Lease Questions - Ask Here

ortega · January 2005

05 TLs with NAVI, 36 mos, are at 58% residual and .00235 money factor.

jbaer · January 2005

Car_man - we will be buying the car in Washington state. Any idease on how they calculate taxes there? Thanks - Jeffer

vcopell · January 2005

Dear car_man,

I am looking to lease a car (ES 330 2005 with Navigation system + other features). The car MSRP = 36,133

TMV = 35,469 (I think Edmunds' is too high !!)

Invoice = $31,863

I am Dallas, Tx. I have never leased a car before. This will be to drive atleast 13,000 miles year. This is a business car (company pays the leases).

Can you please guide me here as to what should I look for in negotiations? My credit score is high so that should not be a problem.

What is money factor?

Thanks, vick (vcopell@yahoo.com)

(Anyones else ready to help, welcome to write back).

Do you have residual and money factor numbers for the 05 TL automatic with Navi at 15K miles for 36 months?

Any information on what the purchase price should be?

Thanks for the help!

CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

Hi Chigirl. I'm saddened by the lack of popularity of the manual transmission as well

. If your daughter was to lease a 2005 Honda Civic Civic EX Coupe Special Edition through American Honda Finance Corp. right now for 36 months (its special lease program is only good for leases of up to 36 months in length) with 15,000 miles per year, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00136 and 54%, respectively. The unsupported numbers for an otherwise identical 48 month lease of this car should be .00225 and 46%.

As far as your daughter's trade goes, it would be in her best interest to have the dealer that she is getting her Civic from cut her a check for it rather than using the proceeds as a capitalized cost reduction. I always advise consumers against making any sort of down payment when leasing. I do so for two main reasons. The first is if your vehicle is totaled in an accident or stolen during your lease, your insurance company pays off the bank that you were leasing it through and your down payment essentially disappears. The second main reason is that down payments on leased vehicles do nothing to reduce their lease-end purchase prices. So your lease-end purchase option price for this Civic would be exactly the same, regardless of whether your daughter had put $3,000 down, or had made absolutely no down payment at all.

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CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

You're welcome, Tom. Yes, that is how I arrived at the lease payment that I calculated for you. While Subaru is providing a $1,500 cash incentive on 2005 Legacy models through its captive finance company, it does not have a similar incentive on the Outback at this time.

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CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

No problem, wagagog. If you can get this vehicle for $500 over invoice and then have any available cash incentives deducted from its price, I would indeed say that you are getting a good deal.

For whatever reason, Subaru's residual values for the Legacy GT Limited Wagon are indeed 2% higher than its residuals for the non-Limited version. You're right that expensive options normally lower a model's residual value percentages, but their impact upon residuals all depends upon their price. Let's say that rather than $2,000 a manufacturer decided to offer navigation on their vehicles for $100. In this case, the addition of navigation would actually probably increase the vehicle's residual value percentage. Perhaps the Limited version of this vehicle is a good value when one compares the options that they get to its price. Or perhaps for some reason people find non-Limited versions less desirable on the open market. Furthermore, it is possible that Subaru is artificially inflating this model's resids. There are a number of possible reasons why the Limited's residuals are higher.

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CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

You're very welcome, jpl. I am glad that I was able to help you out. Congratulations on your new car and enjoy!

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CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

Hi Rick. I can give you an idea of what Lexus' lease program is like on this car right now. Unfortunately, Lexus did not carry over the lease support that it was providing on the 2005 LS 430 in December over to January. As a result, it you were to lease this car through Lexus Financial Services right now, you would have to use its standard lease program. Its base standard lease money factor for consumers who qualify for its "Tier 1" credit tier is .00205 in most areas. The 36 and 39 month, 12,000 miles per year residual values for the '05 LS 430 Custom Luxury should currently be 55% and 52%, respectively.

