Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

texases · January 2019

Thanks for the comedy break...oh, they're serious???

If that's "needing only light restoration", I guess this would be "heavy":

fintail · January 2019

Are you saying you can't get there from here?

Mr_Shiftright · January 2019

Scrap iron. With unibody cars like this, you reach a certain point of no return. Looks like ten different cars laced together with zip ties.

qbrozen · January 2019

holy hell. You'd be better off building one from scratch.

fintail · January 2019

Oh yeah they want 30 grand for that.

explorerx4 · January 2019

According to seller desirable 67 Camaro, not mentioned in the ad but has the ultra rare external insulation package, too.
https://providence.craigslist.org/cto/d/chepachet-1967-camaro-rs-ss-convertible/6772464337.html

stickguy · January 2019

gonna cost a lot to restore that one, Without the original engine even riskier.

and holy moley, those cocktail shakers are expensive, at least based on the first site that popped up. $500-$1000 a piece (and it has 4 of them). No wonder he points out that they are included.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2019

Let's do the math. A really nice one of these will be about $40K (not Pebble Beach, but NICE!). He's asking $15K, which leaves us $25K to do a full restoration on a car without a title.

No, I don't think so. If it were a big block, that's worth another $20K once done. It's not like you can't find these cars.

xwesx · January 2019

Not a bad car; looks well-insulated!

bhill2 · January 2019

Mr_Shiftright said:
I think they basically stock junk that owners simply couldn't sell to anybody and chose to dump it on the dealer for cheap. Their inventory can be "interesting" but most of it is just too far gone. BHCC is basically a Museum of Neglect.

I always wondered about that when I saw their numerous ads in Hemmings Motor News. Based on the descriptions I got the impression that Beverly Hills Car Club was an aka for Beverly Hills House of Fright Pigs.

benjaminh · January 2019

This 1919 air cooled Franklin with aluminum body has been in this guy's family since new. Takes a lot to keep it going—including some parts of the engine that need to be manually oiled every hundred miles or so—but it's still driven around.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgUhwpf7zik

fintail · January 2019

Took the old dear out today, a little earlier than usual on a cold morning. Started up and ran fine, turned a few heads (including a hot model late run Challenger that let me into traffic, I am certain to look at the car) only issue might be a heater level seemed a bit stiff, but that happens with age. Didn't notice any new blowby.

On a fun note, I got to test out the trunk for the first time in awhile:

As I seem to be firmly in midlife crisis mode, I've got back into hockey (or what passes for it at this age) after a 20 year hiatus, and am reliving my youth - this time with more aches and pains. Back in the day, I could cram 4 gear bags into the trunk, with sticks in the car. The trunk has accumulated a thick layer of stuff over the years - a few car covers, many spare parts, some tools, etc. The huge hockey bag fits, spread out wider as there's ton of stuff under it. I bet I could still fit 4 normal bags in there.

Sitting in the garage, I think the only one of the slumbering covered cars that is regularly driven:

berri · January 2019

Glad you explained the loaded trunk. Might have though a street person or worse

fintail · January 2019

I suppose I should clean it out every 20 years or so. It's funny, for as clean as I keep the exterior and interior, the trunk is a different world. At least most of what it in it is very light, doesn't impact ride height.

berri · January 2019

It's your basement

explorerx4 · January 2019

The narrator guy seems to like Fords and this episode is about some Barn Find Bronco's in Alaska.
He doesn't mind using the power his 60's fastback Mustang has.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/classic-cars/this-alaskan-collector-keeps-a-hidden-stash-of-original-ford-broncos/ar-BBSb3qu?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=DELLDHP

xwesx · January 2019

explorerx4 said:
The narrator guy seems to like Fords and this episode is about some Barn Find Bronco's in Alaska.
He doesn't mind using the power his 60's fastback Mustang has.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/classic-cars/this-alaskan-collector-keeps-a-hidden-stash-of-original-ford-broncos/ar-BBSb3qu?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=DELLDHP

"Because Alaskan roads don't use salt to dissipate ice, cars don't rust as badly there as they do in some other places. "

False!

However, use on roads in the Delta Junction area is probably rather infrequent.

I like the video, however. The GT350 is cool, plus the shots of the host driving on the Richardson out by Eielson AFB and in the Salcha area are pretty cool.

The 4-door mod to the FJ (at the very end) is hilarious. So typical. That guy is so typical Delta-Junction that I had to chuckle while watching it.

He should come visit me next time!

Mr_Shiftright · January 2019

Oh, yeah, penalty flag on THAT assertion!

explorerx4 · January 2019

Last video I watched with that guy, he was I think in Virginia.
He's not much for local knowledge.
Plus, it's to 2 cars talking, facts are more like guidelines.

explorerx4 · January 2019

Barn find in France, nothing in great shape. Variety is surprising. 3 minute video.

https://youtu.be/2BXMwZ10pmA

Mr_Shiftright · January 2019

Certainly a small handful worth saving but most look like parts cars, at best.

