Subaru Crew

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  • wstephenswstephens Member Posts: 1
    Does anyone know when/if Subaru will offer leather
    seats with the side airbag option on the Forester
    2001 (currently you can get either leather OR side
    airbags)?
  • grahampetersgrahampeters Member Posts: 1,786
    When using a three point belt attached to the seat back or parcel shelf in a sedan the attachment point seems too low. I prefer it higher where the feel seems the dame as in an outere seat position. I also suspect that seatbacks in sedans are higher than in a wagon as there is no necessity for the seat to fold so readily, most sedans with fold down seats merely laying down over the squab and not giving true flat floor. I therefore feel happier with the higher mounting point for the belt.

    Graham
  • aling1aling1 Member Posts: 225
    I actually like the lower mounting point of the seatbelt. That way, it doesn't rub against my neck (although adjustable B-pillar points have eliminated that). I don't know about Australia, but here in N.America, there are a few cars (not only convertibles) and pickup trucks which have seatbelts that are not mounted to the B-pillar, but to the seat itself. These vehicles have the same seatbelt attachment height + feel as the ones in the MB/Volvo/etc wagons. I guess it all boils down to personal preference.

    Drew
  • miksmimiksmi Member Posts: 1,246
    Well Dana I work for Subaru so I guess my job as a mole is done (just kidding; I'm a computer enginerd in a burb of Washington, DC). analyzing and reanalyzing my decision for about 6 months Haha Dana, you sound just like everyone else in here. Knowing that, I'll predict you'll join the legions of practical Subaru owners ;) If you've never driven a car with a "sport-tuned" suspension, you'll be pleasantly surprised with the GT. My wife has a GT wagon; it hugs the twisties and really puts the fun back into driving. And how bout them alloy wheels?!

    If you don't mind me asking, what else are you considering? Sedan or wagon? Maybe others could help you (and besides, we like yakking about cars). Most here are automobile enthusiasts more than Subaru enthusiasts; I find them less biased than some. For instance, Drew is a MB man yet still hangs out here because he respects the capabilities of the Subaru, not just the vehicles he owns. We're fortunate to have him and others that bring more to the table than just Subaru knowledge (like me).

    Anyway, in the same genre (notice I didn't say class) we have (wagon-wise) the VW Passat 4Motion and Volvo V70 XC (Cross Country). If AWD isn't a must then consider the Saab 9-5, Volvo V70 (V40 rear is tiny compared to a Legacy), FWD Passat, Ford Focus, and Saturn LW (flimsy IMO). Others will add their picks and ones I missed. You can also search the archives in the Station Wagons conference for more opinions.

    when you fold down the rear seats, can you detach the belt? Yes Drew, the separate shoulder belt retracts into the reel in the ceiling. Sounds like the Subaru mechanism is similar to the Odyssey & MD-X.

    BTW Drew, thanks for embedding your URLs in HTML; makes for a cleaner format. Long URLs posted "in the raw" make the browser very wide and foul the navigation buttons at the bottom. I know it takes more effort to write an HREF entry so I just wanted to say I appreciate the effort (and the great content of your posts!) Chris, thanks go to you too (but you're expected to do it, you Unix guy, you!)

    maybe the 2.5L engine can be tweaked with premium? Ken, I've not heard of this being done, at least by the i Club folks. Then again, the i Club idea of a "tweak" is a turbocharger. For that, I imagine higher octane is required.

    Awake ye fanatics of i Club, awake ye Ramon, awake ye Colin, and lead us out of the darkness of ignorance!

    ..Mike Smith, still in Silver Spring, MD, still making excuses to drive his wife's 00 GT wagon, and still prattling (apologies for the tomb, and I didn't misspell tome)

    ..Mike

  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Greetings,

    Thanks to all for the informative posts. I used this and other conferences to help me decide to purchase a Blue Ridge Pearl 2001 Forester S 5-Sp. Now, I'm just awaiting delivery and I've got to tell you that I'm getting anxious. I ended up paying almost exactly 3% over invoice (which included a $200 advertising fee and $100 doc prep fee) and I'm satisfied that I got a good deal. If anyone's interested, the dealership is Conley Subaru in Decatur, GA. Thus far they've been a pleasure to work with. Their initial offer was the 3% over. I could have gotten a 2000 for $200 over invoice but thought it was worth it to get the 2001 since it was only a couple hundred extra.