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CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

Hello rob222. You never mentioned the exact selling price or MSRP of the truck that you are interested in leasing. These are important numbers for you as a consumer to know for two reasons. First, the selling prices of leased vehicles can be negotiated, just as if you were paying cash for them. Without knowing these prices for this Touareg you don't know how good a deal you are getting on it. The second reason is that one needs to know these prices is that it they are necessary to calculate lease payments. I would be more than happy to work up a sample lease payment on the truck that you are interested in for you using Volkswagen's actual lease program if you let me know what these prices are. You can then compare the payment that I cam up with to the one that you were quoted.

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CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

You're very welcome, upndwn. Sorry about the confusion. When I stated that most dealers "are in good shape" with their A4 inventory, I indeed meant that there is not an oversupply of A4s out there in most areas at this time. Of course, this is a general statement and exact inventory levels will vary from dealer to dealer.

Most manufacturers' advertised lease payments leave a little room for negotiation. Even taking the fact that dealers are doing a decent job selling their remaining A4s into account, you definitely should be able to get more of a discount than $500 on this car right now, especially considering the arrival of the redesigned model in the near future.

Good luck in your negotiations and make sure to stop back and let us all know how everything turns out.

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CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

You're welcome again, gwudc

.

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CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

You're welcome wifrbr. Vehicles' residual values are not negotiable. They are set by the banks that the vehicle is being leased though and individual dealers do not have the authority to alter them.

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P.S. upndwn is right that some banks will let consumers negotiate lower residual values for vehicles, but never higher ones. A lower residual value will cause your lease payment to go up though and is only to your advantage if someone is making your lease payments for you, but you will have the option to purchase your leased vehicle at the end of the lease.

CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

Hey prince812. Let's work up a sample lease payment on this car for you and see what we come up with. Even though dealers in your area are not providing any discounts on this car, you should at least be able to get them to give you the $1,000 bonus that DaimlerChrysler is giving consumers who finance or lease any Chrysler 300 through Chrysler Financial right now. According to my calculations, if you were to lease a 2005 Chrysler 300C 2WD with an MSRP of $37,100 and a selling price of $36,100 through Chrysler Financial this month for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, its zero down, pre-tax monthly payment should be around $615.

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CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

Hey John. Unfortunately, manufacturers' captive finance companies do not deal directly with the general public. If you called up American Honda Finance Corp. and asked them to tell you what a vehicle's current lease program is, they would most likely tell you to consult your local dealer. If you were to lease a 2005 Acura TL with navigation through AHFC right now for 36 months with 15,000 miles per year, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00235 and 57%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical 39 month lease should be .00235 and 53%. In general, most vehicles' residual values drop 2% when they are equipped with navigation, but his rule is not set in stone. The exact variation varies by bank and even from month to month within banks. For the length leases that you are considering, AHFC currently only has a 1% difference between TLs equipped with and without navigation.

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CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

Hey toyotajim. The most important numbers to find out when negotiating a lease with a dealer are the vehicle's selling price, either in relation to its full MSRP or invoice price, and the lease money factor that was used to calculate its lease payment. Remember that the selling prices of leased vehicles are negotiable, just as if you were financing or paying cash for them. Vehicle's money factors are not negotiable in that one can not get dealers to lower bank's published factors, but dealers often can mark up money factors to add additional profit to deals. Make sure to find out what these two numbers are on any lease that you are considering. Edmunds.com has a very informative article on leasing that you may want to check out: 10 Steps to Leasing a New Car

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CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

Greetings Gina. Here is the information that you are looking for. If you were to lease a 2005 Volkswagen Jetta GLS 2.0L Sedan through VW Credit right now for 36 months with 15,000 miles per year, its base lease money factor and residual value should be an attractive .00004 and 52%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical lease of the wagon version of this vehicle should be .00081 and 51%. The money factors for leases with 12,000 miles per year would be the same, but the residual values would be 2% higher.

The $1,000 dealer cash incentive that you saw is not compatible with VW Credit's special lease program, but VW is providing a $700 cash incentive on leases of the GLS 2.0L Sedan through VW Credit right now. This money will help you to negotiate an attractive capitalized cost.

