why rebuild at 150k or 200k when you can potentially go to 500k or better because the engine doen't need to be rebuilt. not to mention most people don't have the skills or resources to rebuild.
#1. i don't use amsoil though it is a very good product.i choose to use red line. my 87 van had 345,000 miles on it when i traded it for my 99 pu truck. it still was running like new, previous vehicles never got anywhere this mileage using hydro oils at 3k change intervals. if red line synthetics were snake oil and couldn't handle the acids no way i would have the that kind of mileage. anyway we all choose what nwe think best good luck
I have to agree with the above posting. Oil filters do a good job of reducing particulate matter in the oil, but they are incapable of removing the harmful acids that result from combustion. These acids (and other nasties) are held in suspension in the engine oil, and the only way to get rid of them is to change your oil. And IMHO, the only benefit derived from syn blends is cold weather starting. You don't realize the same benefits you get from 100% syn.
Is there truth to the talk of Synthetic RUN Down from the piston rings. If, the vehicle is not run for a couple of weeks. Does this cause potential oil starvation? Is it just too watery to keep parts lubricated at a stand still? Please, say it ain't so. Mobil-1 user.
I've read that synthetic oil contains additives to prevent starvation at start up. These additives help the oil to coat metal parts and remain on those parts. However, if your car is parked for 23 days, I believe that it will run down, just like conventional oil (isn't oil is a liquid after all?). When you will start you motor after any period of rest, the synthetic oil flows to moving parts faster, reducing wear. Check out http://mr2.com/TEXT/synth_oil.txt The article has a lot of information on syn oil (it sounds a little like a sales pitch, but not as much as the info you get from amsoil or mobil). Check out the Fluid Related Information @ http://mr2.com/Articles.html.
are add packs any different in synth oil vs. dino oil? i have not heard that they are (thus, any metal coating additives are just as likely to be in dino oil...)
Excellent article that articulates everything synoil producers and engineers have said about synthetic; unfortunately, you can load a dump truck with empirical evidence and people will still not listen. "Car guys" generally have their own "system" for maintaining their vehicles and they will always believe theirs is the best method. Interesting stuff at the end of the article about breaking your car in with dino oil for about 6K miles before using synthetic - have heard all kinds of advice in that area. What they wrote sounds logical though.
Add packs for mobil one anyway are the same as conventional oil. The base lubricant, synthetic is the difference. The metal additive that prevents a certain amount of metal to metal engine contact is zinc. HOWEVER remember all the trouble the people that do coatings have gotten into??? ie, duralube etc etc ( I am not singling them out just using them as an i.e. Oil manufacturers surely dont want to even be in the same neighborhood as that pothole.
Please do not throw rocks at the village idiot, but what brand oil does Amsoil market? Their own? If so, where do you find it, as I have not seen it before.
I recently purchased a used car from a reputable dealer. ('96 w/36k) I forgot to ask the previous owner what brand of oil they used. The dealer said Quaker 5w-30w. After changing the oil to Quaker State, the car is using a little oil now....1 qt. per 2k miles. Could it be the previous owner used a synthetic? Would switching to dino oil, if that were the case cause this? Or could switching brands of dino oil cause this also? Any info would be appreciated.
Amsoil makes very clear on the web page that 1 year and 25,000 miles is the interval. The other synthetics do not make any similar claim that I can find. How long will a synthetic (Syntech, Mobil 1, etc.) go before changes? I am trying to do some cost benefit analysis and that is difficult when the only information you can beat out of anyone is, "Follow the guidelines in your owner's manual."
Does anyone out there use Amsoil that is not also trying to sell it? I am trying to find someone with less of a stake in my purchase of Amsoil to give some straight answers on using it. Do you have to install the oil filter by-pass? Does installing the by-pass void the manufacturer's warranty?
No other synthetic oil lasts 1 year or 25,000 miles. Only Amsoil! All the others have to be changed by 5,000 miles,max. Amsoil costs more but in the long run will save you lots of money plus the benefits of better gas mileage and longer engine life. I use Amsoil in everything I own that has an engine.
