Lease Questions - Ask Here

waltski · December 2004

Car_Man,

I think your feedback and general leasing information is OUTSTANDING..... just curious of your thoughts about this deal.... I have 10 months ( @ $425 per month) left on my '02 Merc Mountaineer ( which btw I LOVE) ...dealer says turn it in to me for a '05 Premier Merc Mountaineer ( $42, 500 sticker )and your payments will be $ 525 for 38 months....no $$$$ out of my pocket and this deal is in New York State

THANKS !!

Waltski

Rickster · December 2004

Do you know if Volvo has any promotional leases for the S40?

ajkl7476 · December 2004

Carman...
Thank you, yes I am fine. It was just a scrape along the side of the car, however the airbag deployed. I'd prefer to leave insurance out of it, but the cost of repairs is quite high, about $1600 (not including the airbag). Is it worth forking over that much to fix the car, plus coming up with more money for a down on another one? It seems it would be more cost efficient to drive the car I have now. Also, would telling the bank that it is in the condition it is now affect (negatively or positively) the purchase value? This is my first time leasing a car, and it's turning out to be a burden more than a blessing.

I really do appreciate your advice. It is interesting to see how everyone can have a different view of the same situation.

timmeineke · December 2004

I have a 39 month lease at 15,000 miles per year. I'm 18 months into the lease and to date have driven a grand total of 14,000 miles. Do I have any way to recapture these unused miles?

fordguy678 · December 2004

Car_man,
I dont mean to sound obnoctious but that lease is a train wreck, its horrible. you are paying about a 90 dollars a month too much for that vehicle with that type of down payment. A dealer will never give you a good price on their first offer, they are hoping you bite it and take it so they can laugh all the way to the bank. Tell him you want it for 410 a month with that down payment or there is no deal, and also tell him that other acura dealers offered you that price, hell do it.

forguy

gbeer · December 2004

Carman- Here's a strange question:
I've uncovered a situation where a more expensive option results in a lower residual.

Quote on a 4 yr, 15,000 mi/yr Basic '05 LS was $709/ mo including 8.25% tax ($655 no tax) and $1,200 drive off (Lexus motor credit). I was told this was $1,200 over invoice. Residual is $27,775.

I also priced the "modern luxury package w/ Nav , premium sound, keyless entery. The quote was $830/ mo. with tax and the residual was LESS, $27,196.

Question- How could this be? A lower residual for a more expensive $5,000 option? It's certainly contributing to the 17% higher payment.

Also- what are the lexus december to remember benefits for LS430 leases. I still owe 3 pmts on my current lease and would rather wait till Feb for a new car.
thanks,
gb

toyotroy · December 2004

gbeer-Actually your question is not that strange. The strange part is that the residual is LOWER. Most banks use what's called a Maximum Residual (MRM in dealerspeak)that protects them for the huge depreciation that usually occurs on options and accessories. It also gives you room to add some options of option packages as long as they or on the window sticker.

For example, let's say you have a Toyota Camry XLE V6 with a MSRP of $26,900 with a 46% residual on a 48 month lease and a MRM of $27,800.

What this means, in this example, is that the max residual that this bank show on your lease contract is $12,788 (46% of $27,900). So, if you were to add a $2,300 Navigation Package to this Camry the lease company will only residualize the fist $900 of the option and the remaining $1,400 goes 100% to your lease payment.

Your $121 difference in lease payment equals a total pay out over 48 months of $5808. It was look like the dealer is unable to residualize any of the $5000 NAV option.

I would just make sure that since the dealer told you that you were paying invoice + $1,200 for the vehicle that they are only adding the invoice cost (not retail cost) to your lease calculation.

I hope this helps.

TT

mathewsommers · December 2004

Car_Man,

Thanks! The dealer was adding a little on the MF and 300 on the acq cost. Thanks for the help.

A truly great resource, my compliments.

-Matt

gogiants · December 2004

Hi car man thanks as always for your expert advice. today received the following offer from No. Cal Audi dealer on a 2005 Audi A4 Special Edition 1.8CVT

MSRP 30,420
Cap Cost 29420
MF .00089
Residual 16,122
12K 42 mo lease
Payment w/tax = $400

what do you think? seems like this is a higher MF than the standard one also can I do better on the selling price for this vehicle. Appreciate your help trying to decide between BMW 325, Audi A4, and Volvo S60. All seem to have good lease deals just trying to get best deal possible.

