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Subaru Crew - Future Models
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Comments
Frank
http://4wd.sofcom.com/Subaru/Outback.html
Drew
Bob
-Frank P.
It would be a nice thing to do on the forestor to make it more SUV-like and differenctiate it from the Outback.
Just another opinion.
-mike
Anyone else think those Aussue OB's look higher up?
Bob: I also noticed the tach in the middle. Love it! The Impreza looks better and better up close, it's really growing on me.
That cabrio looks interesting. It don't think it fits in with Subaru's image, though. AWD, snow, drop-top? Seems out of place.
Spend the money on getting more models that already exist in the USA. Like the B4 RSK, please! Oh, and keep the pricing at $22k too!
A lot of those concepts are a bit old now. The Exiga was supposed to preview the 2000 Legacy.
-juice
This paragraph says it all:
The H6 "transforms the Japanese-built Outback into a real contender among the current crop of quite tasty European-sourced wagons. Besides the Bimmer, there are others the Subie stacks up against quite well. The Audi A4 2.8 Avant, Volkswagen Passat 4Motion, and Volvo V70 XC Cross Country also have all-wheel drive, but like the Bimmer are all down on Wheaties with 190 horsepower. The H6 has catapulted the Outback into the big leagues and this became obvious when we drove it."
My, oh my. Not only comparing it to the european contingent, but also insulting them! LOL!
I'm trying to determine if someone at SoA is working under cover for Edmunds...
-juice
-mike
I've carried enough lumber on it for a section of fence I built myself, about 35 feet wide. It's the fence you saw at the back of my car port. Not too shabby.
Compare the Soob rack to the VW rack side by side. It's embarassing how flimsy the VW rack is!
Still, the open window would help. Payload is over 1000 lbs on some models.
-juice
Stephen
May not be the exact North America version, but wow, this car is starting to look sharp.
Bob
-mike
New RAV-4 Pix
Click Next or Prev, to browse through the pix.
I still prefer the boxier look of the Forester. And the interior of new RAV4 is way too small, IMO. The engine hp on high-end RAV4 will be 148 hp, so it's still underpowered as compared to Forester.
-mike
The new RAV4 looks cute. I liked the old one, but it was small and a bit slow. The new one is only slightly bigger, but dimensions are still quite a bit smaller then the Forester, which is already a little cozy.
They're still using a 2.0l, though, so torque is way down on the Soob. It's supposed to hit 60 in over 10 seconds, and probably can't tow much.
Nice try, but still needs to be both bigger and more powerful to enter the big leagues. Toyota has the Highlander coming soon so they probably kept the RAV4 modest to make room for its big brother.
-juice
I'd suggest 3rd front-facing seat, folding into the floor when more cargo space is needed. Hey, if Colt Vista could squeeze 3rd seat in, why cannot Subaru?
Actually, the Vista was very tight. I'm thinking more like the MPV and Odyssey flip-and-fold seats. GM is putting those on its minivans, so why not copy that great idea from the parent company?
Um, just make sure Fuji engineers the hinges and latches!
-juice
They have carved a niche for themselves. The Legacy Outback was a huge success, and others have done pretty well too. The WRX and STi clearly have charisma and performance. I am still curious what you all think. Is it clever niche marketing or does Subaru provide a really competitive car in terms of technology and reliability?
One web site has suggested that all 2002 Impreza WRX's are already spoken for. Anyone able to comment on that please?
Finally, I would love to have a WRX wagon. Has anyone heard plans for that one. It exists in Japan I believe. I seem to remember someone saying it would come in the following year (2003)?
wheel bearing failures-- repeated failures caused by improper bearing installation.
air ride suspension on late 80's - early 90's models-- it's neat but it will break and it's expensive when it does
early 4EAT automatic transmissions-- not so reliable, mostly on the SVX due to the additional load, but much better now
head gaskets-- older iron block motors blew lots of them.
Lately they've had no large issues but there have been small production-type issues like any brand would have. (an example, a bad run of oxygen sensors on '00 2.5RS) I personally consider Subaru to be quite reliable and far better engineered and built than domestics for sure. Other Japanese marques... eh, they hold their own.
