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Now, the manufacturer can apply for waiver from this provision via the Federal Trade Commission, so you may want to see if that has been done. That would allow them to require a particular brand of oil without having to give it away. Don't think this is the case here, however.
So, since most car manufacturers don't want to get into the business of handing out free oil, they make requirements based on API (American Petroleum Institute) classifications.
http://www.api.org/programs_services/quality/oilchart.htm
The current classification is SJ for gasoline powered passenger vehicles. Virtually all dino and synthetic motor oils marketed today satisfy that standard.
So, how exactly can a manufacturer require a synthetic oil?
By specifying 0W-30 viscosity oil. :-)
I think any argument over whether synthetic IS required is pointless. As armtdm pointed out, if you change every 3k miles, it doesn't really make a difference which you use. If you want to go longer, you need an oil that will last longer. 3k miles doesn't get me through the winter.
And since gas is an order of magnitude more expensive than oil/filter changes, the extra cost per change is insignificant.
Expensive dino!
As I clearly stated Your Mileage May Vary (YMMV)
TB
are probably not Mobil 1 and are probably more petroleum based like Castrol Syntec but I wonder which specific mfg makes each of these store brands. Does any one know who makes these ?
1.Advance Auto Parts
2.Pep Boys
3. Walmart
My comfort level is with 6,000 mi oil&filter changes and I'd like to save a little $ but still want have the added protection of synthetic
Now it works.
Can you name a 0w-30 dino oil?
The only debatable one is Castrol SLX, which some will argue isn't synthetic; therefore its a 0w-30 "dino" oil. From the context of "cheap dino oil" vs "expensive synthetic oil", SLX is synthetic. Whatever it is, the refining process Castrol uses removes much of the wax permiting it to flow at lower temperatures.
But, as bblaha points out it is academic, and for more than just the reason he sets out...
Say a manufacturer said, "Hey, let's require synthetic in our cars...we'll state that the owner must use an oil that meets API service classification SJ and is an SAE 0W30 oil, and the only way they can do that is to use synthetic."
If it is true that 0W30 is only available as a synthetic right now, the owner will have no choice. But, let's say a year from now, a new dino oil comes out, meeting API SJ and in 0W30 form...now, a synthetic is no longer required.
Next, let's say the manufacturer adds the synthetic caveat to the oil requirement. It wouldn't take much of a lawyer to defeat that, because there is no standardized method to show that synthetic is necessarily better than dino. (Of course, the car maker could always come to Edmunds for lots of testimonials from RedLine salesmen and Mobil 1 devotees....)
And changing gears a little....
One curious note, on the API web page, I've been unable to locate any mention of Red Line. Who makes that stuff? From what I can see, they are not certified by API for the SJ specification.
Anyone have information to the contrary? All Red Line's website says is that their engine oil "Satisfies warranty requirements of API SH/SG/SF/CE/CD/CC". (Notice -- SJ is not listed, which would be a problem for 1997 and newer cars' warranties.)
Does Red Line carry any API certifications on its packaging?
Never heard of, at least on this board.
The Amsoil dealers, on the other hand, are hanging on at virtually every automotive message board.
Regarding the RedLine packaging.
"Recommended for: API CH-4/CG-4/CF/SJ/SH"...
..."Not for break-in engines - allow 3000 miles"
Nowhere is Red Line mentioned (I did find Amsoil). Is this a case where the cost of certification and licensing is too great for a small company? Or are they trying to hide something? Hmmmm.....
One thing seems clear, though, using a non-API certified oil may be hazardous to your warranty!
A standard can't specify that synthetics must be used, but the standard can be difficult enough that only a synthetic is able to meet it which is effectively the same thing.
http://www.mobil1.com/mobil1_racing/about/where/factoryfill/index.html
Anyone have a Corvette owner's manual handy?
My focus is on what oil will satisfy the warranty requirements from manufacturers, and also what oil change intervals will satisfy those same requirements.
My assertion is that there is not a single car out there, whether factory filled or not, that has:
a) a requirement for synthetic
b) an allowable extended change cycle if you use synthetic
c) an oil requirement that absolutely excludes dino oil
Can anyone prove me wrong?
"Thanks for your interest in Petro-Canada products.
The Petro-Canada Arctic 0W-30 is a synthetic blend oil made with Petro-Canada's hydro-cracked base oil and additives, delivering a synthetic
performance and resistance to thermal breakdown. Thus, it is not a 100% synthetic motor oil."
