Funny I wrote that comment last night, then today I see this article in Boomberg:
VW Toys With Giving Up the U.S. Mass Market, and Dealers Fume
One key quote that's right in line with my original comments: Now, after aiming for the masses, VW would have trouble turning back to boutique status, Noble said. “They have already eroded their ability to charge premium prices. They don’t have a single product that people will pay a premium for.”
Well heck, I think Toyota gave theirs up several years ago with a bunch of cost cutting and quality gaffes that led to bringing back Toyoda family at the helm - but they seemed to then fix things and are selling well in the US (even despite the rather extreme recent styling).
I wonder if such as VW decision would be more based on making it more difficult for the US and American diesel buyers and dealers to litigate instead?
Thanks to Dieselgate, "Volkswagen’s senior management has changed — and so has its approach to the union drive. Now, rather than cooperating with the U.A.W., Volkswagen is trying to block the union.
The linking of Volkswagen’s dealings with the union to the highly embarrassing and potentially costly diesel emissions matter reflects the bitterness that now exists between the union and the employer it once viewed as a partner, said Maury Nicely, a Chattanooga lawyer who represents a group of Volkswagen workers who oppose the U.A.W.
“Clearly the gloves have come off,” Mr. Nicely said."
The UAW lost fair and square. So now they are trying an end around of divide and conquer. I know from experience the company can drag their feet on negotiating for years. If I was VW I would contract maintenance out and let the contractor deal with the few that want a Union. This could be all it takes to send VW packing to their much larger plant in Mexico. They can ship the few cars being sold in the USA from MX.
Unless the deal made with the Feds on dieselgate include building the Golf EV in the USA. I never got the feeling the US management wanted the UAW. It was pressure from German unions. Now they have their hands full.
"This could be all it takes to send VW packing to their much larger plant in Mexico."
I'd like to send VW packing back to Europe.
Now now now, everyone here has argued more competition is good for everyone. I doubt the Focus RS would be as good as it is if it wasn't for the Golf R. It's bad enough a M235i costs $50K, that should be what the M2 costs.
'18 Porsche Macan Turbo, '16 Audi TTS, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
It seems unfortunate that you are right Andres because Detroit generally has the capabilities but seems to most frequently respond rather than lead. There was a time when Detroit innovated, but other than nonsense like self driving cars, it doesn't seem to happen very often these days on their vehicles. And the self driving vehicle money is primarily because they are concerned someone like Google or Apple will get into their business.
I guess someone did not like the results of the UAW election?
Two high-ranking United Auto Workers Local 551 officials were shot outside the union hall in Hegewisch shortly after winning re-election to the executive board on Friday night.
UAW Local 551, which represents more than 4,200 workers at the Ford's Chicago Assembly Plant on the Calumet River, had just had an election and announced the results.
The man shot a 40-year-old man in the left leg and a 44-year-old man in the right leg, Lemmon said. They drove themselves to Franciscan St. Margaret Health hospital in Hammond, where they were in stable condition.
Lemmon said the suspect is not yet in custody, but police know who they're looking for.
Aaron "Hammer" Straker and Jeff "UAW" Bacon, who both were re-elected to the bargaining unit Friday, identified themselves on Facebook as the victims in the shooting.
Names like Straker and Bacon - you can't make this stuff up! In Chicago shooting people is kind of the local sport anyway. Add that to UAW history and you are ripe for these sorts of things.
"A signed agreement shows that Volkswagen officials reneged on a pledge to recognize the United Auto Workers without another vote at the German automaker's lone U.S. plant in Tennessee, a top union official said Tuesday."
VW USA was NEVER interested in having the UAW. That was all from Germany and their Unions. With their whole tenure in the USA up in the air. Getting involved with the UAW is the last thing VW needs.
The UAW is trying to organize the workers at the Fuyai Glass plant in Moraine, Oh. This is the same plant that the UAW wanted the administration to close as part of the takeover of GM because the workers at this plant were IBEW instead of UAW. So the plant was closed as GM adjusted their manufacturing, jobs lost, families hurt, etc.. The plant manufactured midsize SUVs with many GM brand labels. It originally was the site of a Frigidaire plant, hence the IBEW union on the location after GM razed and rebuilt an automobile plant.
