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Synthetic motor oil

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  • bblahabblaha Member Posts: 329
    And you might want to rethink what you change when. Going 12000 between filter changes is probably not a good idea. You'd be better off changing the filter every 6k and the oil every 12k.
  • jbadamsjbadams Member Posts: 63
    Since I last changed my Mobil 1 oil 4000 miles ago in my 2k Maxima, I sure notice when I check the oil that the oil is very dark. Do others notice this? Is this normal? Mobil 1 is darker oil going in than most, but at 4000 miles, it is black!
  • kdominczakkdominczak Member Posts: 174
    bblaha,vernlew,yurakm,ezaircon4jc, thanks for a quick and extensive answers.
    I will change like you're all suggesting, M1 oil every 12K miles and filter (some decent one,don't know what brand yet)every 6K miles.
    Thanks again.
  • jed1894jed1894 Member Posts: 337
    How long have you been using Syn. oil? If you switched from conv. oil, how many miles were on your vehicle before the switch? How many oil changes have you done using Syn. oil?

    JOhn
  • vadpvadp Member Posts: 1,025
    kdominczak,
    I stopped by K-mart on Saturday to check for availability of the Mobil 1 filter. I haven't seen your post at the moment where you were asking for the number.
    Yes, K-mart carries our filter. I took a very close look at how it was made. And frankly speaking, I wasn't impressed. Quality of the housing in my opinion is not as good as of the Motorcraft filter. Also it differs in construction of its internal components. So I decided to go with the FL-2005 at the moment. The AC Delco Ultraguard at the same time looks very impressive. But it's not available for our car.
    I'll stop by K-mart to get the Mobil 1 part # if you're still interested.
    BTW I don't know if the concerns in regards of diminishing capacity of the filter just after 6K
    on a relatively clean engine are warranted in any way. In my opinion a modern engine doesn't generate enough of gunk to clog a quality filter for at least 10K miles. But again, it's just my opinion.
    yura,
    I've noticed that different people have different needs. Thank you for pointing this out for me.image
  • kdominczakkdominczak Member Posts: 174
    vadp,That's very interesting, M1 high performance oil filter could be worse in quality than our Motorcraft FL-2005?
    You are not the first one saying good things about Motorcraft filter.I remember that someone (on one of those Focus forums) have said the same think about our Motorcraft filter.
    Since I'm not an expert I'll have to trust you guys on that one.
    Also when it comes to oil/filter change, I'm trying to find some good and easy system.
    I will be driving a lot of "stop and go" with a/c on with many cold starts in between. How about this: M1 synthetic oil and Motorcraft Fl-2005 oil filter every 8k miles? (both changed at the same time)
  • vadpvadp Member Posts: 1,025
    Without testing I can't say which filter is the best.
    According to this link the Mobil one is a filter of very good quality.
    All I'm saying that it didn't have a high quality
    "feel" to it.
    Here is what they say in regards of the Motorcraft filter.
    "This is an interesting filter. Basically, it is a Purolator Pure One filter cartridge in a Purolator Premium Plus case. Don’t be fooled by the differently-shaped holes cut into the oil inlet. This is the only difference. This is a good filter design and if you want to get a Purolator Pure One filter, get this one instead: it is cheaper.
    Like the Purolator Pure One, this filter cartridge features a very large element surface area (400 sqin),but with many pleats (64). This packs the filter together rather tightly and may restrict flow somewhat. I could identify the Pure One element media by a purple dye they use at the seam. It also has the mysterious assembly
    string wrapped around the outside of the element. Like the Purolators, it features a spring-loaded metal bypass valve and a nitrile rubber diaphram-type anti-drainback valve. The bypass valve is stamped right into the bottom end cap of the cartridge, so it is all one piece."
    I don't know any other site of this type.
    Unfortunately, it's not been updated since 5/25/99

