Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations

ab348 · March 2017

I think over a million Benzes being recalled is pretty major.

abacomike · March 2017

The following is right of the NHTSA website:

investigations, complaints and manufacturer’s communications.
NHTSA Safety Issue ID

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1 result(s) found
NHTSA ID: 17V114
Safety Issue Type
Recalls

February 23, 2017 NHTSA Campaign Number: 17V114000
Starting Current Limiter may Overheat
If the starting current limiter overheats, the surrounding components can melt, increasing the risk of a fire.
NHTSA Campaign Number: 17V114000
Manufacturer Mercedes-Benz USA, LLC.
Components ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING, ELECTRICAL SYSTEM
Potential Number of Units Affected 354,434
Summary
Mercedes-Benz USA, LLC. (MBUSA) is recalling certain 2015-2017 C300 4Matic, C300, CLA250, CLA250 4Matic and CLA45 AMG vehicles, 2017 C300 4Matic Cabrio, C300 4Matic Coupe, C300 Cabrio, C300 Coupe, E300, E300 4Matic, E400 4Matic Wagon, E43 AMG 4Matic, GLA250, GLA250 4Matic and GLC300 4Matic Coupe vehicles and 2016 C350e and GLC300 vehicles and 2016-2017 C450 4Matic AMG Sport and GLC300 4Matic vehicles. In the event that the engine or transmission cannot turn over, the starting current limiter may overheat from the repeated attempts of the starter motor attempting to start the vehicle.
Remedy
MBUSA will notify owners, and dealers will install an additional fuse in the electrical line to the starter, free of charge. Parts to remedy the vehicles are not currently available. Owners will be notified of the recall beginning in late March 2017. Owners will be mailed a follow up notice when remedy parts are available, currently expected to be in July 2017. Owners may contact MBUSA customer service at 1-800-367-6372.
Notes
Owners may also contact the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration Vehicle Safety Hotline at 1-888-327-4236 (TTY 1-800-424-9153), or go to www.safercar.gov.
18 Affected Products
2 Associated Documents
Request Research (Services fees apply)

abacomike · March 2017

Driver, in this case, your C300 may be a possible recall as well as your "on order, not delivered" E400. Big recall. Sounds very similar, but not identical, to the limited Cadillac CTS that graphicguy has been having problems with.

Also, remember the above recall is just for US delivered cars - does not include Canadian delivered or "to be delivered" cars.

stickguy · March 2017

His C class is safe. Too old, and it's a 250.

Probably not much of a risk, since pretty rare these days to see cars needing to crank a long time like that.

abacomike · March 2017

stickguy said:
His C class is safe. Too old, and it's a 250.

Probably not much of a risk, since pretty rare these days to see cars needing to crank a long time like that.

I agree, stickguy - today's cars turn over immediately upon pressing the start button. It a car needs to be turned over more than once, that would alert me to a problem with any car.

abacomike · March 2017

On my way home late this morning, I stopped off at a new car wash place in Boca Raton. For $35.00, tax included, they put the car through their machine wash and wax tunnel while you are in the car. When you come out of the wash tunnel, you drive around to their crew and you give them the car. They apply a spray wax on top of what was applied in the car wash tunnel and hand rub the wax into the finish. They apply a wax to the interior wood trim, clean and then apply a leather conditioner to all the leather, do the windows inside and out and literally detail the car - all in about 25 minutes. They had 3 employees doing all the work at the same time.

Car looks brand new and, if my luck is continuing to hold out, it will probably rain sometime this afternoon or this evening.

stickguy · March 2017

Good deal for all that.

graphicguy · March 2017

abacomike said:
Driver, in this case, your C300 may be a possible recall as well as your "on order, not delivered" E400. Big recall. Sounds very similar, but not identical, to the limited Cadillac CTS that graphicguy has been having problems with.

Also, remember the above recall is just for US delivered cars - does not include Canadian delivered or "to be delivered" cars.

Mike.....Mercedes is making the recall public. Cadillac has been pretty sneaky and is trying to not call my wiring issue a recall, as it doesn't show up in their recall database.

I give Mercedes credit. They put it out there. Cadillac? Not even close. They're trying to keep everything as quiet as possible about the wiring problems.

abacomike · March 2017

stickguy said:
Good deal for all that.

Their regular - exterior only car wash with wax is $19.00 - so for $16.00 more, they do a great detail job along with the waxing. I would only do an exterior wash one every week or so - but I've been averaging a car wash every other week lately. I think it has to do with the fact that the car is pure white and really doesn't show much dirt down here. We've had very little rain these past several months which is another contributing factor to cleaner looking cars.

driver100 · March 2017

In the event that the engine or transmission cannot turn over, the starting current limiter may overheat from the repeated attempts of the starter motor attempting to start the vehicle.

