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  • trneal276trneal276 Member Posts: 13
    Thanks for the reply Carman. The selling price is $24,903, and the MSRP is $26,605.

     

    Thanks again for your help

     

    Terry
  • 64221306422130 Member Posts: 47
    Thanks for the Sienna info. Regarding options residualization through TFS, is it only the major (numbered) packages that can be residualized? For example, the XLE I am going to look at and would like to buy has a $6500 factory option package.
  • benderofbowsbenderofbows Member Posts: 542
    Hi CarMan,

     

    I'm considering leasing an Accord. Here's the advertised offer (haven't negotiated yet):

     

    $219 Monthly Payment

    36 Month Term

    $999 Down Payment

    NA Security Deposit

    12000 Annual Mileage

    Restrictions Lease based on 2005 Accord Sedan LX 4-cylinder automatic (model CM5645EW).

    Comments $2038 total due at signing. Incentives may vary; see your local dealer for details. Tax, tags and insurance are extra.

     

    In 2002 my stepdad leased a "Special Edition" Accord for zero down and $199 a month. I'd like to do zero down as well. What's a good rate on this, and do you think I could negotiate?

     

    THANKS
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,262
    This might be the wrong forum for this, but...

     

    I was doing some research recently for a friend that is considering a MINI.. It seems that nearly all sales take place at MSRP or above.. Occasionally, you hear of someone getting $500 off, or floormats thrown in..

     

    I would think on the convertible, that MSRP would be the best you can do... and, I wouldn't be surprised if they try to mark up the money factor and acquisition fee as well... If they insist on marking up the fees and MF, I would definitely purchase the car instead..

     

    As a comparison, $25,900 at MSRP for 60 months at 3.9% is $476/mo.. Given the good resale on MINIs in general... I'd probably be more likely to purchase than lease, since there are no lease incentives...

     

    Shop for financing at your local credit union or bank, before making your final decision, so you know what is the best way to go..

     

    regards,

    kyfdx

    (not the expert)

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  • stalnakerstalnaker Member Posts: 72
    Car_man,

     

    Thanks for the reply. Since I posted my original message, I noticed the 24-month lease that Audi is offering on the A4 Special Edition 1.8 CVT. This is a car that I am also interested in. Any idea if this special will be extended past February? I would always lease for only 24 months if I could, but that rarely seems to be a good deal.

     

    I have also decided to stop considering the Pilot for now, and concentrate on 3 Acura vehicles as well as the Audi. Here are the numbers on the vehicles I am considering:

     

    Acura TSX:

    - MSRP: $27,560

    - Invoice: $25,171

    - Term: 36 months

    - Miles: 12,000/year

    - Money down: Nothing except acquisition & 1st payment

     

    Acura TL:

    - MSRP: $33,470

    - Invoice: $30,552

    - Term: 36 months

    - Miles: 12,000/year

    - Money down: Nothing except acquisition & 1st payment

     

    Acura MDX:

    - MSRP: $37,270

    - Invoice: $33,631

    - Term: 36 months

    - Miles: 12,000/year

    - Money down: Nothing except acquisition & 1st payment

     

    Audi A4 Special Edition 1.8 CVT:

    - MSRP: $27,720

    - Invoice: $25,715

    - Term: 24 months

    - Miles: 12,000/year

    - Money down: Nothing except acquisition & 1st payment

     

    The only vehicles that have specials on them currently are the MDX & A4. The A4 special lease specifies only 10,000 miles/year (kind of stupid, in my opinion!). But I would want 12,000. I'm just not sure how much that would add to the payment.

     

    I have no idea how much luck I might have in negotiating a lower price than MSRP on any of these vehicles. Many luxury car dealers aren't willing to budge from list price.

     

    Is there any other information you need, such as the specific terms of the two that have lease specials?