If you have the room go for the by pass kit, go for it. It really keeps the oil clean, but you don't need to install it. This is the best synthetic money can buy. Better gas mileage, a quieter running engine and very little engine wear. Try it.
I use Amsoil; however, I have NEVER sold a can of it in my life. You will find MOST Amsoil "dealers", yes including myself, are "dealers" for the sole purpose of purchasing it at factory prices for their own use. If you use enough of it the $20 annual dealer fee is worth it, and every time you purchase you get some purchase credit. With Amsoil being a multi-level marketing company it is hard to promote this product without coming off as a salesman - which I definitely am not.
If I can answer your question, and you may be better off contacting Amsoil directly, you DO NOT have to install a bypass filter. I don't use one. There is not enough room in my Honda's engine bay to install one. Although it does not take up much room modern car engine bays are pretty packed. Most users that install one drive trucks, I think. Ironically, I purchased a 2000 Toyota Celica recently, which is a very small sport coupe and voila there is a nice space on the firewall to install one. Go figure. I am thinking about installing one. It appears there is ample evidence that they do work and allow you to go virtually oil change free. As you may well know synthetic does not chemically break down, at least not for a long time or under extreme stress that your car will never see, so the only problem has been how do you keep the oil clean and keep water, gas, byproducts out of the oil to keep running the oil. Enter the bypass filter. Also, yeah Amsoil is great but I will not hesitate to use Mobil 1 in my car also. Hope this helps.
I generally go 7,500 miles between oil changes, but I change the filter every 2,500 miles. This is probably overdoing it but it is still hard for me to extend my changes any more than that especially if I am city driving a lot. If I go with the bypass filter I will probably go the whole year, or more, between changes. It would sure be more economical and appears to be very safe.
#69 There are several premium synthetic manufacturers that testing has shown to outperform amsoil. it is true that maybe street vehicles don't need that level of technology but in any case it is available and does outperform the amsoil brand. (Red Line, Royal Purple, NEO ) all will outperform according to test data. I am not a dealer for any of these brands but i have compared all available data. for what it's worth. I use red line in my 99 truck and 95 van and RP in my 100,000 mile volvo.
I wonder if there is any perceptible difference between the major consumer brands. Based on posts I'd say that Mobil 1 is the most popular with Castrol second. What about Quaker State, Pennzoil, Valvoline, Texaco, Exxon or house brand synthetics. Is there a difference or if not is there a price point for value? For example the Pep Boys house brand synthetic is about a $1 cheaper per quart than Mobil 1, so what's the difference and does it still provide the synthetic properties?
i wrote (e-mail) to all manufacturers and asked for their test data, not the ad crap on their web sites but the actual test results, as well as the independent lab who did the tests. most responded either through e mail or by us mail. i lookes for corraborative data in each co. my analysis showed rp and red line with similar results. rp uses different pao base with a proprietary add pac and they say that is where there film strength comes from. red line uses polyol ester base (better base higher thermal stablity, friction coeff., etc. ) i suggest you do the same and make your own conclusions. one interesting point by red line, they agreed amsoil has better wear data unused, but they found it doesn,t hold up under real stress in running engines where red line actually got better as the oil was used, again i am not saying that amsoil is not good only in my semi-educated opinion red line and rp are alittle better. to e mail them go to the web sites they all have e mail addresses.
A well informed Valvoline person told me that only two companies manufacture the base stock for all synthetics-Lubrizol having the lion's share. I believe Mobil produces their own. The major marketers add a mix of additives based on their own chemistry. Several companies are notorious for the demonstrations such as the "slipping srewdriver" or the "no oil engine". The additive mix was designed to accentuate these non-real life examples. My experience is mostly with Mobil 1, but I suspect the competing products are relatively close in chemistry. BTW, I think the most critical use of synthetic lubes may be for transmissions. I towed a horse trailer with a Suburban for several years and noticed the ATF looked horrible. It also tended to boil even with an extra cooler. Switched to synthetic--problem solved. Fluid looked fine when changed annually and no overheating. BTW, didja notice at the Daytona 500 qualifying that several guys were running synthetics described as "watery" Obviously something like 0-0 weight.
