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Comments
I'll share this - just got CR's 2001 Buying Guide, and once again Subaru aced their reliability tests.
Specifically, there are red dots galore on the Soobs. The Forester in particular does well, with the '99 models making absolute PERFECT scores! Red dots all the way! Not a single Honda could match those scores!
Guess from now on we'll have to say, "wow, that Honda was almost as reliable as a Forester!"
More highlights: from the Best Bets section, once again EVERY single Subaru model made the list. They're all recommended! Outbacks were grouped in with Legacys.
Finally, and again this year, here is a complete and exhaustive lists of the Soobs they think you should avoid (reliability risks):
-juice
Cheers
Graham
Best regards,
Caroline
Of course, Pathfinder board is mostly raving about this SUV. What do you guys think of new PF? I'm kind of scared of low mpg and premium fuel requirements for PF: our monthly gas bills are already in $400 area, and this is with economical Honda and Subaru.
Any biased or unbiased opinions of PF are welcome!
--Kate
-brian/subearu
To be honest, if I were thinking about the Pathfinder, I would opt for the Infiniti QX4. It's basicly the same as the Pathfinder (in a tux), but it comes with full-time 4WD capability, which the Pathfinder doesn't offer. I don't think it's that much more expensive than a Pathfinder. You'll probably get a better warranty too, as most upscale brands offer that perk too.
Bob
I have a '99 Pathfinder which is basically the same body, but the older engine (168hp I think). Anyway, we put a 3rd row seat in for small kids and my wife uses it as the school carpool kidmobile now. I can't speak for the new models, but I really like the Pathfinder. It's quiet, sturdy, and has a really good ride on the highway. The gas mileage does bite though. I wouldn't hesitate in recommending one; just watch out for the infamous "shimmy".
-Dan
Personally, I wouldn't get a Pf right now. The current design is was introduced in 1995 and only the exterior sheetmetal has been modified. All of the drawbacks of the platform are still there. Even the Xterra bested it in the IIHS offset crash test!:
http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/summary_midsuv.htm
http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/97002.htm
A new Pathfinder is supposed to be out for MY2003. Have you and your husband considered the L.L Bean H6 wagon? I know you don't particularly like the Acura MDX, but it would be one of my picks as far as Japanese mid-size SUVs go. I still have a high affinity for the M-class, of course :-)
Mike (Paisan), I'm a little disappointed with the Trooper's marginal offset crash test result (rated one below the Pf/QX4). Hopefully it will do better the next time around:
http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/00029.htm
I'm also rather concerned about the Trooper's major fuel leakage in the test. Have you received a recall notice yet?
http://www.hwysafety.org/news_releases/2000/pr111400.htm
Just my 2 cents Canadian!
Drew/aling
Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
-mike
Wait a second, isn't this a Subaru forum ? Sometimes in some half-awake state I find myself reading about Isuzu Troopers alot...
driving the OB H4 5-speed. That was a good
choice even in the light of the new H6.
Later
Cheers,
-wdb
Here are some nice rules-of-thumb:
* Always start in first gear
* Take 90 degree (i.e. sharp) turns in second gear
* Take highway exit ramps in 3rd gear
* Reserve 5th gear for high speed cruising (50+)
The 2nd and 3rd gear rules were very helpful when someone taught me, so I hope it helps you, too.
Kate: my old roommate from college has a Pathfinder, but not with the new engine. He usually just drives his Altima because the PF guzzles gas, and reserves the PF for trips and hauling. I joked that it was his $28k lawn ornament.
Still, it's a bit small for the price, and doesn't offer a whole lot more utility than your Forester. But drive it anyway, to see for yourself.
So the question is, what needs do you want to address?
-juice
a. What did you do with the factory 6-disc in-dash CD changer?
b. Why bother with tweeters in the rear doors?
Also, that's a nice sub-woofer but you sacrifice a chunk of cargo space. Of course everything's relative and considering the amount of cargo space you're accustomed to, you still have a lot. :-)
-Frank P.
Caroline- Graham is right about it being hard to describe the proper way to shift. Juice's rules work for many scenarios but you're in for a surprise if you shift down to 3rd on an exit ramp while still doing 65. You don't HAVE to down-shift at 2000 rpm either nor wait till you hit 50 to shift to 5th. I frequently up-shift at 2000 rpm and use 5th to cruise at 40 mph. However, you can only do either in certain situations where you won't put a strain on the engine. The bottom line is that driving a manual is very situation dependent. The best way to learn is to practice practice practice. That and ride with other manual trans drivers and observe how they hande different situations.
