Postwar Studebakers

ab348 · October 2018

Nice car, though I’m not a fan of the wheels.

uplanderguy · October 2018

I like the wheels; they're very 'period'. Not real evident in the pics, but they have spinners or "knock offs". The regular '64 full wheelcover is a good-looking cover I think too.

A Stude I saw in a traffic lineup Friday, was one I tried to take a pic of, but my phone died just at that instant. A black '63 "Studebaker Standard" four-door, black, totally authentic on off-white wheels and dog-dish caps, correct-width whitewalls, and perfect "Chestnut" color interior. Guy said it had 9,000 miles and had been bought new by a pastor--again, probably pointing to my memory of older folks buying later Studes and maybe explaining why there are such low-mileage cars out there. Wish I had a pic of it.

The "Standard" was a mid-year offering, due to dealer pressure to have something to offer at a rock-bottom price--sort of like the Scotsman idea, but the "Standard" at least had chrome bumpers! But there was no Lark lettering on it, it had an armrest only on the driver's door, didn't have the standard "Vanity" glove compartment but a simple box with an opening at the top, and no "STUDEBAKER" lettering across the decklid.

I've mentioned this before, but I like the white wheels Stude had from '62-66. It gave cars with dog dish caps a sprinkling of 'whitewall' look.

berri · October 2018

I kind of miss the more squared off and angular styling of the old days. Getting tired of bar of soap lookalikes. That Studebaker looks good in dark red.

uplanderguy · October 2018

They called it "Bordeaux Red". I was never a fan of the tomato reds seen so often on '62-64 big Fords in my parts. I saw a really nice light blue metallic '63 1/2 Galaxie 500XL two-door hardtop, and it was refreshing to not see it in tomato red or powder blue (generic names I'm using here)!

fintail · October 2018

Funny, I've called the early 60s Ford red "Tomato Red" too. That was the color of my dad's 60 wagon, with white two tone and matching interior.

I've been visiting my mom, and went through some old photos. I found this one, with a 2 door Lark in the background:

I showed her the pic and she remembered it immediately, that's her and my grandpa during the time of the Seattle World's Fair, so this would be summer of 62.

omarman · October 2018

Grandpa is left handed and holding a cellular flip phone of the future from the '62 Seattle World's Fair!

berri · October 2018

I miss the old days when I'd visit Seattle. It was the ideal situation of a big town. Now it is big city with a New York type skyline and LA congestion. Soon you won't even be able to make out the Space needle from the Sound or air without straining your eyes.

fintail · October 2018

Maybe grandpa was a time traveler, and it's an iPhone.

Stude was big in Seattle, I remember seeing this old clipping a few years ago:

Back in the old days, normal working people here could afford to buy a detached house, too. That's long gone.

uplanderguy · October 2018

That Lark with your Mom and her Dad was a '59 or '60. Nice sales job on those '63's by "The Studebaker Center"!

uplanderguy · October 2018

Back for a moment to that red '64--since South Bend closed Dec. 20, 1963, any Avanti-powered Studebaker for '64 model year was only built between August and Dec. '63. Those engines were not available when all production was centralized in Hamilton, Ontario in Jan. '64.

uplanderguy · October 2018

I'm fascinated by the JFK era. I entered kindergarten in Sept. '63 and have vague memories of the time and JFK's assassination, as well as remembering the Studebaker dealer building in our town. Studebaker shut down U.S. production on Dec. 20, 1963, which was very big business news nationally. I think a whole lot of things changed around then, and then a welcome 'fun' thing happened shortly afterwards when the Beatles were on Ed Sullivan in early February '64. Everything seemed to change then. To me, even 1965 model cars largely seemed to break from the '64 and older styles--for most every domestic manufacturer. An interesting time in U.S. history and pop culture for sure.

ab348 · October 2018

I was in grade 2 in the fall of '63. I have vague memories of things prior to that, John Glenn's spaceflight probably most prominent, but I do remember the events of Nov 22/63 quite well. I recall one appearance of the Beatles on the Sullivan show, but am unsure if it was the first one - they superimposed the names of each of the 4 members on the bottom of the screen when they did solo camera shots, and with Lennon they added "(sorry girls, he's married)" under his name.