After the plant went silent for many years, and the city was able to get a Chinese company to use part of the space for auto glass, now the UAW is interested in their dues money.
The UAW is trying to organize the workers at the Fuyai Glass plant in Moraine, Oh. This is the same plant that the UAW wanted the administration to close as part of the takeover of GM because the workers at this plant were IBEW instead of UAW. So the plant was closed as GM adjusted their manufacturing, jobs lost, families hurt, etc.. The plant manufactured midsize SUVs with many GM brand labels. It originally was the site of a Frigidaire plant, hence the IBEW union on the location after GM razed and rebuilt an automobile plant.
After the plant went silent for many years, and the city was able to get a Chinese company to use part of the space for auto glass, now the UAW is interested in their dues money.
So they are currently non-unionized? I guess UAW is looking for ways to expand. Do you think the local attitudes are still strongly pro-union given the last 15 years or so, or has the attitude shifted?
So they are currently non-unionized? I guess UAW is looking for ways to expand. Do you think the local attitudes are still strongly pro-union given the last 15 years or so, or has the attitude shifted?
The foreign company came in with what I perceive to be the typical propaganda of managment being turned over to US folks over time. But the several years since has found the token US workers being replaced by foreign managers for flimsy reasons. Lawsuits have been placed over that. The hourly workers have complained about instanteous rule changes and even what sounded like unannounced work rule changes through the years.
One bone of contention over the voting was whether the votes of the interpreters would be included or not. They were allowed to cast tentative votes.
I see some people from the company management eating at some local restaurants at noon and note an air of superiority.
The UAW did lose 2-1 approximately. I am surprised the loss was so definite. But I believe many of the workers understand how the UAW threw the local workers, who were by heritage IBEW and another trade union under the SUV (what was built there before it closed), during negotiations with the gov't over being given stock in GM. I would have thought UAW would have supported the locals because they contributed a lot of hidden effort in elections in door-to-door and hidden campaign support for the party that favors unions.
I predict a revote after a year of more worker complaints over treatment. We'll see.
You have to realize that some of your comments are fairly foreign to myself who's not worked in a union environment. The entire concept of "voting" and "work rule changes" aren't even considered in most work environments. You get a job, you do processes as management tells you to do (within legal and OSHA limits of course). You don't like your job, you go find another one. The concept that employees just say no when they aren't happy with management is kind of ridiculous unless the change is really unreasonable.
I've heard stories of union shops where able-bodied and available people won't pick something up because that's not in their job description. That strikes me as quite bizarre.
You get a job, you do processes as management tells you to do (within legal and OSHA limits of course). You don't like your job, you go find another one. The concept that employees just say no when they aren't happy with management is kind of ridiculous unless the change is really unreasonable.
Along with some capricious changes to work rules and requirements, there have been lots of comments making the media about safety. The safety concerns were a large part of the push for the UAW. Search for Fuyai and dayton daily news or whio and you may find some of them.
I've heard stories of union shops where able-bodied and available people won't pick something up because that's not in their job description. That strikes me as quite bizarre.
I doubt many of those stories. However, I was inside the Harrison plant near the location of this one decades ago and saw folks who had completed their production quota for the shift (!) and were lying on large wooden shipping crates stacked up and resting. I was stunned. Those were the good old days. The Harrison plant produced air conditioning compressors here.
We did observe that a shed roof that covered picnic tables at which workers ate or took breaks disappeared last week that was outside the factory building. Curious that the company took it down at this time.
You have to realize that some of your comments are fairly foreign to myself who's not worked in a union environment. The entire concept of "voting" and "work rule changes" aren't even considered in most work environments. You get a job, you do processes as management tells you to do (within legal and OSHA limits of course). You don't like your job, you go find another one. The concept that employees just say no when they aren't happy with management is kind of ridiculous unless the change is really unreasonable.
I've heard stories of union shops where able-bodied and available people won't pick something up because that's not in their job description. That strikes me as quite bizarre.