-Colin
Note how many old Subaru wagons are still on the road.
On the other hand, my husband's Accord'97 was not as reliable as we expected, and performance/safety leaves a lot of room for improvement. My old Loyale is more fun to drive, and of course my new Forester can run circles around the Accord.
BTW, our mechanic also did not think highly of Subarus. Maybe because he was not working on them (they did not break as much?), and did not get paid?
Actually, until we bought an Accord, we were under impression that Subaru is some kind of second-rate company, and we expected that Honda will be vastly superior. No such thing. I think much more highly of Subarus now.
No wonder he wants you to avoid Subaru!
-juice
PS No unscheduled visits to my poor, broke mechanic (just one recall at the dealership).
Also today, Subaru-Isuzu Automotive announced that Fuji Heavy Industries Ltd. (FHI), parent CHERRY HILL, N.J. Sept. 7, 2000 -- Subaru of America, Inc. (SOA) today announced plans to build a new crossover vehicle based on the ST-X concept unveiled at the Greater Los Angeles Auto Show earlier this year. The new vehicle will be produced at Subaru-Isuzu Automotive Inc. (SIA) in Lafayette, Ind. beginning in the third quarter of 2002 with annual production scheduled for 24,000 units. This exciting new addition to the Subaru model line will be sold through the Subaru dealer network.
The new vehicle concept, combines the versatility of the Subaru Outback, with the utility of a pickup -- creating a whole new type of vehicle. Garnering an enthusiastic response from both the media and consumers at several auto shows throughout the U.S., the concept is the ultimate expression of the Subaru brand essence -- fun, freedom, adventure, confidence, and control. Additional information and photos of the ST-X are available in the News section of www.subaru.com.
"Subaru invented the crossover category with the introduction of Outback -- the World's
First Sport Utility Wagon," said Subaru Of America, Inc. Chairman, President and CEO, Takao Saito. "Now, Subaru has taken this concept a step further, establishing a new segment to complement the active lifestyle. Based upon the overwhelming response by the public and our dealers to the ST-X, we are confident this new vehicle will form the latest chapter in the Subaru crossover success story."
- more -
company of Subaru of America, will build a new Subaru engine assembly plant at SIA in Lafayette, Ind. Construction of the new engine plant will be a multi-step project, which will include an initial capital investment of $36 million for full assembly and partial machining. Fuji Heavy Industries will carefully evaluate the investment at each step, which may culminate in a final estimated capital investment of $167 million. The new engine plant will create up to 255 new jobs.
Central to the announcement, SIA will assemble horizontally opposed 4-cylinder engines for future Legacy and Outback vehicles built at the Lafayette, Ind. facility. The new engine assembly operation will function as part of SIA's Subaru division, and is scheduled to produce up to 114,000 engines per year.
"The new projects announced today demonstrate the bright future for SIA and its dedicated workforce of more than 3,000 Hoosiers," said Subaru-Isuzu Automotive President and CEO, Masayoshi Nagano. "The projects will also have a significant positive impact on Indiana's economy, especially in the greater Lafayette area. We thank all of the local, county and state officials for their cooperation and assistance during the site selection process."
How 'bout some more H6's or a turbo, made in the good ol' US of A?
-juice
Will the supercharger of the ST-X concept be in the production ST-X?
You read it here on Edmund's first, folks!
..Mike
..Mike
-juice
At least the Forester is not a FWD based vehicle with the AWD added as an afterthought....
-mike
The AWD may have been a stuck on the Rav4, but the Corolla is actually quite a competent small car. I was surprised at the smooth ride, and the quality of the interior when we were shopping for a small car for my g/f (she bought a Cavalier, ouch)
ash
Back to the future models:
I wonder what powertrain(s) will make it into the ST-X? And what will its name be? Surely Subaru won't have a lineup consisting of the Impreza, Outback, Forester, Legacy, and ST-X.
-Colin
Let's hope they put skid plates on it and the dual range transfer case.
Favorite small car: Nissan Sentra
However, the Forester was the only miniute that was designed with AWD from the get-go.