2

CarMan@Edmunds · December 2004

I am glad to hear that you have learned so much from reading this discussion, baseballmom97. "Inception" and "Assignment" fees are not terms that I am all that familiar with. One of these fees, probably the assignment fee, may be the lease acquisition fee, aka bank fee, that is being levied by the bank that you are leasing this truck through. It appears as though your lease is being run through a bank other than Toyota Financial Services, so it is difficult for me to say exactly what its actual acquisition fee is. You are definitely entitled to an explanation to exactly what both of these fees are. If you don't feel comfortable with the explanation that you are given you can always walk away from this deal.

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CarMan@Edmunds · December 2004

Hey Lee. the capitalized cost that this lease is based upon looks good to me. The lease money factor that you are being charged looks reasonable as well. These are the two main areas that you as a consumer should focus on during your negotiations so you are in pretty good shape. The lease acquisition fee of $895 is a little on the high side, but some banks actually do have fees that are this high so it is difficult to say whether the dealer that you are working with is padding it or not.

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CarMan@Edmunds · December 2004

Here you go, gogiants. If you were to lease a 2005 Volvo S60 2.5T FWD through Volvo Finance right now for 36 months with 12,000 miles per year, its base lease money factor and residual value should be a very attractive .00002 and 56%, respectively.

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iphd · December 2004

I need some guidance! I got a quote that I feel is way too high for a lease on a Toyota 2005 LE V6 . Here is the deal proposed:

$450.00 a month for 60 months and 15k miles a year with $3000.00 down.

This is on top of a trade in on my 1997 Camry (with 99,000 miles). They will give me $3000.00, but I owe more than that on my payments.

Does this seem high for a lease on a Camry? Please advise...

CarMan@Edmunds · December 2004

Hi wyoung. Here is the information that you are looking for. If you were to lease a 2005 Honda Odyssey EXL without NAV and without RES through American Honda Finance Corp. right now for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00250 and 62%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical lease with only 12,000 miles per year should be .00250 and 64%.

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CarMan@Edmunds · December 2004

You're welcome, apothny. Each state has its own tax laws so I usually have a hard time commenting about the tax that consumers have to pay on leased vehicles. You will not be refunded any sales tax if your vehicle is totaled in an accident or stolen if you pay it all in advance, so if your state allows you to pay tax on your vehicle's monthly payment instead of all at once there certainly is an advantage to doing so. Just make sure that you are not rolling the sales tax that you have to pay into your vehicle's capitalized cost. Doing so will force you to pay interest on it.

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CarMan@Edmunds · December 2004

The Porsche Cayenne definitely is an expensive vehicle to lease, koberry. Now is an excellent time to lease a Lexus because it is providing lease support on most of its models for its "December to Remember" sales event. I believe that Lexus Financial Services' current residual value for a 3 year, 12,000 miles per lease of a 2005 RX 330 4WD without navigation and without the rear entertainment system is 59%. It is difficult to say why you were told a different number. Its base lease money factor for this lease is currently .00165, and it even lower than this in some areas. The only reasons why the money factor for this truck would be higher are if you were to have your security deposit or acquisition fee waived or if the dealer is marking-up LFS' base factor to add additional profit to your deal. If you pay the charges that you mentioned, the doc fee and the license fee, at lease signing then they definitely should not be included in this truck's capitalized cost. $1,250 over invoice is not too bad for this truck, but it never hurts to try to shop around a little to see if you can do better.

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bigblueindy · December 2004

Hi, Carman. I would like your help on a 2005 Honda Pilot EX-L lease.

MSRP 32,635
Sale Price 29,409
36 Month/12 K miles

Can you give me an estimate on monthly payment, along with residual and MF? Thanks for your help.

evguenir · December 2004

Hi Carman. You said it's a great time to lease a Lexus. Could you give me some idea about MF and residual value on a RX330 2WD with navigation and no rear entertainment system for 48 mos and 12,000 miles? Thank you

ashwen · December 2004

Looking to find a deal on a 2004 Nissan Murano SE FWD. Car_Man could you please give us the MF and RV for a 36 month and 39 month lease with 12K and 15K miles? Also, I see that Nissan is offering $1500 cash back in lieu of financing. Would I be able to use this $1500 towards a lease?

Thanks.

leeshuck · December 2004

Thanks for the info, jlnjz!