    I am going to miss my Cherokee however. Despite Chrysler's reputation, I've not had any real problems with it in 8 years and 112,000. I initially wanted to get a new 2000 Cherokee since the model will be redesigned (for the worse) in 2001 (I'm apparently one of the few who like the boxy design and the truck-like ride). Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on how you look at it, Chrysler didn't ever get around to producing any 5-Sp 4L 2000 Cherokee's so I expanded my search and discovered the Forester. I was instantly impressed with Subaru's in general and the Forester in particular. I look forward to enjoying it for years to come.

    Frank P.
  • 40ounces40ounces Member Posts: 10
    It is the 30th Anniversary (auto, CD and Tweeter kit) It was brand new, with 1200 test miles on it. I got it for $16,500, at Ed Voyles in Atlanta. These people were great to deal with. Thanks for the help.
  • 40ounces40ounces Member Posts: 10
    I went by Conley also, they were great to deal with, but did not have any 99's.
  • FrankMcFrankMc Member Posts: 228
    I went to Buffalo for the weekend and took a look at the Foresters I liked the Blue alot (it was under rainy conditions tho... who knows if the opinion would change if there was any sunlight around.
    Looks like a great deal on the '99

    Good luck to both of you

    Frank
  • abhidharmaabhidharma Member Posts: 93
    Next week's edition of Motorweek (PBS for sure, I think it's carried by Speedvision as well) will have a review of the new Forester.

    Randy
  • 2ndwnd2ndwnd Member Posts: 145
    Yeah, I tryed to peel those ugly things off too. I quickly realized it would be no easy task. I live in a split level house with two garage doors, so I just use my garage door opener remotes and my visor mounted sunglass holder to cover up most of them. It might actually be easier to paint or dye the visors if you really can't stand them, or maybe wrap some fabric around them...

    Dave
  • fvkllrfvkllr Member Posts: 26
    I just had an interesting experience. Did anyone know that you can't seem to put a full size (meaning 225/60 R16 tire) in the back well of a 00 Outback limited? A 215/60 R16 fits just not the 225. This seems pretty odd to me. Does anyone know if tire specifications differ widely from manufacturer to manufacturer? The only thing I could think of is that maybe tires are slightly different in size. Does anyone have any thoughts? I need a Full Size spare for a beach permit.
  • aling1aling1 Member Posts: 225
    Just curious, but why would think that this is odd, different specs mean different measurements.

    A 225/60 tire is both wider and taller (higher sidewall) than the 215/60 tire. 225 and 215 indicates the width of the tire thread in millimeters, and the 60 indicates a percentage of that. So, the 215 tire would have a sidewall of 129 mm, and the 225 tire would have a sidewall of 135 mm.

    For more information on how to read tire sidewalls, go to www.tirerack.com and have a look at the FAQs.

    Good Luck!
  • fvkllrfvkllr Member Posts: 26
    What I find odd isn't that the 215 tire is smaller. That is obvious. What I find odd is that apparently you can't fit a full size spare in the back of the 2000 Outback.
  • aling1aling1 Member Posts: 225
    That's no surprise. Unfortunately, many cars that are in today's market have tire wells that are only large enough for the Mickey Mouse donut-sized temporary spare tire. There could be a variety of reasons for this. I would think that the most likely reason may be that more space is needed underneath the car, possibly for the AWD hardware, hence coming at the expense of a smaller spare tire well.

    I guess the good news is that since the well is smaller, less noise is transmitted into the passenger cabin.

    Drew
  • aling1aling1 Member Posts: 225
    Thanks for the kind words in your last posts :-). Yes, I do indeed respect Subarus for their capabilities. I have even greater respect for a manufacturer that provides AWD as standard equipment on their vehicles, even if it was partly for marketing reasons. I may be a MB fan, but hanging out here almost make me want to go out and get a Soobie just to be a "true" owner. Who knows? Maybe one day in the future...the VDC-H6 wagon looks pretty nice. ;-)

    Speaking of Soobie's capabilities, did I tell you that I once got stuck (temporarily) about 3.5 years ago in my parents' Range Rover because I was distracted - more like in awe - of an old Subaru GL 4WD coupe moving in the same foot and a half deep snow that I was driving in? :D If you'd like me to elaborate, just let me know. I'm sure you'll get a kick out of it.
  • francophilefrancophile Member Posts: 667
    To the soon-to-be ex-Cherokee owner, know that you are not the only person who liked the boxy design. My sweetheart bought two of them, intentionally passing on the newer style when she bought the second one. She likes the bouncy truck ride too, just like you. Funny thing, she also is looking at a Forester to replace her aging Jeep. Someone should tell Subaru marketing - this looks like a trend ;-) What neither she nor I will miss is the horrible braking performance, the vague steering, the iffy handling in turns, and that poor excuse for a back seat. After you've driven the Forester for a while you'll look back at the Jeep and wonder how you put up with it.

    Aling1, please by all means tell us of your escapade with the RR. I once stuffed my Austin Mini station wagon into a snow bank because I was busy watching an O-L-D Jeep drive straight up the side of a hill in 12" of snow. That was 30 years ago, when people in my area didn't venture out until a day or so after a big storm; that Jeep and my Mini were about the only vehicles out on the roads except for snowplows. The Jeep and I were making donuts in a shopping center parking lot. (This was great fun in the fwd Mini because it involved the handbrake and, if one were adventurous, reverse gear.) On the way out of the parking lot the Jeep suddenly made a right turn, drove off the road, into a field, and straight up a steep grade. I was so dumbstruck I drove smack into a snowbank.

    Cheers,
    WDB
  • fvkllrfvkllr Member Posts: 26
    Thanks Drew for responding. I concur with your analysis to a certain extent. The 2000 Outback is Subaru's flagship car, that is designed for off road use. Many people like myself require a FULL size spare tire. The Dealer was dumbfounded that you couldn't put a full size spare in back. Their reaction was similar to yours, blah, blah, well, it could be that they redesigned the rear suspension and in the process they made the well slightly smaller, blah, blah. I bought the car under the premise that you could put a full size spare in back.

    Anyone have any thoughts on this?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    If I'm not mistaken, Outbacks sold in markets other than North America use the (old) 215/60x16 size, not the 225/60x16 that we get. That may account as to why the larger tire does not fit the spare tire well, and why we also get a (smaller) temp spare.

    Subaru should address this issue. I am NOT a fan of temp spare tires. I've e-mailed SOA several times regarding this matter.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I just visited the New Zealand and Australian Subaru websites. The Australian Outback does come "standard" with a full-size spare (215/60x16 -- which is the tire size they use) but mounted to a steel wheel. I couldn't find any info on the New Zealand-spec Outback as to the spare tire. However, the New Zealand Forester did mention a full-size spare, which leads me to think that the Outback does not, since it wasn't mentioned.

    Bob
  • miksmimiksmi Member Posts: 1,246
    Drew: Haha, maybe I need to talk to Suburu about a new marketing plan: GUILT people into buying one ;) Bring on that confession, Drew! ..Mike

    ..Mike

  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Interesting discussion on spare tires. I have also wondered why Subaru puts a full-sized spare in Foresters but not the Outback.

    The one thing you need to keep in mind, full-sized or not, is that unless your treadwear is close (I believe within 1/4") you probably will need to replace all four tires anyway.

    That's what almost happened with me a while ago when I got an unrepairable flat on one of my Geolandars. The spare had more than the 1/4" difference recommended by Subaru so I was faced with the need to replace the all four. Luckily, a local tire shop was able to locate a used Geolandar with about the same tread as my other three tires. Apparently, some other Forester owner had gotten a flat the day before and replaced all four tires. Talk about timing!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    A-ha! I knew there would be SOME advatange to my cheap, plastic sun visors! Easy as pie to peel off those oversized warning stickers!

    Whatever you do, take them off early if you do at all.

    Also gotcha on the spare, all Foresters have full sizers, and when you get alloys it's on all five.

    The older Outback size was 205/70R15, so the new one is both wider and taller. I suggest carrying one on the roof rack. It would probably even look pretty darn cool.

    WDB: get this, my Car-O-Scope said I should own a Peugoet 505! Is that hilarious or what?

    I'd love to see that 3rd seat, though perhaps in a bigger model. How 'bout a Grand Forester? Don't laugh, Suzuki is coming out with an XL7 that seats 7 and ain't much bigger.

    Welcome new owners Frank P. and Eric. Congrats to both of you.

    I don't think they package leather with the Forester S Premium, but you can always go aftermarket for leather, or for a moonroof. Though I'd pick the OE moonroof simply because it's got to be the world's largest.

    Dana: good alternatives to the Legacy GT wagon? Hmm, let's see. Forester, Legacy L, Outback, ... :o)

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The older Outback used a 205/70x15, which translates to a 215/60x16, if you go the "Plus 1" route. Again, smaller than the current 225/60x16 tire.

    Bob
  • aling1aling1 Member Posts: 225
    Okay, here it goes...one day in the winter of '96, we received about 10-12" of snow (up on the hill where I live) overnight, which was very unusual for Vancouver. The week that this happened, I was carsitting for my parents' then 6 month old Range Rover 4.6HSE. Like juice , I got up earlier that day just to drive around before the snow plows arrived - which turned out to be 4pm later that day.

    In any case, I set out in the Range Rover, driving around my neighbourhood and watching people stare at me while they were digging their driveways and cars out of the snow, heh heh. It appeared that there was no one sane enough to go out driving that morning but myself. After about 20 minutes, I decided that I had enough and started driving home.

    Just as I pulled up onto my driveway, I noticed an old, beatup blue Subaru GL coupe moving up the same slope (leading up to my street) that I had just "conquered". This was no mean feat, after all, it was a 15-20% slope with about 10 inches of snow! I watched with amazement as this old Soobie turned onto my street and continued going. I was so amazed that I decided to follow this guy to see if he would get stuck later on. Anyway, I backed out and started following the car (it had about a 20 second lead). By the time I caught up to the Soobie, it had just rounded the cul-de-sac and had started going back. I was so caught up with watching the car that I didn't notice where I was going until it was too late. I plowed (going about 15 km/hr) into a 4 feet high pile of snow that one of my neighbours had pushed to the side of his driveway, despite my frantic sawing at the wheel and slamming on the brakes.

    At first I didn't worry. After all, I was in a Range Rover, one of the most capable SUVs. I didn't think that I would have any problems getting out of this pile of snow. I calmly placed the tranny into Reverse and gave it some gas. The vehicle didn't move! Gave it more gas and it still didn't move!! I tried rocking the vehicle between Drive and Reverse while turning the steering wheel to clear the snow around the front tires. Still didn't work! At this point, I started to get worried (I was directly blocking someone's driveway) and so stuck my head out of the window to see what was going on - the front and back wheels were spinning. Now I was really worried and I got out of the car to inspect the mess I was in. The driver's side was fine, but when I got to the passenger's side, I saw that there was snow nearly up to the window line. I looked underneath the R.R and saw that I was high centered.

    I was really embarassed now (luckily there was no one around, but still...), but thankfully I had been smart enough to bring along a snow shovel, just in case. I started digging out the compacted (and very hard) snow underneath the vehicle and after 5 mins, I got back in and tried moving the vehicle again. I was still stuck! This time, I decided to use Low Range to see if I could somehow power my way out of the snow. At first it didn't work, but in a moment of clarify , I remembered the "Extended Mobility mode" that the air suspension had and I hit the control switch. Within about 4 seconds, the air suspension had raised the body for maximum ground clearance (13+", I think). Since the body was now above the snow underneath, I was able to power my way out and return home.

    From that day onwards, I decided not to follow any Soobies driving around in deep snow ;-)

    Drew
  • fayesfayes Member Posts: 12
    I'm just about ready to start some serious Forester shopping. I've decided on an S w/ the premium package (gotta have that sunroof!). I'm undecided on the armrest extention. Does anyone know if this blocks use of the console cup holder? If you're "vertically impaired" like I am, and have to have the seat nearly all the way forward, is the armrest too far behind the driver to be of much use?

    I'm leaning towards the Sedona Red color, with Silverthorn as my second choice. Any comments regarding these colors?

    My local dealer (Lincoln, NE) has only one 2001 in stock, and it doesn't have the armrest. I could drive 50 miles and check out the Omaha dealers, but I thought I'd see what you all have to say.

    By the way, does anyone have any experience (good or bad) with Lincoln or Omaha dealers? (I asked this a while ago, and didn't get a response. Must not be many Subaru fans in Nebraska.)

    Thanks for your input.

    Faye
  • davechendavechen Member Posts: 41
    I'm late again on all of these, but here goes:

    seatbelts: in an accident, the shoulder portion of the belt has to take a few hundred pounds of force (figure five or more g's of deceleration in a bad accident, multiplied by the the weight of a torso!) If the top end of the belt were anchored to the top of a pivoting, split seat (ie: the rear seats in the Outback/Legacy), then the seat would have to be extremely rigid (ie: heavy) to handle that load without twisting (relative to the seat latch point). Also one of seat latches by itself would have to be strong enough to handle that few hundred pounds. I don't know if those other cars had folding and/or split seats, but if so, they are heavier & maybe thicker! Also the seatback would have to be taller to hold a built-in seatbelt reel, and that would obscure vision since the back seats are already higher than the front seats in the Outback/Legacy.

    premium gas: higher octane gas does *not* contain more energy-per-gallon! That is a myth brought to you by Chevron and other gas commercials. Octane relates closely to the temperature at which the fuel ignites.
    However, you may be able to get the power you *should* be getting by using the correct octane fuel. In other words, if your not getting as much power because your engine is knocking/pinging, or your engine or turbocharger is *designed* to run at higher compression & temperature, or what-have-you, then you might be able to correct the problem with higher octane gas and then get the expected power output.
    Moral: Don't wa$te your money on premium gas unless your engine really needs it!

    spare tire: I didn't realize you could even fit a 215/60R15 tire in the spare tire well! That's 100% better than the dinky spare, especially if you are offroading --you wouldn't be able to get back out to civilization with that little thing!
    I'm going to get one now!

    Dave
  • miksmimiksmi Member Posts: 1,246
    Drew: Great story. Sounds like a Subaru commercial in the making. :)

    Dave: I'm late again Oh, there you go again, rubbing it in that we spend too much time here ;) Good points on the seatbelt harness; I don't recall how beefy the rear seats were in the Volvo V70 and Saab 9-5. I don't think the rear vision was blocked by the seats. Both have split, folding rear seats. I guess different engineers (and cost accountants) come up w/different ways of doing the same thing.

    ..Mike

    ..Mike

  • fvkllrfvkllr Member Posts: 26
    I am still thoroughly astounded that you can't put a full size spare in the 2000 Outback. Isn't this car designed to go off road? No one here seems to think that this is a big deal, but for me a full size spare is critical. I'm feeling a little mislead here by my Subaru dealer since they assured me that a full size spare shouldn't be a problem.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Bob: that Plus One is the same diameter, but it's still 1cm wider, so even then it may not fit in the same wheel well.

    Dave: be very careful with diameters, the AWD system works by sensing different rotating speeds, so it may falsely interpret a smaller wheel as spinning constantly.

    Faye: the arm rest is kind of up high for taller drivers, and further back. New Foresters have the dual front cup holder, so it should not matter that you give that one up. You can always order it later from a wholesaler like QSubaru@aol.com. I like the Silver and the new Blue colors a lot.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Eugene: I wouldn't really say the Outback is designed for off-roading. It's a passenger car with some light duty capabilities.

    The Forester goes a bit further, but it's still an extremely capable car. Lifted Aussie Forester with the low range and aftermarket springs excepted.

    With that said, I haven't had a flat in years. The spare tire has not mattered, I guess.

    How 'bout everyone else? Ever have to mount the spare in your Soob?

    -juice
  • fvkllrfvkllr Member Posts: 26
    One of the reasons,among others, that I choose the car (2000 Outback), was I wanted an AWD vehicle to be able to drive on the beach, without going the full blown SUV route. One of the requirements for all Beach ORV (off road vehicle)permits here on Cape Cod is that you have FULL size spare in your car. I love the Outback, so I will figure something out (maybe putting it on the roof or something), but this is a major hassle and inconvenience. Especially since the dealer assured me that a FULL size spare was not a problem. I just want to share my experiences so that someone else doesn't get stuck in the same predicament that I'm in now.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    road insurance. I don't want to be in a position where I have to rely on a less than adequate (spare) tire to get me home -- be it on road or off road.