omarman · October 2018

ab348 said:
I was in grade 2 in the fall of '63. I have vague memories of things prior to that, John Glenn's spaceflight probably most prominent, but I do remember the events of Nov 22/63 quite well. I recall one appearance of the Beatles on the Sullivan show, but am unsure if it was the first one - they superimposed the names of each of the 4 members on the bottom of the screen when they did solo camera shots, and with Lennon they added "(sorry girls, he's married)" under his name.

ab348 · October 2018

Ha! That's it!

berri · October 2018

I'm fascinated by the JFK era
You would probably enjoy the JFK presidential museum in Boston then if you haven't already been there.

uplanderguy · October 2018

I would like the JFK Museum. I have been to Dallas to the Sixth Floor Museum and would like to get back there sometime.

uplanderguy · October 2018

Looking through Hershey '18 pics again; here are a couple more of that '64 Daytona that knocked my socks off, plus a '63 Avanti R2 that was one row behind it. '63 Olds F-85 Cutlass or Jetfire next to the Avanti.

uplanderguy · October 2018

berri · October 2018

I'm getting old Up - I think I like the formal 2dr HT over the Avanti. BUT, some of that may be because of the close in front Avanti shot making the headlights stick out a bit much.

uplanderguy · October 2018

For a car that was priced along with the Chevy II Nova two-door hardtop to start with, I really like the '64 Daytona Hardtop. Of course, there were options available on the Daytona, like the car above is equipped with, that weren't available on Chevy II's and would've driven the price of this particular car up.

I like that only 2,414 1964 Daytona Hardtops were built, so they're a rare sight, but equipped with the blower and a 4-speed, the numbers are ridiculously low. There were 3,800-odd '63 Avantis built, so the Daytona is rarer than a '63 Avanti (although only 809 '64 Avantis, with the square enclosed headlights, were built).

As an aside, I think GM built so many units of everything, for a long time I just accepted most anything GM did as 'good styling'. But I've been into Studebakers for long enough, that I'll often (not always) look at a GM design, like that '63 F-85 next to the Avanti, and say "meh".

To me, the front end of an Avanti is probably the worst angle, LOL. I like it particularly from the rear, and in profile if it retains its original rake.

I like the straightforward instrument panel of the Daytona (which is similar to my '66 Cruiser). Large, readable gauges right in front of the driver; no silliness like gauges on the floor, strapped to the steering column, or out on the hood.

uplanderguy · October 2018

I always liked this brochure page showing the rear of an Avanti, 'before and after', LOL:

http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/static/NA/Avanti/1963 Avanti/Brochure/image10.html

berri · October 2018

I've read comparisons back then of the Avanti and Corvette, but personally thought the Avanti was more of a Thunderbird competitor (not a slap, I liked Thunderbird's. Just that Avanti was more upscale inside than a Corvette - although the original Sting Ray had a very nice dash).

uplanderguy · October 2018

To me, the Avanti leans more Corvette than Riviera or Thunderbird--had real bucket seats and wasn't frilly inside--but with a back seat, of course. I don't think I ever saw a real one until I was a young adult. My dealer friend said that although he had one in for people to test drive, on loan from the zone office for three days, he never sold one.

berri · October 2018

Funny - I recall a review years back that said one of Avanti's problems was that consumers didn't know what it really was. Personally, I think the bigger issue was that buyers may have been reluctant to spend bigger bucks on a company that could end up making it an orphan. Lots of brands bit the dust a decade or less earlier.

uplanderguy · October 2018

Yes, and also a lot of early orders were cancelled due to production problems because of body problems at MFG in Ashtabula, OH. Studebaker ended up making bodies in-house at South Bend. Production wasn't ramped up until about six months after introduction. I remember a PBS special on Studebaker from the '80's where a VP was interviewed and said a dealer had built an "Avanti room" and come introduction day, he didn't have a car and called South Bend, quite angry. The VP said in the interview that most dealers didn't have one on introduction day. Bad stuff for sure.

uplanderguy · November 2018

On BaT now. Pretty healthy bidding for a white, column-shift automatic car. A '64 Gran Turismo Hawk is really my favorite Studebaker. DNA from the '53 still (although I've read that only a handful of part nos. are the same), but elegant in a way different from other cars.

