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Thanks again for your help
Terry
I'm considering leasing an Accord. Here's the advertised offer (haven't negotiated yet):
$219 Monthly Payment
36 Month Term
$999 Down Payment
NA Security Deposit
12000 Annual Mileage
Restrictions Lease based on 2005 Accord Sedan LX 4-cylinder automatic (model CM5645EW).
Comments $2038 total due at signing. Incentives may vary; see your local dealer for details. Tax, tags and insurance are extra.
In 2002 my stepdad leased a "Special Edition" Accord for zero down and $199 a month. I'd like to do zero down as well. What's a good rate on this, and do you think I could negotiate?
THANKS
I was doing some research recently for a friend that is considering a MINI.. It seems that nearly all sales take place at MSRP or above.. Occasionally, you hear of someone getting $500 off, or floormats thrown in..
I would think on the convertible, that MSRP would be the best you can do... and, I wouldn't be surprised if they try to mark up the money factor and acquisition fee as well... If they insist on marking up the fees and MF, I would definitely purchase the car instead..
As a comparison, $25,900 at MSRP for 60 months at 3.9% is $476/mo.. Given the good resale on MINIs in general... I'd probably be more likely to purchase than lease, since there are no lease incentives...
Shop for financing at your local credit union or bank, before making your final decision, so you know what is the best way to go..
regards,
kyfdx
(not the expert)
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Thanks for the reply. Since I posted my original message, I noticed the 24-month lease that Audi is offering on the A4 Special Edition 1.8 CVT. This is a car that I am also interested in. Any idea if this special will be extended past February? I would always lease for only 24 months if I could, but that rarely seems to be a good deal.
I have also decided to stop considering the Pilot for now, and concentrate on 3 Acura vehicles as well as the Audi. Here are the numbers on the vehicles I am considering:
Acura TSX:
- MSRP: $27,560
- Invoice: $25,171
- Term: 36 months
- Miles: 12,000/year
- Money down: Nothing except acquisition & 1st payment
Acura TL:
- MSRP: $33,470
- Invoice: $30,552
- Term: 36 months
- Miles: 12,000/year
- Money down: Nothing except acquisition & 1st payment
Acura MDX:
- MSRP: $37,270
- Invoice: $33,631
- Term: 36 months
- Miles: 12,000/year
- Money down: Nothing except acquisition & 1st payment
Audi A4 Special Edition 1.8 CVT:
- MSRP: $27,720
- Invoice: $25,715
- Term: 24 months
- Miles: 12,000/year
- Money down: Nothing except acquisition & 1st payment
The only vehicles that have specials on them currently are the MDX & A4. The A4 special lease specifies only 10,000 miles/year (kind of stupid, in my opinion!). But I would want 12,000. I'm just not sure how much that would add to the payment.
I have no idea how much luck I might have in negotiating a lower price than MSRP on any of these vehicles. Many luxury car dealers aren't willing to budge from list price.
Is there any other information you need, such as the specific terms of the two that have lease specials?
Ernest
Thanks for the info on the Altima lease rates. I want to expand my options to the maxima. Could you please tell me the lease rates for the 05 Maxima 3.5 SE? I am interested in both the 24 month and 36 month base factors with 15K miles. Thanks Again.
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The MSRP on the 4Runner is $38,351.
I'll get back to you on the Pilot.
Thanks a bunch!!
Thanks for the information. Do you know how Toyota splits the credit tiers? What FICO number do you need to be in tier 1, tier 2 etc...Thanks.
Sorry...I've been dense on this issue of MSRP and "selling price". So, I have been unclear, until now, why you were asking me for either MSRP or selling price, when I already had thrown you a figure. So, first off, thanks for your patience. Second, I'm learning things I'll use in leasing my wife's Mini convertible, in terms of offering them less than the sticker price and knowing that we should end up paying less than the $392 + tax.