You must remember the state of California is the largest employer in the state. Most of the workers have Unions that pretty much control everything about their jobs. Those in charge do as the Union says or they will learn what political power the Unions hold over the State legislators and governor. Unions like UAW have been neutered over the last 50 years. Even when I was in the CWA from 1961 to 70 it was a company Union. I watched my Teamster's union lose power over the 37 years I was working. They have lost a lot more over the last 11 years since I retired.
PS You are correct about stepping on someone else's toes. At RCA where I worked an engineer had to get a warehouse man to move his desk or even his computer to a different location. Most of those Union rules are gone.
Railroads kept firemen in the diesel engine cab for many years well after technology didn't require them. The original B737 kept a 3rd flight engineer in the cockpit to monitor gauges for awhile too even though technology no longer required them. UAW still doesn't give Detroit auto manufacturers the employee flexibility of the transplants. Featherbedding!
You have to realize that some of your comments are fairly foreign to myself who's not worked in a union environment. The entire concept of "voting" and "work rule changes" aren't even considered in most work environments. You get a job, you do processes as management tells you to do (within legal and OSHA limits of course). You don't like your job, you go find another one. The concept that employees just say no when they aren't happy with management is kind of ridiculous unless the change is really unreasonable.
I've heard stories of union shops where able-bodied and available people won't pick something up because that's not in their job description. That strikes me as quite bizarre.
You must remember the state of California is the largest employer in the state. Most of the workers have Unions that pretty much control everything about their jobs. Those in charge do as the Union says or they will learn what political power the Unions hold over the State legislators and governor. Unions like UAW have been neutered over the last 50 years. Even when I was in the CWA from 1961 to 70 it was a company Union. I watched my Teamster's union lose power over the 37 years I was working. They have lost a lot more over the last 11 years since I retired.
PS You are correct about stepping on someone else's toes. At RCA where I worked an engineer had to get a warehouse man to move his desk or even his computer to a different location. Most of those Union rules are gone.
Hi Gary, great to hear from you again. Hope all is well, are you still down in SD area?
You have to realize that some of your comments are fairly foreign to myself who's not worked in a union environment. The entire concept of "voting" and "work rule changes" aren't even considered in most work environments. You get a job, you do processes as management tells you to do (within legal and OSHA limits of course). You don't like your job, you go find another one. The concept that employees just say no when they aren't happy with management is kind of ridiculous unless the change is really unreasonable.
I've heard stories of union shops where able-bodied and available people won't pick something up because that's not in their job description. That strikes me as quite bizarre.
You must remember the state of California is the largest employer in the state. Most of the workers have Unions that pretty much control everything about their jobs. Those in charge do as the Union says or they will learn what political power the Unions hold over the State legislators and governor. Unions like UAW have been neutered over the last 50 years. Even when I was in the CWA from 1961 to 70 it was a company Union. I watched my Teamster's union lose power over the 37 years I was working. They have lost a lot more over the last 11 years since I retired.
PS You are correct about stepping on someone else's toes. At RCA where I worked an engineer had to get a warehouse man to move his desk or even his computer to a different location. Most of those Union rules are gone.
Hi Gary, great to hear from you again. Hope all is well, are you still down in SD area?
Just in the process of moving to Pahrump NV. Loving it here. On a golf course with trees, ponds and grass I don't have to cut.
Now the UAW management is being caught with their corruption game out front. So they decide it's time to strike the hand that fed them for 10 years, keeping them in jobs instead of just going bankrupt and thereby eliminating all union contracts.
Or the govt could have eliminated the UAW stranglehold on US auto companies. But now the payback is strike to take attention away from the corruption.
Workers may lose by winning. If you look at some of the upcoming 2020 vehicles, many out of Detroit already seem to have a price disadvantage versus the transplants. Widening it more isn't going to add to their workforce. If they want more cash, they need to consider more flexible work rules on the plant floor.
The UAW does have lower wage workers as a result of the agreement when they were given GM ownership. I don't know how many benefits those people earn. But toyota and Honda and others likely have temporary workers in their factories here who make substantially less than the brand's own workers, who have little in the way of job rights.