     

    Ernest
  • tjwalkertjwalker Member Posts: 1
    We leased a car in Ohio and paid $1,700 in sales tax at the time of the lease. We have recently moved to Kentucky where they charge sales tax on the lease payment. I have been told that our payment will go up $30 a month, which will be an additional $1,000 over the life of the lease. I am double paying sales tax! Can this be avoided? Is any of this senseless tax deductible on our tax return?
  • twaltertwalter Member Posts: 2
    HI Car Man,

     

    Thanks for the info on the Altima lease rates. I want to expand my options to the maxima. Could you please tell me the lease rates for the 05 Maxima 3.5 SE? I am interested in both the 24 month and 36 month base factors with 15K miles. Thanks Again.
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    I never addressed the issue of the deposit in my previous post, jlsellers. You are absolutely correct, manufacturers do not have a corporate policy on the deposits that consumers place on ordered vehicles. The exact policy on refunds of deposits varies from dealer to dealer. If your friend ordered a fairly mainstream car that will not be difficult for the dealer that she ordered it from to unload she stands a decent chance of getting her deposit back. Many dealers drag their feet on giving back deposits, even if they were supposedly completely refundable. If your friend is unable to renegotiate her deal, she should be able to get her deposit back if it was supposed to be refundable and if she is persistent enough.

     

    Car_man

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi ddlovejoy. It is almost always in consumers' best interest to wait until the scheduled end of their lease to get a new vehicle. This will almost certainly be the case in your situation. It costs money to get out of a lease well before its expiration date. As you mentioned in your post, the dealer is not just going to eat the expense of getting you out of your current lease. They will use money that you may have been able to use as a discount on your next vehicle to get you out of your lease or they will just roll the cost of breaking your lease into your next loan. You definitely do not have to go back to the dealer that you originally got your leased vehicle from to get your next car or truck. If I was in your situation I would hold onto my leased vehicle until a year from now and then finance something new.

     

    Car_man

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    No problem, bicycle. I am glad that I was able to help you out.

     

    Car_man

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hey chigirlintexas. Any lease calculator that does not use manufacturers' actual lease programs to calculate lease payments is absolutely worthless. I would be more than happy to give you an idea of what the lease money factor and residual value should be like for any vehicle that you are interested in. You can then take these numbers and plug them into the formula that is outlined in the following article to estimate a vehicle's monthly lease payment: Calculate Your Own Lease Payment.

     

    Car_man

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi nupeskee. Here is the information that you are looking for. If you were to lease a 2005 Toyota Sequoia SR5 4WD through Toyota Financial Services right now in its Kansas City region for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00148 and 65% for consumers who qualify for its "Tier 1" credit tier. The money factor for an otherwise identical lease of an '05 Sequoia Limited 4WD would be the same, but the residual value would be 57%. Its residual values for leases with only 12,000 miles per year would be 2% higher.

     

    Car_man

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Thanks for the additional information, sfCharlie. In an earlier post you stated that this car's MSRP is $25,900. Now you are saying that this is its selling price as well. This obviously means that you are not getting any sort of discount on it. Always remember that the selling prices of leased vehicles are negotiable. I suspect that you can do better than full MSRP on this car. Let's work up a sample lease payment for you anyhow. According to my calculations, if you were to lease a 2005 Mini Cooper Convertible with an MSRP and selling price of $25,900 through its captive finance company right now for 3 years with 12,000 miles per, your zero down, pre-tax monthly payment should be around $392.

     

    Car_man

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Sfcharlie, again I need to know the selling price of this vehicle to calculate a lease payment for it, but I will make one up for the purpose of this exercise. Let's say that one was given a $1,000 discount on this car, in addition to the $2,500 dealer cash that is available on it. This would result in a capitalized cost of around $30,500 on a car that has a full MSRP of $34,000. Using these numbers, I estimate that a 2 year, 12,000 miles per lease of a 2005 BMW 325i through BMW FS would have a zero down, pre-tax lease payment of around $429.

     

    Car_man

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hey topgun7. Manufacturers' conventional financing rates are almost always different than their lease money factors. That is the case with the 2005 Chrysler PT Cruiser. If you were to lease a 2005 Chrysler PT Cruiser Convertible GT through Chrysler Financial right now for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00200 and 50%, respectively.