    http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/oil_filter_study/
  • vadpvadp Member Posts: 1,025
    Oil analysis can give you pretty good idea when to
    change oil and filter for your particular driving habits and engine.
    I've never used this method before.
    But according to what I hear, there is no a better way to obtain a necessary information to make that decision. The tests are easy to use and will run you $20-39 depending on the test.
  • kdominczakkdominczak Member Posts: 174
    How and where can I conduct that kind of a test?
    Thanks for a interesting link.
  • snipesnipe Member Posts: 5
    The Navy as well as the other services have used oil analysis as a maintenance management tool and to extend oil drain intervals for decades... Oil analysis trend lining tells you well in advanced of forth coming problems before they become premature equipment failures. BTW one more secret about extended oil drain intervals... In the public military Joint Services Pollution Prevention Opportunity Handbook Substituting Synthetic oil for Conventional Oil Generated From Section 6: Petroleum oils, and Lubricants it states and I quote "Synthetic oil lasts two to five times longer than conventional oil thus waste oil generation can be reduced two to five times if synthetic oil is used." European automakers in 1997 started recommending 18,000 + miles between oil change intervals... and that was after a decade of 9,000-miles between oil change intervals... Volovo of North America recommends one synthetic motor oil formulated for 25,000-miles or one-year drain intervals... SECRETS, SECRETS and SECRETS want a substantial increase in fuel economy???
  • snipesnipe Member Posts: 5
    TRIBOLOGY - The science and secrets of lubrication, friction and wear since 1966. "Jost defined TRIBOLOGY as, "the science and technology of interacting surfaces in relative motion, and the practices related thereto." Did You Know... rigid conventional petroleum lubricant motor oil molecules move heat along hot surfaces? The surface of the oil film gets overburdened with heat while the core of the oil stream gets a free ride. It's called LAMINAR FLOW, it is not an efficient system, and it keeps engine surfaces HOTTER... YET, SYNTHETIC motor oils are better heat transfer agents than conventional petroleum lubricants are, so the engines heat bill adds up to less. FLEXIBLE SYNTHETIC lubricant molecules allow heat to swirl away from the hot surfaces and into the core of the oil stream... It's called TURBULENT FLOW.
  • snipesnipe Member Posts: 5
    The Military Has Used Advanced SYNTHETIC Lubrication Technology for Decades... WHY does every Jet Fighter Engine in The World use Synthetic Lubricants Exclusively? Because of 3 extraordinary High-Performance characteristics with an ability to: 1} REDUCE Friction and Wear on Mechanical Components. 2} FUNCTION DEPENDABLY at Severe Temperature Extremes. 3} WITHSTAND RIGOROUS and LENGTHY "EXTENDED DRAIN" Operation Without Chemical Breakdown... SYNTHETIC Lubricants have gone from EXOTIC to MAINSTREAM Because SYNTHETIC Lubricant BENEFITS are NOW a necessity, NOT a luxury.
  • snipesnipe Member Posts: 5
    FILTRATION FACTS... The Importance Of High Quality (Oil and Air) Filtration... The Real SECRET To EXTENDING Engine and Oil Life... Dirt is your worst enemy in extending engine and oil life cycles... Do you really know how hard your engine oil filter works? Full-flow oil filters reduce the rate of engine wear by reducing the number of wear-causing particles circulating with the engine oil... As the engine oil circulates around the valves, cylinder walls, pistons, camshafts, connecting rod bearings and crankshaft bearings, the filter picks up metal wear particles and dirt, which enters with intake air... Motor oil dispersants keep contaminants suspended in the oil. The filter removes suspended contaminants depending upon their size... What happens when an oil filter is left on to long? An oil filter’s capacity to hold contaminants is limited... Once the filter has reached capacity, it allows dirty oil to circulate... Particulates in the in the dirty oil impair the seal between the piston rings and the cylinder walls... The impaired seal allows combustion gases to blow by the rings, entering the crankcase and pressurize it... Crankcase pressure pushes air into the oil and lifts aerated oil through the positive crankcase ventilation system into the combustion chamber were it is burned... This is also a cause of higher exhaust stream emissions... As the process continues, the volume of oil in the crankcase drops... This is what is known as oil consumption... Oil consumption is the first sign of an overextended filter change interval... But oil consumption, and the sky-high hydrocarbon exhaust emissions that go with it, aren’t all that happens when filters aren’t changed often enough... Engine wear happens, too... Wear-promoting particles circulate freely after the oil filter reaches capacity... Larger particles circulate freely, too, until they lodge in engine crevices where oil pressure often breaks them into smaller pieces... Then those pieces circulate freely and promote engine wear... Did YOU Know In The Typical Passenger Vehicle Engine Oil passes through the engine four times for every mile driven... For every 12,500 miles, oil passes through the engine 50,000 times... As you just read, it’s not as though wear-causing contaminants pass through vulnerable engine clearances just once... And engine clearances are even closer than just five years ago. That’s no way to treat an engine... Also Please Note: A vehicles regular oil filter is a full-flow filter... This means that all the oil pumped by the engine must pass quickly through the filter before it reaches the engine... This high flow demand limits the size of particles conventional filters can effectively remove without causing oil starvation... Particles are measured in units called microns... A good full-flow filter will effectively remove particles down to about 25 microns... But studies have shown that over 60 percent of all engine wear is caused by particles in the 5 to 20 micron range... For the ultimate in engine/oil filtration and protection use By-Pass Oil Filtration Technology (been around since the late 70's) that removes particles down to less than one micron, keeping the oil free of virtually all wear-causing particles... Proven cost effective and reliable... Backed with oil analysis in millions of over the road miles... By-Pass Engine/Oil Filtration Technology, Maximum engine/oil filtration and protection technology has been providing Environmentally Responsible 100,000-Miles and BEYOND EXTENDED Oil Drain Interval Technology... Conserving Valuable Resources and Preserving Environmental Integrity since 1980 by tens of thousands of military and civilian consumers...
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    Okay, so your an Amsoil dealer pushing the by pass filter. I know it works as does the oil, I use the oil, no room for a bypass, but let's not do an overkill here. Way too much verbage in the filtration arena. Too bad manufacturers don't include a bypass filter as original equip?
  • vadpvadp Member Posts: 1,025
    kdominczak,
    there are many kinds of the mail-in oil analysis kits.
    You can buy them on-line or at your local auto parts store like Autozone.
    As I said I'm just starting to look at the posibility of using one of those tests and don't have enough of information to recommend any of them.

