Postwar Studebakers

ab348 · November 2018

Ahem.

uplanderguy · November 2018

I always liked this factory postcard of a Blue Mist '63 Lark Daytona Skytop.

fintail · November 2018

I did a quick google on Golde-equipped MBs. It appears most chatter online is around sliding metal roofs on Pontons. These were apparently aftermarket, maybe procured by the selling dealer or with company support, but apparently not in primary sales material. Here's a car:

Here's a Stude in the basement that you might like, uplanderguy:

uplanderguy · November 2018

I do remember a good number of VW Beetles having fabric tops quite like Studebaker Skytops. Maybe I'm confusing VW's with M-B's in my mind.

That '62 Lark Daytona was in the old museum building the first time I ever went there in the mid'80's. It's a twenty-footer, but a nice model. I've never known them once to have it displayed upstairs in the current building.

fintail · November 2018

I believe for Pontons, the cloth tops were a factory item and are more common than a sliding metal. I am not an expert though. I know the sliding metal roof was a factory option on fintails.

Not a ton of Stude content at Gilmore, but this counts:

uplanderguy · November 2018

Indeed it does. Condition-for-condition, it seems to me these bring the most money of any Hawk. People goof on the styling, but really...I can think of some '58 GM products that look a lot more garish, not to mention fat, to my eyes.

I'm thinking the red wheels aren't factory, but still, this car presents nicely and has that lovely leather seating we were talking about earlier.

uplanderguy · November 2018

I remember my dealer friend telling me long ago, when I first sent him pics of my Skytop, that he "...believe(d) that they were made by the same company who made the tops for Mercedes". He then told me had drove as a demo, a red '62 Lark four-door sedan with the Skytop and how he liked it because "it was wind, but not too much like a convertible".

Long story short, but a college prof, his friend, and an assistant went through all the 1963 V8 Studebaker producion orders (build sheets) to see how many R1 and R2 engines were built, and which serial nos. had them. My wife and I went back and looked at the 628 Lark two-door sedan, four-door sedan, and two-door hardtop sheets to see how many cars were built with both Skytop and Avanti-power. Ours was the very first serial number, and there were only fourteen. Seven were R1's (like ours); seven were R2's (supercharged). Seven had factory A/C like ours. Eleven were Daytona 2-door hardtops (like ours); one was a Lark Custom two-door sedan, and two were Cruisers (top-line four-door sedan).

uplanderguy · November 2018

Photo taken by Ed George, of the "Performance Studebakers" contingent at the MCACN (Muscle Cars and Corvette Nationals) getting set up, in Chicagoland now.

I'm surprised to see and hear that the Studebaker National Museum trailered 64V-20202, the last car off the South Bend line there--second from left.

uplanderguy · November 2018

Only ten R3 engines, conservatively rated at 335 hp and supposedly closer to 400, were installed on the South Bend line; nine in Avantis, but the single one installed in a Lark-type is at this show too. A dark blue '64 Commander two-door sedan. Talk about a sleeper.

fintail · November 2018

I think the "for Mercedes" line is accurate enough, as Golde probably had ties to dealers where maybe sales would try to upsell people into a sunroof, maybe even a direct line of reference with Studebaker itself.

Sounds like you did a Marti report type of analysis on your Skytop. I wish that kind of minutiae could be performed on all cars.

uplanderguy · November 2018

I think it's almost amazing that that information survives for Studebakers. Supposedly somehow the archives ended up moving to Syracuse University in NY and were subsequently moved back to South Bend a few decades ago. I don't know anything about the Syracuse connection.

uplanderguy · November 2018

I've since read that the white '63 Daytona Hardtop in the MCACN pic above is the very first serial number R1 Daytona Hardtop, and the '64 from the museum is the very last serial number R1 Daytona Hardtop.

fintail · November 2018

Here's a view of some cars in the basement, that makes me think of something:

I don't recall seeing a Wagonaire.

uplanderguy · November 2018

You're right. They only have that prototype sort-of Wagonaire shown on the upper level.

ab348 · November 2018

What’s the story on that forward control truck?

uplanderguy · November 2018

It was a prototype design that Westinghouse had commissioned. They wanted it practical and cheap, and this version looks the part.

I'm thinking the front suspension doesn't work and that when found there was a sign on the streering wheel that said something along the lines of, "Does not steer", LOL.

fintail is right that there are a fair amount of prototypes there and that is interesting to me, especially those last few years.

They have a cab of the '49-59 pickups and '60-64 one-tons and larger, made entirely out of wood, on display. A mockup of some sort. That was neat.

uplanderguy · November 2018

That early Lark at the bottom right of the pic is one they were playing with a rear-engine four-cylinder installation. I'm actually thinking it was a Porsche engine but I just can't recall for certain.

uplanderguy · November 2018

Photo from Ed George, of the front of the Studes on display at the MCACN in Chicago now:

That white '63 sure looks a lot like my old one, but mine had a white Skytop. Funny that this car on display is the first R1 Daytona hardtop built, and mine was the first Avanti-powered Studebaker Skytop built.