Lee

koberry · December 2004

Hi Car_man:

I appreciate your help on the RX330 lease. One last thing... I currently am nearing the end of a 39 mo lease on an RX300.

LFS says my payoff is $24640.97, while Edmunds says at trade-in it's worth $24232 and KBB states 26255. I'm certainly not upside down and there may be some equity in the vehicle. Dealers in my area are marketing certified 2002 RX300's at ~$31k.

I know you feel strongly that leasors should not make a cap cost reduction. Rather than attempt to sell on the open market (lazy), I'd prefer to attempt to negotiate a lease buyout as end of year pressure increases on dealers. If there's any equity at all, what should I do? Use it as a cap cost reduction? Use it to cover drive-off fees? Buy myself lunch? ;-)

Thanks,

Ken

2002 RX300 Lease:
Payoff: 24640.97, quote good thru 12/31/04

Edmunds
trade-in: 24232
private party: 25841
retail: $28771
certified: 31629

KBB
trade-in: 26255
private party: 28995
retail: $30,300

CarMan@Edmunds · December 2004

You're welcome joeyproulx. I used a lease money factor of .00149 and a residual value of 62% to arrive at the 3 year, 36,000 mi. payment that I worked up for you.

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CarMan@Edmunds · December 2004

Thanks for taking the time to share the details of your lease, jlnjz. Enjoy your new car!

Car_man
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koberry · December 2004

Hi Car_man:

If I'm unsuccessful in getting the dealer to remove fees from the cap cost calculation, should those fees be residualized too? Or only included in the cap cost? Am trying to improve my spreadheet model for leases so I can more easily compare offers across dealers...

Thanks!

Ken

CarMan@Edmunds · December 2004

No problem, Lawrence. Holy Toledo, $1000 a month to lease an Acura RL?!?!?!?! I know that this car was recently redesigned and that you don't want to put any money down, but does this dealer realize that not that long ago this car was $499 per month? I think that this car should be more along the lines of $800 or so per month at full MSRP for a typical 3 year lease. Acura dealers are allowed to mark up American Honda Finance Corp.'s base lease money factors. It is possible that the dealer that you are working with is doing so.

I am not familiar with the lease calculators that are available on the web site that you mentioned, but I have used the ones that are available here at Edmunds.com, Basic Lease Calculator. You also should be able to calculate lease payments on your own by using the formula that is outlined in the following article: Calculate Your Own Lease Payment.

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CarMan@Edmunds · December 2004

Here is the exact information that you are looking for, andre1. If you were to lease a 2005 Honda Pilot EXL/RES through American Honda Finance Corp. right now for 36 months with 15,000 miles per year, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00149 and 60%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical 39 month lease of this truck (I have not seen its 42 month numbers) should be .00149 and 57%.

If you were to lease a 2005 Volvo XC90 T6 through Volvo Finance right now for 36 months with 15,000 miles per year, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00134 and 59%. The numbers for an otherwise identical 42 month lease of this vehicle should be .00159 and 54%.

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CarMan@Edmunds · December 2004

No problem, Lee. Surprisingly, BMW actually still does have a little lease support available on 2004 M3 Convertibles. It is providing a base lease money factor of .00140 for leases of up to 42 months in length on this car. This is equivalent to an interest rate of around 3.36%.

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CarMan@Edmunds · December 2004

You're welcome, ashwen. Let me know if you have any other questions.

Car_man
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CarMan@Edmunds · December 2004

I sure can, ashwen. You are absolutely correct, the money factor is indeed .00215 and the residual value is 55%. Very impressive.

Car_man
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CarMan@Edmunds · December 2004

Quick answer, kyfdx

: .00125 / 60%.

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CarMan@Edmunds · December 2004

You're very welcome, motwani. Let's work up a sample lease payment on the car that you are interested in based on the numbers that you have mentioned in your posts and see what we come up with. According to my calculations, if you were to lease a 2005 Acura TL with navigation with an MSRP of $35,500 and a selling price of $34,697 through American Honda Finance Corp. right now for 39 months with 12,000 miles per year (I have not seen this car's 42 month lease program), your zero down, pre-tax monthly payment should be around $509. As you can see this is actually pretty close to the payment that you were quoted to lease this car for 42 months. With the above lease, you would have to pay your vehicle's first month's payment of $509, a security deposit equivalent to that payment rounded up to the nearest $50 increment which is $550, and AHFC's lease acquisition fee of $595 (it is higher in NY) at lease signing for a total of $1554. There is still probably around a $2,000 difference between the price that you are paying and dealer invoice so you should focus your negotiations on trying to get this car for a lower selling price, if possible.

