Subaru Crew - Meet The Members

1…5253545557

Comments

  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Interesting link. The 900 lbs. for the Forester is about average for small SUVs. It also, not suprisingly, is about what a compact sedan can hold.
  • hammersleyhammersley Member Posts: 684
    The link didn't work....I'll try it again from home later today.

    Cheers!
    Paul
  • snopeoplsnopeopl Member Posts: 9
    Thanks for Darlene's web address.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    This is an excellent point. I have long thought that many SUVs have lousy payload capability, and not just the small ones. The huge Ford Excursion has a payload that is actually "less" than a Ford Windstar! I find that amazing. In fact, the Excursion's closest competitor, the Chevy 2500 Suburban can carry at least 1000 lbs. "more" than the Excursion.

    Personally, I feel most SUVs should be able to handle around 1500 lbs. Most don't come anywhere that.

    Bob
  • alingaling Member Posts: 598
    I agree that the SUV should at least be able to handle 5 people and their luggage. 1500 lbs is pretty high, and I don't think that mid-sized SUVs need that high of a payload; Anything 1100 lbs and more for a midsize SUV is adequate, IMHO. For example, my M-class has a max. payload of 1340 lbs, which is only 10lbs less than the much larger Lincoln Navigator. This is more than enough to accomodate 5 passengers + luggage.

    I might also add that your Explorer has a pretty lousy payload. It takes only 5 average sized people without any cargo to exceed the max payload limit. But I guess this is not an issue for you if you only use it for 4 or the occasional 5th person, depending on their weight, of course. Consumer Reports has always mentioned the QX4's terrible max. payload (only 795lbs! - basically 5 people + a suitcase)

    I wonder how much that dryer that juice stuffed in to his Forester weighed? ;-)

    Drew/aling
    Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
  • alingaling Member Posts: 598
    Tonight on TLC at 11pm Pacific (not sure if it's also at 11pm or 8 pm EST). I highly recommend watching it. The segment on the modified Toyota Land Cruisers was quite entertaining.
  • alingaling Member Posts: 598
    Unfortunately, the picture seems to have been removed from the server. Sorry!
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The Explorer's payload is typical - lousy.

    I think that perhaps 1500 pounds is too general a statement. Small SUVs should handle around 1100 pounds, mid-size SUVs around 1400 pounds, full-size SUV's around 1800 pounds, and super-size SUVs over 2500 pounds.

    I believe that Ford is going to start putting payload ratings of each of their SUVs and trucks on the door jams for 2002. I think this is a terrific idea, and long overdue. All SUVs and trucks (and cars too!) should be "required" to do so.

    Bob
  • alingaling Member Posts: 598
    Agreed...small SUVs are typically based on existing car platforms though, as you know. This is probably why the payloads are not really more than what the car platforms they're based on can handle (Ken mentioned this earlier). Re-engineering the platform to handle more load will probably be expensive.

    The M-class does have a red, 4 inch long warning label below to the tailgate latch with the max. payload. The usual warnings + the figures are also repeated in more detail in the owner's manual. Frankly, I've never paid much attention to the former (even though I was aware of the max. payload) until it was shown on 20/20 last night.

    Ford will apparently start placing warning labels on the door jams on their SUVs starting in 2002 (no mention of pickup trucks or vans/minivans). It's too bad they had to be prompted by 20/20 though. At least they're making the effort...probably in an attempt to show that they're concerned about safety with the recent Explorer/Firestone issue.

    Drew/aling
    Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I had my '97 Rode packed to the gills with a 5000lb car trailer, and the insides filled with books and crap from school, well over the payload, and it still ran and handled like a champ @ 75mph on the highway.

    In my '00 Trooper I've had 5 adults (paisan sized none the less) and a 3500lb boat trailer as well as tons of gear (filled the whole back area) and it all handled well @ 75mph on the highway as well.

    I've also seen Exploders where the rear sags way down as soon as you put anything in it. So I'm not sure the payloads are that great on em. Also don't forget the payloads are gonna be a lot less on the SUV version of a pickup platform cause all that metal, insulation, and glass in the rear section take from the GVWR.

    -mike
  • alingaling Member Posts: 598
    Your Rodeo may have performed like a champ as far as you could tell, but since the tire specifications are only designed to handle GVWR, you were overloading the tires; And we all know what overloading tires can do.

    When you are over the max. payload and have to execute emergency maneuvers, the handling of the vehicle is severely compromised. This is exacerbated with a trailer in tow.