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CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

Hey valleydriver. Let's take a look at the lease program for the new vehicle that you are considering. If you were to lease a 2005 Honda Element EX 2WD through American Honda Finance Corp. right now for 36 months with 15,000 miles per year, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00250 and 54%, respectively. The Element is a decent truck for the money and it will provide you with quite a bit of room, but it definitely will not be as fun to drive as the Mazda3 would be.

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CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

You're very welcome, sgsunny. You did a great job of providing all the necessary information to calculate a lease payment on this car in your post. Let's work up a sample lease payment on this car for you so that we can compare it to the one that you have been quoted. According to my calculations, if you were to lease a 2005 Acura TL without navigation with an MSRP of $33,470 and a selling price of $32,000 (I have a feeling that you can do better than TMV) through American Honda Finance Corp. right now for 39 months (I have not seen this car's 42 month program recently) with 15,000 miles per year, its zero down, pre-tax monthly payment should be around $505. Estimating what AHFC's 42 month program for this car is probably like, it would drop the payment to around $464 or so. The payment that you were quoted looks pretty good to me, but it definitely is not based upon a selling price that is anywhere near invoice. A 39 month, 15k lease of this car through AHFC at invoice would have a pre-tax payment of around $419 or so.

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CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

Hi cheng6991. You can get a good deal on this car by negotiating an attractive selling price and then making sure that the dealer that you are working with uses BMW Financial Services' base lease program to calculate your car's payment. When negotiating this car's selling price, or capitalized cost, keep in mind that BMW is providing $3,800 dealer cash on it this month. This cash incentive will help you you to negotiate an attractive price. Once you have arrived at a selling price that you feel comfortable with, make sure that the dealer that you are getting your car from uses BMW Financial Services' 3 year, 10,000 miles per lease program, money factor = .00225 and residual value = 56%, to calculate your payment.

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CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

No problem, sfowler2. I am not personally familiar with how sales tax is calculated on leased vehicle in your state, but you may be able to find out by visiting one of the following sites: Virginia Department of Motor Vehicles or Virginia Department of Taxation.

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CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

Hi dawnied. I am sure that the Los Angeles market is probably much more competitive than your area is. I noticed that you mentioned putting $3,000 down when leasing this truck in your post. I always advise consumers against making any sort of down payment when leasing. I do so for two main reasons. The first is if your vehicle is totaled in an accident or stolen during your lease, your insurance company pays off the bank that you were leasing it through and your down payment essentially disappears. The second main reason is that down payments on leased vehicles do nothing to reduce their lease-end purchase prices. So your lease-end purchase option price for this 4Runner would be exactly the same, regardless of whether you had put $3,000 down, or had made absolutely no down payment at all. I personally doubt that this truck can be had for $300 per month with zero down, but this is the way to go. Call or e-mail a few dealers before going all the way to Los Angeles to find out the selling price of the 4Runner that you want and then have them work up a lease payment on it for you using the price that you have agreed to.

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CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

Wow, three years ago, huh, abrec? You're making me feel old

. Here is the information that you are looking for. If you were to lease a 2005 Acura TL with navigation through American Honda Finance Corp. right now for 36 months with 15,000 miles per year, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00235 and 57%, respectively. I am not personally all that familiar with what the market is like for this car in your area right now, but you may be able to get an idea by visiting the following discussion: "Acura TL: Prices Paid & Buying Experience".

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CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

You had the money factor right, ortega, but the residual value for the '05 TL with navigation is only 57%. The 58% residual is for TL models without navigation.

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CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

You're welcome, Jeffer. I don't know how sales tax is calculated on leased vehicles in Washington state, but you may be able to find out by visiting the following sites: Washington Department of Licensing or Washington State Department of Revenue.

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CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

Welcome to the wonderful world of leasing, Vick. since you have never leased before, you may want to check out the following informative articles that are available here at Edmunds.com: 10 Steps to Leasing a New Car and Calculate Your Own Lease Payment.