Looks a lot like the 80-car collection I appraised last summer--eerily similar actually. But you know, when you add up 75 parts cars of some collectibility, there's still value there. Problem is, such things are not easy to dispose of in that condition.

explorerx4 · January 2019

Was there also a sound track while you were looking at the cars?

Mr_Shiftright · January 2019

Yes---Mozart's Requiem. It was a lovely service. I had a chance to grieve.

fintail · January 2019

Surprising amount of American iron in that French barn.

explorerx4 · January 2019

@mr_shiftright,
When you go to appraise a vehicle or vehicles, do you have any idea about what you are going to look at condition wise before you get there?

Mr_Shiftright · January 2019

No, I have no, or very little idea, except as a general, vague description, e.g. "My grandfather passed away and we inherited 80 cars he has on his property--there's an old Jag, some model Ts I think. Most of them don't run. There are a few I don't know what they are".

So what I do is view the cars before I create a bid for the work. I try to estimate (based on years of experience) how many hours all this is going to take me, the working conditions (rats, mean dogs, filth, exposure to weather, danger to myself, inaccessibility of the cars, etc.) then come up with a reasonable per hour wage, and multiply. You don't get rich doing this. People simply will not pay an appraiser what they pay a lawyer or even a plumber.

You'd be surprised how nasty the surroundings can be around a stash of old cars. Aside from rodents, you often have to fight mildew, or cars with rusted doors and broken glass. I have a hazmat-type overall, a respirator, thick gloves and portable lighting. Of course, it's not always that grim an environment. Sometimes it's fun--old warehouse, old barn, or even a magnificent heated garage filled with treasures. I sometimes get calls for pristine, carefully garaged cars of significant value---and of course those are a pleasure to do--even though the rarer the car, the more difficult the research.

There are lots of competitors for the appraisal biz, and also vultures circling around trying to snatch cars before they are appraised. Sometimes family squabbles, too. Those are fun, because occasionally you'll see siblings fighting over cars that aren't really worth very much, while neglecting the ones that have real value. Mostly, family members over-value the cars, but now and then you find an enlightened Being who knows exactly what they do, and do not, have.

There are also a fair number of incompetent appraisers trying to win the appraisal job----and well, good luck to the Estate who hires one of them. I've seen some appraisal reports that just SCREAM to the IRS "Here! I"m over here!". I don't work cheap just to get a job. Bad idea.

The best jobs involve a professional estate attorney or fiduciary. They are no-nonsense people, and they appreciate professional work. They often can sober up the family and tell them what liabilities are at stake.

fintail · January 2019

@bhill2 - did you say you were thinking about a W116? There's a quite nice one on BaT right now - with these, you want an early car or a late car, this is very early, with the unusual column shift.

bhill2 · January 2019

fintail said:
@bhill2 - did you say you were thinking about a W116? There's a quite nice one on BaT right now - with these, you want an early car or a late car, this is very early, with the unusual column shift.

OK, I screwed up, specifically by believing someone who told me it wasn’t a W126. I want something in the same series as my late lamented ‘85 380SE.

tjc78 · January 2019

Not my choice of color but that 73 is a clean car.

fintail · January 2019

That makes more sense. You'll have an easier time finding a nice W126 as well, as they are newer and generally more loved. It's hard to find a nice W116, and at the same time, I am surprised the BaT car has such strong bids, even for that site.

Do you want a 380SE specifically? I sometimes have an eye out for such cars in the area.

bhill2 said:

OK, I screwed up, specifically by believing someone who told me it wasn’t a W126. I want something in the same series as my late lamented ‘85 380SE.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2019

Yes, I think a W126 is a much better choice. Benz was still finding its way with American driving conditions and preferences in the early 70s. While they were very well built cars, they had some deficiencies that needed to be corrected---AC was poor, transmission shifting was too rough for American drivers, and reliability was suspect. Also many Americans didn't like to rev up their car's engines, which is pretty much how the W116 needs to be driven. Leisurely, quiet driving at 75 mph? Not in a W116. They were geared for performance, not loafing.

tjc78 · January 2019

I could handle that. I think every car should red line at least once per drive.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2019

Me too, but the W116 is a fussy car. They sure do feel solid and well-built, though. I think the ideal 70s Benz would be a W115, 220 gas with a manual transmission.

fintail · January 2019

I think the V8 in that specific car might have been the first real attempt by MB to cater to American driving tastes, but the I6 cars (which are many 116s - all of the 280 badged cars, and most 108s) certainly weren't tuned to drivers on this continent. The fun part of the 450 badged cars is you'll be lucky to hit 15 mpg ever in any kind of driving, and you'll likely never beat that number. They are kind of thirsty.

tjc78 · January 2019

I'm not sure if it was a 116 or 126 but a buddy had a late 70s large Mercedes in 1999 or so. He and any of us that drove it beat the snot out of it and it just wouldn't die

fintail · January 2019

First MY of W126 cars as official imports to NA was 1981, but some grey market cars can be 1980.

tjc78 · January 2019

It was a 116 then, since we always said it was older than us which would make it 77 or older.

fintail · January 2019

Sturdy cars, but not of huge value, and they can have quirks - I think AC and cruise control issues are most common.