Yes, the part-time, torque-on-demand, "Real Time" or whatever-you-want-to-call-it AWD systems on some of these vehicles are pretty lame.
Dennis
Kinda sorta. I'd agree that the OB was one of the earlier hybrid vehicles, but not the first. I believe the RAV4 was introduced in Japan before the OB trim became an option on the Legacy.
Also the RAV4, CR-V and Forester are technically "mini"utes because they're based on compact car platforms. The OB has traditionally been marketed against larger SUVs like the Explorer.
1) Edmunds. Very positive. Like the extra ponies and the VDC system. Compare it to the likes of Volvo XC, BMW 3 series wagon, and the Audi Avant 2.8. The only gripe seemed the $32k start MSRP for the VDC.
2) Car and Driver. Actually it could be Road and Track...I got both new issues this morning and was reading both and had some information overload. The article was on page 100 and about a drive through Maine. It was luke warm. They seemed to like the power increase but were not overly impressed. I found it curious that they compared it more the the new breed of mini-utes more than the power wagons from other companies that Edmudns refered to. In the closing paragraph they mention the Escape gives you much of the same for $6000 less. They did mention the A4 Avant 2.8 but only to say it was much faster to 60mph or something like that.
I'm still very curious as to who is going to buy the VDC and LL Bean versions. Will it be the people shopping for the Volvo XC, Audi Avant 2.8, BMW, Acura MDX, Infiniti QX4, or other money-ute? In this case the VDC gives you less (name, navigation, HID, 50k warranty) but also costs less ($0-6000) too.
Or will it be people looking at the regular OB or OB Ltd, VW Passat AWD, Ford Escape/Mazda Tribute, Toyota RAV4 and Highlander, Honda CR-V, Hyundai Santa Fe, Nissan Xterra, Chevrolet Tracker, Pontiac Aztek and probably others. In this case the comparison is weird....I guess it would depend on how you look at it. Its cheap for an upscale vehicle but really expensive in the mini-ute segment. The Ford, Mazda, Nissan, Toyota (Highlander), Hyundai, Pontiac, and Chevy are available with 6cyc engines. The OB will have some things (VDC, reliable, proven AWD) that set it apart but then again its quite a bit more $$$ than many of the mini-utes. Seems like its kinda wallowing in the middle to me. Not really enough to take customers away from the other yuppie wagons but too expensive for people to pony up the extra cash.
What about the larger but not mammoth-utes? Explorer, Bravada, Envoy, Blazer, Durango and so on. I'm not sure. Priced around the same but they really have more utility. Like cargo, towing, power, and in some cases you can get 0.9% finance too. In this case the OB will probably walk away with the the road manners and MPG title. Since I still dont really know why so many people buy those things and keep buying them when they use 10% of its utility......must be the look. The VDC looks the same as my 2k Ltd. They may get some of these people
I do have major concerns about the sliding rear cab "glass", for the same reasons mentioned above regarding sliding glass in the older wagons. i.e. reliability and noise. IMHO and extending bed is more practicle. Regarding concerns over shifting weight too far behind rear axle (as noted in SOA web page), well you shouldn't be racing with the bed loaded anyway, now should you? Finally, what if you need to carry 4 people, AND a sheet of plywood.
The first hybrid vehicle, HMMM. I seem to recall the AMC Eagle fitting that description years before anything else. Maybe it doesn't count because it predated the whole SUV craze. Just something to think about. I don't get too excited over marketing prose. Some exageration is to be expected. Sort of like a good fishing story.
-Colin
As you can probably guess from my previous comments on this topic, I'm in agreement with you about wondering where the high-end Subies are going to get their customers.
I'm looking forward to when our board posters can start the test-drive feedback. We've got a wide range of Subie fans -- from "true believers" to those of us who are perhaps a little more critical, or even a lot more critical -- and I believe we'll get a good assessment when we put it all together.
Randy
My mechanic is also a close friend, so he has no axe to grind. He is a quality nut, and second generation car expert. I am sure Subaru Impreza WRX matches up in quality to the Chevy Cavalier, but does it match a Honda Prelude - which also handles pretty darn well. I had to drop the new Celica from my list as it shrunk its back seat and began to try too hard in the styling department... reminds me of Britney Spears...though last I looked her back seat was just fine.