    www.syntheticsolutions.net
    http://www.globaltechnovations.com/products_kit.html

    Also take a look at this message board.
    You can find some intresting opinions regarding the synthetic motor oils.

    http://www.noria.com/boards/lab.cfm
  • vadpvadp Member Posts: 1,025
    The Mobil 1 filter for the Focus is M1-209.
  • jbadamsjbadams Member Posts: 63
    I have been using syn oil for over a year.
    I switched to Mobil 1 on my 2K Max at 1000 miles. I change oil and filter. Then again at 5000 miles. I now have 8800 miles, and have always noticed that Mobil one gets dark quick. I suppose it is doing it's job and suspending the soot particles.
  • jed1894jed1894 Member Posts: 337
    I don't think what I was thinking applies in your case. I was thinking that if you vehicle had 20-30k miles and then you switched, the Syn. oil would clean the old stuff out thereby causing the oil to darken quickly.

    My Syn. oil also changes to a slightly darker color soon after the change, but levels off for the duration.

    I don't have an answer for you.....sorry.

    John
  • jed1894jed1894 Member Posts: 337
    What Syn. oil would you recommend?

    JOhn
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    I use synthetic in my five cars and it does not begin to change color until the 5,000 mile mark or so but even at 12,000 miles is still clear enough to see through. Asmoil 10W30.
  • kdominczakkdominczak Member Posts: 174
    thanks for the number of the M1 oil filter , and links as well.
  • jbadamsjbadams Member Posts: 63
    Mobil one is darker to begin with than most other oils. That could be part of why it looks darker sooner.
  • joe3891joe3891 Member Posts: 759
    I agree synthetic oil is great for jet engines,i will be using it in the next jet i buy.To use it in an automobile is a marketing ploy to get people to spend more money an also its over kill.
    In my area Walmart sells Havoline oil for .72 a quart,an engine will go 200K using it, what more do you need.
  • bblahabblaha Member Posts: 329
    The ability to change less often. Summer months are a great time to be under my vehicle. January oil changes aren't much fun...
  • ezaircon4jcezaircon4jc Member Posts: 793
    At $25 - $40 for an analysis, I might as well pay the $20 for the oil change AND filter. Syn. at Wal-Mart, $16 for 5 qts. (mine takes 6, bummer), and about $3 for the Motorcraft filter.
  • agt_cooperagt_cooper Member Posts: 202
    I have to agree, even though I'm using Mobil 1 in my current car. Before I switched to synthetic, I would start to hear the engine get a little louder, a little less-smooth between 3-4k miles. After switching to Mobil 1, the exact same thing. So I don't believe extending the interval would be a good idea in my case.