The front bumper guards are in one bolt too close on each side on that '63. Still, looks like a really nice car.

uplanderguy · November 2018

Photo posted by the Studebaker National Museum this morning of the last regular-production Studebaker built in South Bend, with 28 miles, at the MCACN in Chicago:

uplanderguy · November 2018

Not the biggest engine available, but 240 hp in this 109-inch wheelbase car put it in Chevy 327 territory.

uplanderguy · November 2018

Shot including the '63 supercharged Avanti there.

I used to think "Avanti Red" looked washed-out, but after I saw a very similar color on '62 Corvettes and '64 Eldorados, I think higher of it now.

fintail · November 2018

The Lark sign along the staircase at Studebaker is a nice design touch, well done:

uplanderguy · November 2018

Supposedly those letters were from a dealership in either South Bend or Mishawaka. Did they have the 'body drop' with a thirties Stude just below here? Sometimes they take that display out when they have other temporary displays going on.

fintail · November 2018

Nope, I don't recall that. I want to say the stairway area was pretty open.

uplanderguy · November 2018

Here's a link to how it normally looks in that area:

https://www.dailyherald.com/article/20150713/entlife/150719952/

I've often said how that red Daytona has 28 miles, from my quickly sticking my head in the driver's window and stretching across the ropes. Well, so much for my eyesight, as the museum has a display at the MCACN saying that it has 23.8 miles. It's an R1, 4-speed, disc brake, in-dash tach, 50/50 split bench seat car. Amazing to me that anyone had the foresight to save the car, even at Studebaker.

In Chicago now, is the first time the car has ever been outside of South Bend.

uplanderguy · November 2018

That tiny little front-fender badge on the Avanti at the MCACN says "Supercharged" in script.

https://www.google.com/search?q=supercharged+emblem+avanti&rlz=1CASMAI_enUS745US747&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=lezR15vEl4ZJeM%3A%2CYxUg6PfAAce0-M%2C_&usg=AI4_-kQDoeau08ESs8XU0XODeZMPGGLyWA&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj45_jd6d3eAhWvooMKHa5VBjEQ9QEwAXoECAYQBA#imgrc=lezR15vEl4ZJeM:

uplanderguy · November 2018

Just reminded, that when I looked at the build sheets from the last day of South Bend "regular" production some years back (Avantis and trucks were built on separate lines), the four vehicles immediately before the red Daytona hardtop 'last car' were identical silver Challenger Wagonaires (lowest trim level), all V8's, ordered by the U.S. government although the department escapes me at the moment. I'm sure all were used up long ago. They built 111 cars that last day of operation, December 20, 1963, just under a month after JFK's assassination.

The red car was on NBC's "Huntley and Brinkley" nightly news on Dec. 20, although no pics of the car were supposed to have been taken by Company edict. I've tried to find the video clip to no avail.

uplanderguy · November 2018

Stumbled on this pic online, of one of the record-breaking Avantis at Bonneville which the Granatellis were driving. Last time I was at the museum (May) this car was there--no. 9. It's 'Avanti Gold' in color. Stude truck in background.

fintail · November 2018

Definitely didn't have that assembly line on display when I was there, I would have remembered that.

Here's a neat 4WD model from NATMUS:

uplanderguy · November 2018

I remember that truck at NATMUS, nice. I like the colors and although the basic cab body was getting long-in-the-tooth by then, I like the two-toning treatment and I like the vertical-toothed fiberglass grille they got in '57.

When that basic truck body was introduced for '49, it was considered modern in that the cab step was inside the door, the bed lacked a rolled edge at the top, and the steel bed was double-walled.

sda · November 2018

uplanderguy said:
Shot including the '63 supercharged Avanti there.

I used to think "Avanti Red" looked washed-out, but after I saw a very similar color on '62 Corvettes and '64 Eldorados, I think higher of it now.

Looking at the white and burgundy Lark, the greenhouse on each looks identical. Did they only do sheet metal and trim changes between the two or were there more significant changes on the newer models? I know there was the change to using Chevy engines.

uplanderguy · November 2018

Actually, the rooves are very different--I know the photo is small. Windshields are different; the '63 has the gutter that goes over the windshield and the '64 doesn't; door glass and quarter window glass is different; rear windows are different ('63 is a slight wraparound and '64 is flat), and the roof itself on the '64 is flatter and beveled around the rear window. The Chevy engines began with the '65 model year, built in Hamilton, Ontario after South Bend had shut down. The doors and rear quarters are identical on the '63 and 64. It's some real sleight-of-hand and IMHO, a good bit of styling change for the money spent. The '62 and '63 models look much, much closer, with the biggest external difference being the change from a wraparound windshield in '62 to a much-flatter windshield in '63. I have read that it cost more to make a '63 out of a '62, than a '64 out of a '63. They got way-bigger bang-for-the-buck in the '64 I think.