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CarMan@Edmunds · December 2004

Greetings csf97. I would be more than happy to calculate sample lease payments on these cars for you, however you never mentioned their full MSRPs. This is an important number for you as a consumer to know for two reasons. First, the selling prices of leased vehicles can be negotiated, just as if you were paying cash
for them. Without knowing these cars' MSRPs it is difficult to tell how much of a discount you are receiving. The second reason is that one needs the MSRPs of the vehicles that they want to lease is that they are necessary to calculate their lease payments. If you tell me these cars' MSRPs I will work up some payments for you. Talk to you soon.

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CarMan@Edmunds · December 2004

Hi davesand. GMAC's SmartBuy program is what is known in the industry as a balloon note. Balloon notes are very similar to leases in that they provide consumers with low monthly payments with an option to purchase their vehicle at the end of a specific period of time. The main difference between leases and balloon notes is that with leases the bank's name is on the title, while with balloon notes yours is. Many banks have started offering balloon notes to consumers instead of leases in states that have vicarious liability laws so that they do not leave themselves open to potential lawsuits. There should not be much of a difference at the end of your term between a SmartLease and a SmartBuy.

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joeyproulx · December 2004

BIGBLUEINDY -

I just asked CarMan this very question two days ago. His responses:

---
Let's work up a sample lease payment on this truck for you, joeyproulx, and see what we come up with. According to my calculations, if you were to lease a 2005 Honda Pilot EX with leather, no DVD/Navi with an MSRP of $32,635 and a selling price of $29,409 through American Honda Finance Corp. this month for 3 years with 12,000 miles per, its zero down, pre-tax monthly lease payment should be right around $312.

I used a lease money factor of .00149 and a residual value of 62% to arrive at the 3 year, 36,000 mi. payment that I worked up for you.
---

Hope that helps you and CarMan

CarMan@Edmunds · December 2004

Thanks for the additional information, csf97 (and thanks for asking for it kyfdx;)). OK, if you were to lease a 2005 Honda Accord EX V6 w/Navi with an MSRP of $29,215 and a selling price of $27,762 through American Honda Finance Corp. right now for 3 years with 12,000 miles per, its zero down, pre-tax monthly payment should be around $417. The payment for an otherwise identical lease of a Accord EX V6 with an MSRP of $27,015 and a selling price of $25,779 should be around $389.

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CarMan@Edmunds · December 2004

Thanks for the additional information, lycanthris. Let's see if we can work up a couple of sample lease payments on these cars for you. According to my calculations, if you were to lease a 2005 Audi S4 Sedan with an MSRP of $52,000 and a selling price of $49,500 through Audi Financial Services right now for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, your zero down, pre-tax monthly payment should be around $624. At lease signing, you would have to pay your first month's payment, a security deposit that is equivalent to that payment rounded up to the nearest $25 or $50 increment, AFS' lease acquisition fee of $575 (higher in NY), and any required taxes.

If you were to lease a 2005 Infiniti G35 2WD Sedan with an MSRP of $35,700 and a selling price of $32,700 through Infiniti Financial Services right now for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, its zero down, pre-tax monthly lease payment should be around $448. At lease signing, you would have to pay this car's first month's payment, a security deposit equivalent to that payment rounded up to the nearest $25 or $50 increment, IFS' lease acquisition fee of $550 (higher in NY), and any required taxes.

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CarMan@Edmunds · December 2004

I am glad to hear that you enjoy this discussion so much, Waltski. Generally speaking, it is not a good idea for consumers to get out of their leases well before their scheduled end dates. Unless they are leasing their vehicle through a captive finance company and its manufacturer is running some sort of early lease termination program, it will be almost always be very expensive to get out of a leased vehicle early. In order for you to do so, you would either have to make this truck's remaining payments or purchase it from the bank that you are leasing it through at a price that it likely higher than its current value and then trade it in. If Mercury is not running some sort of official early lease termination program, you will end up paying much more for your new Mountaineer than you should be and would be better off waiting until the scheduled end of your current lease.

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CarMan@Edmunds · December 2004

Yes, Rickster, Volvo is currently running a special lease program on the 2005 S40.