    20/20 showed footage of the Explorer at the track with one person vs. people + luggage. C.R. also weighed a Rodeo packed with 5 college kids (probably not paisan-sized ;-) ;-)) + their bags and the Rodeo was over the max. payload by 50 lbs. Not too impressive. In fact, the previous generation Rodeo only has a payload of 820lbs. Less than the Forester by 80lbs! It may appear that I'm bashing the vehicle, but I'm not. Really! ;-)

    Drew/aling
    Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    120,000 miles in 3 years on the vehicle, no repairs (never went to dealer ever) just regular oil changes. 3 sets of pad, 1 set of tires.

    I did a lot of moving and towing with that truck, and lots of high speed manuvers, never had a problem with it, so I guess I was just overall lucky with it. Possibly because the day i picked it up @ the dealer a bird marred the perfectly clean C-pillar. Must have been a good luck sign.

    In college we actually put 12 paisan's piled into the rodeo, but that is a different story...:)

    -mike
  • alingaling Member Posts: 598
    12!? Hehe...I once had 6 other people in the 300TE 4-matic wagon that I was driving in college, but that's another story too :-) The load leveling rear suspension worked well.

    Wow, 120K miles in 3 years! I guess you don't lease your vehicles, huh. The first 3 years are supposed to be the most trouble-free of the vehicle's lifespan. I don't think you were especially lucky. Just that the Isuzu engineers were probably conservative and built in a good margin of error into the design.

    Best of luck!
    Drew/aling
    Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
  • al2al2 Member Posts: 73
    I don't want to beat insurance rates to death, but my remark about our '85 Camry versus our '01 Forester came from the fact that many people thought Forester insurance was high and we didn't know what to expect.

    Paisan said that because Camry's are high on the most stolen list, we must be paying more for the Subaru. Now there's a leap!

    My wife insured her '85 Camry in Nov. 2000 for approx, $1000 Cdn. She insured her 2001 Forester S about 2 weeks later for approx. $1000 Cdn. Same coverage, different cars.

    Accords and Camry's may be stolen frequently, but they are also the biggest sellers in North America, so there are more of them out there to be stolen. Kids may generally avoid such conservative cars for joyriding thefts, but why steal a Forester when there are many splashier "muscle" SUVs to rip off. Chop shops may sell lots of Accord/Camry hot parts because of wide demand, but Subaru parts are not worth the risk for such a narrow 'market'.

    Theft, therefor, is only one component of insurance rate tables and probably not the biggest. If my wife had totaled her Camry the insurance company would have sent a cheque for a max of $2000 - $3000. If she totaled the Forester, their payout would be $30,000 Cdn.

    In the States insurers force body shops to fix vehicles with tinny after-market doors, fenders, hoods, etc. Not so in Canada. Also, litigation is horrendous in fees and judgments; not so in Canada.

    So if Paisan believes that acturial tables would equalize an old Camry and a new Forester on the basis of theft, it simply doesn't wash. I believe the provincial insurer is saying the Forester is in a good risk rate group because of low claims on fire, theft and body damage costs. If he feels that New York is simply a worst-case scenario due to theft, he better double lock his car if he visits Vancouver.

    After getting all that off my chest, my original point was simply to say that if you are quoted high on a Forester compared to whatever else you've been driving, check around. Our experience was much the opposite.

    Cheers, Al
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    It will be interesting to see how Ford handles the payload sticker.

    For example: would the payload sticker on a bare-bones F-150 pickup be the same as the payload sticker on a fully loaded F-150 pickup - with both trucks having the same GVW? Obviously the fully loaded truck will be heavier, and thus have a lower payload rating. Will the payload stickers reflect how each individual truck is equipped, in order to get an accurate payload rating?

    I hope so, but I kind of doubt that Ford will go to that kind of trouble.

    Bob
  • texsubarutexsubaru Member Posts: 242
    I suspect the fact that there are a lot of Camry and Accords out there makes them a more profitable theft target because that means there's a bigger potential demand for the the parts you can strip off the stolen ones.
  • shndvnshndvn Member Posts: 22
    The info regarding potholes (etc) from Dave C,
    Ken, and Graham is much appreciated! (I didn't
    realize the city would pay for damages.) That
    is the worst pothole I've ever seen so definitely
    avoid it. I looked in the wheel wells and I can
    see the shocks (?) and something at the top -
    a dampening device I suppose (as you can tell,
    I'm no mechanic ;). Anyway, it didn't look like
    there was any visible damage but, as mentioned,
    irregularities in the road seem to sound louder
    now.