Ya gotta like this guy. He and others like him are why the oil companies consistently perform well yr in yr out.!! I mean why change your oil at 15000 miles when 3000 will do.!!??
As I know the RedLine product is not certified.
Well, in theory there are any number of outs. And for discussion purposes the most direct answer is no, they don't have to. HOWEVER, If you are doing business with one particular dealer that in the worst case will fulfill on your warranty I would go down in person and ask the service manager. Or the most likely places you would take your vehicle to for warranty work. Most places that know you will work with you, for repeat business is the life's blood. If you are convinced of the synthetic's usefulness and dont want to find out, the "off the shelf" answer is to stick with an API synthetic and intervals and there will be absolutely no gray area. (But life is mostly gray)
>A required oil for all model 1999 and later BMW vehicles except the M cars
All new BMW engines, except M car and E36 model engines, come from the factory filled with BMW High Performance Synthetic Engine Oil. The reason is that those engines are designed to provide longer oil service intervals while still delivering optimum performance, fuel efficiency, and durability. BMW High Performance Synthetic Engine Oil is formulated to meet those requirements.
BMW High Performance Synthetic Engine Oil is available through BMW centers nationwide. Should you need to add oil and BMW High Performance Synthetic Engine Oil is unavailable, you may top up with small amounts of synthetic oil meeting the requirements of API Service SH or higher, such as Mobil 1 or Valvoline SynPower 5W-40.<
Not that they are not requiring synthetic, but it sure sounds like they'd be awfully close to having to give the oil away, if they are requiring BMW's own synthetic (which, by the way, doesn't appear to carry an API certification...)
MB E-320 goes 15k between oil and filter changes also.
Also, I live in Texas where 10w-30 fits the recommended weight but would like to use 5w-30 as I was told it would give me slightly better milage and I would not have to worry about the heat due to the fact that this is a good synthetic. Any suggestions or comments are welcome.
Larry
No problem! After 1000k miles works also. The 5-30 w will usually give a bit more gas mileage but I am guessing that in Texas where it doesnt get below freezing much?? that the 10-30W will be good during at least 3 seasons. Actually the 10-30W will work during winter but will present a bit more resistance to flow during cold weather.
so, you gearheads, do i have a candidate here to do OIL/FILTER ONCE-A-YEAR on Mobil-1?
Given your mileage, I would seriously consider going for a longer freeway drive at least once a week. ("to blow it out") so to speak. You will potentially be giving it the hardest mileage that you can possibly give it from a maint point of view.
Yes a big 10-4 to #616. In the municipality I live in the recyclers come by every week, and will take used motor oil if in approved containers. Also some of the auto stores will take almost any quantity.. and worse case you can bring it to the recycle place (the dump) and they will recycle it, but here they charge you separately for it. Also, the county has hazardous material amnesty days?
I have no trouble switching then. I do like how much cleaner the synthetic oil looks between changes. Out of habit I might be able to stretch it to 5k between changes..*S*. What do you think about filters? I have used Purolators up to this point and I change everytime I change oil.
Brad
For me, I stick with OEM filters, reason is weird, in that I get them by the next higher assembly in my case, a case is ten filters.
You might think I am a bit "out there", in that I use a 15k interval for Mobil One 5-30W. Oil consumption is app 1/4 to 1/2 a qt at about 14k.
My dealer doesn't have a problem with this and has stated they will honor any warranty work. If you are in the least bit concerned they have those oil analysis bottles so you can test. I have had no problems or concerns but am well away a lot of folks find this interval a tad extreme. However I have an auto that is recommended to go out as far as 15k so in a sense it validates what I have researched and have practiced for a long time.
Sorry it should be "well aware".
Since then I have put it in my power stroke diesel and I really like it there also. I just bought another 2000 F150 and it will be going in this truck as soon as I get the oil from the warehouse.
This oil is the best on the market. If you have any questions feel free to contact me at wlh109@hotmail.com
Prove it. Any data, comparison tests, anything other than the Amsoils own "testimonials".
Pleaassseeee........................
Otherwise your statement is ungrounded.
It might prove beneficial to read a few of the more than 600 post to get a feeling where that Amsoil person is coming from. He may or maynot be a MLM but that is really not the point. The real point is whether or not the extra "betterness" is worth the increased price.
As you know conventional oil meets a very very high standard already. Synthetic just happens to be a superior lubricant. The real "rubber meets the road issue is whether or not it is worth the extra cost, given the fact that the cost to manufacture conventional oil and synthetic oil is about the same.