They all run synthetic--all race cars do and have for years. Even though they change all fluids after every test, run-in or practice. One reason they do the change is to run an oil analysis. Team engineers can detect motor problems by filter/ oil analysis. Synthetic is good for 100-300 RPM depending on the type of motor.In the 1970s Showroom Stock SCCA racers were among the first to jump on synthetics (mostly RedLine then) as a way to boost RPM in very evenly matched cars. The synthetics used in race cars are often special blends as some of the sdditives are unnecesary while others have to be added to compensate for mthanol or alchohol fuels.
No one likes to hear it, but Consumer Reports says all modern oils that meet the latest spec are all the same. To make everyone madder, they also said that you only need/benefit from synthetics in very hot or cold climates.
Used ARCOGRAPHITE in early late '70s and early 80's and got GREAT RESULTS, min. ring and bearing wear on '74 TRUCK 350 Chevy engine, went 477,000 mi before engine replacement.
Currently use PROline Silver semi-syhthetic 5W-30 and Prolong engine oil treatment on '00 S10 Xtreme 2.2l, have driven 4500 mi and no loss of oil yet....oil still honey colored with DELCO AC UPF-47 ultra filter capacity flt. Will change at 5000 mi intervals.....
Would a by-pass filter kit work if you were not going to run synthetic in your car? I know that statement is probably heresy here, but can we forgo the burning at the stake? I've heard some horror sories about synthetics and leaks and not doing as good on startup, and I'm still kinda leery. But the filter does sound interesting.
The mechanic at the dealership I bought my truck at described using synthetic oil as an expensive oil change. He said the best defense is to change every 3000 miles. He didn't argue that using 0w-30 in the winter (in Minnesota) would be better, but he still believed a 3000 mile oil change. My question is about synthetic blends. Are they worth considering when changing at 3000 miles? They are one half the price (or less) of full synthetics. I am just wondering if we are throwing our money away on these oils. My theory on oil changes always was that acids form on the bearings and moving parts while running the engine that the filter can't filter out. the only way to solve this problem is with frequent oil changes. A person could change his oil frequently with less expense with synthetic blends hopefully with some of the cold and hot weather benefits of full synthetics.
#87 The real answer is that synthetic oil is way better than conventional oil. The additive paks are pretty much the same as conventional oils.
As you have probably have heard, the current oils are very much better than those of yesteryear, and that is codified with a high standard of SJ. As a result of a combination of things manufacturers can recommend longer time and/or frequency between oil changes i.e. 7,500 as opposed to 3,000. So while changing conventional oil at 3,000 is extreme, it will not hurt anything and is of economic benefit to those who would change oil at 3,000 miles. On the other hand, synthetic oils can do app 3x the time and/or frequency of conventional oil. So in the above case it can go 22.5k/9k.
Personally, I change my synthetic oil every 15k. while closing on 70k miles it is as clean as a whistle, and I have changed oil app 5 times (I used convention oil to break the engine in)
So if you subscribe to the 3k oil change and care about the cost. Synthetic costs more.
#88 If you do a blend you get the blended worst of both worlds, ie. high cost with longevity that is limited by the low cost of conventional oils, but with low longevity; To me; if you do the 3k change stay with the conventional oil, if you are at all concerned about cost.
Disagree. Synth blend runs me $1.30 per qt. Change every 3 to 4k miles whenever my oil change light comes on. The 10W-30 blend pours significantly better at room temp than conv 10W-30. Only costs me an extra $1.50 to $2.00 to have the blend.
As you said, most of the rest of the time use of your conventionals with your 3-4k change frequency, it makes sense to use conventions. Blends cost more than similar conventions, but hey tis your nickel. For me to go to longer change frequencies and balancing protection, it becomes economically feasible to use the synthetics @15k between changes. Plus I get under the hood with oil dripping down my engine parts up to 5x less. And times 4 it saves me a lot of work time and money, not to mention the disposal of 5x less used oil product.
