Subaru Crew - Future Models

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  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    With this information about the outside temp? If you are driving in any 30s weather you should be assuming that there is going to be ice on the roads. If you are stuck in bumper to bumper traffic in hot weather, what are you going to do, stop driving if the outside temp get's too high?

    Using the outside temp guage as a "safety feature" is a pretty far fetched, almost as far fetched as a centrally located clock (no one has pagers, phones or watches with clocks on em in your cars?)

    -mike
  • yellowbikedonyellowbikedon Member Posts: 228
    I'd have to agree with Mike (Paisan). My '92 SVX had an outside temp gauge which, like the H6 models, would display temp only when the button was pushed. I would also think once "warned" of freezing conditions, a driver might adjust without having to "see" it was 32 degrees.

    I feel the information is useful but not as an off-set to defensive driving. Now, I must add that I'm waiting for delivery of my L.L.Bean wagon in another week or so and thus, I may be a bit prejudiced!

    Don
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    That is going to likely replace my '88 XT6 when the time comes. I love the SVX! Selling your's Don?

    :)

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Well, you can slow down if it's 35 degrees or colder and you're approaching a bridge.

    OK, there Soobs so that's less relevant. ;)

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The information that his gauge provides is useful. As Juice said, if you're "consciously" aware of what the outside conditions are, you can make better informed driving decisions.

    Hey, guys look - it's not that big a deal. I like having that information available to me at all times, and you don't. That's cool.

    Bob
  • yellowbikedonyellowbikedon Member Posts: 228
    Mike,

    Unfortunately, I sold the SVX to buy my '96 Outback. The black coupe had low 50k miles and was in top shape. The major drawback was the inability to put a bike rack on the roof due to the window configuration. After watching my bike "swing in the breeze" when attacked to a trunk rack, that was incentive to get the wagon.

    The SVX was, without question, the best car I've owned and that includes M.G.s, Alfa Romeos, Peugeots, an Acura Legand and assorted American "iron" such as Plymouth station wagons, a Pontiac wagon, and in my college days, a Studebaker Champion convertible and a Nash Rambler wagon!

    If only the SVX has a stick transmission! As a touring coupe, its manners were impeccable, the sound system including tape and CD good, the speed sensitive wipers amazing, etc. And yes, once I learned where to stop at toll booths, I did receive smiles and comments about the side windows!

    One reason I'm buying the H6 is to enjoy the additional power from its engine. I have driven the six and do agree that performance "off the line" isn't earthshaking. Yet, once the wagon is moving, it's not hard to tell a six is present. Another main impression was how very quiet the car was even at 60 mph with a roof rack.

    At approximately $1,000 more than a fully loaded Outback LTD model, I continue to believe the L.L.Bean wagon is an outstanding buy.

    Don
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    I've been wondering about that Tribute ad campaign. If being "raised by sports cars" (i.e. Miatas) supposedly makes the Tribute a sportier SUV, what does that say about the Forester, built on the same floorplan as sports cars (i.e., Imprezas)?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    You probably sold the SVX at the right time. I've heard that around 70,000 miles or so, you can expect serious transmission problems.

    Bob
  • miksmimiksmi Member Posts: 1,246
    Mike (paisan), I'm referring to the case where one is driving on the periphery of a weather front, especially a cold front. At night, without visual reference to weather patterns, it's difficult to ascertain the ambient air temperature (unless you're driving with the windows open). I like information that assists me to evaluate the road conditions, especially in an unfamiliar area. I experienced a drastic weather change on 8/9 April 2000 at the Valley Forge, PA, SCOA meet (hehe, remember? ;) . It was in the 80's Saturday and I was running the air conditioning. That night a cold front trundled in and it snowed three inches! Had I been driving during that temperature declension, I would have appreciated knowing the ambient temperature (especially if the snow had been preceded by rain). Just my USD 0.02.

    ..Mike

    ..Mike

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Bean's the bargain, I agree. VDC gets all the attention, though.

    lark: I own a Miata, and the Tribute is about as far away as possible from a Miata. The Forester is much, much closer.

    If an SUV were really raised by sports cars, it would be light weight, with a short wheel base, a longitudinally mounted engine, not overly powerful but agile and nimble, definitely not FWD by default, plus low clearance/center of gravity.

    In other words, it would be a Forester.

