Subaru Crew - Dealers & Pricing

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Comments

  • bert14bert14 Member Posts: 8
    What advice do you have for finding reliable and fair Subaru sales and service? I live west of Boston and fairly near southern NH. The nearest dealer and service is in Concord/Acton, Mass., and that might be fine, but I need your experience, and I'm willing to travel far to avoid hassles with sales and service departments.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Fitz has 11 new Imprezas on their back lot. They're not yet listed on their web site.

    They are: 1 silver WRX wagon (sold), 1 OBS, 2 TSs, and the rest are all RSs. Only 1 automatic (an RS) in the whole group.

    The seats in the RS are the same, except for material pattern, as the WRX. The OBS and TS have "normal" seats, with the OBS having a lighter colored pattern.

    Also, I got the the sales manager to e-mail Glenn Wallace (new Impreza.com) to get Fitzgerald listed as a WRX-friendly dealer on that site. Tisher Subaru in Silver Spring MD is listed there.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    No rex? Bummer.

    I want those seats for my Forester. If anyone buys a set of Sparcos I got first dibs on your seats!

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Fitzgerald has updated their site with the new Imprezas added.

    Bob

    http://www.fitzgeraldautomall.com/
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sweet! WRX wagon for $22,755!

    The TS is a steal at $17,066. Makes me wish I was in the market...

    -juice
  • dsackmandsackman Member Posts: 145
    I just had a rather strange experience and I am not sure how to handle it. Maybe Patti M or someone else may be able to shed some light on this.

    From the Subaru literature the 7,500 mile service is described to be a mere oil change. I took the Forester to a Subaru dealer, the same one I bought the car from, and when I collected the car, I was confronted with a $150 bill! About $130 was labor and the remainder was oil, oil additives, seals, etc.

    I queried this and the explanation was that this particular dealership believe that the more work should be done to the car than suggested by Subaru. Phrases such as "longevity", "performance", "safety", etc were uttered.

    I queried how they could have "checked and adjusted" the clutch (on an automatic car!) and "oiled the radio aerial" when the aerial is imbedded in the windows glass. Items which were marked as being done. No real response except a mumble.

    Is it true that Subaru suggests a service schedule that might reduce the longevity of the car, or make it less safe? I can hardly believe this. Maybe Patti wants to comment? Maybe I was just gouged by the dealership I placed so much faith in.

    Daniel
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    I'm getting this done tomorrow afternoon on my '00 OB (which has about 7,100 on the odo). When I called for the appt., they mentioned "Do you want to rotate your tires also?" and "It's done at 7,500 miles." I was planning to do this on my own this weekend, but tomorrow it's supposed to snow! :-) So, I'll let them do it this time - just so I can have time to play! (I'll also be checking the wheels lug nut torque afterwards - can't have them on too tight!)


    You can also check your service records online, if your dealer has posted them to Subaru. See what they have entered for that service. Here's a link to the My Subaru site (you may have to login) - http://my.subaru.com/service/interval.asp. This is the maintenance intervals Subaru requires. Subaru only recommends that the Oil & Filter be changed. There's also a disclaimer at the top that reads "Your Subaru dealer and other resources may recommend additional maintenance procedures at other mileage intervals."


    If you're not satisfied with your dealers' service, let 'em know! Subaru will probably send you a survey regarding your last service - let 'em know how you feel. Tell the dealer you're going to rate them low on the survey - if they care, perhaps they'll explain their services properly. If they don't - find another dealer for service!


    -Brian
  • dsackmandsackman Member Posts: 145
    Brian,

    The My Subaru site indicates "Oil Change" for both the '01 Forester and the '01 Legacy. I have both.

    The disclaimer will allow anything to be done to the car, whether it is needed or not.

    What is NEEDED to keep the car in good working condition and within the requirements for warranty claims? That does not seem to be stipulated anywhere.

    I was duped. I hope other people may learn from this experience. $150 for an oil change is a bit rough.

    Daniel
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    What I was trying to point out in my post is that Subaru only recommends the oil change at 7,500. So, that's the basics of what's needed to keep your Sube running. Show them your owner's manual/maintenance book and you have your proof - just the oil change at 7,500 (like the web site).

    Yes, I agree, your dealer did you wrong. If they won't cooperate with you, I suppose you could take issue with your local BBB. I'd certainly gouge them on the survey, if you get one. Any other dealers in your area to go to?