    As for the car leaning to one side, today I took
    everything (and everyone) out and checked the
    tire PSI's. It visibly leans to one side (the
    opposite side from the pothole incident) but
    I have nothing to measure how much. The thing
    is, I don't know how long it was this way
    before I noticed.

    Now for a little story: I was leaving the
    highway the other day and took one of those
    off-ramps that goes around 270 degrees (or
    whatever). There was a car behind me following
    real close as I left the highway and he seemed
    to stay with me as I sped up a bit. Quickly
    deciding that this was a good chance to test
    the AWD auto tranny, I floored the accelerator
    and held on tight! I zoomed around the curve
    leaving the (sports) car way behind. In fact,
    I came around at the top so fast that a jeep
    had to slam on his breaks so he could slip in
    behind me and take the other side of the ramp
    onto the highway. :)

    Thanks again for the previous replies.
  • texsubarutexsubaru Member Posts: 242
    Once again getting in on a discussion after it's over, but I'd definitely argue in favor of an upscale GT model with the H6. (Not that I can afford an upscale anything, but nonetheless...)
    The Impreza RS and WRX might be better peforming cars under a lot of conditions, but their styling certainly doesn't say "classy" or "upscale" sports coupe/sedan to me. A small part of it is the size of the Imprezas; I fear they look (deceptively, one might argue) a bit more like econoboxes rather than BMW competitors. And I think at least some of the people who buy a BMW sports sedan partially justify the car's expense by arguing that the car is a practical 5-adult-hauler (obviously, I'm showing a bias here for sports sedans over coupes). And there's the rather adolescent-looking detailing slapped on the sportier Imprezas: the somewhat pointless spoiler and the utterly pointless fake hood scoop (oh, on the turbo WRX, though, is the hood scoop actually functional?).
    "Adolescent" might not be quite the right word, since even when I was a teen in the '70s, I always considered Camaros really cool looking, but thought the Firebird Trans Am just looked outright tacky.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Al: congrats. To your wife, that is. ;)

    I'll have to call Darlene or send her a get well card. She must have burned out!

    SVX - why bring it back? Baby boomers are becoming empty nesters. I think the SVX just had bad market timing. Make it basically a VDC coupe, the name isn't of much consequence.

    Those rumors may have been augmented by wishful thinking from Autoweek, who reported on the possibility of a future SVX on a WRX coupe platform. That could be fun, but seems wrong for the GT audience (read: mature, affluent).

    Subwoofer? Under the passenger seat on Legacy, driver seat on Forester/Impreza'.

    Not enough room here to comment on Big 3, DCX, and the new cupholders on the minivans.

    Forester S Turbo Prodrive edition? This is exactly what the US needs. Sign up with Rallispec, Cobb Tuning, somebody! Just do it!

    Payload? We don't need no stinkin' payload stickers... ;)

    I'm sure I've been way over, but always driven carefully. The washer was actually pretty light. The organ I hauled weighed a ton, though. At least my back thinks so!

    -juice
  • armac13armac13 Member Posts: 1,129
    in all fairness, the insurance difference is not really a US-Canada difference as much as a British Columbia difference. It seems to be one case in which a monopoly actually benefits the consumer. My $.031 worth (Cn).

    Ross
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    My buddy just got a trooper, his insurance rate increased by $300/yr from a '95 T-bird (book value @ $5K) v. $32K trooper. When he asked why it only went up $300, he said because the T-bird is more likely to be stolen for parts than the trooper. I've heard the same from insurance companies about the Honda Accord and Toyota Camary.

    I don't know how the canadian law is on replacement parts, but in NYS you have OEM parts replaced on your cars, not substituted parts.

    I'll remember to double lock my Trooper when I go through Vancouver in 2004 for the Alcan Ralley! :) Although with a $50 deductible on my car I'm not too worried that is why I have insurance in the first place.

    -mike
  • alingaling Member Posts: 598
    I'm lost...
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Drew- Haven't you figured it out yet? You're in the Trooper forum! ;-)
  • francophilefrancophile Member Posts: 667
    If Ford ups the payload capacity of the Explorer to a more respectable number, the vehicle will ride like a *gasp* truck!

    Cheers,
    -wdb
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Not for the 2002 4-door. It gets a very sophisticated IRS and a new IFS. It should ride light-years better than the old one, even if they increase the payload capacity.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    We've already got tire pressure, GVW, and other useful info on the door jam. I think the payload capacity should also be part of that info.