However, the UAW workers are essentially hooked up for life.
Rocky is still pro-union, still pro-GM, but a lot has happened since I was a regular edmunds.com member but I plan to be more active. I have maintained contact with gagrice & lemko all these years but I am definitely getting back into cars again.
As you see, I'm driving my '14 Malibu LT2 with options other than NO sunroof. Love it. Taut riding. 18" wheels instead of 19" on LTZ. 49000 miles.
Have 15 Cruze that we bought less than 1 year old off rental that's an LT2 as well that son used til last March when he bought a Venza, since Chev and Buick deserted him in the sedan market.
Cruze turned 100K. Great small car. But the ride of the Malibu is nice for longer drives.
Rocky is still pro-union, still pro-GM, but a lot has happened since I was a regular edmunds.com member but I plan to be more active. I have maintained contact with gagrice & lemko all these years but I am definitely getting back into cars again.
@imidazol97 - The Cruze was a nice subcompact. Glad you have had good luck like I did with your two. My brother has a 2017 Malibu and has good luck with it. I had a 2014 2LT Diesel that would pull in the '50s and 60s MPG's often. I got a best 63.7 mpg's on a trip to Iowa. Then I swapped it for a 2017 model which was a nice sporty subcompact with a little better ride and interior quality. I tried to get a diesel but they didn't offer it in the Premier package that I wanted. The Cruze was fine when my kids were children but became cramped when they became teenagers on long road trips. So I swapped it this last time for the GMC Canyon Denali 4WD and it offers quite a bit more room and does much better in the snow. My daughter, Karlee wanted me to get a truck. Fun fact is the lease on my Canyon Denali (a vehicle that was nearly $17K more) I was able to lease for $2 bucks a month less than I did on the Cruze. I hope they get the chip thing straightened out by the time my lease is up. I am nearing the halfway point in my lease and hope to walk out of there next time paying similar money.
@iluvmysephia1 - Hello! It's been a minute. Sorry for the late response back! I promise to not wait so long. I will check in more often. I might re-engage in some old forums like this one and a few others.
@imidazol97 - A response to your 2019 post. The UAW workers back in the day had the hook-up. Most of the legacy workers hired in pre-2006 are few and far between. The last remaining GM plant in my area still employs my stepdad and aunt. My aunt will receive no pension or health benefits when she retires this next year. She was hired under the new two-tiered system and GM is no longer considered a great job. They pay below-market wages and have been hiring temp-hire workers for the last few years. Nobody wants to waste away their best years inside a grease pit with below-market pay and below-average benefits. The only good job left at GM is the skilled trades but they too will retire with only a 401K and no health benefits. The UAW like most legacy unions devolved into a corporate-friendly car union with a lot of black marks. A large number of non-union jobs in manufacturing pay as good, if not better and are treated better. No 2 out of 3 Saturday work weeks, and with the economy being what it is up here in Michigan, employers either kiss the rear of their workers or the employee will leave. Workers finally have some leverage on the employer and they are using it to gain better pay, benefits, hours, and in this pandemic, a lot of workers are working from home if their job allows it. My employer is losing a good customer service sales rep to an employer who offered her more money and the ability to work from home. The wear and tear on a vehicle and gas will save her literally thousands a year.
Comments
VW Toys With Giving Up the U.S. Mass Market, and Dealers Fume
One key quote that's right in line with my original comments:
Now, after aiming for the masses, VW would have trouble turning back to boutique status, Noble said. “They have already eroded their ability to charge premium prices. They don’t have a single product that people will pay a premium for.”
I wonder if such as VW decision would be more based on making it more difficult for the US and American diesel buyers and dealers to litigate instead?
The linking of Volkswagen’s dealings with the union to the highly embarrassing and potentially costly diesel emissions matter reflects the bitterness that now exists between the union and the employer it once viewed as a partner, said Maury Nicely, a Chattanooga lawyer who represents a group of Volkswagen workers who oppose the U.A.W.
“Clearly the gloves have come off,” Mr. Nicely said."