    -Brian
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    You've been taken. But be thankful that you were only taken for a $150 oil change, instead of a more costly repair. Now you know to write-off that dealer. I've found (and I've been to lots of bad dealers) that it is far more useful and less stressful to write-off a dealer than to try to make things right. Places like that look for the old ladies with 15 year old corollas that have like 60K miles and tell em "oh yeah that knocking noise means you need a new head on your car, that will be $900"

    Just my 2 cents.

    -mike
  • bigfrank3bigfrank3 Member Posts: 426
    If you asked them for the oil and filter change I wouldn't let them get away with it. If you asked for the "7500 mile service" they may have you on semantics, especially if they have something hanging on the wall saying what "they" recommend, but I still wouldn't let them get with it.

    I will bet a polite but LOUD discussion of their sneaky practices in front of other service customers would get you some reparation. If that doesn't work I would go see your salesman and ask politely but LOUDLY what kind of operation they are running there... this is also especially useful if there are potential customers in the showroom. I guarantee that someone will pull you aside and ask how they can make you happy. Take the refund and find somewhere else to do business.

    In any case please tell us all who it was so the word can get out about their sleazy way of doing business.

    Good luck!
    Frank
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Has worked for me on several occasions, just don't let their smiles and money back lure you into going back for service, and please let us know who the basads are!

    -mike
  • barresa62barresa62 Member Posts: 1,379
    They gave you a line of BS and don't you take it for one second....(if not,just to appease my sense of justice) :-) I totally agree w/Mike on this one.
    Get Patti involved if need be...this should not go unresolved. I would have ripped them a new one in a heart beat! I do not have patience for crap like this, especially when it's so obviously a sham. It's as if it wasn't bad enough to try to get one over on you, they also assume you're stupid! Ok...I have to stop now before I say something that's blatantly against Edmund's policy.

    Bring them to their KNEES,
    Stephen
  • dsackmandsackman Member Posts: 145
    The saddest portion of all is that this is Carlsen Subaru in Redwood City, California. A dealer with a very good reputation who is always in the top 5 selling dealers in the country. I bought two cars from them over the last six months.

    I do not have the time to go and bug the dealer or the service department. There are other service shops in the bay area, but not that conveniently close to my office.

    I have seen quite a few new faces at the dealer. Maybe they are changing their business model to gouging, rather than honest deals?

    Well guys. Be careful of Carlsen Subaru in Redwood City, California.

    Daniel
  • francophilefrancophile Member Posts: 667
    Wow. Color me shocked. If your bill had included more for materials then maybe, maybe I could see that price; maybe they changed a lot of fluids, for example, replacing them with longer lasting stuff. But the materials charge is too low for me to believe that.

    I had my car serviced there while I was in CA. They did not pad my bill like that, in fact I got the service for free because the service rep felt bad about being so short with me when I showed up. No kidding. However I got the feeling that they were a volume outfit, there to pump the cars through the shop. I have a sinking feeling that you were gouged. If you paid by credit card, dispute the charge NOW and get SoA involved.

    Sadly,
    -wdb
  • dsackmandsackman Member Posts: 145
    Being had by someone you trust makes it even worse.

    Going back through the documentation I noticed now that I did sign for a quote of $149. I doubt it whether I have a leg to stand on.

    Buyer beware!

    Daniel
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    My salesmen are great where I get my cars, but the service dept sux. I tell everyone to buy from my buddy but never go there for service. A lot of the problem with dealer service departments I believe could be partially a result of the internet. With the increased knowledge of how much cars invoice prices are, dealers are making less and less $ on the initial sale, and are making up for it via higher service prices/gouging. Most people feel a dealer should only make about $200-$400 a car for a 23K car which is less than a 2% markup. These same people have no problem going to burgerking where the markup is in the 25-30% markup (and like 95% markup on the soda). Having owned a business, I always factor in $700-$1500 true profit for the dealer (700-1500 over their true cost) which is pretty fair IMHO.

    -mike
  • armac13armac13 Member Posts: 1,129
    what's happening? Two of your posts in a row where I can only say "I totally agree". I've never been in business, but I strongly believe that a dealer deserves a fair and reasonable profit (and that isn't $200 on a new car).