The decklid-mounted antenna was not used in the '64 model year but it seems a fair amount of owners like it and put it on their cars.

I'm not a fan of the accessory door handle guards, but at least they're installed correctly on this car. Probably half the cars I see with them have them installed upside-down.

Studebaker often used the word "classic" in describing these last Hawks. They knew they were the oldest body shell still being used in the industry. But I love the cars.

They retooled the decklid, removing the grooves that were underneath the metal panel used on '62 and '63 models to make the smooth, plain decklid. I like this touch. I'd say they didn't recoup their tooling costs at less than 2,000 units.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1964-studebaker-gran-turismo-hawk-2/?fbclid=IwAR2xeLgDbwltRg_XX1lxpnkrPtILhvA-wrIzYIjBVwB8K1p-kk1IKCSvrRQ

berri · November 2018

Looks nice except hokey trunk antenna.

uplanderguy · November 2018

Agreed.

That serial number would put it in October '63 production.

'64 Hawks were built only from August through December '63, as they did not build them at Hamilton, Ontario when Studebaker centralized all production there in January '64.

ab348 · November 2018

Wow, the '64 Hawk is just gorgeous. What a lovely car! Price reflects that. I'd say it's probably worth it.

Interesting to see that the shift indicator goes P-N-D-L-R. Is that a Borg-Warner transmission?

uplanderguy · November 2018

Yes, that's a Borg-Warner. You pull away in second gear, but playing with the shift lever back-and-forth, you can get a 1-2-3 shift from stop. I was always nervous about trying that though, LOL.

The optional floor-shift automatic was a P-R-N-D-2-1--the Avanti transmission. I much-prefer that in a Hawk. But still, this is a nice car.

Those exhaust deflectors are correct. The exhaust actually exits from below.

uplanderguy · November 2018

The '64 Hawk sold for $20,000.

bhill2 · November 2018

uplanderguy said:
Yes, that's a Borg-Warner. You pull away in second gear, but playing with the shift lever back-and-forth, you can get a 1-2-3 shift from stop. I was always nervous about trying that though, LOL.

The optional floor-shift automatic was a P-R-N-D-2-1--the Avanti transmission. I much-prefer that in a Hawk. But still, this is a nice car.

Those exhaust deflectors are correct. The exhaust actually exits from below.

Oh, that shifting trick with the P-R-N-D-2-1 selector worked well. My dad had a '64 Rambler with that transmission back when I was too young to have good sense (like considering what would happen to me if I blew up the transmission). In any case, you started out in L. When you wanted to shift into 2nd you put it in D and then back into L (you had to be going fast enough for the transmission to know it couldn't go back into 1st, but that was never a problem at the time). Finally, when you ran out of revs or nerve, whichever came first, you put it in D and it shifted into 3rd. I actually got it up to an indicated 100 in second gear once. My dad traded it in before any consequences developed.

uplanderguy · November 2018

I think with that trans, you could click 1-2-3 while accelerating. With the "PNDLR" quadrant, there was some way you could get a 1-2-3 shift by moving the lever up, then down, then up, or something like that. That really scared me! I would go from "L" to "D" on occasion.

I'm thinking that that P-R-N-D-2-1 Borg Warner was exclusive to Studebaker in '63, but sounds like it was used by other makers in '64 and later. In fact, I think it debuted on the Avanti which started to trickle out before the rest of the '63 Studebakers did.

I saw a '64 Bonneville with floor-shift automatic online recently, and I saw it had a quadrant with 'R' at the bottom, still, too.

EDIT: Now that I re-read your post, I think you may be talking about the same thing I was in the P-N-D-L-R quadrant. I'm almost sure that in the Stude P-R-N-D-2-1 you could hold the car in second by moving the selector from 1-2 before clicking into 'D'. Not sure though.

uplanderguy · November 2018

I just "adopted" a car at the Studebaker National Museum in South Bend in memory of

my friend and hometown dealer. They sent me these pics today:

fintail · November 2018

I plan to be there a week from tomorrow.

uplanderguy · November 2018

Hope you enjoy your trip. I'm sure you will.