I have a new Formula WS6 with 800 miles. A person who I think is knowledgeable about this (and I have been reading most of the various posts relating to this topic as well) suggested that I not only change to synthetic oil at my 1000 mile break-in oil change, but also suggested I might want to change to synthetic transmission fluid at the same time. I wondered if this is really worth the time, effort, and money. Any thoughts. Also, though I'm not sure where to post this so I will just include it here as well, this same person told me he could buy and install - I forget what it is - a part that would override the computer and eliminate the skip shift in my transmission. I detest the skip shift and want to do it, but just wondered if it was risky to the car, would void the warranty, or pose any other detrimental problems. Has anyone heard or done this themselves?
I'm running synthetic engine, transmission, and gear oil in my two cars and an SUV. The extended drain intervals and increased protection is worth it to me, regardless of what the geeks at Consumers Union think(what do they know? I mean, they think Cerwin Vega speakers sound GOOD, for pete's sake...). As for the skip shift elimnator, you simply unplug the harness from the transmission and insert a resistor(of the correct rating) into the harness plug so that the ECM thinks it is still connected to the tranny. Check the Sports Car Conference for more info.
#94 You are refering to CAGS? If so the cost can be from 1.50- 25 bucks for the 2.2k ohm resister, home brew or buying a vendor made solution. After having access the job can take downwards of 10 mins. Low to no risk and it just tells the computer that you are still "connected with no malfunction so to speak.
Yup, wait about six months or a year and change your fluids over. Buy a de-CAGS kit from JEGS or make one like ruking says. GM dealers see most of these vehicles with CAGS not active. Check out the LS-1 website for info.
I work with two individuals who use M1 in their vehicles. One has a 89 Chevy P/U with 350 and automatic and is used to haul a slide in camper unit. Worked with him 8 years and know that the truck has 280k+ miles all on M1. He changes the filter every 3k and the oil every 20k. The other person has a motorcoach and a older civic which he switched to M1 after purchase. The civic had 120k and now has 170k+ with no ill effects from the switchover to synthetic. They have convinced me to run synthetic but now there are several to choose from and wonder if any real diff betweenn them or if they all have the same qualities, M1, Castrol, Exxon, Quaker State, other brands, sold like ammsoil, only thru distibutors. Appreciate any input on sites to visit.
It is great that your friend's behavior has indicated that he has cut thru the bru ha ha, lies and damned lies and hype on this issue.
Oil, both conventional and synthetic has known degradation patterns. That is how the standards can be imposed and meaningful testing can be done.
There are 6 numbers that really make a difference; 1. VI or viscosity index 2. Flash (point) 3. Pour 4. % ash content 5. % zinc
The last three reasons (3,4,5,) are the real reasons in addition to longer life over conventional oils you buy synthetic oils.
Given the same patterns, synthetic lasts app 3x longer than very good and high quality conventional oils.
(the quality of conventional oils has never been better). "Add packs" or additive packages are virtually the same for both conventional and synthetic.
What is not known: are the situations that we consumers will put it thru. And, as we have endlessly debated, is where the differences of opinion occur.
How long filters last is a deeply guarded secret and I suspect will remain so, for it casts doubt on the whole system. So if filters are the chink point or archilles tendon, and we have no practical way to measure, change oil filters more frequently. Most folks throw the baby out with the wash. So if you change the whole system more than you need to, religiously, which or whose religion does that benefit?
I change synthetic oil and filter at 15k and the beast is going on 75k and is clean as a whistle with almost no wear (dealer had it apart for valve measurement at 60k).
Finally, the numbers in the synthetic oil line do vary (as do those in the conventional oil also).
Practically, I personally would buy on price. But as you know that choice is what makes this thread go round. All the best!! Incidently I use Mobil One.
Thanks for the extra input. I never studied the 5 items about the content of the oils. Of those numbers, which should be high vs low values. Never gave it a thought about what is oil dyno or synthetic. As I did ask, is there a site that would give those 5 items a comparison between the various brands? As I am debating between castrol and mobil 1.
#101 Thanks for the input!! Ball is in your court! Would you please delineate this topic for this fine audience. Thanks.
#102
I will have to research and post web sites that explain this more on the side of non technical.
If Castrol Syntec and Mobil One are your choices realistically they do have slightly diff number's but not significant and I would buy on price. If you prefer one or the other for whatever reason buy the one that gives you the warm fuzzies, both are excellent off the shelf, mass marketed choices, in my humble opinion.
Comments
BTW, filters don't remove acids....
I live where we get nightime lows about 40 lower than daytime highs (usually around 0 in winter). Figure the blended oil helps pumping at low temps.
Only run full synthetics in my two and four stroke motorcycles and truck when exposed to <-20F temps.
Yawl have been sold a bill of goods on the extended oil change intervals.
Interesting stuff at the end of the article about breaking your car in with dino oil for about 6K miles before using synthetic - have heard all kinds of advice in that area. What they wrote sounds logical though.
hmm... if anyone can answer the question in #68, i'd like to hear it too.
If I can answer your question, and you may be better off contacting Amsoil directly, you DO NOT have to install a bypass filter. I don't use one. There is not enough room in my Honda's engine bay to install one. Although it does not take up much room modern car engine bays are pretty packed. Most users that install one drive trucks, I think. Ironically, I purchased a 2000 Toyota Celica recently, which is a very small sport coupe and voila there is a nice space on the firewall to install one. Go figure. I am thinking about installing one. It appears there is ample evidence that they do work and allow you to go virtually oil change free. As you may well know synthetic does not chemically break down, at least not for a long time or under extreme stress that your car will never see, so the only problem has been how do you keep the oil clean and keep water, gas, byproducts out of the oil to keep running the oil. Enter the bypass filter.
Also, yeah Amsoil is great but I will not hesitate to use Mobil 1 in my car also. Hope this helps.
There are several premium synthetic manufacturers that testing has shown to outperform amsoil. it is true that maybe street vehicles don't need that level of technology but in any case it is available and does outperform the amsoil brand.
(Red Line, Royal Purple, NEO ) all will outperform according to test data. I am not a dealer for any of these brands but i have compared all available data. for what it's worth. I use red line in my 99 truck and 95 van and RP in my 100,000 mile volvo.
i wrote (e-mail) to all manufacturers and asked for their test data, not the ad crap on their web sites but the actual test results, as well as the independent lab who did the tests. most responded either through e mail or by us mail. i lookes for corraborative data in each co.
my analysis showed rp and red line with similar results. rp uses different pao base with a proprietary add pac and they say that is where there film strength comes from. red line uses polyol ester base (better base higher thermal stablity, friction coeff., etc. )
i suggest you do the same and make your own conclusions. one interesting point by red line, they agreed amsoil has better wear data unused, but they found it doesn,t hold up under real stress in running engines where red line actually got better as the oil was used, again i am not saying that amsoil is not good only in my semi-educated opinion red line and rp are alittle better. to e mail them go to the web sites they all have e mail addresses.
My experience is mostly with Mobil 1, but I suspect the competing products are relatively close in chemistry. BTW, I think the most critical use of synthetic lubes may be for transmissions. I towed a horse trailer with a Suburban for several years and noticed the ATF looked horrible. It also tended to boil even with an extra cooler. Switched to synthetic--problem solved. Fluid looked fine when changed annually and no overheating.
BTW, didja notice at the Daytona 500 qualifying that several guys were running synthetics described as "watery" Obviously something like 0-0 weight.
Synthetic is good for 100-300 RPM depending on the type of motor.In the 1970s Showroom Stock SCCA racers were among the first to jump on synthetics (mostly RedLine then) as a way to boost RPM in very evenly matched cars. The synthetics used in race cars are often special blends as some of the sdditives are unnecesary while others have to be added to compensate for mthanol or alchohol fuels.
To make everyone madder, they also said that you only need/benefit from synthetics in very hot or cold climates.
80's and got GREAT RESULTS, min. ring and bearing
wear on '74 TRUCK 350 Chevy engine, went 477,000
mi before engine replacement.
Currently use PROline Silver semi-syhthetic 5W-30
and Prolong engine oil treatment on '00 S10
Xtreme 2.2l, have driven 4500 mi and no loss of
oil yet....oil still honey colored with DELCO
AC UPF-47 ultra filter capacity flt. Will change at 5000 mi intervals.....