    Bob
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    If I ever do exceed the payload capacity, I'd rather do it in a Forester vs any other SUV with its much higher center of gravity, which will just exacerbate handling problems. Like the Trooper for instance. :(o)

    -Frank P.
  • al2al2 Member Posts: 73
    Mike, glad to hear you're coming to Vancouver even if it is 3-4 years away. It is not sin city, in fact a really safe place for people, just a lot of car thieves preying on those too lazy or stupid to lock and put a steering clamp on their vehicle (double locking).

    If we're both still following this forum in 2004, look me up and I'll buy you a beer--Molson Canadian, eh! We can argue insurance costs.

    Cheers, Al
  • alingaling Member Posts: 598
    0-60mph runs averaged 8.3 seconds - pull from mid range (3200 rpms) to red line was significantly stronger than the H4. They, and AMI, thought that the primary advantage of the engine was not only power but smoothness over the 4-cyl engine.

    Average fuel economy in mix city/highway was 22 mpg, or 1 mpg less than their last H4 test wagon.

    Strangely, no braking tests were shown. Emergency lane change and slalom tests were shown though, and both were good, especially the former.

    In the slalom, there was a fair, but not excessive amount of body roll. MotorWeek noted that the extra weight of the engine produced slightly more understeer in mid corner (in the slalom) than the H4 wagon. VDC was not activated until the wagon was pushed harder. It intervened smoothly and unobtrusively to guide the vehicle back into line. I guess this means that the permanent AWD system is providing more than sufficient amounts of stability and traction for most conditions. I think that a H6 GT wagon would really do well with its sportier setup.

    MotorWeek ended off by saying that the H6 wagon is a nice improvement, but not an in-expensive one. They hope that Subaru will start offering the "impressive 6-cyl engine" in other more reasonably priced models soon (don't we all). I hope that Patti is making note of this ;-)

    Drew/aling
    Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
  • originalbitmanoriginalbitman Member Posts: 920
    I'm getting tired of looking at the OE casette/receiver sitting on my workbench. I pulled it from my GT wagon when I swapped it for the Blaupunkt CD. It is virtually brand new and probably worthless yet I hate to through it away. Any ideas?

    bit
  • bg18947bg18947 Member Posts: 184
    Funny you remember the 98 Regency. My dad ordered a 1974 Custom Cruiser and had to cancel it because he forgot to measure the garage. Bumper against wall, and the sucker would have still stuck out about 3 inches. We changed the order to the 74 Vista Cruiser which was about 8.5 inches shorter. We had put headers, a Holley carb, Edelbrock manifold, and dual exhaust. The wagon was stolen in Brooklyn in 83. My dad still has his 1983 Delta 88 Royal Brougham which replaced the wagon. The 88 was stolen twice but found each time, again in Brooklyn. It was the last big Olds.

    I would still like to get a 1975 Buick Electra 225 Sedan if any are still around. They had nice body designs.
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I converted an orphaned Honda receiver into a stereo for my office at work, just by digging up a 12V DC power supply (from Radio Shack) and making boxes for some 4 ohm car speakers (also Honda orphans). Sounds pretty damn good, and was a fun little project. Anyone looking for a basic stereo for their office/garage/workshop ought to try this out!

    Craig
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    Welcome to the payloads forum! Loads of what, I must wonder..... ;)

    We've loaded our SUV to the gills with god knows how much weight on several occasions. Got 120,000 miles on it, too. And it is.....OmiGod....a FORD!!

    Still miss my '86 4Runner, though. Not as comfy as the ford, but a whole lotta truck that never ever let me down. I actually wanted to keep it and ditch the Ford for the Soob but Kirst wasn't quite ready to part with her truck.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Bob: isn't payload just the gross vehicle weight rating minus the vehicle's weight? It's not rocket science, but I'm sure some people have no idea.

    8.3s and 22mpg sounds pretty darn good. Can you think of another AWD that matches that? OK, an RS, but any non-Subaru?

    I imagine that engine wasn't as green, and was able to produce better numbers once broken in. Maybe it's so smooth it just doesn't feel as fast as it is.

    Drew: I think we get the shows a week or two later than you, and ironically we're in MD, where Motorweek is produced! I'll keep my eyes peeled.

    bit: offer it for sale on i club, maybe? Perhaps an older Soob owner would be interested.

    Speaking of odd parts, I have a front dome light for a 99 and earlier Legacy. Long story, but if anyone is interested, let me know.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Someone reported an ML rollover in the Rollover II topic under SUVs. You may want to read about it.

