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Comments
seats with the side airbag option on the Forester
2001 (currently you can get either leather OR side
airbags)?
Graham
Drew
If you don't mind me asking, what else are you considering? Sedan or wagon? Maybe others could help you (and besides, we like yakking about cars). Most here are automobile enthusiasts more than Subaru enthusiasts; I find them less biased than some. For instance, Drew is a MB man yet still hangs out here because he respects the capabilities of the Subaru, not just the vehicles he owns. We're fortunate to have him and others that bring more to the table than just Subaru knowledge (like me).
Anyway, in the same genre (notice I didn't say class) we have (wagon-wise) the VW Passat 4Motion and Volvo V70 XC (Cross Country). If AWD isn't a must then consider the Saab 9-5, Volvo V70 (V40 rear is tiny compared to a Legacy), FWD Passat, Ford Focus, and Saturn LW (flimsy IMO). Others will add their picks and ones I missed. You can also search the archives in the Station Wagons conference for more opinions.
when you fold down the rear seats, can you detach the belt? Yes Drew, the separate shoulder belt retracts into the reel in the ceiling. Sounds like the Subaru mechanism is similar to the Odyssey & MD-X.
BTW Drew, thanks for embedding your URLs in HTML; makes for a cleaner format. Long URLs posted "in the raw" make the browser very wide and foul the navigation buttons at the bottom. I know it takes more effort to write an HREF entry so I just wanted to say I appreciate the effort (and the great content of your posts!) Chris, thanks go to you too (but you're expected to do it, you Unix guy, you!)
maybe the 2.5L engine can be tweaked with premium? Ken, I've not heard of this being done, at least by the i Club folks. Then again, the i Club idea of a "tweak" is a turbocharger. For that, I imagine higher octane is required.
Awake ye fanatics of i Club, awake ye Ramon, awake ye Colin, and lead us out of the darkness of ignorance!
..Mike Smith, still in Silver Spring, MD, still making excuses to drive his wife's 00 GT wagon, and still prattling (apologies for the tomb, and I didn't misspell tome)
..Mike
Thanks to all for the informative posts. I used this and other conferences to help me decide to purchase a Blue Ridge Pearl 2001 Forester S 5-Sp. Now, I'm just awaiting delivery and I've got to tell you that I'm getting anxious. I ended up paying almost exactly 3% over invoice (which included a $200 advertising fee and $100 doc prep fee) and I'm satisfied that I got a good deal. If anyone's interested, the dealership is Conley Subaru in Decatur, GA. Thus far they've been a pleasure to work with. Their initial offer was the 3% over. I could have gotten a 2000 for $200 over invoice but thought it was worth it to get the 2001 since it was only a couple hundred extra.
I am going to miss my Cherokee however. Despite Chrysler's reputation, I've not had any real problems with it in 8 years and 112,000. I initially wanted to get a new 2000 Cherokee since the model will be redesigned (for the worse) in 2001 (I'm apparently one of the few who like the boxy design and the truck-like ride). Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on how you look at it, Chrysler didn't ever get around to producing any 5-Sp 4L 2000 Cherokee's so I expanded my search and discovered the Forester. I was instantly impressed with Subaru's in general and the Forester in particular. I look forward to enjoying it for years to come.
Frank P.
Looks like a great deal on the '99
Good luck to both of you
Frank
Randy
Dave
A 225/60 tire is both wider and taller (higher sidewall) than the 215/60 tire. 225 and 215 indicates the width of the tire thread in millimeters, and the 60 indicates a percentage of that. So, the 215 tire would have a sidewall of 129 mm, and the 225 tire would have a sidewall of 135 mm.
For more information on how to read tire sidewalls, go to www.tirerack.com and have a look at the FAQs.
Good Luck!
I guess the good news is that since the well is smaller, less noise is transmitted into the passenger cabin.
Drew
Speaking of Soobie's capabilities, did I tell you that I once got stuck (temporarily) about 3.5 years ago in my parents' Range Rover because I was distracted - more like in awe - of an old Subaru GL 4WD coupe moving in the same foot and a half deep snow that I was driving in?
Aling1, please by all means tell us of your escapade with the RR. I once stuffed my Austin Mini station wagon into a snow bank because I was busy watching an O-L-D Jeep drive straight up the side of a hill in 12" of snow. That was 30 years ago, when people in my area didn't venture out until a day or so after a big storm; that Jeep and my Mini were about the only vehicles out on the roads except for snowplows. The Jeep and I were making donuts in a shopping center parking lot. (This was great fun in the fwd Mini because it involved the handbrake and, if one were adventurous, reverse gear.) On the way out of the parking lot the Jeep suddenly made a right turn, drove off the road, into a field, and straight up a steep grade. I was so dumbstruck I drove smack into a snowbank.
Cheers,
WDB
Anyone have any thoughts on this?
Subaru should address this issue. I am NOT a fan of temp spare tires. I've e-mailed SOA several times regarding this matter.
Bob
Bob
..Mike
The one thing you need to keep in mind, full-sized or not, is that unless your treadwear is close (I believe within 1/4") you probably will need to replace all four tires anyway.
That's what almost happened with me a while ago when I got an unrepairable flat on one of my Geolandars. The spare had more than the 1/4" difference recommended by Subaru so I was faced with the need to replace the all four. Luckily, a local tire shop was able to locate a used Geolandar with about the same tread as my other three tires. Apparently, some other Forester owner had gotten a flat the day before and replaced all four tires. Talk about timing!
Whatever you do, take them off early if you do at all.
Also gotcha on the spare, all Foresters have full sizers, and when you get alloys it's on all five.
The older Outback size was 205/70R15, so the new one is both wider and taller. I suggest carrying one on the roof rack. It would probably even look pretty darn cool.
WDB: get this, my Car-O-Scope said I should own a Peugoet 505! Is that hilarious or what?
I'd love to see that 3rd seat, though perhaps in a bigger model. How 'bout a Grand Forester? Don't laugh, Suzuki is coming out with an XL7 that seats 7 and ain't much bigger.
Welcome new owners Frank P. and Eric. Congrats to both of you.
I don't think they package leather with the Forester S Premium, but you can always go aftermarket for leather, or for a moonroof. Though I'd pick the OE moonroof simply because it's got to be the world's largest.
Dana: good alternatives to the Legacy GT wagon? Hmm, let's see. Forester, Legacy L, Outback, ...
-juice
Bob
In any case, I set out in the Range Rover, driving around my neighbourhood and watching people stare at me while they were digging their driveways and cars out of the snow, heh heh. It appeared that there was no one sane enough to go out driving that morning but myself. After about 20 minutes, I decided that I had enough and started driving home.
Just as I pulled up onto my driveway, I noticed an old, beatup blue Subaru GL coupe moving up the same slope (leading up to my street) that I had just "conquered". This was no mean feat, after all, it was a 15-20% slope with about 10 inches of snow! I watched with amazement as this old Soobie turned onto my street and continued going. I was so amazed that I decided to follow this guy to see if he would get stuck later on. Anyway, I backed out and started following the car (it had about a 20 second lead). By the time I caught up to the Soobie, it had just rounded the cul-de-sac and had started going back. I was so caught up with watching the car that I didn't notice where I was going until it was too late. I plowed (going about 15 km/hr) into a 4 feet high pile of snow that one of my neighbours had pushed to the side of his driveway, despite my frantic sawing at the wheel and slamming on the brakes.
At first I didn't worry. After all, I was in a Range Rover, one of the most capable SUVs. I didn't think that I would have any problems getting out of this pile of snow. I calmly placed the tranny into Reverse and gave it some gas. The vehicle didn't move! Gave it more gas and it still didn't move!! I tried rocking the vehicle between Drive and Reverse while turning the steering wheel to clear the snow around the front tires. Still didn't work! At this point, I started to get worried (I was directly blocking someone's driveway) and so stuck my head out of the window to see what was going on - the front and back wheels were spinning. Now I was really worried and I got out of the car to inspect the mess I was in. The driver's side was fine, but when I got to the passenger's side, I saw that there was snow nearly up to the window line. I looked underneath the R.R and saw that I was high centered.
I was really embarassed now (luckily there was no one around, but still...), but thankfully I had been smart enough to bring along a snow shovel, just in case. I started digging out the compacted (and very hard) snow underneath the vehicle and after 5 mins, I got back in and tried moving the vehicle again. I was still stuck! This time, I decided to use Low Range to see if I could somehow power my way out of the snow. At first it didn't work, but in a moment of clarify , I remembered the "Extended Mobility mode" that the air suspension had and I hit the control switch. Within about 4 seconds, the air suspension had raised the body for maximum ground clearance (13+", I think). Since the body was now above the snow underneath, I was able to power my way out and return home.
From that day onwards, I decided not to follow any Soobies driving around in deep snow ;-)
Drew
I'm leaning towards the Sedona Red color, with Silverthorn as my second choice. Any comments regarding these colors?
My local dealer (Lincoln, NE) has only one 2001 in stock, and it doesn't have the armrest. I could drive 50 miles and check out the Omaha dealers, but I thought I'd see what you all have to say.