     

    Car_man

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hey Vick. The National lease money factor for a 2005 Lexus ES 330 through Lexus Financial Services right now for 3 years is indeed .00145 for consumers who qualify for its Tier 1 credit tier. It is slightly lower than this, .00135, for consumers who qualify for the Tier 1+ tier. It is higher than this, .00200, for consumers who only qualify for Tier 2. Again these factors are national and should be available in your area. Lexus dealers are allowed to mark-up this money factor up to an additional .00120 to add additional back-end profit to deals if they can get away with it. That may be what is happening with this deal.

     

    Car_man

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  • aleekelleraleekeller Member Posts: 1
    I need to lease a very fuel economical car for an outside sales job, I live in a remote area and drive sometimes between 700-1000miles per week, can I get a lease on a car for this kind of mileage?? I need to make it as $$$ effective as possible.
  • clp091clp091 Member Posts: 2
    Thanks much Car_man!!It's nice to know I am working with dealers that are straightforward.

     

    The MSRP on the 4Runner is $38,351.

     

    I'll get back to you on the Pilot.

     

    Thanks a bunch!!
  • nupeskeenupeskee Member Posts: 14
    Car_Man

     

    Thanks for the information. Do you know how Toyota splits the credit tiers? What FICO number do you need to be in tier 1, tier 2 etc...Thanks.
  • sfcharliesfcharlie Member Posts: 402
    Car_Man:

     

    Sorry...I've been dense on this issue of MSRP and "selling price". So, I have been unclear, until now, why you were asking me for either MSRP or selling price, when I already had thrown you a figure. So, first off, thanks for your patience. Second, I'm learning things I'll use in leasing my wife's Mini convertible, in terms of offering them less than the sticker price and knowing that we should end up paying less than the $392 + tax.

     

    With regard to the 2004 BMW 352i I leased for 24 months on 9-15-2004, let me ask a question, which will be helpful, even if not, retrospectively, precise. Ok, then, the gross capitalized cost was $34,015 (supposedly some sort of price break because it was at the end of the model year and the car had both the premium and cold weather packages and the automatic transmission) and (with a small cap cost reduction) the adjusted cap cost was $33,621. The residual was set at $24,222, so I was left paying off the $9,399 decline in value + $3,262 "rent charge" (total = $12,661) at $527.55 per month for the 24 months -- way more than your estimate. My question is: what's your best guess as to where I should have gotten a better deal: the price I paid? the money factor? the residual? Do any (or all) of them, even speculatively, stand out as likely places where the price was jacked up unreasonably? My apologies if I'm badgering you to guess at something you pretty much think is beyond any useful speculation.

     

    Best regards,

    SFCharlie
  • paulsfcapaulsfca Member Posts: 8
    Hello - this is my first post -thank you so much for all of the excellent help I see on this forum!

     

    OK, so I am looking to lease either a Subaru Forester XT (Auto with Premium package) or a Saab 9-3 Arc (also Auto). I live in northern California, so that is my relevant market.

     

    We currently have a leased 2002 Saab 9-3 and will be finishing that lease in March, so looking to do this deal between now and then. We have visited one Saab dealer and one Subaru dealer so far, and are waiting to hear back from them with their "best deal" so I'd like to know my stuff when I hear back from them.

     

    Can you provide current cap costs (with any dealer cash or other incentives), money factors and residual values on 3 year/12,000 miles per year lease deals? I know their "deals" right now are on the base models which we do not want.

     

    Many thanks!

    Paul
  • chigirlintexaschigirlintexas Member Posts: 73
    Hi Car-man,

     

    I figured there must be something special going on that was not reflected in the lease calculator. So, if you can give us the info to plug in for the following vehicles, I can calculate the payments:

     

    Here's what we're looking at now:

    2005 Silverado Crew Cab 2WD LT or LS package w/lthr

    2005 Ford F-150 XLT Crew Cab XLT 2WD w/lg V-8

    2005 Ford F-150 Lariat Crew Cab 2WD

     

    I don't think any of the options would change the residual percentage (ie nav is not available on any of these vehicles), but you could let me know if I'm wrong about that. I was pleasantly surprised to see that the lease programs on the domestic vehicles are so aggressive, especially with the addition of the customer cash. It helps people like us, with the negative equity we have to dump....

     

    As always, thanks for your help. We plan to do something this week. It's either one of these vehicles or the Accord. The import trucks just won't come off MSRP enough to make a deal work.