    A Tribute is really none of those things.

    -juice
  • ramonramon Member Posts: 825
    A Forester will spank that tribute like a red headed stepchild in a slalom test! hahahaha..... BTW, saw a jet black Forester S or something.... so nice. It's tinted black too. Then some stupid CR-V EX (note....similar pronounciation to a women's part) with it's dumb EX stickers pulled behind me obscuring my view.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I believe mazda should be saying it was raised by a contour, since from what I've read it basically is a raised contour... Which IMHO is a piece o garbage!

    -mike
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Well if you were gonna be taking a trip (a case where you wouldn't know the front was coming in) then as a prepared driver you would check the weather of your route. If it's a short hop in the car, then you would know it's cold out. I like all the guages as well, but to say it's a safety insrument is ridiculous!

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    the compass. I like having all that extra information available to me at all times.

    Two weeks ago, the wife and I were exploring the mountains west of Frederick Maryland, up near and behind Camp David. We forgot to bring a map, and we were on some great roads - so great in fact, I lost complete track of where I was headed. I sort of knew where I was, and used the compass on the mirror to get me back to familiar grounds. Without the compass, I'd still be somewhere in Western Maryland (... and enjoying the ride!).

    A few years ago I thought a car compass was a needless gadget. I don't anymore.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I live in the country. I know for a fact that temperature changes can occur rapidly and drasticly over a short span of road.

    There is one road that I travel almost daily that is full of curves and rather hilly. In the winter I have seen in a span of of less than four miles where the temperature has varied as much as 7 degrees. That could easily be the difference between ice on the road and just a wet road.

    I'm sure anybody who lives in mountainous areas can atest to even greater temperature changes over short road distances.

    To me the outside temperature gauge is very much a safety item.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I always keep my GPS attachement for my laptop in the car and a regular map book (a subaru one at that which I got at the NY Auto show last year) in the car. A compass is up there with the "cutiesy" gadgets in my mind. Give us an oil pressure, and voltage guage before the stupid compass and outside temp!!!! Those are actually useful guages. I love all kinds of guages, but I'm playing the devil's advocate here. If it were up to me I'd like to have an LCD panel of sorts that I could configure my own dashboard with whatever I want on it :)

    -mike
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    What is the stated accuracy of these said guages? +/- what? 2nd I feel it is just an excuse not to drive safetly at all times. If it's winter, assume any wetness on the road may or may not be frozen. I too travel to the country (mountains upstate NY) and the temp differneces can be as high as 15 degrees in a 5 mile strip, but when it's in the 30s and 40s I always assume the worst case scenario.

    I guess a clock is safety equipment too? We might forget what time it is? Perhaps we should add a calender so we will know what time of year it is?

    :)

    -mike
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    In the winter I have seen in a span of of less than four miles where the temperature has varied as much as 7 degrees. That could easily be the difference between ice on the road and just a wet road.

    1. Going even average winter road speeds, you will encounter new temperatures before they are registered on the temperature probe.

    2. You are measuring air temperature anyway, and road temperature matters a lot more. Just like everyone that doesn't have outside temperature gauges, you can simply watch for elevated roads and slow down.

    Between this any your "everything must be lighted" instrument panel demands, I'm starting to think you just like to whine Bob. ;-)

    -Colin
  • aakersonaakerson Member Posts: 71
    I can't resist weighing in on the ridiculous thermometer issue. (a VERY slow day today at work) I had a Beemer that chimed whenever the temp was within 5 degrees of freezing. I guess it was a safety feature, but it took me a while to figure out it meant (what owner's manual) I thought it was just another bit of the electrics out of control, which was a common event. I will admit, thought, it was a good reminder that the roads could be a little slicker than they looked.

    The most useful aspect of the thermometer in the car -- I used it all the time on my way to jogging, so that I could know the temperature right then and there at the time of my run, and bundle up or down accordingly. Could avoid calling time-and-temp, listening for the radio station to report temp way out at the airport, and sticking my hand out the window (which never worked anyway)

    Now -- let me go back to question I asked once before -- does anyone know if the seat warmers on an OB can somehow be dialed hotter? I've had them check it once, but you put them on high, and they remain tepid at best. (this is so trivial, it makes the thermometer issue look downright important)
  • ramonramon Member Posts: 825
    Well the mondeo/contour platform is actually quite good for a mid size sedan. I drove Mystique Sport and it handled quite good. The engine's pretty peppy too. I prefer it over the cavaliers. Must be the Sport designation. =)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Cervix, love it!