    Whoever invented the temp spare tire should be banished from any automotive engineering facility forever!

    Bob
  • miksmimiksmi Member Posts: 1,246
    Hi Eugene,

    The Outback is not designed to go off road. At least, not like a Jeep Cherokee or other SUV. That doesn't mean you can't go off road, you just need to be careful. See off road footage by Dave Zartman (Dave - I get a download error on a browser plug-in) and Dave Chen, both who post here.

    The off road image is how Subaru has chosen to market the Outback. It's actually just a car (Legacy platform) that has an extra inch of ground clearance and big tires. Subaru thought up this clever bit of marketing and other manufacturers have copied them (e.g. MB, BMW, Lexus, and you'll see others in the future). It still has the poor approach and departure angles of a car. But on the highway, it doesn't handle like a truck (like many SUVs).

    If you're primarily driving off road, you might not be happy with an Outback. If you're primarily driving on roads with mild off road use, it may be the vehicle for you. It's definitely a compromise between an SUV and a car. On the other hand, it's fuel efficient when compared to an SUV.

    I do agree with you that the Mickey Mouse spare (Drew's technical term ;) is not my cup of tea -- on or off road.

    ..Mike

    ..Mike

  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    You're right. It is a hassle. That full-size spare requirement for beach use makes sense -- and is probably in effect for most beachs in this country. I think(?) it is also a requirement for Assatteaque Island in Maryland and Virginia. I'm not sure about the Outer Banks of North Carolina.

    In any case, you'd be nuts going on the beach without a full-size spare.

    In general, what you want for beach travel is a tire with "floatation" capability -- a wide tire with a non-aggressive tread pattern that will stay on "top" of the sand. A narrow tire (like a temp spare tire) or AT tire with an aggressive tread pattern will "dig" into the sand -- which is what you don't want.

    My Explorer has AT tires, and I have to be careful in the soft stuff not to gas it too hard or I will dig myself a hole and get stuck. Lowering the tire pressure a little helps. Be careful not to lower it too much or you will damage your sidewalls.

    Other beach-driving stuff I bring:

    A shovel

    A 1'x2"x6" board to put my jack on in case I have to jack the vehicle and shovel.

    A tow strap

    A air pump (cigar lighter powered) and tire gauge

    Water, weather protection and a cell phone (with a business card of a local garage that could tow you out).

    When I'm in the soft stuff (which is where you get stuck) with my Explorer, usually use low range. Unfortunately, you can't do that with a Soob.

    Be aware of high and low tides. It's easy to get stranded (or swamped) driving out at low tide, and then get caught when high tide comes in.

    Finally drive sensibly. Last summer, on the Outer Banks, I was driving my Explorer with a friend who had a Land Rover Discovery. Well, the guy in the Land Rover decided to have some fun in the soft stuff -- and promptly got stuck! It's very easy to do. I remember seeing a CJ-7 so stuck once it, that it was about half-buried in sand. It had big aggressive off-road tires, and the guy just gunned the engine, and dug himself a hole.

    Bob
  • aling1aling1 Member Posts: 225
    Bob, since your Explorer has much larger tires (hence much more air volume inside), you can safely air down to 15 psi for beach driving. It is the greater air volume of the larger SUV tires that supports the weight of the vehicle. Of course, it goes without saying that sudden maneuvers should be avoided while driving on low tire pressure, since the rim could come off the tire.

    For those of you who are interested in learning more about 4WD (including some technical POV), go to www.4x4abc.com and click on 4x4 101.

    Mike, I thought that the reduced size temporary spare tires were all universally known as "Mickey Mouse" spare tires ;-)
  • amishraamishra Member Posts: 367
    What about deflating the tire, and keeping a air compressor in the car. Would this work, do you think? The standard OB rim should fit in that spare tire space.

    -- ash
  • centavocentavo Member Posts: 24
    About your post, months ago I asked about this before buying my forester. No one really answered me as I wanted. I have automatic transmission and the 125 hp japanese version (with power overdrive, and hold buttons). Well, I couldn't resist waiting to get out of the break-in period, and before getting 600 miles I went yesterday to one of my country (Dominican Republic) beautiful beaches, with soft sand and all. I was really surprised on how well I did it. A year ago, on the same beach I was stuck 3 times on my former 98'Blazer, but yesterday I didn't have a problem at all. I did 1.25 mi. without problems, in no hard terrain.
    I don't think this AWD needs low range on sand. My stock tires are Bridgestone Duelers H/Ts.