As far as the specific car that you are considering goes, you're right, I personally don't think that you will have much trouble getting it for less than the TMV price that is listed on this site. Negotiate as attractive a price as possible on this car, and the calculate a lease payment using the formula that is outlined in the above article, a 36 month money factor of .00145, and a 36 month, 15,000 miles per year residual value of 56% (without navigation).

You should be able to find out the TL info that you are looking for by looking at a few of my recent messages. Good luck and make sure to let me know if you have any other questions.

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wagagog · January 2005

Thanks, Car Man!

I transcribed the invoice price wrong when I calculated the lease, so the monthly payment ended up being a bit higher than I had first (mis)figured.

But, I went for it anyway. The Legacy GT was just too seductive. My wife was rational enough to see the 2.5i was sufficient, but the turbo charmed me after I drove it, and there was no going back . . . especially since there was a nice winding road I could throw it around on during the test drive.

This is what I ended up with: $318/month for 48 months on a GT wagon with the Pop. Equip. Group 1 and the Rear Cargo Tray.

The buying experience was as good as any I've had. No pressure, no trickery. If it wasn't for my mistake transcribing the invoice price, it would have been entirely casual and seamless. The dealership was willing to take a smaller profit than I had originally offered to help get my monthly payment down $10. They instantly verified the MF and residual you had given me.

Oh, I had also not added in the "Assignment Fee" to the cap. cost; it was $595. Even though these things made the price a bit higher than I had originally figured, I still feel like I got a good deal . . . and I highly recommend Langston Subaru to anyone in the Pittsburgh, PA area.

Thank you once again, Car Man, for helping me with another car lease. You're brilliant!

vcopell · January 2005

Car Man:

Thanks for your help and guidance here. This certainly arms me with some information before I start talking Lease etc.

I will sure to let you know how it went.

Q: When I ran the Calculator for Buy versus Lease, it tells me that I am better off buying. THis is for business use and I fell Lease will make the expensing easier. Any comments or guidance on that?

Thanks, Vick

rlefort · January 2005

Car Man-

Local dealers are offering this car for lease $369, 36 month, $4000 down. What do you think?

Also, is there an easy way to retrieve and follow a specific message thread in these forums?

Thanks.

rbarone · January 2005

CarMan, I have been researching a lease on a 2005 Chevy Blazer with auto trans and ZR2 package with dealers over the internet.Since i live in New York no more leasing they call it a SmartBuy. The quotes i have received are from 378 to 399 per month which include taxes for 3 years with no money down. Do these numbers sound right? Thanks.

cmz · January 2005

CarMan. Here I am, again, three years later requesting your lease calculation assistance. This time I am considering a 2004 Murano SL AWD with the Touring Pkg. MSRP is $35,080. I have not started to negotiate because I would like to know if I can qualify for a Nissan lease. Credit score of mid 600s which should put me at the high Tier 3 level. What MF and residual can I expect? Thanks in advance.

suebeedux · January 2005

I am about to buy an Infiniti QX56. I have waited for the 2005 because of the problems.

Do you know if any of the problems have been addressed?

I have educated myself on leasing and have a good understanding of how it all works but what I don't know is what money factor should I be looking for with this car? Also what are considered reasonable fees (acquisition, gap insurance, etc.)? Can you give a breakdown?

As far as residual, I have the Black Book and it shows 56% for 3 year and 49% for 4 year. Is this accurate?

Last of all, how much should I be paying over invoice for this car (fully loaded with DVD system, sticker $55,400)?

Thanks

prince812 · January 2005

Car_man,

Thanks for the help. The dealers were not offering the 1,000 from Chrysler so I am glad you told me about it. Those payments are a little higher than I would like so I am also considering the 2005 Toyota Avalon.

Hopefully I will have some bargaining room with the Avalon, but I may have to pay an MSRP of $37,395. Through Toyotas leasing program for 3 years at 15K, what would a lease payment look like? Is Toyota offering any incentives?

jbaer · January 2005

Car_man -

I won't be buying the accord and pilot until May or June of this year. Does AHFC typically have some sort of deal going all year round or will I just be on my own? Is the summer typically a good time or bad time to lease a new care? Also what is the residual on the accord and pilot for 36 months that you used? 48months? Finally I assume the money factor is just another way of expressing an interest rate and the rate will depend on my credit rating. How do I go about getting the best money factor? Do I call around to banks? online service? What should I expect to get if I have a credit rating in the 700 range? Thanks a million.