    Bob: your story tends to argue *against* having a compass. Enjoy the ride! :)

    paisan: my turn to play devil's advocate. The person doing 4 wheel drifts in his Trooper is telling us to drive safely all the time? ;)

    I'd like an oil pressure gauge too. I'm just busting your chops!

    Alan: I'd ask a dealer about the heat.

    The Tribute actually rides on a modified 626 platform, but uses a Ford powertrain (Duratec 3.0l V6 engine and CD4E tranny). That engine actually comes from the Taurus, though the tranny comes from the Contour. Kind of a parts-bin exercise, minus any quality each of the originals had.

    -juice
  • kate5000kate5000 Member Posts: 1,271
    I want ALL possible gauges and displays, analog and digital. Voltemeter, oil pressure, temperature, compass, altitute, longitude, latitude, GPS coordinates, current cycle of the moon... not enough space on the dash? Well, ok, speedo can go. I'm never too slow anyway, but if I'm too fast, there are always gentlemen around, in black-and-white cars, to remind me about the speed limit...
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Drifts: Well, if I did get into an accident I wouldn't complain about it! :) I drive @ my own risk. But since someone said the temp guage was a "safety feature" I figured they should be the one driving safetly not me :)

    Tribute/Contour: oh the contour handles nicely, less the QC problems (my buddy has one and it's been nothing but problems, as well as his 2 brothers they have 2 also) Out of the 3 Contours not one had a stitch of QC in it (door handles falling off, glove boxes, brakes warping, tranny problems, all kinds of problems) The tribute/escape doesn't look to be any better. Did I mention today how much I hate fords?

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    What about a built-in radar detector to warn you of those black-and-white cars, too?

    -juice
  • miksmimiksmi Member Posts: 1,246
    current cycle of the moon hehe, thanks for injecting a little humor here, Kate.

    ..Mike

  • lergeson1lergeson1 Member Posts: 15
    I just got a call from Subaru of Thousand Oaks and they have just received an LL Bean H-6. The internet manager called me and asked if I wanted to schedule a test drive. I told him I would check my schedule and see if I couldn't make some time to go out tomorrow, as he is there until 9:00 pm (His name was Russell).

    I just thought you and others might be interested in test driving the H-6, although you are awaiting your VDC.

    -Leif
  • oyoungoyoung Member Posts: 10
    Greetings, all!

    I am contemplating upgrading my car and figured this was the place to ask Subaru questions.

    I currently own a '97 VW Golf Trek. Fun car, but with 2 kids (3yo and 18mos), it gets a bit cramped, especially with my folks moving 8 hrs away. I had thought about the Audi S4 Avant, but $40k or so is a bit steep. Thought about settling for an A4 Avant, but they just seem too small - not really gaining that much in cargo space.

    Which brings me to Subaru. Love the look of the Legacy GT wagon - there's just too many Outbacks around here (CT/NY). Now for the questions:

    Is the V6 available in the GT? And, more importantly, is it available with a stick? If not, what is the overall concensus for the sportiest of the Outbacks available? And finally, what would this bad boy set me back? I could go to the local dealer, but I figured I'd get some straight answers before having to deal with salesmen!

    Thanks to all for your input. If I'm in the wrong place, just point me in the right direction!
    Oliver
  • ramonramon Member Posts: 825
    Nope. Not right now. The GT will remain as a 4 banger delivering 165hp. Still ok. But wish it has the H6 in it with manual. That would be awesome. Who knows.... in a few year's time.
  • oyoungoyoung Member Posts: 10
    Oh well, such is life. Perhaps I shouldn't ask this question here, but i will anyway ...

    How does the GT wagon compare to a Passat V6 4Motion? I like the GT's look better than the Outback, more stealthy and sportier.

    Thanks again!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    paisan: I was waiting for your daily dose of Ford criticism! ;)

    Oliver: not to pick on you, but Soobs use horizontally-opposed or Boxer engines, not V6s. The H6 is only offered on the LL Bean and VDC Outbacks, though, and only with automatic.

