Lease Questions - Ask Here

qbrozen · December 2004

what is your buyout and what is the vehicle worth as a trade in? The difference in those numbers might be less than the money you'd owe for miles. If it is, then you just need to buy it and sell it privately or trade it in and eat the difference.

andre1 · December 2004

Car_Man,
Thanks for all your assistance on the SUV lease numbers I requested (we decided on the Acura MDX). Now I'm looking to replace my second car with a FUN car! Please provide the December lease numbers (money factor, residual) for 24 and 36 months (15,000 miles a year) on the following. Thanks again!

2005 Ford Mustang GT Premium
2005 Chrysler 300C RWD
2005 Dodge Magnum RT RWD

mtgman · December 2004

Car Man,
Can you provide me with the money factor and residual values for a 3yr , 12,000 miles/yr?
I think there is a $7000 rebate.
At this point the dealer is selling the car for $34,037 with MSRP of $44,285. He is calling me back with money factor, resid, pmts, etc.
thanks for your help

CSF · December 2004

Hey Car_Man,

Should've mentioned we need at least 12,000 miles a year and would consider either 36 or 42 month deals.

csf97

massjake · December 2004

joeyproulx, Thanks for the info. I gave Peters a call and got a price of $302. for the LX, taxes included, with $0. down. Wonder if they added the dreaded DOC fee? I think I'll call. By the way, they quoted $329. for the EX cloth with MA. tax included.

mtgman · December 2004

Ok,
the dealer is offering the following
msrp $43750

mtgman · December 2004

I accidently hit a wrong key

msrp $43,750
can buy for $34,037
12,000/yr
36 months
residu .39
money factor .00001
zero down

he's telling me pmt of $522/mo
What's your thought?

CarMan@Edmunds · December 2004

Hi gbeer. Vehicles that are equipped with expensive options, like navigation, or expensive options packages often have lower residual values than otherwise equivalent vehicles without these options. This is because in the experience of many banks, off lease vehicles with these options or options packages do not retain as high a percentage of their original cost as otherwise identical vehicles without these options.

Lexus is providing support on the normally unsupported LS 430 through its "December to Remember" program. Its special lease money factor on this car is currently .00165 for 3 to 4 year leases. This is a drop of .00040 (equivalent to around 1%) from the standard money factor that one would have had to use if they were to lease a 2005 LS 430 through LFS last month. It is difficult to say what Lexus' February lease program will be like on this car. If I was in the market for one, I personally would not lease it with three more months remaining on my current lease. Lexus' lease program on the LS 430 may not be all that different in a couple of months, and even if it is, it probably will not be different enough to justify wasting at least a thousand dollars to terminate your current lease early.

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CarMan@Edmunds · December 2004

No problem, Matt. I am glad that you have found this discussion to helpful.

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CarMan@Edmunds · December 2004

You're welcome, gogiants. Since you mentioned Northern California in your post, I take it that your user ID is referring to the San Francisco Giants rather than the New York football Giants. Barry Bonds sure has been in the news a lot lately. Yikes. As far as your car goes, Audi Financial Services' current base lease money factor for the 2005 A4 1.8T sedan without quattro is .00069. Normally I would think that the reason why you were quoted a higher number than this is because your car's security deposit is being waived, but Audi is waiving its lease security deposit requirement for all '05 A4 models for free this month. So unless you are having AFS' lease acquisition fee waived, the dealer that you are working with may be padding this car's money factor a little bit. At only $1,000 below MSRP I would not be surprised if you could get the dealer that you are working with to come down another couple hundred dollars on the price, but I am not personally all that familiar with what the market is like for this car in your neck of the woods, so you may want to stop by the A4 discussion in the "Prices Paid" Forum to see how much others have paid for this car lately.

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CarMan@Edmunds · December 2004

Hi iphd. Sixty months is WAY too long to lease anything for. Toyota's special lease money factors usually are only available for leases of up to 36 months in length. If you lease a supported model for any longer than that you are throwing money away by paying a higher interest rate than you should be. Furthermore, a lot can happen during the course of 5 years that could cause you to regret having signed such a long lease. Your family situation could change causing you to need a larger vehicle, your commute to work could increase, etc... The last thing that you want to do is have to spend a ton of money to get out of a lease well before its scheduled end. Lastly, Toyotas only come standard with a 3 year / 36,000 mile basic warranty. If you were to lease this car for 5 years, you would have to pay for any necessary repairs out of your own pocket for the last two years or possibly face a lease-end penalty for excess wear and tear.