Ooooooooh......got me scared...........how many times has any new car I have owned ever not turned over the first few seconds? NONE

And the C300 is a C250.

And, I bet every car company has just as many recalls.....thank goodness they do recall them before there are too many problems. If I recall (excuse the pun), GGs car was burning up and it wasn't actually recalled....it is sitting in the service bay because of a work order????????????????????? whatever language that is....so they don't have to label it as a recall so they can probably avoid the lemon law.

driver100 · March 2017

A friend of my fathers had a business making shampoo.
He got orders for gallons of shampoo from a car wash place in town.
It was cheaper than using wax and made lots of suds, so people thought it was really good on their cars.
Probably they bought conditioner to put on a nice shiny protective coating.

I take the C250 to an American car wash about 2X amonth for a premium exterior wash...do wheels and get bugs off the front.....$7. I vacuum the inside about once a week, I can do the inside windows once a month too.
It has only rained about 5 days since Oct 30th.....cars stay pretty clean in Florida.

andres3 · March 2017

stickguy said:
One thing I can guarantee is that I will never get a ticket for parking in a handicap spot. Not just because I have morals, but because I am famous for parking in the far end of the parking lot. And will circle around looking for the perfect spot (close is not a consideration, protection from car doors and shopping carts is).

But isn't there almost always "that guy" that has to park right next to you, even though there are 15 empty spaces along your other side, and they almost always drive a beater!

imidazol97 · March 2017

abacomike said:
Car looks brand new and, if my luck is continuing to hold out, it will probably rain sometime this afternoon or this evening.

Abaco, your car IS brand new even without the car wash treatment. LOL

driver100 · March 2017

imidazol97 said:

abacomike said:
Car looks brand new and, if my luck is continuing to hold out, it will probably rain sometime this afternoon or this evening.
Abaco, your car IS brand new even without the car wash treatment. LOL

lol...his car is new is true....and he has had it washed more in the last few weeks he has owned it than I had my 2015 washed in 2 years....

graphicguy · March 2017

Update from BBB....they're trying to find someone who will arbitrate my case on the CTS. Delay, stall, deny, excuse after excuse....what a sad, sad circus Cadillac has become.

andres3 · March 2017

imidazol97 said:

ab348 said:
It would be interesting to see the percentage of M-B, BMW, Audi, Volvo, Honda and Subaru in the CR sample as opposed to the national distribution. I don't think I've ever seen those figures but I'd guess they exceed the overall average.
As I recall I've never seen a report of who has filled out reports on their current vehicles for CU. That seems to be closely held information because it would likely be very damaging to the integrity of their results for vehicles that are not represented adequately in numbers to have meaningful results.

The flaw in CU's convenience sample is that their subscribers do not represent random sampling of owners of all the various brands of vehicles they purport to rate. Then from within that inadequate sample, who responds to the survey out of the inferior sample?

As I recall the survey involves collecting information about household items and all kinds of other things CU evaluates as well as a part asking for information about cars. How many look at the survey and don't fill it out because it's so long. I've occasionally gotten convenience surveys by computer and the surveys got long by asking all kinds of questions often in different manners. I often quit in the middle.

Convenience surveys work well such as pushing them out with register receipts at quick markets offering a free coffee or soda if it's filled out on computer and brought back to the store. The purpose there is mostly to find problems in the store's operation and unhappy customers will be the first to call or fill out a quick survey about bad product, missing product, inferior customer service, etc..

The CU's testing of vehicles also is selectively written. Long ago I quit reading their short reviews at the back of an issue where they compared similar vehicles. Often the same characteristic in a less-liked brand is criticized more harshly than in the favored brand's written review. Parallel reading of two reviews would indicate the difference in the words chosen and the writing style which often placed critical points in compound sentences or in phrases to minimize their impact to the reader.

Perhaps some vehicles deserved and earned the harsher wording and criticism? Ever consider that?

There are different levels of a bad cup holder. There is bad, badder, and baddest at a minimum. Of course, CR's surveys don't weigh a cup holder malfunction equal to engine failure like JDP does.

It's not that I don't have my own criticisms of CR, but they have more to do with their attitudes, style, and priority criteria than it does with conspiracy theories.

CR does not publish reliability data if the sample size is not sufficient. Solves that problem right there. At some point, getting another million surveys won't move the data a significant or meaningful amount.

andres3 · March 2017

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

CR is skewed because they survey people who can afford to subscribe to CR.