    I've also seen people mention improved fuel economy....sorry, no dice on that one either. Exactly the same, dino or syn.

    So, why am I still using Mobil 1? Hell if I know!! Just decided to continue my experiment. I change oil and filter every 4k, rain or shine, hot or cold.
  • markbuckmarkbuck Member Posts: 1,021
    You are exactly right. For most applications, synth probably has little advantage in auto's under standard conditions.
  • vadpvadp Member Posts: 1,025
    I wonder if the owners of the 4-cylinder Camrys would agree with you.
    BTW that particular model used to have (still?)a big sludge build-up problem in the regularly serviced engines.
    I heard that switching to synthetics made a huge difference.
  • edwardh1edwardh1 Member Posts: 88
    I guess I must be blind, I can not find sludge in mine at 80k.
  • vadpvadp Member Posts: 1,025
    Did you look under the valve cover?
  • wayn1wayn1 Member Posts: 69
    Did you remove the oil pan?
  • kdominczakkdominczak Member Posts: 174
    Did you check it?
  • gladicheckedgladichecked Member Posts: 93
    a reallyity check. ;^)
  • vadpvadp Member Posts: 1,025
    For $10 this site will send you the results of eight critical lab tests for oil of your choice.

    http://www.engineoilinfo.com/index.sht
  • vadpvadp Member Posts: 1,025
    Did I EVER ask anybody to switch to synthetics???
    LOL
    If our discussion is no more than "junk-science
    and anecdotes" why do you even bother posting on
    this board?
  • agt_cooperagt_cooper Member Posts: 202
    Well, someone has to be the voice of reason....
  • vadpvadp Member Posts: 1,025
    Reason? Hmm... agt cooper's reason?
    We're all here trying to find out what kind and brand of oil would be best suited for our engines.
    We share information and ideas. Please present yours in more informative way.
    Thank you.
  • yurakmyurakm Member Posts: 1,345
    The Edmunds board, as well as most other discussion boards, is not appropriate place to look for reports of scientific researches. This is not a university, nor a scientific journal.

    But, every day and every hour we have to make our decisions, based on random bits of not-bulletproof information. At best an anecdote, a random case story, even more often just common-sense opinions, rumors and/or gut feelings: what your friend, colleague or relative told you, what a mechanic suggested, etc.

    Why do we use such a not-scientific data? Because this is better than nothing.

    As to Edmunds board, it let us easier ask for and receiving such opinions, and let also argue, if we see something wrong. Still not science, but very useful - much better than just reading advertisement, or ask for opinion of a neighbor...
  • agt_cooperagt_cooper Member Posts: 202
    I would submit that, contrary to your assertion, basing decisions on the opinions in this topic, would be worse than having no information at all.

    I understand this is not a university or a research lab, however, there are some here who would advance their theories as if they were gospel, to the detriment of those who don't know any better. For example, making recommendations to extend the oil change intervals to exceed a manufacturer's recommendation is irresponsible. To those who've suggested that, will you pay for repairs on vehicles who's warranties have been voided due to a lack of proper maintenance?