    Everybody there was surprised because the other SUVs on that remote part of the beach were a 94' Land Cruiser, a 92 Wrangler and a 99' Mitsubishi L-200 pickup, with 11 inches of clearance.
  • texsubarutexsubaru Member Posts: 242
    Hey, 5link, there may well be some features in the specific Subaru Added Security Agreement you want that I'm not aware of, but just for an extended warranty the price you're being quoted for it -- especially with a $100 deductible -- sounds rather steep to me. I'd try checking with other Subaru dealers for price quotes on the agreement you want (I'm pretty sure that you DON'T have to buy the Subaru warranty from the same dealer that you actually buy your Subaru from).
    SPARE TIRES: And I side with those folks who consider the mini-spares a pain and think that manufacturers should allow enough trunk space to fit a full-size spare in any car.
  • grahampetersgrahampeters Member Posts: 1,786
    Here in Australia, the standard tyres are 215 R16/60 and the fit into the spare wheel well is tight. To accomodate the larger tyres, the tyre is fitted with a plastic slip cover over it at the rear allowing the tyre to be positioned at an angle and then slipped downward without the rubber sticking to the wheel well. The floor around the wheel also has a one inch foam insert, with dinky little holes cut into it, ostensibly for holding things but too small to be really helpful. This approach suggests that the well was engineered for a mini spare, a viable option in closely settled areas as in Japan or Europe. There, it is probably ten miles tops to the nearest tyre outlet. The one time I had to use one in England, the car only had to travel a mile for a replacement tyre.

    Here in Australia, the mini spare idea is a joke. When you get a flat here, you can be a lonnnnnnnng way from a tyre outlet and the size difference to the opposite side plays hell with the differential. When a mini spare was fitted to an evaluation Outback, it became the rather boring topic for one reviewers whole article. Basically he concuded that the Outback was a wonderful car but totally unviable in Australia because of the mini spare. I tend to agree.

    Cheers

    Graham
  • nvynvy Member Posts: 74
    Howdy Folks:

    Let me jump in here just a sec. if it's not
    to late.

    I've been driving for years with a tempo tire
    as a backup. I've got one still sitting under
    the hood of my "87" 4x4 4dr GL. 102k miles
    and it's never been used. So does my "89" w'
    193K. Just sitting there. Together that's
    What hmm...Let me get out my calcalator. I'm
    not concerned W/ the Outback.

    Now folks I ain't saying that you don't need
    a full size spare. Lord knows that a driver I
    was following last year when leaving Yellowstone
    N.P. was glad he had one. We were both heading
    out making good time in route to Cody when
    it blew. I stop to see if I could help because
    there was only a few more hours of daylight
    left and I could not bare to just pass these
    folks up. I did what I could and continued on
    toward Cody across some of the most beat-up
    under-construction Highway I've ever seen. I would not want to be depending on a tempo tire Buds, let me tell you.

    Now that's one scenario I've encountered were I would want to have a full size spare. The other would be if I had a flat in front of any Joint called the Do Drop In! No offense, it just a
    song. Point: any spare will do under the right
    situation.

    Later Ya'll
  • fvkllrfvkllr Member Posts: 26
    Amishra, thanks for the thought. I tried deflating the tire down to 15 PSI and it still didn't fit. I'll try deflating it all the way. If it fits keeping a compressor in the car is not a bad alternative.
  • daotodaoto Member Posts: 6
    I've been flipping back and forth between the volvo 850 (used), the VW Passat wagon, the Audi A6 (used) and the Subaru GT wagon. All have their strong points, most are very expensive. The GT wagon is at the top of my list for now and the comments in this group is making it a stronger contender. I have a few more months to decide, which makes me flip flop every week. I'm having trouble finding a GT wagon with 5 speed. I prefer to buy a used one but it seems in California most people prefer automatic transmissions. I'll let ya'll know what I decide. If I find a GT with 5 speed, I'll probably pounce on it. Thanks for the help. Dana
  • aling1aling1 Member Posts: 225
    Juice, you were mentioning the severity of the Kenya Rally a while back. Well, I just watched the '00 Kenya Rally and the Subaru Imprezas did very well. All of the cars that ran on this very rugged terrain had tubular brushguards to protect the front end from rock damage. The Imprezas were fitted with small snorkles on the passenger side so that the water wouldn't splash into the air intake when going across the (sometimes deep) water crossings. None of the Ford Focuses (Focii ??) had this and one was stranded (Colin McCrae's) because the water splashed into the intake and into the engine; not very good. Some of the other cars had full snorkles - ex. Seat Cordoba, Skoda, etc. - that ran all of the way from the hood to the roof.