Jeff

CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

No problem, wagagog. I can understand your infatuation with turbo. The car I am currently driving has a turbocharged engine and I love it. Congratulations on your new ride and enjoy!

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CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

You're very welcome, Vick. I am not an accountant, so I really can not tell you whether purchasing or buying would be better for you tax wise. It would be in your best interest to consult your accountant prior to leasing or financing a new vehicle.

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CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

Hi rlefort. the first problem that I have with this lease is the whopping $4,000 down payment. I always advise consumers against making any sort of down payment when leasing. I do so for two main reasons. The first is if your vehicle is totaled in an accident or stolen during your lease, your insurance company pays off the bank that you were leasing it through and your down payment essentially disappears. The second main reason is that down payments on leased vehicles do nothing to reduce their lease-end purchase prices. So your lease-end purchase option price for this ES 3330 would be exactly the same, regardless of whether you had put $4,000 down, or had made absolutely no down payment at all.

I would be more than happy to give you my opinion of this deal, but in order for me to do so I need you to provide me with this car's full MSRP, including destination charges, and its selling price. Remember that the selling prices of leased vehicles are negotiable, just as if you were paying cash. Without knowing this car's selling price, in relation to its full MSRP or invoice price, it is difficult to tell how good a deal you are getting. Furthermore, the MSRPs and selling prices of vehicles are necessary to calculate lease payments on them. I can work up a sample lease payment on this car for you using Lexus' actual lease program if you give me these numbers. We then can compare the payment that I come up with to the one that you were quoted.

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CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

Hi rbarone. Unfortunately, I do not follow General Motors' SmartBuy program all that closely, so I do not know the details of its current SmartBuy offer on this truck. I would be able to work up a sample lease payment on it for you though. This Blazer's lease payment would not be exactly the same as its balloon note payment, but since the monthly payments that are provided by GM's SmartLease and SmartBuy programs are usually relatively close, it would at least give you an idea of what sort of payment to expect.

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CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

Hi again cmz. Wow, three years later huh? Time certainly flies. Nissan Motor Acceptance Corp. used to allow consumers who qualified for its top three credit tiers qualify for its best lease money factors. I believe, but am not absolutely positive, that this is still the case. If you were to lease a 2004 Nissan Murano SL AWD through NMAC right now for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00165 and 55%, respectively. Nissan seems to be providing the most lease support on 42 month leases of this model this month. Its numbers for an otherwise identical 42 month lease should be .00093 and 53%, respectively.

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CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

Hi suebeedux. I have heard about a number of consumers having problems with the Infiniti QX56 and Nissan Armada, but do not know how prevalent they are lately. You may be able to find out more information on this subject by visiting the "Infiniti QX56" discussion that appears here on the Edmunds.com Forums.

I would be more than happy to give you an idea of what this truck's current lease program is like. If you were to lease a 2005 Infiniti QX56 AWD through Infiniti Financial Services right now for 36 months with 15,000 miles per year, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00176 and 53%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical 4 year lease of this truck should be .00179 and 44%.

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CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

No problem, prince812. Toyota has not introduced a 2005 Avalon. It is in the process of redesigning this car, but I believe that its redesigned version of the Avalon may end up being a 2006 model. I can tell you about the 2004 Avalon if you would like.

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CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

Jeff, Honda's current lease program is scheduled to run through February 28th. If you lease either of these models after this date, you would have to use a different lease program. Check back with me during the month that you plan on leasing and I will be more than happy to fill you in on the lease program that is available at that time. There's nothing wrong with getting a new vehicle during the summer, but you may want to lean towards getting your new car and truck at the end of the month when dealers often seem a little more willing to deal.