By the way, does anyone have any experience (good or bad) with Lincoln or Omaha dealers? (I asked this a while ago, and didn't get a response. Must not be many Subaru fans in Nebraska.)
Thanks for your input.
Faye
seatbelts: in an accident, the shoulder portion of the belt has to take a few hundred pounds of force (figure five or more g's of deceleration in a bad accident, multiplied by the the weight of a torso!) If the top end of the belt were anchored to the top of a pivoting, split seat (ie: the rear seats in the Outback/Legacy), then the seat would have to be extremely rigid (ie: heavy) to handle that load without twisting (relative to the seat latch point). Also one of seat latches by itself would have to be strong enough to handle that few hundred pounds. I don't know if those other cars had folding and/or split seats, but if so, they are heavier & maybe thicker! Also the seatback would have to be taller to hold a built-in seatbelt reel, and that would obscure vision since the back seats are already higher than the front seats in the Outback/Legacy.
premium gas: higher octane gas does *not* contain more energy-per-gallon! That is a myth brought to you by Chevron and other gas commercials. Octane relates closely to the temperature at which the fuel ignites.
However, you may be able to get the power you *should* be getting by using the correct octane fuel. In other words, if your not getting as much power because your engine is knocking/pinging, or your engine or turbocharger is *designed* to run at higher compression & temperature, or what-have-you, then you might be able to correct the problem with higher octane gas and then get the expected power output.
Moral: Don't wa$te your money on premium gas unless your engine really needs it!
spare tire: I didn't realize you could even fit a 215/60R15 tire in the spare tire well! That's 100% better than the dinky spare, especially if you are offroading --you wouldn't be able to get back out to civilization with that little thing!
I'm going to get one now!
Dave
Dave: I'm late again Oh, there you go again, rubbing it in that we spend too much time here
..Mike
..Mike
Dave: be very careful with diameters, the AWD system works by sensing different rotating speeds, so it may falsely interpret a smaller wheel as spinning constantly.
Faye: the arm rest is kind of up high for taller drivers, and further back. New Foresters have the dual front cup holder, so it should not matter that you give that one up. You can always order it later from a wholesaler like QSubaru@aol.com. I like the Silver and the new Blue colors a lot.
-juice
The Forester goes a bit further, but it's still an extremely capable car. Lifted Aussie Forester with the low range and aftermarket springs excepted.
With that said, I haven't had a flat in years. The spare tire has not mattered, I guess.
How 'bout everyone else? Ever have to mount the spare in your Soob?
-juice
Whoever invented the temp spare tire should be banished from any automotive engineering facility forever!
Bob
The Outback is not designed to go off road. At least, not like a Jeep Cherokee or other SUV. That doesn't mean you can't go off road, you just need to be careful. See off road footage by Dave Zartman (Dave - I get a download error on a browser plug-in) and Dave Chen, both who post here.
The off road image is how Subaru has chosen to market the Outback. It's actually just a car (Legacy platform) that has an extra inch of ground clearance and big tires. Subaru thought up this clever bit of marketing and other manufacturers have copied them (e.g. MB, BMW, Lexus, and you'll see others in the future). It still has the poor approach and departure angles of a car. But on the highway, it doesn't handle like a truck (like many SUVs).
If you're primarily driving off road, you might not be happy with an Outback. If you're primarily driving on roads with mild off road use, it may be the vehicle for you. It's definitely a compromise between an SUV and a car. On the other hand, it's fuel efficient when compared to an SUV.
I do agree with you that the Mickey Mouse spare (Drew's technical term
..Mike
..Mike
In any case, you'd be nuts going on the beach without a full-size spare.
In general, what you want for beach travel is a tire with "floatation" capability -- a wide tire with a non-aggressive tread pattern that will stay on "top" of the sand. A narrow tire (like a temp spare tire) or AT tire with an aggressive tread pattern will "dig" into the sand -- which is what you don't want.
My Explorer has AT tires, and I have to be careful in the soft stuff not to gas it too hard or I will dig myself a hole and get stuck. Lowering the tire pressure a little helps. Be careful not to lower it too much or you will damage your sidewalls.
Other beach-driving stuff I bring:
A shovel
A 1'x2"x6" board to put my jack on in case I have to jack the vehicle and shovel.
A tow strap
A air pump (cigar lighter powered) and tire gauge
Water, weather protection and a cell phone (with a business card of a local garage that could tow you out).
When I'm in the soft stuff (which is where you get stuck) with my Explorer, usually use low range. Unfortunately, you can't do that with a Soob.
Be aware of high and low tides. It's easy to get stranded (or swamped) driving out at low tide, and then get caught when high tide comes in.