     

    Thanks, Car-man and Edmunds. You are an invaluable service to us poor slobs out here! We are forever in your debt!

    Chigirl
  • upndwnupndwn Member Posts: 44
    Stainaker:

     

    I think you might benefit from my experiences.

     

    I live in S. New England and also wanted either, a TSX, TL or A4, after eliminating 9-3, 3 series and little MBenz.

     

    I probably would have chosen the TL if there were not so many unhappy posters complaining of vibration on the TL board, with no solace from Honda. I understood that you could get $1,000 off the MSRP in my area.

     

    The next choice was the TSX. Here in SNE, I was told that I needed to pay 100% of MSRP and order now for delivery in late March or April. I was a little put off by the 3 Acura dealers I visited. It is not a privilege or a bother to test drive a near $30,000 car you are seriously considering. They don't seem to know that.

     

    I preferred the TSX over the A4, by a narrow margin, but I am picking up an 2005 A4 Thursday.

     

    I computed a savings of, at least $100/mon on a 36 month lease compared to the TSX. The money factor was 6/10 of a percent APR. The Audi residual was less, but the lease charge is so low that it was more than offset. The discount that Audi offers with the Special Edition package and the discounts dealers will make off MSRP make the deal even sweeter. Since I might decide to buy the A4 at lease end, I'd prefer paying depreciation which reduces the lease end buy out, over paying lease charges that are simply finance charges and just money lost without benefit. Audis also include "free" service during my 36 month lease term. I expect to be very happy with my new A4 and the extra $$ in savings. There is no penalty to lease an A4 now, even if your intention is to buy, because the interest expense is lower for leases than purchases through Audi.

     

    Regarding the lease term, I posted here and on the A4 - Prices Paid board describing my negotiation of a 36 month, 15,000/year lease. I believe I exceeded the advertised deal for a special edition = 24 month, 10,000/year, $299/mos. w/ $1,999 at signing. I am paying $0 down, $355/mos for 36 mos. with 15,000/year.

     

    The residual for the advertised special is 70% for 2 years (average: 15% per year) and the 36 month residual is 56% (average: 14.66% per year), slightly better.

     

    If money matters, Audi is currently the obvious choice, assuming if your passion for the vehicles is roughly the same. I have posted on the A4 Forum concerning my observations as to availability. If money really matters, play chicken with the inventory of 2005s, you may not get the color and equipment that you want exactly, but I bet you do better than I was able to. The 2005.5-2006s will be here around 3/1/2005.

     

    Good luck.
  • jmobjmob Member Posts: 3
    Thanks, Car_Man!

     

    The full MSRP including destination charges is $24864. We intend to drive it it 15,000 miles per year.

     

    What effect DOES a down payment have on a lease?

     

    Thanks!

    JMOB
  • lycanthrislycanthris Member Posts: 36
    Another question for you Car_man:

     

    Wanted to know residual, MF and payment for the following:

    2005 Honda Pilot EX (no leather or navi)

    MSRP: $30,435

    Selling Price: $27,932

     

    Looking for a 24 or 36 mo lease at 12k/yr

     

    Thanks!
  • jmobjmob Member Posts: 3
    OOPS! The MSRP is $27,100 - the selling price is $24684. We intend to drive it for 3 years at 15,000 per year.
  • planomanplanoman Member Posts: 12
    What are the current lease rates for Lexus RX330 with premium package in Texas - I would appreciate if you can let me know of base money factor and residual values for 36 and 48 month terms, 15,000 miles per year.
  • keyman21keyman21 Member Posts: 4
    Car Man,

     

    I am currently leasing an '02 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo. My payoff is $21,295. My lease terms are 15k/4years. I have 16 payments left and currently have 63k on the car. I want to get out of it. My monthly payments are around $550. The dealers appraisals have all been around $13,000. What makes the most sense? To lease again or buy??? I need the same payment preferably less. I have a GMS authorization number and I am looking at the Saturn Vue and the Chevy Equinox. Also looking into Honda Accords and Toyota Camrys. Any suggestions on how I can take the sting out of my negative milage???