Mr_Shiftright · January 2019

Yep, that and neck-breaking transmission shifts. Takes some getting used to. Also the usual German bio-degradable electronics.

fintail · January 2019

And cars with blue interiors also seem much more prone to dash cracks than other colors, a weird MB thing that seems to have lived for several years.

explorerx4 · January 2019

Lots of great beater stories in the comments section of this one.
https://www.hemmings.com/blog/2019/01/18/the-plotkins-tell-the-tale-of-the-studebaker-with-no-brakes/#comments-block

bhill2 · January 2019

fintail said:
That makes more sense. You'll have an easier time finding a nice W126 as well, as they are newer and generally more loved. It's hard to find a nice W116, and at the same time, I am surprised the BaT car has such strong bids, even for that site.

Do you want a 380SE specifically? I sometimes have an eye out for such cars in the area.

bhill2 said:

OK, I screwed up, specifically by believing someone who told me it wasn’t a W126. I want something in the same series as my late lamented ‘85 380SE.

I'm not married to a 380SE. A 420SEL, for instance, would likely made me very happy. I would also consider a 300SE. I think it had about as much power as the 380SE and I consider unbent sixes to be an ideal form . I have to mention, however, that there are a LOT of things we have to take care of before my attention can focus on trying to recreate the experience of driving that great old Mercedes. But I'm working on it.

fintail · January 2019

From my anecdotal observations, the I6 cars are now the most common, then the 1986+ V8 cars. When the time comes, you should be able to find a good one. There was a really nice looking 1984 500SEL for sale in Bend awhile back, a 30K mile car that looked great in pics, and the price was a not too insane 15K. Something like that might serve you well. As you know, as these cars age, one that has been garaged with good cosmetics can be more important than minor mechanical renovations - it is probably impossible to do a credible interior restoration on one at a reasonable price, and good paint isn't cheap either.

bhill2 said:

I'm not married to a 380SE. A 420SEL, for instance, would likely made me very happy. I would also consider a 300SE. I think it had about as much power as the 380SE and I consider unbent sixes to be an ideal form . I have to mention, however, that there are a LOT of things we have to take care of before my attention can focus on trying to recreate the experience of driving that great old Mercedes. But I'm working on it.

isellhondas · January 2019

fintail said:
I think the V8 in that specific car might have been the first real attempt by MB to cater to American driving tastes, but the I6 cars (which are many 116s - all of the 280 badged cars, and most 108s) certainly weren't tuned to drivers on this continent. The fun part of the 450 badged cars is you'll be lucky to hit 15 mpg ever in any kind of driving, and you'll likely never beat that number. They are kind of thirsty.

This 1979 450SLC that I have must have the HIGHEST rear end ratio ever made! Off the line it's sluggish for a V-8 but I think it would enjoy an Autobahn run to blow it out!

Mr_Shiftright · January 2019

It is: It's a 3.06. In 1980, they raised the ratio further, to 2.65.

stickguy · January 2019

Craig, I thought you were trying to sell that. No luck?

isellhondas · January 2019

I haven/t tried very hard. I have to learn how to post photos frim my iPhone to Craigslist first. I tried once and got a couple for flakes and dreamers. I don't need that. I need a SERIOUS buyer who knows what the car is for one thing! These were close to 35,000 in 1979 dollars and are quite rare. Sorry I bought it now but it seemed like the thing to do at the time! I should go drive it around the neighborhood. It's been a month!

qbrozen · January 2019

So now you should post “no dreamers! I know what I have!”

LOL

bhill2 · January 2019

Mr_Shiftright said:
It is: It's a 3.06. In 1980, they raised the ratio further, to 2.65.

I don't offhand know what the ratio in my 380SE was. I read somewhere that this engine was developed during the time of fuel shortages and was geared toward economy. It was a little leisurely off the line but if you kept the loud pedal matted it shifted at or near redline. About 35 or so it gained clarity about its orders and was not bad from there on up (certainly up as far as I had the courage to take it; one morning about 5:00, running past San Onofre, I joined a group cruising at about 100, and the old girl was happy to join).

isellhondas · January 2019

Mr_Shiftright said:
It is: It's a 3.06. In 1980, they raised the ratio further, to 2.65.

Thank you! I figured you might know. Wow 2.65! What were they trying to accomplish?

Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles