Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    Ooh Bentley Azure, stop pushing my buttons. I'd take one of those over a modern Continental.

    Today's dreamer of the day

    Half that and we will talk. Maybe. I loathe these flipper/speculators.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Price is crazy. $19.5K would be more than enough and generous at that.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    I could see it getting into the 20s to a real devotee (if the car is genuinely perfect), but no more. I doubt the MB "All Time Stars" program that sells vintage cars at the MB Museum in Stuttgart would want so much for it, and 126s are worth a lot more in Europe.

    Low mileage cars are a pain. Can't drive em, or the value goes away. But you could get a nice one with 3x the mileage (still a 50K mile car) for much less, drive it now and then, and do no harm. One can see which is the smarter purchase.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,761
    Mr_Shiftright said:

    Ferrari would be way more costly. Figure $2 a mile, easy, not including fuel and insurance.

    BUT at least the Ferrari will hold value if not increase, while the Benz will likely depreciate into oblivion.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited October 2017
    True enough. The Benz will appear on a YouTube video about looking rich for cheap, soon enough, or take 32nd place in a LeMons race.

    Of course, not all Ferraris appreciate. A person could get suckered into buying the wrong model of the wrong Ferrari at the wrong time and suffer a mighty blow.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,510
    and the problem is, the "cheap" Ferraris cost just as much to maintain as the real ones.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Cheapest Ferrari right now is the Mondial and the 400 2+2, with median auction price around $25,000. Of course, a major service is $30K, sooooooo.....
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    I think the 400 series Ferraris are quite handsome, but I bet running costs are no better if not worse than a guilty pleasure Corniche. Guess I will stick with old MBs :)
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,422
    Opinions Wanted

    https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/713491113/overview/

    This 2008 X5 looks gorgeous and has a clean carfax. I only drive 6 or 7,000 mils a year so I am OK buying a car with miles. I like that this has the naturually aspirated straight 6. What should I be looking out for?
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,761
    need to knock $1k-$1500 off. And get it inspected by a bimmer dealer.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,133
    My understanding is that the cooling system (radiator and water pump included) on BMWs often needs replacement after about 10 years, so factor those costs into your offer if that work hasn't been done.
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,422
    texases said:

    My understanding is that the cooling system (radiator and water pump included) on BMWs often needs replacement after about 10 years, so factor those costs into your offer if that work hasn't been done.

    Thanks. It's my understanding that these have an electric water pump that can be pricey.

    http://www.autozone.com/cooling-heating-and-climate-control/water-pump/duralast-water-pump/592271_0_25645
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    texases said:

    According to the FAA link it was a stall on takeoff, killing the pilot.
    I got in about 40 hours of training in Anchorage before I decided my curiosity with flying was no match for the dangers of Alaskan aviation.

    There are two things I will no longer do.

    1. Fly as a passenger in a small private airplane.
    2. Ride on the back of a motorcycle.

  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,133
    Good plan. When I was in Anchorage they did a study of the private pilots: 1% of them died from airplane crashes over a 10-year period. That's WAY too high for a 'hobby', for me!
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Let's see; mountainous, snow and ice, ocean wind currents all creating sudden, sometimes unexpected issues - what could go wrong B)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Don't forget icing and blind canyons, heavy cloud cover and sudden storms.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,133
    And trying to take off with a moose carcass 2X over max load rating...
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Or a frozen body tied to the skis, which if course is totally illegal. However, you can stuff an amazing amount of material into a Cessna 180 but remember not to shove it too far down toward the tail B)
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,761
    texases said:
    Good plan. When I was in Anchorage they did a study of the private pilots: 1% of them died from airplane crashes over a 10-year period. That's WAY too high for a 'hobby', for me!
    1%? That's it? Seems like a safe place to be! Pretty sure my daily commute holds higher risk.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,133
    Talk about "mean streets"!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited October 2017
    Most crashes are, I believe, from out-of-state pilots. They bite off more than they can chew up there.

    Some crashed planes are never recovered although sometimes they try to reach them to fetch the engine. If they crash way up in the mountains, they will remain there forever.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I believe there is still an old Northwest DC4 stuck in the Rockies. I know there are several B727's at the bottom of Lake Michigan.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I think they do make every effort to get the bodies out though. But it takes a special kind of helicopter to get up that high and there's no place for a fixed wing plane to land above say 12K or 13K feet. I suppose you could land on a nearby glacier and climb in.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,761
    Here is a special one for Fin
     https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/686737087/overview?aff=share_other

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • MichaellMichaell Moderator Posts: 263,669
    qbrozen said:

    Here is a special one for Fin
     https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/686737087/overview?aff=share_other

    That ad is About ready to celebrate its first birthday!

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  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    I like it, but the age of the ad is worrisome, if it is unsold. We're getting to the point where a genuinely mint V12 W140 will actually bring that kind of money, something might be wrong. I notice the passenger side lower cladding is a shade off from front to back, could be aging weird (as it is plastic), or could be signs of paintwork. These cars need to have pristine original finishes to command top dollar, along with having no real needs.

    I'd like to find one of these cars in the teal-y blue that was offered at the time, with maybe a tan/beige/"peanut butter" interior - the latter was well known on earlier 140s. These cars have long been seen as kind of brutal and severe with their blunt style and large size, especially compared to the timeless W126, but they have aged well, and will eventually be modern classics like the 126.
    qbrozen said:

    Here is a special one for Fin
     https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/686737087/overview?aff=share_other

  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,133
    Only 30k miles in 25 years? That would worry me.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited October 2017
    Michaell said:

    qbrozen said:

    Here is a special one for Fin
     https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/686737087/overview?aff=share_other

    That ad is About ready to celebrate its first birthday!
    "Selden Motors is looking for the few....the brave..."

    Buyers are scared to death of these cars, and well they should be.

    This type of engineering is why Lexus beat the crap out of Mercedes in the 1990s. Overly complex, brutal repair costs, horrendous fuel mileage, poor reliability, dizzying depreciation.

    Fortunately, Mercedes woke up out of this stupor and gave buyers more for less.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    The mileage doesn't scare me, if the car has been maintained. At my current rate, I probably don't drive the fintail much more.

    If the car hasn't had a wiring harness change yet, it will eventually need it - budget a few grand at least.

    Regarding Lexus, it had nothing to compete with a 120K V12 car in 1992, and in terms of sedans, it never has. Lexus reformed the Germans, but not in terms of the highest models.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Lexus didn't have to compete with a 120K V-12 in 1992. That was the whole point. Lexus took on the main Mercedes line, not the halo car. The 600 just represents everything that was wrong with Mercedes at the time, only on a larger scale.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,761
    The miles are not all that surprising. Many big benzes wind up in the hands of wealthy older folks who don't get around much and/or have a fleet of vehicles.

    Did someone say they want a blue big benz?
    https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/711608283/overview?aff=share_other

    Pretty sure that disproves Benz waking up and moving away from overly complex and over-the-top land barges, shifty.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Old man's car to my eyes.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    Mercedes doesn't need the big car either, they make it because they can. That's the point of the cars. Nothing logical about them.

    The halo cars got much more dramatic to live with when the W220 V12 cars were introduced - makes a W140 look like living with a Honda Civic. I wouldn't take an early 00s V12 MB for free. And they still sold every one they could make, and they still own that market segment, along with having overall global lux sales that Lexus can still only dream about.

    If I want a car that represents the problems with MB, I'd say maybe an 01 S600. So needlessly complex, and they haven't aged well. The 2007+ models have fared a lot better, it's really only in the past 10 years or so where I can really see MB improving again.
    Mr_Shiftright said:

    Lexus didn't have to compete with a 120K V-12 in 1992. That was the whole point. Lexus took on the main Mercedes line, not the halo car. The 600 just represents everything that was wrong with Mercedes at the time, only on a larger scale.

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    Looks like a wrap or maybe a questionable respray - not a factory color.

    That being said, the W221/C216+ V12 cars are worlds better to live with than their older counterparts.
    qbrozen said:

    The miles are not all that surprising. Many big benzes wind up in the hands of wealthy older folks who don't get around much and/or have a fleet of vehicles.

    Did someone say they want a blue big benz?
    https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/711608283/overview?aff=share_other

    Pretty sure that disproves Benz waking up and moving away from overly complex and over-the-top land barges, shifty.

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,761
    oh, i thought the "designo edition" explained the color. I'd be kinda intrigued if not for that horrible shade of blue.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Benzes do not look good in any of those warm climate colors, IMO. Lt blue, lt green, any shade of red, mauve, yellow, etc. Doesn't work! Benzes are made in Germany, not Barbados.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    I'm not aware of a Designo blue that looks like it would work on a 1958 car. Those wheels don't do the car any favors either, they look pretty gauche. MBs seldom work on aftermarket wheels.

    MB has had some lightish blues lately that I like. Quart Blue works well (but was only available for a few years):

    image

    A modern equivalent is Diamond Silver, which has a dose of blue:

    image

    In the late 80s/early 90s they had some lovely blues, like my old Diamond Blue W126, and the blue used on W124s - I would want my 500E in this color:

    image


  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 53,510
    I really like that E wagon

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,761
    my boss has a C class in that diamond silver. It is pretty nice.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,708
    Stop posting those wagons, fin! These always result in me wandering off on an internet search.... :'(
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I think Lexus took off fairly quickly because Cadillac, MB, et. al. had kind of let their quality fall down. However, today it is different. Toyota seems to have let Lexus go stale except for some rather quirky styling.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,708
    The whole concept of "luxury" in an automobile is drastically different from what it was decades ago. I might be off in my estimation, here; I don't think it sells like it once did.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,510
    That wagon is fairly ideal - first year of the twin turbo V8, final year of Quartz Blue.
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,422
    berri said:

    I think Lexus took off fairly quickly because Cadillac, MB, et. al. had kind of let their quality fall down. However, today it is different. Toyota seems to have let Lexus go stale except for some rather quirky styling.

    I said to my wife the other day that all new Lexuses need to need to look like a transformer with a headache
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,422
    78 Nova

    https://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/cto/d/1978-chevrolet-nova/6310391931.html

    Looks like it could be an OK entry level driver to get into cruise nights. All the wording is awkward, but what about the engine? It looks like a small block V8, but the listing is 248 ci? Were they making them that small? Was there anything smaller than a 305 in 78?
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 11,133
    edited October 2017
    gsemike said:

    78 Nova

    https://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/cto/d/1978-chevrolet-nova/6310391931.html

    Looks like it could be an OK entry level driver to get into cruise nights. All the wording is awkward, but what about the engine? It looks like a small block V8, but the listing is 248 ci? Were they making them that small? Was there anything smaller than a 305 in 78?

    Looks like they messed up the listing. According to wiki:
    "Any 1978 Chevrolet Nova could be ordered with a 250-cubic-inch six-cylinder engine, a 145-horsepower 305-cubic-inch V-8, or a 170-horsepower 350-cubic-inch V-8."

    It also says the 262 CID V8 was only available in '75.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    I remember that you could get a 71 Nova with a 350. Wonder if that would have handled a bit squirrelly ?
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 20,349
    berri said:

    I remember that you could get a 71 Nova with a 350. Wonder if that would have handled a bit squirrelly ?

    Up to 1970 you could also get a SS396 Nova which I'm sure must have been a handful.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,956
    edited October 2017
    berri said:

    I think Lexus took off fairly quickly because Cadillac, MB, et. al. had kind of let their quality fall down. However, today it is different. Toyota seems to have let Lexus go stale except for some rather quirky styling.

    Yes, but they still make indestructible cars:

    http://www.autonews.com/article/20171019/RETAIL/171019640/toyota-consumerreports-reliability-survey-fca

    I would guess a very high percentage of Lexus vehicles NOT still on the road were crashed and wrecked by their drivers.
    '18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • gsemikegsemike Member Posts: 2,422
    andres3 said:

    berri said:

    I think Lexus took off fairly quickly because Cadillac, MB, et. al. had kind of let their quality fall down. However, today it is different. Toyota seems to have let Lexus go stale except for some rather quirky styling.

    Yes, but they still make indestructible cars:

    http://www.autonews.com/article/20171019/RETAIL/171019640/toyota-consumerreports-reliability-survey-fca

    I would guess a very high percentage of Lexus vehicles NOT still on the road were crashed and wrecked by their drivers.
    My current car is an 04 Sienna. It's my first Toyota. I have to say, closing in on 140k, I'm really impressed with how it's held up. I've fixed some things along that way, which you'd have to say about any 13 year old car. It's not just that it's still running. Plenty of cars with 140k are, but how it runs and how the whole thing has held up. No check engine lights. Idles quiet at 600 rpm with my foot on the brake. No rattles on the road. AC will freeze the sweat on your forehead. Leather seats still look good. It's a testament to preventative maintenance and reasonable driving, but it rarely needs anything and seems like it can keep running for years.
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