Why would M-B, BMW, Audi, Volvo, Honda and Suburu be different than national average.
What would be the conspiracy if they weren't in the same ratio....why would they be different? Is it because buyers of those brands have higher I.Q.s or can read better, or B.S. better?

Not sure where this is going?
No conspiracy, just a few things to consider.

Who buys CR? Not just people who can afford to buy CR. But also within that group, people who are concerned with owning "the best" whatever. That is a very particular group of people and likely not representative of the population as a whole. Would their questionnaire responses want to confirm that they made the "right" decision? Perhaps.

There are likely some other demographic and psychographic differences found in the CR subscriber base from the general population. Are university professors over-represented? Yuppies? Fitness freaks? I have no idea but throw those out as examples. Their views on vehicles may well be unrepresentative of the overall population.

As to ownership stats, we all know of the Subaru cult. People love them despite their shortcomings. Same with Hondas of a generation ago. "They never break down and I don't spend a dime on maintenance!" Was it true? Likely not but I remember seeing that a lot. So when those sort of people fill out the questionnaire are they going to report the same way someone who owns a Jeep or a VW does? I don't know but somehow I doubt it.

I'm not saying the CR survey info is useless but I would suggest it is just one more data point and not the be-all that some would suggest.

Still haven't heard a coherent argument as to why say "Cruze" buyers would want to confirm they made the "right" decision more frequently than say.... "3-Series Buyer." Or insert any two brands in either category above. Is it just dollars? The more you spend, the more favorable your survey? Many luxury brands have scored poorly over the years though! Seems to dispel that theory.

Also, if Subaru and Honda earned "cult" status they likely did so by building a lot of legendarily flawless vehicles. They do really exist. They were not that rare in the '80's and '90's. I would venture to say the flawless vehicle is more common than the lemon.

Let's say CR is over-represented by some targeted demographic group. Let's say Professors. Probably a "liberal" left-ist group, but does that mean they will be dishonest with the survey results? If anything, I think they'd have more integrity then that being professors, but maybe not. They should know that accurate honest surveys result in accurate honest survey results being well-educated. That importance should be a contributing factor to the Professor demographic.

If CR only surveys members from the 50 States, does it stand to reason cars built in those 50 States will have a Pro-Self-Interest Bias since there are workers who livelihood depends on those car-makers staying in business?

suydam · March 2017

Keep in mind that CR never does the auto survey as a stand-alone deal. It's always included with other product surveys, such as air conditioners or cell phone providers. According to their research, that cuts down on responses solely in terms of loving or hating a particular vehicle.
As to why more people say that they would buy one vehicle again of any particular model, the survey asks them what their priorities are in choosing a vehicle (style, reliability, FE, etc).
They have one of the largest consumer data bases ever. Are they perfect? No. They don't seem to realize that people buying pickups often have different criteria than those buying cars. Do they always match up with my feelings about a vehicle! No. Are they a good general guide to help consumers sort through the hundreds of different choices? Absolutely. They're a guide, not a Bible.

driver100 · March 2017

graphicguy said:
Update from BBB....they're trying to find someone who will arbitrate my case on the CTS. Delay, stall, deny, excuse after excuse....what a sad, sad circus Cadillac has become.

They can get in touch with me.

What do they do wait for a complaint and then scramble to find someone willing to arbitrate, or are they looking for a GM exec who would take this on?

abacomike · March 2017

imidazol97 said:

Car looks brand new and, if my luck is continuing to hold out, it will probably rain sometime this afternoon or this evening.
Abaco, your car IS brand new even without the car wash treatment. LOL

The key words here are "looks brand new!" Before the detail and wash, it looked like a year old car!!!

stickguy · March 2017

graphicguy said:
Update from BBB....they're trying to find someone who will arbitrate my case on the CTS. Delay, stall, deny, excuse after excuse....what a sad, sad circus Cadillac has become.

How about a former state judge? I think you know where you can find one close enough by. He even knows something about cars!

Man, I would love to see that hearing.

ab348 · March 2017

graphicguy said:
Update from BBB....they're trying to find someone who will arbitrate my case on the CTS. Delay, stall, deny, excuse after excuse....what a sad, sad circus Cadillac has become.

Seems to me your gripe is with BBB.

oldfarmer50 · March 2017

GM is selling Opal.

I hear that Opal lost 20 BILLION dollars since 1999. Sounds like the should have sold it 18 years ago.

graphicguy · March 2017

ab348 said:

graphicguy said:
Update from BBB....they're trying to find someone who will arbitrate my case on the CTS. Delay, stall, deny, excuse after excuse....what a sad, sad circus Cadillac has become.
Seems to me your gripe is with BBB.

