car and its residual at the end of lease is $20K.. Assuming that the depreciation goes down in a straight line, then the average money borrowed is $25K for the term of the lease.. Instead of adding the two numbers and dividing by two to come up with that figure, they just cut the multiplier (the MF) in half, saving a calculation on the dealer/customer end. Not that they are using pencil and paper like you are...they are just plugging the numbers into a computer program...
Hope this helps... Just wanted to affirm for you that you are only paying interest on the average of the cap cost and residual, not on the total.
regards,
kyfdx
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Terry.
I need your help. I want to lease the Infinity Q56, Nissan Armada, or Lexus Gx. I have never leased before. I want to get rid of my Lexus RX 300. I am scared out of my mind. I need some direction and help. I read some of the other messages and it is all foreign to me. I know what payment i can afford per month but i have no idea where to start. Dealers are probably offering deals because it is the end of the year..... HELP
Apri
AprilSocarras@msn.com
I have an offer for a 2004 Murano SL AWD MSRP 35010 for 42 months, 12K mi and $500 down for $359+tax(6.75%) etc. Bumped it up to 15k and 600 down for $406 out the door. The extra 100 down lowered the payment from $416. I'm not sure of the selling price and money factor. I'm new to leasing and need some help.
Also, in 2 cases, the dealers says they are going through Honda Financial, the MF is the same, but the residual amount they are quoting me is different. How can this be?
Also, if the dealer is quoting me with Honda Financial numbers, should I push them to check other banks also?
Thanks again.
Translation: not everyone qualifys for special factory lease and finance rates .. so, any smart dealer will have "at least" 2 or 3 other lenders to fall back on if the manufacturer declines the loan or lease contract ...
A good example would be the 72 month GM/Ford programs they ran last month .. 500,000(?) applications and less than 70,000 were approved - the point, most people "think" they have excellent credit when they have less than average .. thats why most dealers will have a potpourri of banks they can reach out too to get an approval ..
Terry.
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"Finding the interest amount is the second half of the calculation. Interest on a lease is computed in a weird way. You add the negotiated price of the car to the residual value and multiply this by the money factor.
($20,000 + $13,110) X .0037 = $122.50"
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