With regard to the 2004 BMW 352i I leased for 24 months on 9-15-2004, let me ask a question, which will be helpful, even if not, retrospectively, precise. Ok, then, the gross capitalized cost was $34,015 (supposedly some sort of price break because it was at the end of the model year and the car had both the premium and cold weather packages and the automatic transmission) and (with a small cap cost reduction) the adjusted cap cost was $33,621. The residual was set at $24,222, so I was left paying off the $9,399 decline in value + $3,262 "rent charge" (total = $12,661) at $527.55 per month for the 24 months -- way more than your estimate. My question is: what's your best guess as to where I should have gotten a better deal: the price I paid? the money factor? the residual? Do any (or all) of them, even speculatively, stand out as likely places where the price was jacked up unreasonably? My apologies if I'm badgering you to guess at something you pretty much think is beyond any useful speculation.
Best regards,
SFCharlie
OK, so I am looking to lease either a Subaru Forester XT (Auto with Premium package) or a Saab 9-3 Arc (also Auto). I live in northern California, so that is my relevant market.
We currently have a leased 2002 Saab 9-3 and will be finishing that lease in March, so looking to do this deal between now and then. We have visited one Saab dealer and one Subaru dealer so far, and are waiting to hear back from them with their "best deal" so I'd like to know my stuff when I hear back from them.
Can you provide current cap costs (with any dealer cash or other incentives), money factors and residual values on 3 year/12,000 miles per year lease deals? I know their "deals" right now are on the base models which we do not want.
Many thanks!
Paul
I figured there must be something special going on that was not reflected in the lease calculator. So, if you can give us the info to plug in for the following vehicles, I can calculate the payments:
Here's what we're looking at now:
2005 Silverado Crew Cab 2WD LT or LS package w/lthr
2005 Ford F-150 XLT Crew Cab XLT 2WD w/lg V-8
2005 Ford F-150 Lariat Crew Cab 2WD
I don't think any of the options would change the residual percentage (ie nav is not available on any of these vehicles), but you could let me know if I'm wrong about that. I was pleasantly surprised to see that the lease programs on the domestic vehicles are so aggressive, especially with the addition of the customer cash. It helps people like us, with the negative equity we have to dump....
As always, thanks for your help. We plan to do something this week. It's either one of these vehicles or the Accord. The import trucks just won't come off MSRP enough to make a deal work.
Thanks, Car-man and Edmunds. You are an invaluable service to us poor slobs out here! We are forever in your debt!
Chigirl
I think you might benefit from my experiences.
I live in S. New England and also wanted either, a TSX, TL or A4, after eliminating 9-3, 3 series and little MBenz.
I probably would have chosen the TL if there were not so many unhappy posters complaining of vibration on the TL board, with no solace from Honda. I understood that you could get $1,000 off the MSRP in my area.
The next choice was the TSX. Here in SNE, I was told that I needed to pay 100% of MSRP and order now for delivery in late March or April. I was a little put off by the 3 Acura dealers I visited. It is not a privilege or a bother to test drive a near $30,000 car you are seriously considering. They don't seem to know that.
I preferred the TSX over the A4, by a narrow margin, but I am picking up an 2005 A4 Thursday.
I computed a savings of, at least $100/mon on a 36 month lease compared to the TSX. The money factor was 6/10 of a percent APR. The Audi residual was less, but the lease charge is so low that it was more than offset. The discount that Audi offers with the Special Edition package and the discounts dealers will make off MSRP make the deal even sweeter. Since I might decide to buy the A4 at lease end, I'd prefer paying depreciation which reduces the lease end buy out, over paying lease charges that are simply finance charges and just money lost without benefit. Audis also include "free" service during my 36 month lease term. I expect to be very happy with my new A4 and the extra $$ in savings. There is no penalty to lease an A4 now, even if your intention is to buy, because the interest expense is lower for leases than purchases through Audi.
Regarding the lease term, I posted here and on the A4 - Prices Paid board describing my negotiation of a 36 month, 15,000/year lease. I believe I exceeded the advertised deal for a special edition = 24 month, 10,000/year, $299/mos. w/ $1,999 at signing. I am paying $0 down, $355/mos for 36 mos. with 15,000/year.
The residual for the advertised special is 70% for 2 years (average: 15% per year) and the 36 month residual is 56% (average: 14.66% per year), slightly better.