A vehicle's lease money factor is indeed used to determine the interest portion of lease payments. You can convert a money factor into an approximate interest rate equivelent by multiplying it by 2400. One can not negotiate a vehicle's money factor in that dealers do not have the authority to use a lower money factor than the one that a bank publishes to calculate a vehicle's lease payment. Dealers can often mark-up vehicle's money factors to add additional back-end profit to deals though, so it pays to know what a bank's published money factors are. Banks will not provide this information directly to the general public, but I should be able to give you an idea of what the lease program is like on a vehicle at any given time if you ask me.

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kbrown · January 2005

Hi Carman, I have an offer to lease an 04 G35 AWD Sedan w/Premium Pkg for $497(incl. tax) per month with only $500 total out of pocket at inception, with 18k miles per year and they will pay the $2400 I still owe on my 02 Pathfinder. Is this a good deal or would I be able to get a similar deal in 6 months on an 05 when I turn in my pathfinder? I guess what I'm trying to determine is if this deal is outstanding or is it something I will be able to match in 6 months...

llil19 · January 2005

Hi Car_Man

Thanks for your prompt response.

Actually I didn't find out till 7 days later and I have since gotten insurance. So it's in the past but should I tell the dealer. If so, for what reason since it's in the past?

Thanks a lot Car-Man,

19.

prince812 · January 2005

I guess I will have to wait awhile then.

Can you tell me if Toyota/Lexus use the same money factors for their vehicles?

Or is Toyota/Lexus running some kind of lease incentive program for their Avalon or any of the Lexus vehicles?

I guess I am looking for any differences between the GM lease program for the 300C and the Toyota/Lexus program on the Avalon or any Lexus vehicle.

I hope I gave you enough information to work with.

You really are a great help.

eegs2k · January 2005

Hi Car man,

Here's one for ya.....Are there any deals out there right now that are just really great on leases? I am looking at getting into something I can fit a family of 4 plus 2 dogs into with AWD or 4wd preferred. Any great deals on wagons, utes, or MVs? I am in PA.

Thanks

kyfdx · January 2005

Just my $0.02.. You can lease a $30K Honda Pilot EX for 3yr/45K with no cap cost reduction for about $375/mo plus tax.. Maybe a little less, if you are a tough negotiator..

regards,

kyfdx

CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

Hi kbrown. It is difficult for me to tell you how good a deal you were quoted without knowing the full MSRP and selling price of the vehicle that you are considering. Remember that the selling prices of used vehicles can be negotiated, just as if you were paying cash. Without knowing what the selling price of this car is, in relation to its full MSRP, it is difficult to tell how much of a discount you are being given. Furthermore, I need the full MSRP, including destination charges, and selling price of this car to calculate a lease payment on it. I would be more than happy to work up a payment on this car for you using Infiniti's actual lease program and give you my opinion of this offer if you let me know these numbers.

To be honest with you, there is nothing special about Infiniti's lease program on this car right now. You certainly would be much better off waiting until you are closer to the scheduled end of your Pathfinder lease before leasing a new vehicle.

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eegs2k · January 2005

yes I have seen the deals on those and they are very nice. I am trying to keep my payment below 300 though (if possible). I should've specified that in my other post.

Thanks for the info though.

CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

You're welcome, llil19. I don't see any reason to tell anyone that you were without insurance for several days on this car as long as you have insurance on it now. No one will probably even care. In the unlikely event that they do, you are causing unnecessary problems for yourself when they probably would have never known the difference.

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CarMan@Edmunds · January 2005

Prince812, Lexus Financial Services' and Toyota Financial Services' standard lease money factors are usually very similar, but the special lease money factors that Toyota provides on a number of Lexus and Toyota models vary from model to model, from month to month, and sometimes even from region to region. There is currently a decent amount of lease support on several Lexus cars, including the ES 330, GS 300, GS 430, and IS 300. Toyota is no longer providing lease support on any 2004 models, including the Avalon. The lease program on several Lexus cars is currently more attractive than DaimlerChrysler's lease program on the 300C.

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