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Comments
Cheers
Graham
I found a nice slippery deserted parking area to try out various situations. The handling was awesome. I was astounded though that I was able to get the car into an OVERSTEER! situation.
I would from standstill with the steering turned about 30 degrees floor the gas pedal. The car would get into an oversteer situation. This was controllable with countersteer and had great fun seeing the car going sideways and forward under opposite lock.
I do not understand this. I was expecting the front wheels to get traction when the rear ones are slipping and then pull the car forward. The drive bias after all is to the front.
Any suggestions?
Yes, I am still grinning and I am still in the dog box.
Daniel
let me say that this would be as fair as it could get here.
http://www.nrma.com.au/Page/Public?PageId=mot_best_cars_2000_index
gus
Bob
I don't really care about the dual range tran. because I don't "Off Road" but a market in which the WRX is available sure sounds good ! The owner of a local dealership seems to think that our version of the WRX will only have 215 hp. SOA if you're listening ... make it at least 250 hp. I'll buy one tomorrow !
- hutch
My sense is that these 4WD vehicles are used in Australia much more as they were originally intended, rather than the typical SUV usage here in the USA. Therefore I would probably put a lot of stock (value) into the Australian ratings.
Bob
The showroom featured the new Impreza wagon and WRX all souped up for rally use. Unfortuantely, I could only sit in the Impreza wagon.
First impression -- the front end was much to my dismay, even uglier in person than on the photos. The rounded nose and bulging headlights were not very attractive to say the least. I think the WRX sedan would look better since it has slightly more aggressive ground effects and fog lights to draw attention away from the "ovalness" of the headlights.
Other than the front, everything else looked good. From the side, the lines are crisper and sharper. From the back, I liked how the rear tailights angle upwards towards the corners -- gave it a more aggressive look.
Inside the vehicle -- Overall build quality seemed much more upscale. A tasteful amount of a silver metallic metal (brush finished, not shiny) was used around console and dash. Even the gauges had a little metal around them. The switches, knobs and handles all seemed to be more refined that that in the current Imprezas.
Overall inside space looked about the same. While the size was the same, the interior fabric also seemed to have been upgraded. It came in a combination of black and dark grey.
Anyway, I was able to snatch a whole stack of pamphlets (Legacy, Impreza and Forester) including the promotional video they have for the Impreza. Let me know if there's anything you'd like to know about in particular.
Ken
-mike
From the outside the vehicle looks like any OB. Only on the front and back are they any indication of the H6 underneath the hood. Also, VDC badges are on both sides of the car.
Popped open the hood and there it was. The H6 engine fills pretty much the entire engine bay, partly due to the plastic cover on the top. The bigger air intake was most noticeable.
Inside the vehicle, everything was pretty similar to an OB limited except for the very nice wood-trim steering wheel and McIntosh stereo. The steering wheel felt very good in my hands. The wood has a nice smooth feel to it but offered quite a bit of grip. The stereo also was sweet. Probably one of the best sounding stock stereos I've heard.
Now for performance. I took the VDC on 3 mile drive on local roads and freeway. Starting off, you can notice that there is more low end torque compared the the H4. Not neck snapping in anyway, but smooth.
Once out of the parking lot, I tried giving it more gas. While there was defintely more power compared to an H4 OB, it wasn't quite at the level I expected it to be. While the H4 is probably underpowered for the OB, the H6 feels like it's just adequate -- not a rocket by any means. My brother commented that it felt like this should be the base engine for the OBs. I was a bit disappointed to be honest.
Even with the increased HP and torque, the H6 still needed to be revved to 3,500RPM for it to start to kick in. Unfortunatley, that was often accompanied with sharp downshifts in the auto tranny and then H6 winding up the RPMs a bit noisily -- not something I would want in a vehicle that costs over $30K. Given the competition, I think Subaru seriously needs to mate the H6 to a 5-speed auto to allow for smoother shifts.
As for handling and roadfeel, the VDC wagon felt very sure footed and cornered well. I couldn't drive it hard enough to really feel the difference of VTD and VDC but it seemed to drive a bit more secure than the standard OBs.
Bottom line, while the H6 clearly offers more power than the H4, it isn't as big as one would expect. Probably more smoother and a bit quicker, but based on my limited drive, not a whole lot. The biggest turnoff was the transmission that keept downshifting whenever I needed a little more power. The biggest plus of the VDC wagon in my view isn't the H6, but the VDC.
If I were in the market today, I'd see what Subaru does with the H6 for the GT wagon. In the meantime, I think the H4 OBs are going to be a great buy at thousands less.