The Stude Museum isn't enormous, but it's professionally designed for sure and supposedly one of only three accredited car museums in the U.S. (although not entirely sure what that means). I'd replace some of the carriages with cars, but that's me.

For a defunct make, I'm proud of it, and you'll note the Archives building across the street full of decades' worth of documentation including blueprints, for Studebakers and Packards, and also the "Avanti Guest House" behind the Archives building, which people can rent when they're in town.

I know you have a tight schedule, but you should try and drive down to 635 S. Main St., maybe two miles or so from the museum, and see if the old '60 M-B is still parked across the street from the old corporate office building. I bet it is.

There are three total floors in the Studebaker National Museum, so remember to see the basement too while you're there.

You may well drive past "Tippecanoe Place", now a restaurant, which was Clement Studebaker's mansion. It's enormous.

uplanderguy · November 2018

berri, back to the Avanti for a minute--maybe you know, but the Avanti held the record for "World's Fastest Production Car" for awhile, from USAC testing at Bonneville.

fintail · November 2018

I'll keep that in mind when I am there, I am sure I will have a few extra minutes. That day I plan to do Studebaker and the RV/Motorhome museum in Elkhart.

In that first pic of the 52, I get a strong fintail vibe from that blue Cruiser with white steering wheel in the background.

uplanderguy · November 2018

Yeah, that's a nice car; a lowline Lark Regal model but as I've said, in four-doors, I like the '63 Larks the best of all. It has whitewalls a bit wider than factory, but up to the wheel as the cars had. That was in the old museum building (which was in an old Studebaker dealership building near the Administration Building) when I first went to South Bend in the mid-'80's.

I think no one will confuse a '63 Lark four-door with a fintail, but like you, I think the one reminds me of the other.

fintail · November 2018

I can see some shared traits, and it isn't unpleasant (and probably not accidental). Looks like a nice color too.

berri · November 2018

PNDLR - I'm thinking, but not totally sure, that I had a 63 Olds with something like PNDSLR??? That was a long time ago. I Bought that tank with a fair amount of mileage on it during college. Sadly, brown matched its condition by then. It did go through snow very well.

berri · November 2018

You know Up, like you, I'm more of a Hawk GT fan than Avanti. Nice car you are sponsoring.

sda · November 2018

berri said:
PNDLR - I'm thinking, but not totally sure, that I had a 63 Olds with something like PNDSLR??? That was a long time ago. I Bought that tank with a fair amount of mileage on it during college. Sadly, brown matched its condition by then. It did go through snow very well.

My parent's bought a '63 Dynamic 88 Holiday coupe in '65 and kept it until '71. It was a cold natured beast that didn't like to start and ran poorly until it warmed up. It leaked oil from day one. Dad didn't like it because he thought the front seat was uncomfortable. The slim jim transmission shifted oddly and roughly, though that was normal for that trans. They replaced it in '71 with a '69 Olds 98 LS sedan, which they liked much better.

berri · November 2018

The trannies in those were a POS, I think they also used it in the Pontiacs of that era.

fintail · November 2018

Here's something I saw at Volo today, made me think of you, uplander. It was a nice car, sitting out in the rain:

sda · November 2018

fintail said:
Here's something I saw at Volo today, made me think of you, uplander. It was a nice car, sitting out in the rain:

cool, any pics for ab348--'68 Cutlass next to the Studebaker? In the local elections, there is a candidate running whose last name is....Studebaker!

ab348 · November 2018

I noticed that 4-4-2 right away.

fintail · November 2018

I didn't get a pic of it - I photographed a small amount of the stock there, as there is just so much, I was looking for the really unusual (and it was cold and wet out).

Here's the ad listing for the 442

ab348 · November 2018

You'd think for $38K they would have been able to stitch up the driver's seat. A little scruffy underhood too. But a nice car, if overpriced.

uplanderguy · November 2018

That's a California-built Speedster, as it has the "President" nameplate on the quarter.

I don't love those cars, but they have great leather seating IMHO and a specific instrument panel.

Thankfully it's not the "lemon and lime" color scheme it seems like most were.

Thanks for posting!

Postwar Studebakers

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