    Ross
  • originalbitmanoriginalbitman Member Posts: 920
    Carlsen has been good to me. The have never obviously overcharged me and always been upfront. In fact they damaged my 00 when trying to fix a noise in the roof and in return gave me what I consider a very fare deal on trade for a new 01 GT wagon including credit for a complete roof repaint. When I dropped off my 00 they sent the detail person to my house to install the bumper cover on the 01... typical of their going out of there way to deliver customer satisfaction.
    I would speak to the service manager Joe Sui and tell him you how you feel. Unfortunately you did sign the quote. But maybe next time they can make it up to you.

    Unfortunately... it is always buyer be ware and read what you are signing. I know I will the next time I take my car in for service.
    bit
  • samsarmysamsarmy Member Posts: 1
    Kelly Blue Book says that the destination charges for a 2001 Forester S is $495, but my dealer says it recently went up to $535. Is he trying to sneak a little profit in, or is he telling the truth?
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    It is in fact up to $535 for '01.

    -mike
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    The same mileage service can vary from dealer to dealer. As Frank mentioned, it was probably "their" 7500 mile service.
    A similar thing happened to me when I asked for a xxxx mile service. The maint. schedule recommended a lube, oil and filter but I didn't specify that. I was expecting to pay $24 and they charged me $80! After complaining the next day to the service manager, they gave me the next two "oil changes" for free.
    This dealer also charges about $115 more for a 30,000 mile service than my current dealer on the same MY car. Some go "by the book" and others tack on lots of extras.
    Now I do my own oil changes and go to the dealer for other service.

    Dennis
  • kate5000kate5000 Member Posts: 1,271
    Even though you've signed the quote, you still can dispute the charges. First, as suggested, alert your credit card company if you paid by credit card. Then write an angry letter to service manager, questioning what was it about the clutch (on AT car) and radio antenna, etc. Then follow up with a phone call or schedule a visit to see the service manager. I would expect them to at least give you a few coupons for free oil changes or a free service next time, or something like that.

    I just went through the 3+ months of ordeal of fixing my Forester in the body shop. Unfortunately, unless you stand up for yourself, you'll be getting taken over and over again.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    BMW owners pay that at every oil change. Maybe the guy that wrote up your service ticket used to work for them? ;-)

    Well, since you signed off, not much point if you ask me. You've already made us aware of it, and public dialogue is really the most effective means to prevent that in the future (for you and for everyone else here).

    -juice
  • pattim3pattim3 Member Posts: 533
    I'm sorry about what happened. When you asked for a 7500 mile service, did they say they recommended other work? What "seals" did they need to replace? Why wouldn't that be warranty? Please call us at 1-800-SUBARU3. Ask the Rep. who takes your case to see me after they hear from you and start a file.

    What we recommend is the minimum maintenance. That is really just to keep us in line with other manufacturers. Sometimes, in bad weather areas or areas where there are "severe driving conditions", dealers recommend other services, but they should talk to you first. I'll call Carlsen myself after you contact us. They usually are pretty good.

    Patti
  • rangerron7rangerron7 Member Posts: 317
    After reading Dsackman's experience with his 7,500 mile servicing, It dawned on me that I had the same experience 3 weeks ago. I took my 2000 OB to the dealer for servicing and in addition to the oil & filter change and tire rotation they performed "7,500 mile scheduled maintenance". The bill was $162.66 (which I authorized in advance). I just called the service writer who said that the service included "brake service, battery service, belt check and engine check" in addition to the standard service in the owner's manual. The engine diagnostic on my invoice stated "no codes - all in factory spec". When I pointed out to the service writer that the Subaru maintenance schedule only called for an oil change and tire rotation, she said that it represents the "minimum maintenance" recommended by Subaru. When I mentioned that I didn't think Subaru would recommend a maintenance schedule that would increase the likelihood of incurring greater warranty claims, she said that their maintenance schedule was recommended based upon our climate and road conditions. (I just commented, "Hmmm, I never knew that living in Chicago constituted 'severe driving conditions'".)
    I guess I look at good maintenance as cheap insurance (which is why I authorized the service in advance) but on the other hand I don't like to be taken advantage of.
    At this point, I will still probably continue going to the dealer while I am in the warranty period, but I think I will scrutinize their recommended service procedures going forward.
    I'm curious what the Crew thinks about this situation.
    Thanks,
    Ron
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Did they actually checked those things? They may have adjusted the brake pedal, added distilled water to the battery, and looked for abnormalities on your accessory belts, etc.