Ken
-mike
Craig
I think the auto-tranny downshifts were even more pronounced on the H6 because of the torque curve isn't as flat as on the H4. The difference of 2,000 RPM would make a difference with the H6.
Ken
http://www.gmpowertrain.com/transmissions/index.htm
-mike (flame suit on)
Bob
I think GM has long been recognized as one of the best automatic transmission suppliers in the business, so I have to agree with you. In general, American car companies have had better automatic transmissions than the Japanese or Europeans for many years now (though they have also had their share of failures). My fiancee has a 2000 Mazda 626, and the Ford supplied 4-speed auto is one of the best I've driven -- it shifts when you want it to, and downshifts just when it should. It makes the measly 130HP 4-cylinder feel a lot more potent than I expected. Definitely leagues ahead of the auto-trans in the Outback! I know Juice has mentioned a lot about mechanical problems with the Ford tranny, but they seem to have ironed out all the kinks in the latest 626s.
Craig
Ken: nice to have you back. Did your brother proceed with the purchase, or is he still shopping around?
Drew: like it or not, you've long since been an honorary Crew member. Anyone in doubt just read back on the Forester vs. CR-V topics.
paisan: good point, those rear doors on the CR-V and RAV4 still open the wrong way! Kind of funny, from such engineering powerhouses, that they can't figure out a simple door (Odyssey has had several recalls for door latches too, BTW). My baby carriage goes there, so basically I could never safely parallel park with either of those!
Daniel: oversteer? Indeed, and very controllable. Suggestion? Practice, so you become familiar with how it responds in emergency situations. Plus, it's fun. But that's not why we do it, right?
NRMA: Subaru rocks the house!
-juice
Living in NYC, I personally enjoy my automatic while in bumper to bumper traffic...
-mike
Give us a choice, though!
-juice
Bob
My .02.
Dennis
As for the "Best Cars in Australia", not just one but TWO Subies - I'm shocked! And pleased. It seems to me that the review criteria were far more comprehensive than the usual "best cars" thing the car mags do, and therefore they were tilted more towards bang-for-the-buck, and that is where Subaru shines. And what, no Isuzu? I guess we'll never know how the Trooper would have fared in such a thorough comparison ;-)
As for transmission choice, it is rare, very rare, but there have been times when I wished for an automatic. Even in the heavy traffic of the Bay Area, which was very heavy traffic indeed (did I mention how heavy the traffic was there?) the times were few that I wished for a slush box. The traffic has to be truly stop-and-go, with frequent full stops, for me to want anything without a clutch. However if I lived in the city of San Francisco or had to drive there often I would own an automatic. The hills are STEEP, and there are so many streets on hills, that a manual becomes impractical. It's a beautiful city! Just not too friendly to manual transmissions.
Cheers,
-wdb
re: Auto... when you watch the same traffic light change for 1 hr. straight while creeping down a block, the auto-trans is very very nice!
-mike
With the 5 speed my strategy is usually to creep forward, in gear. If people cut in front at least they usually wave!
-juice
Heh, I bet there will be snickering about the XC. I'm amazed that the ML55 did as well as it did with the non-M+S high performance Dunlop SP9000 tires! The X5 was shod with M+S Michelin MXV4+ all-seasons.
Drew/aling
Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
Here in Melbourne, I have a manual Outback which suits me fine. The traffic tends to move quickly with phased lights and the city was planned from the outset so there are wide boulevards. The only drag with it is the occassional heavy traffic which comes in every city. Here an auto is really not necessary. I rather like the manual with the dual range transmission for the poking around the bush i do so it is more sensible for me
Cheers
Graham
I may have already asked you this several months ago?? If so, my apologies. I seem to recall you (or somebody) saying that the gears do grind when changing from one range to another.
Bob
Bob also wondered whether Australian 4wd's are used more regularly off-road. Whilst I am scathing of the proliferation of them in the city, I was noticing the number coming back from the bush the other night, all looking rather muddy and many pulling trailers. Some are definitely used for off-roading. What is noticable though is that the preferred off-roaders are either the more workmanlike such as Landcruisers or Nissan Patrols or older 4wd's. Older Pajeros are very popular and from my memories of them ten years ago, very competent off road. Ancient Landrovers are also very popular. It probably won't go down too well with Americans but Jeeps are regarded as a bit too poofy to be serious off-road. There is however a lot of regard for very small 4wd's with ancient Suzukis and the likes being popular. I would love to get my hands on a Haflinger.