GM is paying.......errrr..... using BBB as their lap dog......errrr......agent!

ab348 · March 2017

It's not just GM.

https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/reports/2013-audit-better-business-bureau-auto-line-including-state-florida-state-ohio/141027bbbautolineaudit.pdf

driver100 · March 2017

Instead of CU or JDP surveys it would be nice to have Lemon Law surveys. How many cars from which manufacturer go through the process. How many times do consumers win compared to manufacturers. What happened to the cars to bring them to ~~kangaroo~~ err, Lemon Law court?

I did catch this:
This issue is becoming increasingly problematic as the numbers of cases filed by
the legal profession increases. Generally, consumers represented by certain law
firms have no direct contact with BBB AUTO LINE and tend to fare worse in the
program than unrepresented consumers

bwia · March 2017

graphicguy said:

Update from BBB....they're trying to find someone who will arbitrate my case on the CTS. Delay, stall, deny, excuse after excuse....what a sad, sad circus Cadillac has become.

GG, you should threaten to sue them for trebble damages. As I posted earlier some 70 - 80% of cusumers give up so they are dragging this along with the hope that you will settle for a pittance or just go away.

At this point though, you will need a good lemon lawyer. Hang in there buddy, soon you'll be receiving the keys to a brand new CTS.

bwia · March 2017

Speaking of Cadillac, their January and February sedan sales were dismal. If it were not for the XT5 and XTS the brand would be in a pickle.

stickguy · March 2017

all sedan sales (other than some of the compacts) are tanking it seems. All SUVs all the time.

and if he does get handed the keys to a brand new CTS, and actually takes it, expect to see it listed at the local carmax within 1 day, with less than 100 miles on it!

graphicguy · March 2017

stickguy said:
all sedan sales (other than some of the compacts) are tanking it seems. All SUVs all the time.

and if he does get handed the keys to a brand new CTS, and actually takes it, expect to see it listed at the local carmax within 1 day, with less than 100 miles on it!

Less than that!

graphicguy · March 2017

bwia said:
Speaking of Cadillac, their January and February sedan sales were dismal. If it were not for the XT5 and XTS the brand would be in a pickle.

The number I saw was -8%. Cadillac is tanking!

abacomike · March 2017

Just watched the new Jason Bourne movie with Matt Damon. Quite a good flick with tons of people getting killed and at least two dozen car crashes. I'm betting on one more Jason Bourne movie - he's still alive in the end but the CIA keeps losing upper management personnel.

abacomike · March 2017

Just an update - it's raining now, as expected - no rain for months and the day I wash and detail my car it pours. But I knew it would happen!

iluvmysephia1 · March 2017

Ahhh, abacomike, isn't that the way things go? I must say, Kansas City here doesn't seem ta get much rain, either. And our 2011 Kia Soul is white and stays...white, whether I wash it weekly or not.

Kalamata - Chevy's name for the metallic purple on their 2017 Spark I'm looking at, now, pray tell, I wonder how that will look after not washing it for two weeks? Probably pretty good!

abacomike · March 2017

iluvmysephia1 said:

Ahhh, abacomike, isn't that the way things go? I must say, Kansas City here doesn't seem ta get much rain, either. And our 2011 Kia Soul is white and stays...white, whether I wash it weekly or not.

Kalamata - Chevy's name for the metallic purple on their 2017 Spark I'm looking at, now, pray tell, I wonder how that will look after not washing it for two weeks? Probably pretty good!

LILAC!!!

carnaught · March 2017

abacomike said:
Just an update - it's raining now, as expected - no rain for months and the day I wash and detail my car it pours. But I knew it would happen!

This echos my luck as well. Sometimes after the wash and detail, there is no rain, but instead, I get behind a water spraying truck or street cleaner, the only one within 30 miles, and I wish it had just rained.

bwia · March 2017

What a sad end

Two 97-year old twin sisters from Rhode Island froze to death. Apparently, the sisters had arrived home from a nice dinner. But one sister fell as she was getting out of the car. So, in an attempt to get into the house to summon help the other sister fell in the garage.

Not being able to help themselves, one froze in the driveway and the other in the garage. It is believed that the temperature was about 16 degrees with a wind chill factor of 2 degrees. What is not clear was whether the sisters were driving themselves, but based on situation it would appear they were. Which begs the question why would 97 year olds be driving at night?

stickguy · March 2017

They apparently still lived alone. Typical stubborn new englanders I guess.

abacomike · March 2017

carnaught said:

Just an update - it's raining now, as expected - no rain for months and the day I wash and detail my car it pours. But I knew it would happen!
This echos my luck as well. Sometimes after the wash and detail, there is no rain, but instead, I get behind a water spraying truck or street cleaner, the only one within 30 miles, and I wish it had just rained.