As you can see, I definitely do not think that it is in your best interest to sign this lease and I haven't even gotten to how it is never a good idea to make a down payment when leasing.

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Rickster · December 2004

Thank you Car_man.

That's interesting, because the dealer is now suggesting leasing through USBank instead. Know anything about their leases? They are suggesting a 39 month lease with a 36 month residual (which works out to about 11k annual miles). Also, they don't have a security deposit but do have a fee at the end of the lease.

What to make of this?

They are giving me a very good deal on a S40 T5, I just need to sort out the leasing.

chubby4 · December 2004

Is the Base MF an impossible rate to get if you don't have absolutely spotless credit, or should a person with decent to good credit be able to get that rate? I.E. - the .0008 December rate on a BMW 325i. Thanks.

guest · December 2004

Thanks so much for your response Car_man....I had a bad feeling about this deal, and your answers confirmed it.

I am also upset because NOT ONLY would we have to put a down payment, we were ALSO going to do a trade in.

Thanks again for taking the time....

supersizeme · December 2004

Howdy,

Here's the scenario:

Woman graduates college and gets a leased Toyota Corolla from Dad. Title is in his name, car is registered to her through state tags. He receives the bills and makes the monthly payments from another state.

Fast forward two years... Car still has two years left on lease. Dad and woman no longer have a relationship. Woman wants to unload car without interacting with Dad. What is woman to do? Can woman just remove tags and leave on dealership lot?

Thanks for any suggestions you might have!

supersizeme · December 2004

Followup... the registration/tags are also in Dad's name. Title and registration in one state, he lives and pays from another.

kyfdx · December 2004

Is he still paying for the car..even though no relationship?

briegel · December 2004

What a sad situation! And I mean a Dad/Daughter relationship that has degenerated to this!

supersizeme · December 2004

As far as we know, he is.

supersizeme · December 2004

Actually, it's not sad at all. Physical and mental abuse has stopped along with the relationship.

briegel · December 2004

It is still sad, but I hope that is the positive aspect that will make for a better future! I'm sorry to hear about the abuse.

kyfdx · December 2004

1) If the lease is in his name.. just keep it.. in the garage.. on the street.. anywhere... If he stops paying for it, they will come get it.. Either way, it shouldn't affect daughter's credit or anything else... DON'T just drop it off at the dealer. They have nothing to do with the car.. it is owned by the bank.. anything could happen to it there.. When the lease is up, then call the leasing company and tell them where to get it.

2) Drop it off in his driveway.. middle of the night, when he's at work.. whenever...

3) Suck it up.. tell him you don't want the car, and are bringing it back to him.. (this is my choice, can you tell?)

regards,
kyfdx

supersizeme · December 2004

Option two has been my choice. In fact I suggested parking it behind Dad's car and locking the keys inside and taking a train home. However woman is concerned with avoiding interaction, conflict, and violence (whereas I'm spiteful) either at the time of drop-off or at a later date and is opposed to #2 and #3.

Thanks for letting us know the dealership is out of the loop on this.

kyfdx · December 2004

I understand..

Option (1) will work... As long as he is making the payments, you've got nothing to lose.. If he quits making the payments, they will come get the car, so make sure you don't leave anything in it that is important or valuable....

You can't cut the ties that bind, without facing up to it.. No matter what has gone on before, being vindictive will serve no purpose in the long run.. If she really wants to cutoff all contact, don't do anything rash.. (lecture over)

regards,
kyfdx

P.S.: I know she doesn't want any contact.. but doing something that might affect his credit or just dumping the car in some parking lot to be vandalized might incite the same type of confrontation she is looking to avoid.

darknight1 · December 2004

Greetings!

I am new to the leasing game and I'm trying to understand the open-ended lease I've been offered and see if it's a good deal.

The numbers don't seem to add up using the calculators I've found on the web. It looks like they're calculating the residual value as a straight percentage of the capitalized cost -- I thought MSRP was involved?