    Will listen to anything.

     

    Keyman21
  • trneal276trneal276 Member Posts: 13
    Hey Carman,

     

    I know you are busy, but have you had time work out my numbers on a 2005 Ford Escape. Just some reminder info:

     

    Turning in my current least with 4 payments left - totaling approx. $1,300

     

    MSRP of Escape is $26,605, selling price is $24,913.

     

     

    $2000 in incentive money, plus $500 in return customer money.

     

    Total out of pocket (taxes, reg., 1st month payment) is $2000

     

    Monthly payment is $398

     

    39 month lease, 10.5K miles per years.

     

    How does this sound? Any help would be appreciated.

     

    Terry
  • kchen7kchen7 Member Posts: 2
    Hi Car_man, I currently have an offer for a

    2005 BMW X3 3.0i custom order:

     

    $38650 invoice with my options

     

    + $440 over

    + $330 MACO

    + $326 License/reg

    + $45 Doc fee (?)

    + $5 Tire fee (??)

    + $825 acquisition fee

     

    MF 0.00125 for 36 mo/15k

     

    --Is the MACO fee legitimate? Doc/tire fee??

     

    --I know the bank fee is marked up $200,

    but the sales manager said that even he has

    to pay that when he buys a car from his

    dealership because the finance managers need

    to make something since their giving the base

    MF rate. Is he blowing smoke?

     

    Should I insist on the base bank fee?

    What do you think of this deal overall?

     

    Thanks.
  • prince812prince812 Member Posts: 35
    Car_man,

    I am also interested in what Tier 1 credit is and what the other tiers scores breakoff points are. I am applying for Toyota financing but I also wonder if everyone's tier 1 is the same.

     

    Lastly I am considering leasing the 05 Avalon, do you have residual figures in yet for the Limited with Nav, Laser cruise and VSC? Is there any lease support for them? If you do have the residual and at a selling price of 37,600 for 36 month and 15K with 0 down what would my lease payments be?
  • seacarfanseacarfan Member Posts: 4
    Hi Car_man:

     

    Sitting at the MB dealership is an 04 E500 4MATIC with cd changer, heated seats, and moonroof. Original MSRP is a little over $63165, and it is being offered at $54995. It has approximately 550 miles on it.

     

    The vehicle was PUT IN SERVICE 9/30/04, which was explained to me that MB 'forced' the dealership to purchase the vehicle, thus beginning the clock on the warranty from that date forward. However, the dealership states that the car has never been titled.

     

    Here's the lease offered:

    Selling price $54995

    Residual $34025 (which is a claimed 55%, although it appears lower)

    Money factor .00295

    39 months at 10K miles per year

    Payment is $832.59 + tax/lic

     

    What do you think? Seems like at the very least, the money factor is high.

     

    Thanks for your input.

     

    Seacarfan
  • sfcharliesfcharlie Member Posts: 402
    Car_Man:

     

    A general question about the relationship of your figures to those yielded by the Edmunds lease calculator. For example, when I enter $30,500 as cost of a 2005 BMW 325i, the lease calculator produces a monthly payment figure (with tax) of $640, for 24 months, whereas your calculations yielded a payment (even though without taxes) of only $429. Similarly, you had suggested $392 for a 2005 Mini convertible priced at $25,900 for 24 months; while Edmunds' calculator yields a figure of $561 (although, again, Edmunds is with the tax -- but the tax can't account for the difference).

     

    Thanks for any clarification...SFCharlie
  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Terry, according to my calculations, if you were to lease a 2005 Ford Escape XLS 4WD with an MSRP of $26,605 and a selling price of $24,903 through Ford Credit right now for 36 months with 10,500 miles per year, your zero down, pre-tax monthly payment should be around$389.

     

    Car_man

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    You're welcome, 6422130. Unfortunately, Toyota Financial Services' residualization policy is for the birds. It has strict guidelines as to what options and packages can and can be residualized and it places a cap on the ones that it does allow. I am not sure how much of the $6,500 option package that you are interested in could be residualized. Sorry that I could not be of more help.