    Still seems a bit steep for probably 30 minutes of labor or so.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Thought all the batteries were sealed nowadays?

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think you still can check the water levels and add water. The idea of a maintenance-free battery is a bit exxagerated.

    -juice
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    and specify what I want them to do. They cannot void your warranty for not getting their extra service. You are not getting "ripped off" unless they are not doing what they say they are. Most dealers use maintenance menus that charge a fixed price for their service and should have these posted so you can compare what they recommend to what is the minimum specified by the manufacturer.
  • armac13armac13 Member Posts: 1,129
    there are some rather questionable practices at some dealers. When I had my service done the dealer did a ATF change (not a flush, just a drop pan, refill with synthetic), adjusted the parking brake (without being asked), changed the oil, rotated the tires and did a routine check of all systems. Total cost $121.47C (about $30 US, actually about $79).

    Ross
  • rangerron7rangerron7 Member Posts: 317
    juice: I have no reason to believe that they didn't perform the maintenance but, as you point out the price does seem kind of steep.
    mike: The service writer said that it is a "maintenance battery" and they check the fluid level and put some anti- corrosive stuff on the terminals.
    Again, I'm just questioning whether a vehicle with less than 6,300 miles needs all of this "preventive maintenance". (BTW, I know I jumped the gun when it comes to the 7500 mile interval but I have had the vehicle for 9 months. I figured it was time to bring it in.)
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    They cannot do extra work without your consent. If you authorize a "7500 mile service" they have to have a set schedule they use to perform it. Any additional work must be authorized by the owner and you do not have to pay for any unauthorized work performed. I worked at Auto dealers for 20 years, and that has always been the case.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I always drop my keys off and never sign anything, just in case they pull any of that crap with me ;)
    Luckily I usually drop it off before they open so they can't nail me down to signing anything.

    -mike
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    After all this talk of the 7500 service, any recommendations on who to bring it to in the NYC area? (Mike - I want to stay away from SI) My 00 OB is just about there. Also, besides the tire rotation and oil change anything else I should ask for?

    Thanks,
    Mark
  • rangerron7rangerron7 Member Posts: 317
    I've got to be honest - I DID authorize the work and they did tell me up front how much it would cost. I really didn't give it much thought until I read Dsackman's post and the fact that the Sub's maintenance schedule only recommends an oil change and tire rotation. The dealer was up front in saying how much the charge would be. I chalk it up to my own ignorance of the suggested service procedures and my underlying belief that the dealer "knows best".
    After I get my warranty issue resolved (bad speaker that has taken 3 trips to fix, but that's another story) I'm having my service work performed by an independent mechanic. I have known for many years that dealer mechanics tend to just throw parts at a problem and hope that one of them fixes it. (This is precisely what is currently happening with my speaker/radio problem. The next trip to the dealer will be the third and there is no guarantee that it will be resolved.) I have had problems with dealer service departments in the past. I had a Chevy Blazer that required 8 trips to the dealer before they could properly diagnose and replace a cracked ball joint.
    OOPS, sorry! I kind of got off on a rant there.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I had very good luck with them as per Dennis' reccomendation to go there. It's a bit of a hike from the Island, but they do have sat appointments where they do actual repairs (not just oil changes) and seem very helpful from the few times I've used em. I absolutely hate the service @ SI Subaru/Isuzu, I hope I never see cecilia the B1tch who is one of the service writers again! Sorry bout the length of this post, but I absolutely can't stand the service I got on SI. Most of the other dealers in NYC I've heard similar if not worse problems. You might try Hillside on 22 in NJ also. Heard bad things about Bell in Rahway.

    -mike
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    Thanks Mike. I haven't dealt with Cecilia yet, but I have to agree with you about SI service. Their attitude can use vast improvement. They don't really seem to want to accomodate people who work during the day. Where or when are you supposed to get this service survey form? SI always includes a "sample" filled out in their favor, but I neber received a blank form to fill out from them. I'll give Flemington a call and see when I can schedule with them.