    And, if, as vadp states, the goal is to figure out which oil to put in your car, there is a little book that comes with every car sold in this country that has that answer....it's the owner's manual. Take a look at it, it tells all you need to know about lubrication requirements.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    #558
    No, you don't have it straight!!
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    #564
    My owners manual gives a specifcation and it translates to Mobil One 5-30W or 10-30W and further says that to NOT use it would jeapordize the warranty! Incidently, the oil change interval can go as high as 15,000 miles.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    If those conditions are true as I have described... What would you do?
  • vadpvadp Member Posts: 1,025
    It tells all YOU need to know.
    Sorry to disappoint, but our needs are quite different.
  • copytechcopytech Member Posts: 71
    Between synthetics and dino I use dino. I can't see spending $4 a quart on oil for a car (unless the car costs as much as a house). I can't figure out why people put it in a 10 year old car with 100,000 miles on it. Regular oil is fine. Just keep up with the changes. Cars have to be judged a little differently and situations. Between my cars, my work car, a 94 geo metroid, with a 1.0 3 cyl works as hard as hell. I change it once a month (I put about 3k a month) with chev or mobil (whichever I can get for about 80c per quart) and a stp filter. about 6.00. That engine works hard, but runs great. Has 123,000 miles with absolutely no problems, and I drive the hell out of the car. Dropped the oil pan at around 100k, the pan was fine. the whole bottom end of the engine was fine. Inspect cam from time to time, no oil residue. My camry v-6 engine hardly works at all so I use my judgement. Usually 5k or so for changes. It looks fine when I change it anyway, but the moisture need to get out of the engine, or I'd prohably let it go even longer. I think that situations vary. For me, no way will I use synthetic. I've seen no reason to, even with a possible increase in gas mileage due to a more slippery base. But I think that my geo is evidence enough to me to see that regular oil works fine. Plus, it's a piece or crap, so why put in 20.00 in oil and a 10.00 filter in a piece of crap? Actually, if I had a car woth a turbo, I might use syn. in it because of how turbos operate, and synthetic does have more detergents, but for most cars, I see no benefits. Teardown tests is the past I've read about did not show significant enough differences to justify the cost difference, I didn't say no differences, just not significant enough. If people are worried about dirty engines, they need to run tranny fluid it from time to time to ungum valves and rings. Cheap and easy to do, and it would keep the engine clean. Damn, the amount of money we spend on oil is crazy. I wish that I was an heir to an oil company and reading these posts. Probably be laughing my butt off while my accountant tells me how many thousands I've made today from maintenance-freaks worried about their "wearing" engines, that wear no matter what oil is in there.
  • agt_cooperagt_cooper Member Posts: 202
    what manufacturer is requiring Mobil 1? And exactly what requirements must the oil meet, according to the manual. I'm assuming some SAE certification....please enlighten me.
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    Corvettes, Porches, BMW are some of the cars coming out of the factory with Mobil 1. I don't know what car ruking is running but I imagine it says Mobil 1 or a comparable synthetic. Corvette altered the engine design and requires a synthetic for either the high heat capability or the opposite, I cannot remember what the reason was but a dino could not handle the engine design change. I know that there was a problem with Corvettes in WI, MN or MI in cold weather starts.
  • agt_cooperagt_cooper Member Posts: 202
    Well, I'd like to hear from someone who can provide the exact wording of the oil requirements in any of these vehicles.

    I understand that some vehicles are coming from the factory with Mobil 1, but I attribute that more to Mobil's marketing efforts than anything else.

    Let's see, a Mobil marketing guy goes to Chevrolet and says, "We'll give you free oil for every Corvette, if you'll let us say in our ads that Chevrolet chose Mobil 1 for their ultimate performance vehicle."

    The Chevy guy says, "Hey, we can save $3 per vehicle, get a little more exposure for our product, get myself a promotion for being so smart...what's not to like, where do I sign?"

    Both companies are happy, and the gullible consumer says, "Well, if Chevy is using Mobil 1 in the Corvette, that stuff must be great! Let me get some for the Family Truckster."

    Seems logical to me!
  • steve234steve234 Member Posts: 460
    I have a 91 F150 with 165K on it, Havoline 5W30 every 300 miles. My new Dakota is going to be using Vavoline 5W30 Synthetic starting the next oil change. My reasoning is that it costs me $15-18 per oil change, but I will not go any more than 3000 miles on regular oil. It is too ingrained in me. I switch to synthetic, the oil changes will cost $27-30 and I will feel comfortable going 7500 miles. This is the cost benefit for me. If I get better mileage, great. I will not go more than 7500 miles because that is the maximum by the manual.
  • armtdmarmtdm Member Posts: 2,057
    I have to disagree that it is all marketing. Unfortunatley most of the car buying public is like you and does not wish to pay a penny more for quality unless they can see it on paper etc etc. So, the manufaturers I doubt would require a synthetic unless there was a need because they know it may impact the sale of that car. Although if you can afford a corvette you can afford the synthetics.. Most people still look for any excuse to use 87 octance when the manual calls for 92 octane. They see no immediate difference and pocket the extra buck at fill up. I guess that this is oil company hype pushing the higher octane. I know people that will not buy a car because it requires the premium gas. The engines requiring the synthetics are doing so for a reason. Sure the dino would work, but I would not push that Vette much at the starting block!
  • agt_cooperagt_cooper Member Posts: 202
    established that any manufacturer requires synthetic in their engines.

    There is a huge difference between a factory fill with a "recommendation" and an actual requirement that synthetic be used to protect the warranty.
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