Cheers
Graham
-mike
Here in the States we only get the latest version with IFS - and absolutely loaded - leather, 4.7 DOHC V8, automatic - the works. Lexus gets an even spiffier version, the LX470. I don't know if you folks get the Lexus brand or not. Rarely are these ever used off road. They're mostly driven by soccer moms.
I remember being in the UK a few years ago and seeing a mid-sized Land Cruiser Colorado (looks like cross between our Izuzu Trooper and our Toyota 4Runner with the 3.4 DOHC V6). I think you get something like that too.
Bob
They are in a real snit about the new Jeep KJ (Cherokee replacement), which will debut at the Detroit show in January. It has IFS, and I believe also IRS(?). These Jeep folks are fit to be tied!
They're terrified that it will not be a true off-roader (or Jeep, for that matter), and will ruin the Jeep off road image.
Bob
I can't believe the moves that they managed to pull on the Insight! Looks like the green one smoked one of the inside tires after hitting the cans.
Drew/aling
Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
Thanks.
mailto:QSubaru@aol.com
..Mike
..Mike
Are Subarus cheaper in Canada as well?
BTW Kate, the Canadian Pfs are probably allowed into the US since it is not exactly a hot vehicle like the MDX or Odyssey. Heck, even the Odyssey is not that hot here, with readily available stock at most Honda dealerships (and at or below MSRP).
Drew/aling
Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
-mike
This link is only temporary - I may delete the files after a month to free up space.
Toyota's web site gives some details.
http://www.toyota.com.au/index_showroom.asp?forcenav=showroom
Cheers
Graham
Thank you
Steve
Craig
And when starting from a stop, is it bad to rev the engine before I let up on the clutch at all, or must I wait to feel the car engage? I stall more often the second way. And how important is downshifting other than on hills? I may have to resort to juice's trick and ply both my b/f and my dog with booze to get them back in the car with me.
Caroline
It takes a little practice, but you'll get the hang of it.
Here's a tip for starting from a dead stop on hills, and not wanting to roll backwards: pull the emergency brake handle up until you feel the clutch beginning to engage, then release the emergency brake. That will keep you from rolling backwards.
Another tip: try not to "ride" (partially disengaged) the clutch too much, that will wear it out quickly.
Bob
While up-shifting, I wait until the clutch is fully engaged with the next gear before stepping on the gas. If you rev suitably high enough before up-shifting, this will be pretty smooth. I know a lot of newbies shift too early, and it makes it difficult to get a smooth transition between gears, so make sure you're getting some healthy rpms before you shift. On the Subaru 2.5L engine in the Forester and Outback, for instance, I find that 3600-4200 rpm is the perfect point to shift into the next gear under normal driving.
Starting off, I usually give it gas as I feel the clutch start to grab. You can do this a little more easily by gently pumping the gas pedal as the clutch engages, if that helps at all. That way, you will develop a feel for how it all goes together. As the clutch pedal rises, you will feel-out the proper way to depress the gas pedal for smooth starts. Too little and the engine dies, too much and the clutch slips. There is a "just right" point somewhere in between.
Revving and then engaging the clutch (aka dumping the clutch) is bad in my opinion, and is likely to result in jerkier starts.
Be patient (and tell your passengers the same), and you will learn. Good luck!
Craig
It's OK to give a little gas in both scenarios you describe. More when starting, actually. Practice until it's so smooth that your passengers don't even notice you changed gears - that should be your goal, since it puts the least amount of wear on the clutch.
Never let the engine struggle. Usually if you're under 2000rpm you should shift.
Drew: Mudfest sounds fun, but why no trail pics?
The LX470's price has gotten a bit absurd. It's now $61,950 and that does NOT include a roof rack or even a cargo mat.
I actually saw that Insight chase on TV. Don't ask why, it was just on (the show stinks IMO).
The chase scene was funny, though I'm sure they rigged the handling for some of the stunts, and worse, they used bogus sound effects (a hair dryer, maybe?) instead of normal engine sounds.
B: congrats on the purchase. Love both the Soob and the Zook! Question: how did you manage to get to those photo spots, and how could it have been so empty?
-juice
I went there early in the morning that's why it was almost empty. And it's November, so its less crowded than if it were summer.
Properly done, each shift of a manual transmission is a dance, a small work of the art by the marvel that is human coordination. If you ever ride in a car piloted by a longtime user of manual shift, watch how they do it. They do it so naturally that they don't even think about it - and so will you, before you realize it! Congratulations and best of luck.
Cheers,
-wdb