Is this a good deal in today's market?

Thanks!

----
2004 Infiniti G35 Sedan w/ Navi & Premium Pkg
MSRP: $36000
Capitalized Cost: $32,800
License fee: $85
Administration fee: $12.50
Total required at delivery: $730.00 + taxes

Local/State Sales Tax is NOT capitalized.
Depreciation reserve @ 1.5%: $491.76
Monthly Lease Charge @ 5.0%: $140.74
Monthly Lease Total: $632.50 / 36 Months
Residual value @ 36 months: $15080.64

upndwn · December 2004

I am impressed with the many posts of kyfdx and the good advice in them to you and throughout the board.

But, I have to ask what you mean by "title is in his name?" Title to a leased vehicle usually is held by the leasing company, they own it after all.

Do you mean that he is the only one on the lease agreement? In any event, there is still the issue of the registration. If the mv is registered in her name in her state, don't the property tax bills get sent to her? If not, the lease company pays the property tax and invoices Dad or includes the charges in the monthly lease payments. Would she not be exposed to these charges if he failed to make the payments as the registered ???, (I can't imagine what she is registered as. She is not the lessee or the owner, but she is the individual on the state's rolls associated with the vehicle?). Her state would look to her if the taxes are not paid, and I suppose a municipality would too if there are municipal taxes in her state.

Bottom line, I think there is some risk to just ignoring the automobile because there is no closure. It would seem that there has to be some contact or the issue will remain open, only to come to a head when the lease is up or sooner if he stops paying. At lease end, Dad would probably be in touch about return of the mv. So, contact is inevitable. Even if he wanted to allow her to keep possession, he would need to pay the residual value or lease balloon and then arrange for her to receive the title.

Surely, the issue is not vehicle, but the relationship. Use of the vehicle, despite any emotional or moral debts due woman from Dad on other accounts or the fact that the vehicle reminds her of what makes her feel bitter, is still a gift.

I think she is best advised to arrange the return of the vehicle directly or through a 3rd party. Use a lawyer if you have to completely avoid direct contact, but make a clean break. There could be new cause for animosity from either side if the return of the leased mv is done badly.

Good luck.

stridor · December 2004

I am seriously close to leasing a Mazda6, I was out test driving on the weekend and the friendly salesperson who was assisting me started explaining what "he" does while leasing, some of which I found quite unbelievable, perhaps someone here can tell me if there's any validity with what he's saying.

He tells me that because most leases are 12,000 miles/year, for many people including him this isn't enough. What he does is trade in the car sometime within his lease period, for example, month 24-36 within a 48 month lease and he enters a new lease. He says that if you enter a 48 month lease at 12k miles/year, that's 48,000 miles allowance for the lease period. Say he is nearing 48,000 at the beginning of year three of the lease, he'll trade it in before he goes over the limit and he is not penalized because he's entering a new lease. I thought though that if you did that, the leasing company would charge for miles. Don't they charge per year? So you've only be allowed 24,000 for two years used (if you returned it within that time). Is that not the case? Is there truth in what he's saying? Because if so it sounds too good to be true. Enter a 48 month lease, have lower monthly payments, and have a sooner car turn around without penalty for more miles driven.. Surely that can't be the case? When I asked him about that he says that's how it is with Mazda and Nissan leases. What do you think about this?

Phew, got through that, I hope I'm fairly clear. Thanks very much for your insight.

corvette · December 2004

Did someone mention revenge? If her name isn't on the lease agreement:

Drive the snot out of the car for the next two years. Mile it up. Scrape some wheels. Rip up the interior. Don't do any maintenance. Be creative!

Not that I would advocate such a thing, and yes, there could be consequences...

big_sb · December 2004

The car is a black, automatic, sunroof package, and CD Changer. MSRP is $33570. This is the deal that is on the table. I think there is a lot more room to wiggle here, based on the info I've read on this forum. But I don't know where. The res looks high and I would think they could come down more than $2k off the msrp.

MSRP: $33,570
Sale Price: $31,250
Cap Reduction: $384.19 (I want this to be 0)
Fees: $1615.81 (256 dmv + hidden bank/other fees)
Total required at delivery: $2000.00
Residual: 60%
Mileage: 12,000 /year
Rate Factor: 39 month .00225
Monthly Payment: $389.74 + 30.20 tax = $419.94

Salesperson claims the dealership is losing money on this deal. I believe he's misinformed. Please help. Thanks!

happyfrank · December 2004

Hello,

Numerous posts include a reference that GMAC Leases use lease rates which can be converted to an "approximate" money factor to calculate the rent charge. But i haven't seen any posts about where to find the actual money factor. Or how to use the lease rate quoted on my contract to calculate the Rent Charge.

I have heard that GMAC doesn't use the money factor algorithm, but what do they use then? I tried the both the money factor algorithm and the exact lease equation that the money factor algorithm is derived from.
([A*R(1+R)^T]-[FR]) / [(1+R)^T] :: exact
and
([A-F]/T) + (A+F)*M :: money factor

where F=Residual Value,M = money factor,T = term in months,R=monthly interest rate,A=AmtFinanced.

The monthly payment i am being charged is right inbetween the value i get from these 2 equations.

When i look for differences in my math, it always ends up that their Rent Charge is higher then what my calculations get so i am assuming it has to do with the difference between the actual Money Factor and the one i use from the lease rate.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, I have sent an email to GMAC through their website to see what they tell me but i haven't heard back yet.

Thanks.

bigbutr · December 2004

The mileage factor only comes into play when you are about to reach your limit, not the time it took you to put it on there. If you leased something for three years and got 36,000 miles, if you put 30,000 on the car the first year, you better hope you have something else to drive.
What the salesperson is doing is about the same as financing a car for five years, then trading it in year three. That is, still owing more on it than it is worth, then rolling that into a new deal. The only way it would work is that he agrees to a ridiculously low residual, resulting in higher payments, so that if he was to trade it in with a 12-18 months left, the difference in what he still owed and what it was worth would be negligible. (To trade in a leased vehicle, you take residual and add remaining payments for payoff)
But I doubt that is what he, or anyone else is doing, because higher payments defeats the purpose of leasing since it is marketed as more car for lower payments. Not to mention every dealer will tell you 'their' vehicles hold their value.
If he says he's done this a lot, I would ask him how he's managing to not roll a ton of negative equity into his next car, because that's what it sounds to me what he's doing.
Just my two cents, since I was burned by the same speech (pre-Edmunds afficianado) when I tried to trade my 2000 Mitsubishi Montero Sport (60 month lease) in the fourth year and found I owed about $6,000 more on it than it was listed in KBB.

massjake · December 2004

Car_man, I've recently been in touch with a Honda dealer via email and telephone about a lease on a 2005 Pilot LX. Here are the specifics:
12,000 mile per year lease
$0. down
No DOC fee
36 month
$302. per month, includes 1st month payment and MA. sales tax.
No security deposit.
The salesperson informed me that the lease price was based on $24,032. Is this B.S.? I gave these figures to a Honda dealer closer to my home to see if he could compete and he nearly fainted. He started accusing the first dealer of all kinds of dirty tricks saying that HE can't even buy the Pilot for this figure. What do you think?

brodway · December 2004

Dear Car Man..

I wanted to thank you for all the great advice you provided. It has enabled me to finalize a lease deal that i would have never imagined i could accomplish without the knowledge i had gained through this forum.

As per your advice, i had informed the dealer that i no longer wanted to use the vehicle i was trading in to lower the cap cost. Instead i would prefer to get a check up front for the my vehicle and absorb the higher lease payments.

The dealer said ok to this, as it didn't have an impact on his bottom line, but had also suggested another alternative. I could use a portion of the money as security deposit and bring down my money factor considerably. Spefically, by putting down 2800 out of the 3450 of the proceeds of the trade in, my money factor went down to .00082 or 1.9%

I chose this option for two reasons. First $650 of the $3450 was used up front as first month payment and motor vehicle registration for 42 months (4 year up front is now mandatory in NJ).

Second, i now had leased the vehicle with no money down (the security deposit is fully refundable at lease end) and my payments that were quoted at $389 all in (taxes, lease acquisition fees and all other fees included) or $300 with my vehicle ($3,450) as a cap cost reducer came down to $350 per month.

Let me know if i did the right thing...i'm providing the specifics again.

MSRP 36,230
G35X with premium package, wood trim, trunk mat and mud guards.
selling price was $31,375
residual is $19976 (55%)
money factor came down to .00082
$2,800 fully refundable security deposit.
42 months...no money down except the motor vehicle fees and first month payment.

I drove away with the car very happy, as i've never imagined i can drive a car of this class for this kind of money.

If there's something i missed, i would apprecciate your input...for next time.

vkj · December 2004

i am particularly interested in 10k yearly leases. thanks.

pdurant · December 2004

Hey CarMan,

Could you please provide me with the Money Factor and Residual on a 2005 Acura TL without Nav for 48 Months/15k Year?

Thanks for your help and all of the time you put into this forum!

stevation · December 2004

I am interested in leasing the new '05 Nissan Pathfinder, but I found some horror stories online about how badly people were treated when turning in their Nissans at lease end. Dealers not wanting to take them back, making them late turning them in, charging repossession fees because they were late, charging large amounts for minor wear and tear, etc. However, these stories were old -- dating back a few years. What is the recent experience with Nissan -- are they dealing fairly with you when you return a vehicle? Have they improved their customer service and integrity? Thanks for the help!

nadeem · December 2004

Hello,

Am about to lease an XC 70. Any thoughts would be great!.

1. I negotiate cost before discussing lease-correct?
2. is it standard to role yearly EXCISE tax into lease?
3. Is it standard to role title fee, registration etc. into lease?

Thanks

Nadeem

CarMan@Edmunds · December 2004

Here you go bigblueindy. According to my calculations, if you were to lease a 2005 Honda Pilot EX-L with an MSRP of $32,635 and a selling price of $29,409 through American Honda Finance Corp. right now for 3 years with 12,000 miles per, your zero down, pre-tax monthly payment should be around $329.

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CarMan@Edmunds · December 2004

It certainly is a very good time to lease a new Lexus, evguenir. If you were to lease a 2005 Lexus RX 330 2WD with navigation and no rear entertainment system through Lexus Financial Services right now for 48 months with 12,000 miles per year, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00165 and 47%, respectively. This truck's lease money factor is slightly lower than this in select areas.

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CarMan@Edmunds · December 2004

Here is the information that you are looking for, ashwen. If you were to lease a 2004 Nissan Murano SE FWD through Nissan Motor Acceptance Corp. right now for 36 months with 15,000 miles per year, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00165 and 54%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical 39 month lease should be .00165 and 53%. If you were to lease it with only 12,000 miles per year, its residual values would be 1% higher. Unfortunately, the $1,500 customer cash that Nissan is providing on this model is not compatible with leases through NMAC.

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CarMan@Edmunds · December 2004

You're welcome, Ken. The lease-end selling price of your current vehicle is set by the bank that you are leasing it through and dealers have not authority to alter it. If you feel as though you may want to purchase your current vehicle at the end of your lease, you need to place a call to the bank that you are leasing it through to see exactly how much money it will cost to do so. When you make your call, keep in mind that some banks will occasionally negotiate the purchase prices of leased vehicles. More often than not this is not the case, but it's worth a shot. If your initial contact is not willing to work with you, you may be able to get better results by working your way up the corporate ladder a rung. Again, they probably will not budge on your vehicle's price but you don't have anything to lose by asking. Once you know how much it will cost you to purchase your vehicle, compare that figure to the amount of money that dealers are willing to give you for it. If you are set on trading your vehicle in and are actually able to get more money for it than it will cost to purchase it at the end of your lease, which is unlikely, have the dealer that you trade it in to cut you a check for it rather than use it as a down payment for your lease.

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CarMan@Edmunds · December 2004

Ken, any fees that you do not want to pay out of your pocket at lease signing must be added to your car or truck's capitalized cost and can not be residualized. The only exception to this is your vehicle's destination charge, which is treated as part of its price and may be added to its MSRP when calculating your lease payment.

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CarMan@Edmunds · December 2004

Thanks joeyproulx

.