If money matters, Audi is currently the obvious choice, assuming if your passion for the vehicles is roughly the same. I have posted on the A4 Forum concerning my observations as to availability. If money really matters, play chicken with the inventory of 2005s, you may not get the color and equipment that you want exactly, but I bet you do better than I was able to. The 2005.5-2006s will be here around 3/1/2005.
Good luck.
The full MSRP including destination charges is $24864. We intend to drive it it 15,000 miles per year.
What effect DOES a down payment have on a lease?
Thanks!
JMOB
Wanted to know residual, MF and payment for the following:
2005 Honda Pilot EX (no leather or navi)
MSRP: $30,435
Selling Price: $27,932
Looking for a 24 or 36 mo lease at 12k/yr
Thanks!
I am currently leasing an '02 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo. My payoff is $21,295. My lease terms are 15k/4years. I have 16 payments left and currently have 63k on the car. I want to get out of it. My monthly payments are around $550. The dealers appraisals have all been around $13,000. What makes the most sense? To lease again or buy??? I need the same payment preferably less. I have a GMS authorization number and I am looking at the Saturn Vue and the Chevy Equinox. Also looking into Honda Accords and Toyota Camrys. Any suggestions on how I can take the sting out of my negative milage???
Will listen to anything.
Keyman21
I know you are busy, but have you had time work out my numbers on a 2005 Ford Escape. Just some reminder info:
Turning in my current least with 4 payments left - totaling approx. $1,300
MSRP of Escape is $26,605, selling price is $24,913.
$2000 in incentive money, plus $500 in return customer money.
Total out of pocket (taxes, reg., 1st month payment) is $2000
Monthly payment is $398
39 month lease, 10.5K miles per years.
How does this sound? Any help would be appreciated.
Terry
2005 BMW X3 3.0i custom order:
$38650 invoice with my options
+ $440 over
+ $330 MACO
+ $326 License/reg
+ $45 Doc fee (?)
+ $5 Tire fee (??)
+ $825 acquisition fee
MF 0.00125 for 36 mo/15k
--Is the MACO fee legitimate? Doc/tire fee??
--I know the bank fee is marked up $200,
but the sales manager said that even he has
to pay that when he buys a car from his
dealership because the finance managers need
to make something since their giving the base
MF rate. Is he blowing smoke?
Should I insist on the base bank fee?
What do you think of this deal overall?
Thanks.
I am also interested in what Tier 1 credit is and what the other tiers scores breakoff points are. I am applying for Toyota financing but I also wonder if everyone's tier 1 is the same.
Lastly I am considering leasing the 05 Avalon, do you have residual figures in yet for the Limited with Nav, Laser cruise and VSC? Is there any lease support for them? If you do have the residual and at a selling price of 37,600 for 36 month and 15K with 0 down what would my lease payments be?
Sitting at the MB dealership is an 04 E500 4MATIC with cd changer, heated seats, and moonroof. Original MSRP is a little over $63165, and it is being offered at $54995. It has approximately 550 miles on it.
The vehicle was PUT IN SERVICE 9/30/04, which was explained to me that MB 'forced' the dealership to purchase the vehicle, thus beginning the clock on the warranty from that date forward. However, the dealership states that the car has never been titled.
Here's the lease offered:
Selling price $54995
Residual $34025 (which is a claimed 55%, although it appears lower)
Money factor .00295
39 months at 10K miles per year
Payment is $832.59 + tax/lic
What do you think? Seems like at the very least, the money factor is high.
Thanks for your input.
Seacarfan
A general question about the relationship of your figures to those yielded by the Edmunds lease calculator. For example, when I enter $30,500 as cost of a 2005 BMW 325i, the lease calculator produces a monthly payment figure (with tax) of $640, for 24 months, whereas your calculations yielded a payment (even though without taxes) of only $429. Similarly, you had suggested $392 for a 2005 Mini convertible priced at $25,900 for 24 months; while Edmunds' calculator yields a figure of $561 (although, again, Edmunds is with the tax -- but the tax can't account for the difference).