Been raining all day. I must have been a very, very bad boy!!!

jmonroe · March 2017

iluvmysephia1 said:
Ahhh, abacomike, isn't that the way things go? I must say, Kansas City here doesn't seem ta get much rain, either. And our 2011 Kia Soul is white and stays...white, whether I wash it weekly or not.

Kalamata - Chevy's name for the metallic purple on their 2017 Spark I'm looking at, now, pray tell, I wonder how that will look after not washing it for two weeks? Probably pretty good!

Hate to bust your bubble but I don't agree.

Dark/darker colors never look good when dirty. :@

I can prove it to you by parking my charcoal gray Genny next to it after I wax it.

The weather is on the warm side around here today. Supposed to get to 61 F but it is drizzling so no wax job just yet for our cars. Pretty soon though...can't wait.

jmonroe

abacomike · March 2017

Just got an invitation to pick up a free bottle (750ml) of Woodford Reserve Bourbon at the casino as a gift. Is it worth going over there for that brand of bourbon? Anyone familiar with it? Thanks!

jmonroe · March 2017

abacomike said:
Just got an invitation to pick up a free bottle (750ml) of Woodford Reserve Bourbon at the casino as a gift. Is it worth going over there for that brand of bourbon? Anyone familiar with it? Thanks!

Go for it. I would make the drive.

I think we have a poster in here that liked that stuff at one time. He'll tell you or snatch it up before you get there.

jmonroe

ab348 · March 2017

Yeah, it's nice stuff, Mike. No idea what it goes for in Florida but it's pushing $50 up here. Probably half that at an ABC there.

abacomike · March 2017

ab348 said:

Yeah, it's nice stuff, Mike. No idea what it goes for in Florida but it's pushing $50 up here. Probably half that at an ABC there.

Looked it up - between $40 and $60 a bottle. I guess I'll trek over there this weekend. Just because it's expensive doesn't make it good. But if you guys say it's worth it, I'll pick up a bottle over there. Thanks guys for you input.

driver100 · March 2017

abacomike said:

ab348 said:

Yeah, it's nice stuff, Mike. No idea what it goes for in Florida but it's pushing $50 up here. Probably half that at an ABC there.

Looked it up - between $40 and $60 a bottle. I guess I'll trek over there this weekend. Just because it's expensive doesn't make it good. But if you guys say it's worth it, I'll pick up a bottle over there. Thanks guys for you input

.

Driver Method of Cost Averaging (or Rationalizing) says go for it, it will help relieve some of the cost of the fancy $35 car wash.

abacomike · March 2017

driver100 said:

ab348 said:

Yeah, it's nice stuff, Mike. No idea what it goes for in Florida but it's pushing $50 up here. Probably half that at an ABC there.

Looked it up - between $40 and $60 a bottle. I guess I'll trek over there this weekend. Just because it's expensive doesn't make it good. But if you guys say it's worth it, I'll pick up a bottle over there. Thanks guys for you input
.
Driver Method of Cost Averaging (or Rationalizing) says go for it, it will help relieve some of the cost of the fancy $35 car wash.

And how does it relieve the cost of the fancy car wash (detail) driver? I don't foresee any money floating into my pocket!

jmonroe · March 2017

abacomike said:

driver100 said:

abacomike said:

ab348 said:

Yeah, it's nice stuff, Mike. No idea what it goes for in Florida but it's pushing $50 up here. Probably half that at an ABC there.

Looked it up - between $40 and $60 a bottle. I guess I'll trek over there this weekend. Just because it's expensive doesn't make it good. But if you guys say it's worth it, I'll pick up a bottle over there. Thanks guys for you input
.
Driver Method of Cost Averaging (or Rationalizing) says go for it, it will help relieve some of the cost of the fancy $35 car wash.

And how does it relieve the cost of the fancy car wash (detail) driver? I don't foresee any money floating into my pocket!

Not sure what @driver100 had in mind but after future car washes I would go home and celebrate for a few hours.

jmonroe

qbrozen · March 2017

abacomike said:

Looked it up - between $40 and $60 a bottle. I guess I'll trek over there this weekend. Just because it's expensive doesn't make it good. But if you guys say it's worth it, I'll pick up a bottle over there. Thanks guys for you input.

Is $50 expensive? I'm not a bourbon guy, but I'd think they could go quite a bit higher.

suydam · March 2017

With your liver maybe don't tempt yourself!

28firefighter · March 2017

I would tend to agree with @suydam, @abacomike.

That said, if you can't live a little, what's the point?

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