    I feel the sleeper sports sedan in the lineup is the GT wagon 5 speed. Check one out - they nearly match the H6's acceleration since they're lighter and because smaller diameter tires give them a 7% edge in gearing.

    We jokingly call that Passat the SloMotion, 'cause that V6 engine is a dog. A 5 speed Legacy GT would keep up with, maybe even outrun, an automatic (the only way they come) V6 Passat 4Motion.

    Drive the GT to see if it suits you. It has a nice, tight suspension, 16" alloy rims, AWD, 4 channel ABS, 4 wheel disc brakes, and a double moonroof, all for a price in the low $20's. Plus it gets 21/28mpg on cheap 87 octane.

    That Passat offers a V6 but the price breaks $30k, it guzzles premium fuel at a rate of 17/24 mpg, all for no performance edge.

    -juice
  • oyoungoyoung Member Posts: 10
    Thanks for the info.

    That was kinda the feeling I had. I have a buddy who sells Audis, and he had said that the Passats are overpriced, i.e. for the same $$ for a loaded Passat, you can get a peppier A4 Avant. Granted the Passat is a tad larger, but, like you said only comes with the auto.

    The dbl moonroof is definitely a plus. My Golf has none and i miss it. I used to have a Mitsu Galant VR-4, but a stepson and a 100lb Akita put an end to that.

    Now that I have the 3yo and 18mo (stepson going w/ mom in the divorce), i need functionality but i still like to do the occasional TSD road rally. Figure the GT would be a comfy way of doing that.

    Thanks again for your input!
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Yeah, I do whine a lot. That's because I see a lot of areas where things can be improved.

    Anybody who has been following my posts here knows that all my comments/complaints are directed at making Subarus better products. Hopefully, with the help of Patti at SOA, and others who do agree with me (of whom there are many), maybe some of my "whining" will bear fruit.

    At any rate, like it or not, I will continue to "whine" as I see fit.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    VR-4, so you can appreciate AWD.

    The GT has AWD (every Soob does) plus a rear viscous limited-slip differential standard for side-to-side power transfer on the rear axle.

    The 5 speeds use a center viscous coupling that splits torque 50/50 front to rear and then locks temporarily when one axle rotates quicker than the other.

    Translated? It feels less like FWD and doesn't slip very often. It won't embarass itself on a track or rally.

    Kids? IIHS' top score in safety tests, 3 point belts every where, seat belt pre-tensioners and force limiters, front and side air bags (dual stage for passenger), removable head rests for 5, crumple zones, side impact beams, reinforced roof, 4 channel 4 sensor ABS, DRLs, and child tether anchors.

    Use those to sell the wife on the idea. ;)

    -juice
  • scarwafscarwaf Member Posts: 33
    Leif,
    Read your post. Thanks very much. I will call Russell and set up an appointment for tomorrow. I was there last Thursday Nov. 2. They never mentioned the LL Bean coming in. However, they did say the delivery of my VDC will be around Nov
    27. They also mentioned they aren't taking any orders for the VDC. I don't know how much I can believe in what they're saying but they told me they will only be getting 5 for the foreseeable future. That will probably take in most of next year.
    I was on Long Island, NY a few weeks ago and spoke to a dealer over there. They were taking a lot of orders and weren't having any problems getting them. They're selling very well.
    Again, thanks very much.
    Bob
  • armac13armac13 Member Posts: 1,129
    was raised by a family of sports cars. The ad implies Miatas but based upon all of the reported problems, I'm pretty certain they were Fiat 124 Spyders!

    Ross
  • yellowbikedonyellowbikedon Member Posts: 228
    My December issue of R & T arrived this afternoon. On page 50 there is a First Drive report. Review is pretty good with the only real potential question raised is that of price for the VDC and L.L. Bean models. "With a sticker of $31,895, the cost of the new Outback is dangerously close to upscale European wagons such as the Audi A4 Avant or the VW Passat 4Motion. The L.L.Bean edition is slightly less at $29,495 ..."