Best of luck!
-Frank P.
People don't like the name of something, so they don't buy it. I still don't understand it.
I'm with you on 2889. In Brazil, at least, minivans and wagons are seen as premium vehicles, with owners than can afford a little more and have toys to fill up that space.
Minivans are hot!
-juice
dealer.They were very kind to allow me
to just drive off with the car. But we've got
some history.
Thanks West Houston Subaru!
The new one has gone upscale, big time. Consumers love it though, and sales are up despite higher prices.
-juice
-The gas mileage stinks;
-The cost of insurance is very high as well.
If you want the full time 4WD, the PF LE has it, and it is a couple of thousand less than the QX4. Otherwise, it is a nice ride. Another consideration: Do you want manual or auto? I don't think the QX4 is available as a 5SPD.
Mark
PS Did you ever "Z" your Forester? I saw your post over there and was curious about the results. I did it and except where I put too much on in one spot it came out nice.
a) bad mpg
b) high price for what you get
c) still smallish back seat
d) not-so-great crash tests
e) high insurance
f) handling is good for SUV but not as good as we're used to in Honda and Subarus
Pros:
a) nice looks, exterior and interior wise
b) quality built and reliable
c) powerful engine
d) handling is better than most SUV of its size
We'll probably test-drive PF one of those weekends... and since my husband still is not sure what he really wants (I suspect - a Corvette, really) the actual purchase might be way off still.
-Colin
Essentially, the car is a dressed up version of our current H4 Outbacks.
Pros
- VDC does work. The day I drove, was pouring heavy rain. Nothing I threw at the car fazed it. And I drive pretty hard.
- Wood / leather steering wheel is sweet. I might even order one to replace my stock one.
- Noise level has dropped significantly (no more buzzing noise from the engine, like there is in the H4)
- The brakes have been improved. The spongy feeling in the 2000 OBs is now a more direct and solid feel. I really like this! The size of the brake discs has also been increased, so stopping distance will be better, though I didn't test it.
- Because of the additional power and quietness, the car feels much smoother than an H4.
- Automatic transmission was smoother than I expected it to be. No real abrupt shifts.
Cons
- The engine really does not make the car any faster at low rpms. Only until you start hitting past 4000 rpms will you even notice the H6.
- Even at higher speeds, the engine is no rocket. At least not until they mate it with a 5/6 speed.
- Because it's an auto, a 5speed OB is currently more fun to drive, and will easily keep up with the H6 until it hits the higher rpms.
- The climate control is crap. I far prefer something that doesn't require me to take my eyes off the road, especially when I'm travelling at 90 mph. The buttons on it are confusing and require you to read them.
- Same goes with the layout for the stereo system
- The whole ambience of the console layout is destroyed by the climate control and the stereo. They do not look like they fit. They look like they were afterthoughts (and they are).
- McIntosh stereo is good, but I hesitate to call it superb. Just about any aftermarket stereo setup with an amp an additional speakersr will be better. My own setup in my 5 speed OB (MD unit, tweeters, second amp, and 6x9s) does sound better than the McIntosh.
- The distinction of a H6 VDC Outback over a base Outback might as well be negligible. I'm really disappointed that they there absolutely no styling cues. In the dark when you can't read the small H6 or VDC labels, then it might as well be a base OB. Come on Subaru, at least you could have made the front end more agressive.
- The alloy wheels are designed differently, though the gold tinted wheels are tasteless... blech.
The bottom line, is that I don't think the VDC is worth $13,000 CDN over a base 5 speed Outback. Drop it by $5-7000 CDN, and then you got something sweet.
If however, you're a buyer that needs an automatic-transmission, then the VDC is definitely worth a look at.
Like juice said before, the real deal here is the LL Bean model (known simply as a H6 OB up here).
-- ash
ps. I'm not trading in my 5sp OB anytime soon
Seriously though, Kate you've got the pros and cons nailed down pretty well. The bigger engine is a definite improvement but with the added weight I doubt it will beat the Forester's 0-60 by much (anybody got the figures on the PF?). I've always had a soft spot for PFs but honestly, the design is rather dated. Kinda like the Cherokee.
Corvette? Too big. How bout a Z-3?
-Frank P.
Summing up:
1. Yes it is an improvement over the H-4, but not
a dramatic improvement.
2. Climate control not to everybody's liking.
3. Some "upgrade" features are of dubious value.
4. A whole lot more expensive, and not a whole lot
better.