Volkswagen Reverses Course on Union at Tennessee Plant (NY Times)
Unless the deal made with the Feds on dieselgate include building the Golf EV in the USA. I never got the feeling the US management wanted the UAW. It was pressure from German unions. Now they have their hands full.
I'd like to send VW packing back to Europe.
Two high-ranking United Auto Workers Local 551 officials were shot outside the union hall in Hegewisch shortly after winning re-election to the executive board on Friday night.
UAW Local 551, which represents more than 4,200 workers at the Ford's Chicago Assembly Plant on the Calumet River, had just had an election and announced the results.
The man shot a 40-year-old man in the left leg and a 44-year-old man in the right leg, Lemmon said. They drove themselves to Franciscan St. Margaret Health hospital in Hammond, where they were in stable condition.
Lemmon said the suspect is not yet in custody, but police know who they're looking for.
Aaron "Hammer" Straker and Jeff "UAW" Bacon, who both were re-elected to the bargaining unit Friday, identified themselves on Facebook as the victims in the shooting.
http://www.nwitimes.com/business/local/two-high-ranking-uaw-officials-shot-after-union-election/article_ead2d128-d7f4-5c43-bce2-da7a783a5d9f.html
In Chicago shooting people is kind of the local sport anyway. Add that to UAW history and you are ripe for these sorts of things.
UAW says Volkswagen reneged on deal to recognize union (timesfreepress.com)
After the plant went silent for many years, and the city was able to get a Chinese company to use part of the space for auto glass, now the UAW is interested in their dues money.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Do you think the local attitudes are still strongly pro-union given the last 15 years or so, or has the attitude shifted?
One bone of contention over the voting was whether the votes of the interpreters would be included or not. They were allowed to cast tentative votes.
I see some people from the company management eating at some local restaurants at noon and note an air of superiority.
The UAW did lose 2-1 approximately. I am surprised the loss was so definite. But I believe many of the workers understand how the UAW threw the local workers, who were by heritage IBEW and another trade union under the SUV (what was built there before it closed), during negotiations with the gov't over being given stock in GM. I would have thought UAW would have supported the locals because they contributed a lot of hidden effort in elections in door-to-door and hidden campaign support for the party that favors unions.
I predict a revote after a year of more worker complaints over treatment. We'll see.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I've heard stories of union shops where able-bodied and available people won't pick something up because that's not in their job description. That strikes me as quite bizarre.
I doubt many of those stories. However, I was inside the Harrison plant near the location of this one decades ago and saw folks who had completed their production quota for the shift (!) and were lying on large wooden shipping crates stacked up and resting. I was stunned. Those were the good old days. The Harrison plant produced air conditioning compressors here.
We did observe that a shed roof that covered picnic tables at which workers ate or took breaks disappeared last week that was outside the factory building. Curious that the company took it down at this time.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
PS
You are correct about stepping on someone else's toes. At RCA where I worked an engineer had to get a warehouse man to move his desk or even his computer to a different location. Most of those Union rules are gone.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Nice to see and hear from you.
You've moved to Wyoming? LOL
How do you like the Cruze?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Or the govt could have eliminated the UAW stranglehold on US auto companies. But now the payback is strike to take attention away from the corruption.
Where is Jimmy Hoffa?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
However, the UAW workers are essentially hooked up for life.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
It's also weird how such unions aren't such an issue in legit first world locales.
Rocky is still pro-union, still pro-GM, but a lot has happened since I was a regular edmunds.com member but I plan to be more active. I have maintained contact with gagrice & lemko all these years but I am definitely getting back into cars again.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
Hi
Good to see you're back.
As you see, I'm driving my '14 Malibu LT2 with options other than
NO sunroof. Love it. Taut riding. 18" wheels instead of 19" on LTZ.
49000 miles.
Have 15 Cruze that we bought less than 1 year old off rental
that's an LT2 as well that son used til last March when he
bought a Venza, since Chev and Buick deserted him in the
sedan market.
Cruze turned 100K. Great small car. But the ride of the Malibu
is nice for longer drives.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
https://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/25/automobiles/autospecial/25social.html