     

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Greetings benderofbows. I am familiar with the advertised lease that you are talking about. A lease money factor and residual value of .00077 and 55% were used to arrive at it. It is based upon a car that has a full MSRP of $20,990 and a capitalized cost of $18,593. If one was to add the down payment back into the cap cost, it brings it to $19,592. Using these numbers, a zero down, three year lease of this car would have a monthly payment of around $248. The advertised deal is approximately $650 over invoice. I suspect that you may be able to shave another couple hundred dollars off of this price if you shop around.

     

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Thanks for the info, kyfdx. That is very interesting. I guess that the market for this car varies depending upon what part of the country one is in. In my neck of the woods, where there is snow on the ground grrrrrrrrrr, Mini sales are very soft right now, especially for Cooper convertibles. Perhaps dealers are sticking to their guns and not selling each other out by cutting grosses. Good for them if that is the case. I suppose that all Mini dealers also have BMW stores to keep them afloat during lean times.

     

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hey stalnaker. Audi's lease program is currently scheduled to run through February 28th. It is difficult to say what its March lease program will be like at this point, but I suspect that Audi will at least maintain its current level of support, if not enhance it because the arrival of the redesigned A4 is right around the corner.

     

    As far as the Audi lease only allowing 10,000 miles per year goes, many automakers, especially European luxury manufacturers, advertise leases on vehicles with this low mileage allowance. By doing so they can advertise a lower monthly payment than if they had advertised a lease with 12,000 or 15,000 miles per year. You can still take advantage of the lease support that is available on the A4 and lease it with a higher mileage limit.

     

    If you are in a major metropolitan area where there is a decent amount of competition for your business, you should be able to negotiate a selling price that is lower than full MSRP on all of the vehicles that you mentioned, especially the A4. As I mentioned earlier, the completely redesigned version of this car will arrive very soon and I am sure that dealers will be anxious to unload their remaining old models.

     

    For leases of the vehicles that you mentioned in your post through their captive finance companies for 3 years with 12,000 miles per, I cam up with zero down, pre-tax monthly payments of $373 for the TSX, $468 for the TL, $463 for the MDX, and $325 for the A4. All of these payments assume a discount of $1,000 from MSRP. If you are able to negotiate a lower selling price than that, their payments would be lower.

     

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    No problem, twalter. Here is the Maxima info that you are looking for. If you were to lease a 2005 Nissan Maxima 3.5 SE through Nissan Motor Acceptance Corp. right now for 2 years with 15,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00199 and 61%, respectively. the numbers for an otherwise identical 3 year lease should be .00162 and 54%.

     

    Car_man

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hi aleekeller. It sounds like you need to be allowed to put between 30,000 and 50,000 miles per year on your vehicle. I really don't think that leasing is for you. You would be able to lease a vehicle with 15,000 miles per year and then purchase additional miles on a per-mile basis, but I am not sure if most banks even allow that many miles to be purchased and if they do you would be talking about one heck of an expensive lease. How cost efficient it would be for you to do this would depend upon the cost per additional mile. If I was in your situation, I personally would purchase or finance a reliable vehicle, like a Honda / Acura or a Toyota / Lexus rather than leasing.

     

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Thanks for the additional information, clp091. According to my calculations, if you were to lease a 2005 Toyota 4Runner Limited with an MSRP of $38,351 and a selling price of $34,725 through Toyota Financial Services in your area right now for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, its zero down, pre-tax monthly lease payment should be around $416. If you need to drive more miles than this you would have to purchase them on a per-mile basis. It is less expensive to to do at lease signing than it is to wait until the end of your lease and have to pay an excess mileage penalty.

     

    Car_man

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    You're welcome, nupeskee. I am not sure exactly what credit rating one needs to have to qualify for Toyota Financial Services' credit tiers. If I had to make an educated guess, I would say that Tier 1+ is probably 730 or higher and Tier 1 is probably in the high sixes to 730.

     

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  • CarMan@EdmundsCarMan@Edmunds Member Posts: 38,514
    Hey SFCharlie. The two main way that dealers can make money on leases are vehicles' selling prices and by marking-up their money factors. If the dealer that you leased your BMW from used a money factor that is higher than BMW FS' base factor was at that time, this is very likely if you were not aware of what it was, then they made money there that you may have been able to negotiate out.