5. Best suited as a luxury cruiser.
6. Needs a 5-speed manual transmission choice.
7. Tow rating needs major overhaul.
Bob
We're just call'n 'em as we see 'em. Hope our comments get back to the powers that be.
Bob
I hate, loath, detest, despise the test drives... you'll need to drag me out of my old the Loyale, kicking and screaming... it's my Evil Twin sister whose picture is now posted at every Bay area dealer with a sign "she's not buying, she just came to test-drive, don't let'er in".
:-)
Just for the fun of it, look at a WRX, a Miata, an MR2 or Celica...just testing them would be fun, so you'd have nothing to lose. Vettes are fun but cost a lot to own and operate, don't match their reliability, and have pretty dismal death rates.
Did you drive a Pathfinder at Edmunds Live? Was that what left you with such a positive impression?
I'm the same way with test drives. I have to start shopping for my 2005 Grand Forester now!
Ash: the nice thing is that all Legacys got upgraded brakes for 2001. Torque peaks at 4400rpm I think, so your impressions seems on target.
-juice
Seriously, we really don't know what we want for our next vehicle. Except for big or mid-size SUVs and roadsters, all other categories are "been there, done that". Drifting around a sea of choices: from Corvette to Sequoia, from Z3 to Land Cruiser.
My evil twin sister will have some fun with test drives this coming year... hee hee hee.
Yep, I liked how PF drives when tried it at Edmunds Live. But I clearly remember I liked Forester a lot more, and even Escape was nimbler.
b) I added the rear tweeters because the rear speakers are located so far down near your foot that you couldn't hear the high/mid-high frequencies if you're sitting in the back. Now with the rear tweeters, the sound image/quality in the rear matches the front.
The subwoofer is removable if I need the full cargo space - which is not very often.
Just get a good tarp. I use one and haul mulch, lumber, bulk trash, etc. without breaking a sweat. Even clothes washers and organs fit inside, hatch closed and all!
Given the fairly wide price range, a Boxster S would be nice...
-juice
PS Road trips for Thanksgiving, folks? Sandy will transport us to Conneticut once again, for another 6 hour road trip. Anyone else?
Got the guide to the desert trails. Any guides for really good, money-giving (not eating) slot machines?
Declaration to Former Colony from the UK
Isn't British spelling "gouvern" instead of "govern"?
Bob
Have you or your husband considered the ML320? It's about as quick as the Pf, has far superior cargo (3 cu.ft more than the Acura MDX despite being shorter and narrower!!) and passenger carrying capacity. You know all about the passive and active safety features already from my months of rambling and similarities to the VDC wagon. Take it for a test drive, and you may be surprised :-)
Be aware of the heavier steering feel and the slightly longish travel drive-by-wire accelerator though. There may be a few MY2K models left over that can be had for a fantastic deal right now. Besides, I think it would be a perfect garage mate next to the two Subies.
Drew/aling
Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
As for ML, I should say looks of it killed it for us. Otherwise, it's a fine SUV, and just an idea of owning the Benz is very appealing.
-mike
No comments
It's funny that you find the looks of the ML320 to be a deal killer. My sweetie thinks they're ugly, I think they're interesting looking. She's the one who would buy a vehicle like that, and so, like you, the looks are a definite no-sale. Even so you should go drive one, if for no other reason than to see what an SUV built by MB in Alabama is like.
I'll reiterate that you should try an RS Impreza; the one I drove was a total hoot.
Cheers,
-wdb
-mike
As for the vehicle, I'd try to narrow the field down a bit, at least to a specific type of vehicle.
Or don't. Just keep having fun driving 'em!
-juice
AZTEK!!
As for 3rd row seating, it's a tough call. Reality is, we both drive alone 85-90% of the time, so anything big will be probably excessive. Then again, sometimes it's so nice to have a family trip w/o being cramped...
Check out the new Sequoia. That thing's a monster, and the price looks very competitive at $32-36k.
It won't be much fun to pilot, but it would make a good workhorse. Then again, so would any minivan!
Consider keeping 3 vehicles if you can afford to. It makes for a versatile fleet.
-juice
Funny list of failed SUV names on www.top5.com today. Like: Cadillac FatBastardmobile, Buick Bigassagon, GMC My Little Guzzler, Ford Recallero...
re the Forester - noticed a slight desgradation in mpg with vehicle loaded with extra 3-400 pounds of stuff at highway speeds. However, the car cruises with no effort at 85-90, so I can't complain too much.
jg
-juice
Ross
Aztecs are so ugly that they'd make a train take a dirt road!
(With apologies to Johnny Carson's monologue writers)
Cheers!
Paul
Dave B