    A few quotes: "On the road, the benefits of the new engine are immediately noticeable. The new Outback H6-3.0 accelerates from a standstill in a sports-coupe-like manner, reaching freeway speeds briskly. What's most impressive is the smoothness of the engine; from 2000 to 4500 rpm, the powerplant revs effortlessly, producing a delightful harmonic whirr as the car shoots forward." And another quote: "But the new engine takes center stage here, and you can be sure we'll see it in other Subaru vehicles down the road...probably in the next Legacy GT, for instance. Also, there are rumors that a new high-performance sports coupe is being discussed at the Fuji Heavy Industries offices in Tokyo. If that's true,, then who knows? Subaru-with the arrival of the Impreza WRX early next year-may well find itself with an image sporty enough to be mentioned in the same breath as another company known for making high-output flat-6 engines."

    All in all, I'd say the initial test reads well.

    Don
  • mikef11mikef11 Member Posts: 74
    I think that it is great that you care enough about Subarus to suggest ways to improve them. I agree with some of your thoughts, but quite obviously disagree with others. In the end, all people can't be pleased all the time. :-)

    MikeF
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Seems like they're building many more LL Beans than VDCs.

    Ross: good one! :o)

    I don't get why they think it's "dangerously close" to a VW. VWs are not upscale. The Passat has less power and much less utility, plus no stability control to begin with.

    I wonder if anyone will bother to test an LL Bean model.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    MDX wins C&D's $30K-$40K SUV comparison test.

    Other interesting items:

    The Land Rover Discovery came in dead last. The IFS/IRS Montero won the off-road segment. Surprisingly there was no Grand Cherokee in the mix.

    Obviously, off-roading played a rather small part in the final tally of points, if the Land Rover did so poorly. I've been very happy with all the reports I've been reading about the new IFS/IRS Montero's off-road capability. Every report I've read on this vehicle has said that it is great off road. This must be a first for a mass-market IFS/IRS SUV.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That Monty proves you can have a capable SUV even with fully independent front and rear.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Agreed! Although you'll never convince hard-core off-roaders.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    did suffer from a power standpoint, and excessive on-road body roll. C&D attributes the body roll to its great suspension travel - again unusual on independently suspended vehicles.

    Hopefully future Monteros will improve on the on-road issues, while retain its excellent off-road capability.

    I'm also very interested in how the new 2002 IRS Explorer will do off road.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I'd be curious how the Trooper did, cause IMHO it's the best bargain around (you can get any of em, even the highest priced ones under $30K) Is there a link to the ratings?

    Thanks.

    -mike

    PS: my second choice SUV would be a monty, but for the AWD version it's just too expensive for what you get.
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Got my new Automobile mag yesterday, there's a 2 pager about the new WRX in it. Still based on driving JDM versions and not the actual North American version so of course the data is tentative...

    -Colin
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    also not included. Again, I don't know why.

    Title of the article: "Designer-Ute Smackdown."

    Rankings: (last to first)

    7. Land Rover Discovery
    5. (tie) Infiniti QX4 & Mercedes ML 320
    4. Mitsubishi Montero Limited
    3. Lexus RX300
    2. BMW X5 3.0
    1. Acura MDX

    I checked C&D's web site, and the link isn't there yet.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    It certainly sounds like they valued on-road/daily driver/utility-flexibility issues most highly.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, the off-road capability is almost in reverse order!

    Car mags suffer from "new kid on the block" syndrome. The newest model almost always wins, because it's exciting to drive something for the first time.

    Plus, remember the new ones get the most ad dollars, and the magazines want the manufacturers to use their names in the ads, not to mention buy more ad space!

    -juice
  • ramonramon Member Posts: 825
    Stop teasing us Colin, tell us what it said?!
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I also think they tested the vehicles how they will most likely be used (as daily drivers), and that's where their bias lies. Few people will use them off-road. Even most Land Rover owners rarely go off road. It's primarily a status symbol that seldom gets used as intended.

    Bob
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Oh, sorry Alwin. Basically the Automobile article had a few pics of car, talked about the JDM published 0-60 of 5.7s (which European publications think is overly soft, btw) and speculated that the US version would be a bit slower, perhaps 0-60 in 6.0s.

    They had some driving impressions, basically stating that the new car initially felt heavier than the previous WRX but it rode considerably better (better! not just smoother, as in SOFTER) and had cornering limits far beyond the average driver.

    Oh wait, there was one thing of interest. They said the WRX was coming to the US in sedan and wagon versions. I previously had not seen any firm statements that a WRX wagon was bound for North America, but maybe I missed something.

    -Colin
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