My question is about synthetic blends. Are they worth considering when changing at 3000 miles?
They are one half the price (or less) of full synthetics.
I am just wondering if we are throwing our money away on these oils. My theory on oil changes always was that acids form on the bearings and moving parts while running the engine that the filter can't filter out. the only way to solve this problem is with frequent oil changes. A person could change his oil frequently with less expense with synthetic blends hopefully with some of the cold and hot weather benefits of full synthetics.
The real answer is that synthetic oil is way better than conventional oil. The additive paks are pretty much the same as conventional oils.
As you have probably have heard, the current oils are very much better than those of yesteryear, and that is codified with a high standard of SJ. As a result of a combination of things manufacturers can recommend longer time and/or frequency between oil changes i.e. 7,500 as opposed to 3,000.
So while changing conventional oil at 3,000 is extreme, it will not hurt anything and is of economic benefit to those who would change oil at 3,000 miles. On the other hand, synthetic oils can do app 3x the time and/or frequency of conventional oil. So in the above case it can go 22.5k/9k.
Personally, I change my synthetic oil every 15k. while closing on 70k miles it is as clean as a whistle, and I have changed oil app 5 times (I used convention oil to break the engine in)
So if you subscribe to the 3k oil change and care about the cost. Synthetic costs more.
If you do a blend you get the blended worst of both worlds, ie. high cost with longevity that is limited by the low cost of conventional oils, but with low longevity; To me; if you do the 3k change stay with the conventional oil, if you are at all concerned about cost.
Let me ask another way, why not use full synthetic?
Ran M1 0W-30 for a trip up north where nightime temps dipped to minus 31F.
Most of the rest of the time, conventionals are probably just as good for my usage.
Only run full synthetics in my race vehicles where the cost of oil is insignificant compared to other expenses....
You are refering to CAGS? If so the cost can be from 1.50- 25 bucks for the 2.2k ohm resister, home brew or buying a vendor made solution. After having access the job can take downwards of 10 mins. Low to no risk and it just tells the computer that you are still "connected with no malfunction so to speak.
You probably already have synth in your diff.
It is great that your friend's behavior has indicated that he has cut thru the bru ha ha, lies and damned lies and hype on this issue.
Oil, both conventional and synthetic has known degradation patterns. That is how the standards can be imposed and meaningful testing can be done.
There are 6 numbers that really make a difference;
1. VI or viscosity index
2. Flash (point)
3. Pour
4. % ash content
5. % zinc
The last three reasons (3,4,5,) are the real reasons in addition to longer life over conventional oils you buy synthetic oils.
Given the same patterns, synthetic lasts app 3x longer than very good and high quality conventional oils.
(the quality of conventional oils has never been better). "Add packs" or additive packages are virtually the same for both conventional and synthetic.
What is not known: are the situations that we consumers will put it thru. And, as we have endlessly debated, is where the differences of opinion occur.
How long filters last is a deeply guarded secret and I suspect will remain so, for it casts doubt on the whole system. So if filters are the chink point or archilles tendon, and we have no practical way to measure, change oil filters more frequently. Most folks throw the baby out with the wash. So if you change the whole system more than you need to, religiously, which or whose religion does that benefit?
I change synthetic oil and filter at 15k and the beast is going on 75k and is clean as a whistle with almost no wear (dealer had it apart for valve measurement at 60k).
Finally, the numbers in the synthetic oil line do vary (as do those in the conventional oil also).
Practically, I personally would buy on price. But as you know that choice is what makes this thread go round. All the best!! Incidently I use Mobil One.
And graphically, I should learn to count: correction, 6 to read 5 (five)
#6 TBN
Buffers the acids that form in all oils subjected to combustion.....
Thanks for the input!! Ball is in your court! Would you please delineate this topic for this fine audience. Thanks.
#102
I will have to research and post web sites that explain this more on the side of non technical.
If Castrol Syntec and Mobil One are your choices realistically they do have slightly diff number's but not significant and I would buy on price. If you prefer one or the other for whatever reason buy the one that gives you the warm fuzzies, both are excellent off the shelf, mass marketed choices, in my humble opinion.