Finally drive sensibly. Last summer, on the Outer Banks, I was driving my Explorer with a friend who had a Land Rover Discovery. Well, the guy in the Land Rover decided to have some fun in the soft stuff -- and promptly got stuck! It's very easy to do. I remember seeing a CJ-7 so stuck once it, that it was about half-buried in sand. It had big aggressive off-road tires, and the guy just gunned the engine, and dug himself a hole.
Bob
For those of you who are interested in learning more about 4WD (including some technical POV), go to www.4x4abc.com and click on 4x4 101.
Mike, I thought that the reduced size temporary spare tires were all universally known as "Mickey Mouse" spare tires ;-)
-- ash
I don't think this AWD needs low range on sand. My stock tires are Bridgestone Duelers H/Ts.
Everybody there was surprised because the other SUVs on that remote part of the beach were a 94' Land Cruiser, a 92 Wrangler and a 99' Mitsubishi L-200 pickup, with 11 inches of clearance.
SPARE TIRES: And I side with those folks who consider the mini-spares a pain and think that manufacturers should allow enough trunk space to fit a full-size spare in any car.
Here in Australia, the mini spare idea is a joke. When you get a flat here, you can be a lonnnnnnnng way from a tyre outlet and the size difference to the opposite side plays hell with the differential. When a mini spare was fitted to an evaluation Outback, it became the rather boring topic for one reviewers whole article. Basically he concuded that the Outback was a wonderful car but totally unviable in Australia because of the mini spare. I tend to agree.
Cheers
Graham
Let me jump in here just a sec. if it's not
to late.
I've been driving for years with a tempo tire
as a backup. I've got one still sitting under
the hood of my "87" 4x4 4dr GL. 102k miles
and it's never been used. So does my "89" w'
193K. Just sitting there. Together that's
What hmm...Let me get out my calcalator. I'm
not concerned W/ the Outback.
Now folks I ain't saying that you don't need
a full size spare. Lord knows that a driver I
was following last year when leaving Yellowstone
N.P. was glad he had one. We were both heading
out making good time in route to Cody when
it blew. I stop to see if I could help because
there was only a few more hours of daylight
left and I could not bare to just pass these
folks up. I did what I could and continued on
toward Cody across some of the most beat-up
under-construction Highway I've ever seen. I would not want to be depending on a tempo tire Buds, let me tell you.
Now that's one scenario I've encountered were I would want to have a full size spare. The other would be if I had a flat in front of any Joint called the Do Drop In! No offense, it just a
song. Point: any spare will do under the right
situation.
Later Ya'll
In conclusion, Richard Burns finished 2nd and Subaru has moved to the top position on the manufacturers championship with 25 points. I believe that Mitsubishi is next at 16 points.
Drew
If there's anything positive to be said for a temp spare, it forced me to get my flat tire fixed ASAP!
Bob
If I'm correct, that means you should probably use it only once (or twice) without replacing it with a new spare. 50 -100 miles can add up quickly.
Bob
Dana, 5 speed anything is hard to find in thickly settled areas (wife's New England term; I notice Graham says "closely settled"; I say "densely populated" but I really shouldn't rush to judgment). I feel your pain in the quest for a 5MT GT. You could also try eBay (yes, I've seen a GT there), Ultimate Subaru Message Board (Marketplace forum), or i Club (Legacy or Classified forums). In the forums, if you don't see one for sale, you can post what you WTB (Want To Buy). Use a descriptive subject like "WTB: GT wagon 5sp in Silver Spring, MD, USA". Let us know how you make out (for Subaru or for worse
Drew, OT but: Please be considerate of those w/out SpeedVision and let us live in ignorant bliss of Subaru's WRC success. Whew, I feel better now. Oh, and thanks for the report. :P I know, I'll switch to a different cable provider. Oops forgot, it's a monopoly; I can't switch.
..Mike
..Mike
the instruction I received w/ my 00OB tempa tire
seems to measure the life of the tire in terms
of wear vs miles.
Says: The usable tread is the original tread down
to the level of the tread wear indicators-2/32nds of an inch (1.6mm) of tread remaining.
Have you made any of the mods to your OB yet?
ash
Centavo: great to hear that story, I can't wait until September's Outer Banks trip (look for many, many photos of that trip soon after).
That's the 2.0l engine found in Asia, Europe, and Latin America. They also get a turbo option. Centavo has the last laugh - he lives in the Caribbean. Ain't life grand?
Drew: thanks for the update.
All this talk about driving in the sand reminds me of my dad's dune buggy in Brazil. It's basically an old Beetle chassis with enormous rear tires and a fyberglass body. Way cool, too fun. I'll try to dig up a picture, though last time I looked I could not find one.
-juice