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CarMan@Edmunds · December 2004

I am glad to hear that everyone is OK. The problem with fixing your vehicle and keeping it is that even if the the shop that you take your car to does an excellent job with the repairs it will still be worth less than an otherwise identical car that has never been in an accident. As a result, you would be better off fixing this car, either by paying out of your own pocket or by using your insurance coverage, and then turning it in to the bank that you are leasing it through at the end of your lease. As long as it has been repaired properly, the bank will have to take the hit for the diminished value and not you. This is actually one of the major advantages of leasing.

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CarMan@Edmunds · December 2004

I am sorry to say, timmeineke, that banks do not provide their lessees with a refund for unused mileage. Perhaps you can take your car on a long trip to eat up some of your unused miles.

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chubby4 · December 2004

First off, is the Base MF an impossible rate to get if you don't have absolutely spotless credit, or should a person with decent to good credit be able to get that rate?

Second, I put together some numbers let me know if they sound right/reasonable:
2005 BMW 325i
MSRP $34115
INVOICE (WITH DESTINATION) $31270
CAP COST $32300
BASE MF .0008
RESIDUAL 58%
PAYMENT $413.54
AFTER TAX (6%) $438.36
Sound reasonable?

Lastly, is the destination cost the same as the aquisition cost, should I expect to pay both, etc. Thanks and sorry for so many questions.

leeshuck · December 2004

Thanks again Car_man,

Once again you seem to know more than the dealer representative - do you have the residuals for 36 months 15k mi/yr and 42 mos 15k mi/yr?

I also noticed some posts here stating that some options can reduce the residual - navigation system was one example. Is that true for BMW in general or just specific BMW Models (330Ci or M3 for example)? What other options would typically reduce the residual?

Lee

leeshuck · December 2004

Hi Car_man,

What can I expect to pay when purchasing additional miles at lease inception?

Do you have any numbers for BMW, Audi, Volvo or Infiniti?

If I find that I'm going over the limit during the lease, is there a way to purchase at that time, and what would I expect to pay?

Thanks,

Lee

leeshuck · December 2004

Hi Car_man,

I just found that I can purchase a 2005 (or 2004) Infiniti through Nisaan's VPP program for friends of employees. This allows me to acquire an Infiniti G35 Coupe below invoice price. I like the 2005 models a little better than 2004 models. I believe there are no incentives or lease specials for 2005 year models.

What would be my best option for leasing a 2005 (or 2004?) Infiniti G35 Coupe - going with a third party lease company or Infiniti's lease program?

What are the 2004/2005 rates and residuals on the G35 Coupes for 36mos/15k miles/yr or 42 mos 15k miles/yr?

Thanks,

Lee

kyfdx · December 2004

chubby4..

Using your figures, I get $390 + tax..

Destination is part of the MSRP, and should be part of your negotiated price.. It should never be an extra charge in addition to the negotiated price of the car..

Acquisition fee is a fee charged by the bank that is providing the lease.

chubby4 · December 2004

Also, forgot to mention thats for a 36mo/15k a year lease. I still can't get it down to $390 though, don't know what I'm doing wrong calculations wise. Lastly, should I/will I be able to get the .0008 rate or am I being unreasonable with my figures? Thanks.

kyfdx · December 2004

Yeah.. I just went with the numbers you posted.. they look correct.. except for the resulting payment..

kyfdx
(not the expert)

smbass · December 2004

Car Man,

I've been following your postings re: the 2005 Saab 93 Sedans. Is the money factor and residual value the same for a convertible? If not, could you please provide the money factor and residual value % for a 2005 Saab 93 Arc Convertible for a 3 year/15k mile lease? In addition, are there any dealer cash incentives on this vehicle?

Thanks so much!

CSF · December 2004

Thank you Car_Man for the sample monthly payments on the Accords.

We are coming off a great lease on a 2002 Acura TL in February. The new TL's are not in our price range anymore. Since you know all the leasing specials out there, what vehicle would you recommend we take a look at for a monthly payment of around $375/mo.? We would consider another family sedan or a small SUV.

Thanks, csf97

b21 · December 2004

i'm 55K miles OVER on a leased vehicle. the dealer is saying I will have to work out a payoff with Ford Credit. Ford Credit is saying the dealer is responsible for paying off the mileage penalty. Is there a way reduce the penalty or avoid it being added to the price of my new leased vehicle?

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