    They said a donut was mounted. I'm surprised the ML uses a donut. Is that right?

    -juice
  • alingaling Member Posts: 598
    Thanks for the heads-up. As I explained in the rollover topic, there is not enough room between the rear diffy and the rear bumper for a full size spare. This is, because of the unusually long wheelbase of 111.0 inches. In comparison, the Acura MDX's wheelbase is only 106+ inches, despite being about 5 inches longer than the ML. Only the BMW X5 has a comparable (identical, in fact) wheelbase to the ML.

    The situation that induced the rollover was undoubtedly something that ESP could have prevented. The lady was probably going too fast for the conditions, and the Mickey Mouse spare just couldn't provide enough grip due to the reduced contact patch and different tread. Thankfully she was okay.

    I tape MotorWeek nearly every weekend (Sunday at 7am, usually a couple of hours before I get up on the weekends ;-)) off the Detroit PBS station - WTVS, I think. The nice thing about it is that not only is it 2-3 weeks ahead of the Speedvision broadcast, but you get to see certain (short) segments that are not shown on Speedvision - this week's was on ESP - and the big plus is that there are no commercials. It's just about 23-25 consecutive minutes of MotorWeek!

    Drew/aling
    Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    How I found it: Take Undereground to High Street Kensington station, come above ground through a pedestrain mall, hang a left out the entrance and your first left after that (you'll see an Aroma coffee shop on the left and a lot of residential stuff). Walk through the residences about 1/3 mile until you see a pub on the right coner. Turn right there then walk about 100 yards and Radley Mews is on your left. It's a short alley and Ace is at the end of it.

    Sorry my directions and memory of names isn't better - if I get a chance to go online and look at a London street map I'll come back and fill in the blanks.

    Ed
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The following is their web site. For some reason it's not working right now, although I've accessed it a number times before. It's listed in the "Sube-Directory" web site.

    I too took the underground. I don't remember which stop. It might have been High street? I did get lost finding it though.

    I believe the owner's first name is Amol, or something like that.

    Bob

    http://www.acekensington.co.uk/prodrive.htm
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Yes, if you know the empty weight of the vehicle, it's easy to figure out.

    I'm just saying if that information is on the door jam, like tire preassure, etc.; it just makes it easier/better for everyone.

    Most people won't take the time or effort to figure that out - let alone even think about what the payload of a vehicle is. If it's listed, they may(?) at least think about it, and act accordingly.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    All those dealer installed options will eat up weight off the payload... then what will our poor folks do? There has to be a point at which a line is drawn and people just have to take responsibility for what they are doing. I mean should we install a scale in the vehicle and have an idiot light if the vehicle is loaded over capacity? And while we are at it maybe we should have electronic governors that limit a vehicle to the posted speed limit?

    -mike :)
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    My fault for rushing to post without checking.

    Ed
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Great idea Mike! :)

    Bob
  • miksmimiksmi Member Posts: 1,246
    You're welcome (<2979</A>>).

    Everyone else: PLEASE STOP POSTING! (yes I'm SHOUTING) This topic is #3 in the top 10!

    ;)

    ..Mike

    ..Mike

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Drew: our Motorweek is also commercial free! :)

    paisan: I hear you. With all my accessories, I have about 3 ounces left in payload for luggage...

    -juice
  • texsubarutexsubaru Member Posts: 242
    The episode with the review of the H6 models also aired Sunday in Austin. Yeah, they seemed to like nearly everything about the VDC and LL Bean (not that, I've noted, the generally upbeat "Motorweek" is ever terribly heavy on criticism) except for the price tags. The MSRP seems to be the one thing that brings most reviewers up short on those models.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Graham. I think that will be the first of many awards this vehicle will win, worldwide.

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I heard a snippet on the news this morning that Goodyear is being investigated for about 10 deaths on Dodge Ram's with bad tires. Not sure of the details...

    -mike
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Here's the corrected URL for Ace Kensington in London.

    Bob

    http://www.acekensington.co.uk
  • alingaling Member Posts: 598
    Mike, I heard that it was 15 deaths on CNN's early edition. The probe apparently hasn't started yet, but may as soon as today.

    Drew/aling
    Townhall Community Leader/Vans Conference
  • alingaling Member Posts: 598
    The Outback was chosen as one of the Car Connection's Editor's top choices for motoring around in the winter. Check it out here.

    The Car Connection's main page also has links to sections regarding four wheel drive systems + winter driving tips.

    Enjoy!
This discussion has been closed.

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles

Your Privacy

By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our Visitor Agreement.