    Mark
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    I have had problems found when having a dealer's 7,500, 15,000, etc. maintenance's that would have gone unnoticed with just an oil change. A brake check in an area with snow and road salt could catch a sticking caliper piston before it could take out pads and rotors. That is one reason dealers add items by region. Finding a good service rep who can take the time to explain why they feel the need to add items is important, but you do have to remember that Service writers are paid on what business they sell. An independent shop can also gouge for unneeded service, so everyone needs to have an idea what the Manufacturer recommends. But remember, the manufacturer is specifying a minimum maintenance schedule to maintain the warranty. Another point to take into consideration, if you do have the maintenance performed at a dealer, you will generally have less hassles if a warranty conflict occurs. A dealer will push a zone rep harder for a regular customer than for one who only brings in their car for warranty service. The dealer will also have the complete service record, rather than your word that the maintenance was done on schedule. If you do have an independant do your work or do it yourself, make sure you save your receipts. I have seen too many times people claiming to have had services done when visual evidence shows otherwise.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I too thought "oh if I bring my car to X place all the time they'll help me out later on" I've been burned by at least 3 dealers when I had all maintenance and oil changes done @ the dealer, they didn't go to bat once for me with a manf. rep. In fact I am superiorly annoyed at SI subaru/isuzu for this very thing. I love the sales guys there, and have become very friendly with them, but the service department is like night and day. The service department knows my family has bought 4 cars from them, and i've sold at least 5-10 other cars for them over 2-3 years, and the service department still treats me like crap. I can only imagine what they would do to the normal joe. Mark, side note I always get them pre-filled out as well. I think they fill it out for you so they know they'll get an excellent review, they are merely sending you/us a copy of the review they sent to the tracking company! How's that for service.

    -mike
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    Checked with Flemington. They get $105 + tax for 7500 service. They do LOF, rotate tires, check brakes,belts, axle boot (?), and add fuel additive for the winter (still). Is this overkill? The good thing is they can do it in about an hour on a Saturday.

    I wish some of these dealers would add extra service hours like other manufacturers. I know my old Honda dealer used to be open till 9 pm 2 nights a week, and until 7 the rest of the time. It goes a long way to making it easier to get the service done.

    Mark
  • rangerron7rangerron7 Member Posts: 317
    Tincup...
    All of your points are valid.
    I have had good luck with my independent mechanic though. He has worked on 4 of our vehicles so I feel confident in his abilities and also that he's not going to rip me off. Unfortunately, I have had too many bad experiences with dealer service departments in the past.
    But, your point about warranty claims is a good one. I do try and make a point of saving every service receipt on my vehicles, regardless of how old the vehicle is.
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    But the ones I worked at valued their regular customers. Keeping records is still very important, especially oil changes.
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    From memory, this is a couple of add-ons I had on a prior service (Bell). $8 Oil additive, $8 fuel additive, $2.00 washer fluid. I don't think any area of the country calls for oil or fuel additives. NJ has plenty of fuel additives and I don't think any oil manufacture advises the use of oil additives. ;)
    Dennis
  • tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    are like paint packages, they do add to the dealer profit. I always tell any shop working on my vehicle I will not pay for any non-factory specified additives added to my vehicle against my wishes. It is my car, and I will determine what goes into it. It goes along with being an informed consumer, take control of the process.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You see? This is why I do everything I can myself.

    My 7500 oil change cost me $7. Since them I've switched to OE filter, so I spend a whopping $9 per oil change!

    I spent about half of that (the 7500 service cost) on my 30k service!

    -juice
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Anything over $25 for a 7500 mile service is pure dealer profit and leaning way towards dishonesty. The normal oil change includes checking all fluid levels and visually inspecting brakes etc. If something needs adjusting, it should be covered under the warranty. My question is why would you pre-approve well over $100 worth of work for a fancy oil change? You guys are way to trusting.

    -Frank P.
  • rangerron7rangerron7 Member Posts: 317
    BTW, this dealer also pushes the fuel additives, etc. Unfortunately I can't remember the exact name of these "treatments" but I do recall seeing these in BOLD type on their service charts that are posted behind the service writer's desk.
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    And that's why I now do my own oil changes as well. It's really a piece of cake on these cars.

    FrankP - As for pre-approving, everytime I dropped of my car I signed a blank work order (duh!). In this case it was early in the morning and the Audi rep. was the only one there (Subaru/Audi dealer). Funny thing is, I even gave them a copy of a letter I received in the mail that said "Ask us how you can get this service for free". Someone was supposed to call me at work but never did. The Service Mangager is no longer there either. Probably due to the complaints.

    Dennis
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The Audi link explains it! ;-)

    -juice
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