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CarMan@Edmunds · December 2004

Hi chubby4. All of the money factors that I provide community members with in this discussion are the lowest ones that are available from manufacturers' captive finance companies. The exact credit rating that is necessary to qualify for them will vary from bank to bank. Some captive finance companies only have one special rate that consumers either qualify for or they don't. Other banks have a tiered rate structure with different money factors depending upon what one's credit score is. BMW Financial Services is one of the banks that has only one special money factor.

I would be more than happy to double check your calculations for you, however you never mentioned how long this lease is for in your post.

Vehicles' destination charges are part of their prices and must be paid by all consumers. Similarly, just about all banks that lease vehicles charge a lease acquisition fee. BMW FS' current base lease acquisition fee is $525 in every state but New York. I have heard that in January this charge will increase to $625. Individual dealers do not have the authority to waive either of these charges.

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CarMan@Edmunds · December 2004

Thanks Lee. It's difficult to say whether I actually know more about BMW's lease program than the salesperson who you are dealing with or if they are just playing dumb in an effort to keep you in the dark about the terms of your lease. If you were to lease a 2005 BMW 330Ci through BMW FS right now for 36 months with 15,000 miles per year, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00080 and 58%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical 42 month lease should be .00080 and 52%. BMW Financial Services is one of the banks that does not reduce vehicles' residual values for models that are equipped with expensive options like navigation systems.

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CarMan@Edmunds · December 2004

Lee, I do not know the exact cost per mile for additional miles purchased at lease inception for the banks that you mentioned in your post. You need to speak with the salespeople that you are dealing with or the F&I people in their dealerships to find out. I do not believe that you can purchase additional miles on a per-mile basis at the discounted price that many banks provide at any time other than at lease signing. If you are well into your lease and suspect that you are going to be over your mileage allowance, you will probably have to wait until lease-end and have to pay an excess mileage penalty for any miles that you are over your limit. The exact policy on this matter may vary from bank to bank though.

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CarMan@Edmunds · December 2004

Below invoice is an outstanding price for a G35 Coupe. Infiniti has not had to provide any sort of incentives on the G35 Coupe since it was introduced. It actually began providing support on the 2004 version of this car for the first time ever a few weeks ago in the form of 1.9% financing for up to 3 years and 2.9% for 4 to 5 years.

Since Infiniti is not providing any sort of lease support on this model, assuming equivalent selling prices it would actually be less expensive to lease a 2005 model than it would be to lease the 2004 version right now because the '05's residual values are higher. I do not know if there are any independent banks out there that have a more attractive lease program on this model that Infiniti Financial Services does.

If you were to lease a 2005 G35 Coupe through IFS right now for 36 months with 15,000 miles per year, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00215 and 60%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical 42 month lease should be .00215 and 57%. The numbers for 36 and 42 month leases of the '04 version of this car should be .00215 / 56% and .00215 / 53%.

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CarMan@Edmunds · December 2004

Saab's lease program for 9-3 Convertibles is different than its program for Sedans, smbass. If you were to lease a 2005 Saab 9-3 Arc Convertible through Saab Financial Services Corp. right now for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00110 and 55%, respectively. Saab is not currently providing any sort of dealer cash on 2005 9-3 convertibles.

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CarMan@Edmunds · December 2004

You're very welcome, csf97. You're right, the fact that Acura is not providing any sort of lease support on the TL and its new higher price for this car makes it relatively expensive to lease. The Honda Accord is an excellent replacement for the TL and it would be much less expensive to lease because its price is lower and it has special lease money factors available on it. It is difficult for me to work lease payments for every vehicle in the market to tell you what the best one would be in your price range, but based upon some of the advertised lease payments that I have seen out there I would say that the aforementioned Honda Accord, Nissan Altima / Maxima, Mercedes-Benz C230 Sport Sedan, Subaru Legacy, Honda Pilot, Toyota Highlander / 4Runner, Mazda6, and Saab 9-5 are a few nice vehicles that I would consider leasing if I was looking in your price range or a little higher.

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CarMan@Edmunds · December 2004

You are 55,000 miles over your allowed lease mileage, b21?!? Ouch. Unfortunately the only way that you can avoid having to pay a huge excess mileage penalty on your leased vehicle is to purchase it from the bank that you are leasing it through.

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