     

    Car_man

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  • euzaeuza Member Posts: 10
    Hi There

    I'm trying to get some data for a 4Runner lease in the southeast region(florida) but the dealers I contacted were evasive in that matter.

    Does anybody know what is the money factor and residual % for a 4Runner? (36 months, 12k/15k miles a year)
  • sfcharliesfcharlie Member Posts: 402
    Hey, Car_Man:

     

    I'm replying to my own message (#16461) because I mis-calculated the Mini lease payment on the Edmunds calculators (I used 24 months, by mistake, instead of 36 months). Using 36 months, the Edmunds calculator still comes up higher than you did -- you at $392 pre-tax and them at $478 with tax. Since we're on Edmunds, how come the disparity?

     

    Thanks, for all yout time and energy...SFCharlie
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,262
    not the expert..

     

    1) If you want a lease payment, you'll have to supply the MSRP of the car..

     

    2) If you are negotiating from invoice up.. then MACO is indeed a legitimate fee..

     

    3) Tire fee is a government charge

     

    4) Document fee is a dealer charge.. I personally wouldn't quibble over $45 though.. seems reasonable.

     

    5) Since they are selling at $440 over invoice, and they are using the base MF, then the $200 bump in the acq.fee equates to $640 over invoice.. a very good deal, and that is the way I would look at it..

     

    6) What is the MSRP and how many miles/year will you drive it?

     

     
    7) What payment was quoted, and does it include tax?

    regards,

    kyfdx

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,262
    not the expert...

     

    sfcharlie:

     

    I just tried out the Edmunds lease calculator.. as I hadn't used it before.. It gave me $392 as well..

     

    The calculator throws in a lot of extra numbers, that you have to change to zeroes... tax rate, acquisition fees, registration, etc, etc..

     

    Always take tax out of the equation.. No calculator can fathom all of the different ways to figure sales tax.

    In addition, it doesn't figure the residual value for you... You have to make that calculation manually...

     

    If you get all the variables correct, and remove all the miscellaneous charges, and calculate the residual correctly.. it does give you an accurate number. I've seen better calculators on the web.

     

    regards,

    kyfdx

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  • sfcharliesfcharlie Member Posts: 402
    Thanks, kyfdx...

     

    Whatever your level of expertise, it's greater than mine...I'm just feeling my way along.

     

    So, you muat be using the same residual as Car_Man. What is that number? Is the Edmunds money factor accurate? Are we removing all those numbers and replacing them with zeroes because a savvy leaser won't pay them? Or just for the purpose of getting a clean baseline monthly lease payment onto which those other things are added as up front costs?

     

    Regards,

    SFCharlie
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,262
    Car_man.. I'm sure someone, somewhere has received discounts from MSRP on a MINI, but reading other forums, it seems it is a very rare occurrence..

     

    I do know that the supply/demand curve has changed in favor of buyers, but I think the distance between MINI dealers keeps price competition down..

     

    In fact, my local dealer had an ad in the paper this week: "How soon can you get a MINI? How soon can you get here?"

     

    Meaning that they had cars on the ground that aren't spoken for... But, they still insist on MSRP. Of course, my local dealer is not the place to get a good buy on a BMW, either..

     

    Who knows? Maybe if you were willing to take whatever was sitting on the lot, you might be able to get $500-$1000 off... but, I wouldn't bet on it..

     

    regards,

    kyfdx

    (who would look mighty good in an MCS)

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  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,262
    In an earlier post, Car-man stated that the MF was .0025, and the residual was 60% ($15,540).

     

    Those were the figures I used...

     

    And, yes.. I removed all the numbers to get a clean, baseline payment...

     

    Other than the acquisition fee (which can still be increased by the dealer), all other fees are variable, depending on where you live, and what your dealer wants to charge...

     

    You have to pay an acquisition fee.. And, of course, you have to pay sales tax, and licensing and registration fees to your local/state government.. Anything else comes under the heading of dealer profit. Profit is okay.. but, the profit in selling a car at MSRP should be enough..

     

    regards,

    kyfdx

    (not the expert)

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This discussion has been closed.