uplanderguy · November 2018

sda, here's a view of those cars from the rear. The '64 roof is lower and flatter and the rear window different. From the rear the differences are more apparent:

uplanderguy · November 2018

Was watching this CBS Evening News from Nov. 25, 1963, a special one-hour issue on the day of JFK's funeral, and at 53:35 Cronkite mentions Sherwood Egbert resigning the presidency of Studebaker that day. The South Bend shutdown was announced Dec. 9.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdVJXTPwyZs

sda · November 2018

uplanderguy said:
sda, here's a view of those cars from the rear. The '64 roof is lower and flatter and the rear window different. From the rear the differences are more apparent:

I see that now. I imagine the general structure underneath was unchanged. It's interesting to see how the styling evolved through time, going from somewhat elaborate (though nothing like the Chrysler compacts) to crisp, clean styling with less adornment.

uplanderguy · November 2018

The '63's look more European I think, but I like the two-door '64's, although a friend of mine whose family bought Studebakers in the sixties said they all thought at the time about the '64's, "They don't look like Studebakers anymore", LOL.

I always thought a two-door '64 looked like it didn't have an ounce of fat on it.

uplanderguy · November 2018

....which reminds me. My late dealer friend was visited by the Chrysler road man in '61 as our town's Dodge dealer had retired and the road man was courting my Studebaker dealer friend. He invited him to go to the '62 New Car Dealer Showing in Detroit to see the '62 Dodges ahead of introduction day. My friend did go. When asked what he thought, my friend replied, "Those look worse than Studebakers!". Needless to say, he didn't get the Dodge franchise, LOL.

uplanderguy · November 2018

Although this New York Times photo and article from 2013 doesn't specifically say it, that dark hardtop on the top of the trailer is the red car in the photo above.

https://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/21/automobiles/south-bend-ind-to-recall-studebakers-1963-departure.html

uplanderguy · November 2018

RE.: That four-wheel drive truck above in the photo--International picked up the "Transtar" name after Studebaker trucks went away in December 1963.

uplanderguy · November 2018

Sharp '51 Studebaker truck seen on Facebook today.

fintail · November 2018

Funny - I saw this at the Studebaker Museum, I remember it as it is another car from WA:

And then what do I see at Gilmore?

uplanderguy · November 2018

Wow, Coupe Express!

They are fairly rare, and bring some good bucks. They are beautiful, and I'm generally not a prewar guy.

But at A-C-D--how can you not be?

I have to get to Gilmore with my Stude buddies. Like Auburn, I'll most-likely drive

I'd like to do it with only one night's hotel stay, but Gilmore might be pushing that more than Auburn, IN did from where we live.

fintail · November 2018

I really like some 30s cars, so ACD and Gilmore both had some cars to push my buttons. I also like brass era cars, and was rewarded at both locations (especially the latter).

Gilmore is a bit of a hike from most areas, I think. Maybe it feels worse because the seats in that rental Armada just didn't work for me, after a couple hours, I was pretty sore. I think you'd need another night, there are decent sized towns nearby.

berri · November 2018

That prototype wagon had a lot of Wagonaire styling influence. Too bad they didn't have the prototype sedan and that the prototype wagon was elevated. The sedan was pretty spiffy for a potential 67 (I think) and the interior on all those prototypes were pretty forward looking as well.

fintail · November 2018

Another prototype/concept car:

Interesting interior and gauges:

berri · November 2018

That's the 67 coupe and glad you got to see all the inside and outside styling lines and cues of those prototypes, although I'm sure a production model would have probably toned it down a little. The old Brooks Stevens museum outside of Milwaukee had all three of them since he was involved in the styling.

uplanderguy · November 2018

The tinted glass panel in the "C" pillar and the electric-shaver-like grille are interesting touches I think. Stevens was a talented guy.

He was a guest at the Minneapolis Studebaker Drivers' Club International Meet in the '90's sometime. I wasn't there but read about it. He was in a wheelchair then, and the meet hotel lobby was set up to look like a '64 dealer introduction unveiling. Supposedly the first thing he said when he came out was, "Where were all of you in 1964?!", LOL.

uplanderguy · November 2018

I see the museum's ZipVan in the background, which were truly the last Studebakers assembled in South Bend, to complete the Post Office contract. All were six-cylinder automatics with Twin Traction. Supposedly they were used through 1970 and my Dad worked at our post office and I can remember them.

fintail · November 2018

Here's the ZipVan:

uplanderguy · November 2018

The "Studebaker" nameplate on only the right side was by design.

Whatever to keep the costs down to get the contract I guess.

Postwar Studebakers

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