I think the Outback clearly caters to the wagon people, albeit those folks who have a desire for a wagon "plus"–AWD, towing capacity, etc. So I agree with Nematode that the Outback VDC is a niche vehicle–it doesn't compare favorably with the luxo wagons and is more expensive than run-of-the-mill wagons. In fact, I continue to argue that the VDC has only one natural competitor–the 4mo VW Passat SW (which, with the exception of the transmission, it compares very favorably with). Beyond the 4mo crowd, the most likely buyers of the L.L. Bean and VDC models are current Outback Limited owners or folks already interested in the Outback and Limited. (Brief aside: my wife and I are currently looking at the 5-sp Passat GLX SW and VDC. The choice seems to have come down to whether or not we place a greater value on the superior performance and handling of a German car or the greater functionality of the Outback. One very nice feature available in the Passat that is lacking in the VDC is memory seats; there is a ten inch difference in height between us, so this is a very nice feature.) In any case, what Subaru really needs to do is to get the H6 into the regular Outback and Legacy models so that it has much less expensive six cylinder vehicles to offer to current domestic and "Camcord" owners interested in wagons.
Bill
Postscript: My wife, kids and I went to the Subaru Outback Rendevous in Reston, VA yesterday. (The kids loved the rock climbing demonstration!) An L.L. Bean H6 was there and I do have to admit that I was pleasantly surprised. I expected lots of gaudy badging and I cringed at the thought of two-tone leather seats...but I was pretty impressed when I saw it up close...very understated but sharp looking. The engine is quite a beauty; very compact and neatly laid out. The only major things lacking are the aforementioned memory seats and HID lights (I think that these will be available on the Passat in 2001.5). A full size spare and one-touch up-and-down windows all around would be nice also.
Here's two new models I hope to see some day at
Subaru showrooms:
1. THE RETURN OF THE SVX.
I know this has been discussed before, but I want
to add my comments.
I would like it to based on the Legacy GT platform
(to keep costs in check), and -- make it a "4-door
hatchback coupe." That's right, a 4-door hatchback
coupe, not unlike the 4-door extended cab pickup
trucks. Saturn, as you know, already has a 3-door
coupe. Also, making it a hatchback reenforces
Subaru's image of practical utility.
The target market for this vehicle, besides the
"'20-30-somethings," would be the "empty-nesters,"
who are becoming a large market. Speaking as an
about to be empty nester, I can tell you for a fact the the old body (mine), doesn't bend or flex like it used to. The added convenience of a 4-door coupe would offer a huge marketing advantage over the competition.
Obviously, if a 4-door coupe were to appear, it
couldn't use the frameless glass doors, that Subaru is famous for. The full-frame doors would have to have very strong latches at both the bottom and top of the door frame.
For power, the vehicle would be offered with both
the 2.5 H-4, and the 3.0 H-6 - both with 5-speed manual and 5-speed sport-shift automatic transmissions.
I know there have been some rumors floating around
in Japan that the SVX, or something like it, may
be in the works. Let's hope so.
2. A FULL-FLEDGED SMALL ROADSTER.
I would love to see a Miata-sized roadster
developed by Subaru.
Whereas Mazda used the classic, front-engine Lotus
Elan for inspiration, I would like to see Subaru
use the the state-of-the-art, mid-engine (and not-for-highway-use-in-the-USA) Lotus Elise for its inspiration -- especially for its styling.
Okay, how do you make a mid-engined sports car out
of the existing front wheel drive-based AWD system?
Simple. Turn the engine and transmission 90
degrees, so that it's facing east-west, rather than the current north-south layout. It would be a
"transverse boxer." The front driveshaft would exit where the current front drive now exits. The same would occur with the rear drive, except that it would exit on the opposite side of the
transmission.
The power would come from the WRX Turbo, hooked
up to the oft-rumored 6-speed transmission. No
automatic offered.
How about SOA? No guts, no glory!
Bob