    In conclusion, Richard Burns finished 2nd and Subaru has moved to the top position on the manufacturers championship with 25 points. I believe that Mitsubishi is next at 16 points.

    Drew
  • aling1aling1 Member Posts: 225
    Be careful about deflating the tire all of the way down. When you inflate it again, it might not be seated properly on the rim and using the tire could be dangerous. Why not just dump the full-sized tire in a plastic bag (the ones for tires) when you're going to the beach. Or, as mentioned earlier, place on the roof.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    A spare tire should be considered as insurance. I know when push-comes-to-shove, I want the best "coverage" I can get. The few times I have needed to use my (temp) spare, I never felt comfortable or safe.

    If there's anything positive to be said for a temp spare, it forced me to get my flat tire fixed ASAP!

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I'm under the impression (right or wrong) that you can only use a "temp tire" for a very limited amount of miles, somewhere around 50 - 100 miles total for the life of the tire. Can anyone verify that?

    If I'm correct, that means you should probably use it only once (or twice) without replacing it with a new spare. 50 -100 miles can add up quickly.

    Bob
  • miksmimiksmi Member Posts: 1,246
    Centavo, I'm not familiar with the Japan Domestic Market Forester (or 4x4s or I wouldn't ask this silly Q). What are power overdrive and hold buttons? Also, 125hp? What size (liters) is the engine?

    Dana, 5 speed anything is hard to find in thickly settled areas (wife's New England term; I notice Graham says "closely settled"; I say "densely populated" but I really shouldn't rush to judgment). I feel your pain in the quest for a 5MT GT. You could also try eBay (yes, I've seen a GT there), Ultimate Subaru Message Board (Marketplace forum), or i Club (Legacy or Classified forums). In the forums, if you don't see one for sale, you can post what you WTB (Want To Buy). Use a descriptive subject like "WTB: GT wagon 5sp in Silver Spring, MD, USA". Let us know how you make out (for Subaru or for worse ;)

    Drew, OT but: Please be considerate of those w/out SpeedVision and let us live in ignorant bliss of Subaru's WRC success. Whew, I feel better now. Oh, and thanks for the report. :P I know, I'll switch to a different cable provider. Oops forgot, it's a monopoly; I can't switch. :( Yet another reason for a dish.

    ..Mike

    ..Mike

  • nvynvy Member Posts: 74
    Not an Authority on this and thats for sure,but
    the instruction I received w/ my 00OB tempa tire
    seems to measure the life of the tire in terms
    of wear vs miles.

    Says: The usable tread is the original tread down
    to the level of the tread wear indicators-2/32nds of an inch (1.6mm) of tread remaining.
  • amishraamishra Member Posts: 367
    Hey Dave: Just stumbled upon your site (which was posted a couple of messages earlier) -- nice Flash intro .. quite cool actually :)

    Have you made any of the mods to your OB yet?

    ash
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Given the choice I'd obviously pick a full size spare, but noone has mentioned the two benefits of a donut: it saves weight and space.

    Centavo: great to hear that story, I can't wait until September's Outer Banks trip (look for many, many photos of that trip soon after).

    That's the 2.0l engine found in Asia, Europe, and Latin America. They also get a turbo option. Centavo has the last laugh - he lives in the Caribbean. Ain't life grand?

    Drew: thanks for the update.

    All this talk about driving in the sand reminds me of my dad's dune buggy in Brazil. It's basically an old Beetle chassis with enormous rear tires and a fyberglass body. Way cool, too fun. I'll try to dig up a picture, though last time I looked I could not find one.

    -juice
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