Thanks for any clarification...SFCharlie
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As far as the Audi lease only allowing 10,000 miles per year goes, many automakers, especially European luxury manufacturers, advertise leases on vehicles with this low mileage allowance. By doing so they can advertise a lower monthly payment than if they had advertised a lease with 12,000 or 15,000 miles per year. You can still take advantage of the lease support that is available on the A4 and lease it with a higher mileage limit.
If you are in a major metropolitan area where there is a decent amount of competition for your business, you should be able to negotiate a selling price that is lower than full MSRP on all of the vehicles that you mentioned, especially the A4. As I mentioned earlier, the completely redesigned version of this car will arrive very soon and I am sure that dealers will be anxious to unload their remaining old models.
For leases of the vehicles that you mentioned in your post through their captive finance companies for 3 years with 12,000 miles per, I cam up with zero down, pre-tax monthly payments of $373 for the TSX, $468 for the TL, $463 for the MDX, and $325 for the A4. All of these payments assume a discount of $1,000 from MSRP. If you are able to negotiate a lower selling price than that, their payments would be lower.
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I'm trying to get some data for a 4Runner lease in the southeast region(florida) but the dealers I contacted were evasive in that matter.
Does anybody know what is the money factor and residual % for a 4Runner? (36 months, 12k/15k miles a year)
I'm replying to my own message (#16461) because I mis-calculated the Mini lease payment on the Edmunds calculators (I used 24 months, by mistake, instead of 36 months). Using 36 months, the Edmunds calculator still comes up higher than you did -- you at $392 pre-tax and them at $478 with tax. Since we're on Edmunds, how come the disparity?
Thanks, for all yout time and energy...SFCharlie
1) If you want a lease payment, you'll have to supply the MSRP of the car..
2) If you are negotiating from invoice up.. then MACO is indeed a legitimate fee..
3) Tire fee is a government charge
4) Document fee is a dealer charge.. I personally wouldn't quibble over $45 though.. seems reasonable.
5) Since they are selling at $440 over invoice, and they are using the base MF, then the $200 bump in the acq.fee equates to $640 over invoice.. a very good deal, and that is the way I would look at it..
6) What is the MSRP and how many miles/year will you drive it?
7) What payment was quoted, and does it include tax?
regards,
kyfdx
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sfcharlie:
I just tried out the Edmunds lease calculator.. as I hadn't used it before.. It gave me $392 as well..
The calculator throws in a lot of extra numbers, that you have to change to zeroes... tax rate, acquisition fees, registration, etc, etc..
Always take tax out of the equation.. No calculator can fathom all of the different ways to figure sales tax.
In addition, it doesn't figure the residual value for you... You have to make that calculation manually...
If you get all the variables correct, and remove all the miscellaneous charges, and calculate the residual correctly.. it does give you an accurate number. I've seen better calculators on the web.
regards,
kyfdx
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Whatever your level of expertise, it's greater than mine...I'm just feeling my way along.
So, you muat be using the same residual as Car_Man. What is that number? Is the Edmunds money factor accurate? Are we removing all those numbers and replacing them with zeroes because a savvy leaser won't pay them? Or just for the purpose of getting a clean baseline monthly lease payment onto which those other things are added as up front costs?
Regards,
SFCharlie
I do know that the supply/demand curve has changed in favor of buyers, but I think the distance between MINI dealers keeps price competition down..
In fact, my local dealer had an ad in the paper this week: "How soon can you get a MINI? How soon can you get here?"
Meaning that they had cars on the ground that aren't spoken for... But, they still insist on MSRP. Of course, my local dealer is not the place to get a good buy on a BMW, either..
Who knows? Maybe if you were willing to take whatever was sitting on the lot, you might be able to get $500-$1000 off... but, I wouldn't bet on it..
regards,
kyfdx
(who would look mighty good in an MCS)
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Those were the figures I used...
And, yes.. I removed all the numbers to get a clean, baseline payment...
Other than the acquisition fee (which can still be increased by the dealer), all other fees are variable, depending on where you live, and what your dealer wants to charge...
You have to pay an acquisition fee.. And, of course, you have to pay sales tax, and licensing and registration fees to your local/state government.. Anything else comes under the heading of dealer profit. Profit is okay.. but, the profit in selling a car at MSRP should be enough..
regards,
kyfdx
(not the expert)
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