Lease Questions - Ask Here

CarMan@Edmunds · February 2005

Greetings jbuchta3. Let me begin by saying that $5,000 is way too much money to put down on a lease. I always advise consumers against making any sort of down payment when leasing. I do so for two main reasons. The first is if your vehicle is totaled in an accident or stolen during your lease, your insurance company pays off the bank that you were leasing it through and your down payment essentially disappears. The second main reason is that down payments on leased vehicles do nothing to reduce their lease-end purchase prices. So your lease-end purchase option price for your Pathfinder would be exactly the same, regardless of whether you had put $5,000 down, or had made absolutely no down payment at all.

I would be more than happy to give you my opinion of this deal, but I am not sure if the $36,000 price that you mentioned in your post is its MSRP or selling price. I really need both numbers to assess this deal anyhow. These are important number for you as a consumer to know for two reasons. First, the selling prices of leased vehicles can be negotiated, just as if you were paying cash for them. Without knowing this car's selling price in relation to its MSRP you don't know how much of a discount you are getting on it. The second reason is that one needs the selling price and MSRP, including the destination charge, of a vehicle to calculate its lease payment. I would be more than happy to work up a sample lease payment on the car that you are interested in for you if you let me know what these numbers are.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2005

Here you go, jbaer. If you were to lease a 2005 Saab 9-3 Linear through Saab Financial Services Corp. right now for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00011 and 46%, respectively. When negotiating your lease, keep in mind that Saab is providing $2,500 lease cash on this car that will help you to negotiate an attractive capitalized cost.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2005

Hi pingpng50. Money factors are used by most banks that lease vehicles to determine the interest portion of lease payments. One can convert money factors into approximate interest rate equivalents by multiplying them by 2400.

Lexus is not currently providing any sort of lease support on the 2005 LS 430. As a result, if you were to lease one through Lexus Financial Services, you would have to use its standard lease money factors. Its current base standard factor for Tier 1 customers is .00205 for any length lease. This car's 4 year, 15,000 miles per residual value is currently 47% for models without navigation, Custom Luxury, or Ultra Luxury packages.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2005

No problem, iwants2000. All of the lease money factors that I quote consumers in this forum assume that they are paying a security deposit. AHFC will waive its security deposit requirement in exchange for an increase of .00010 in the factor that is used to calculate your vehicle's payment. AHFC charges a lease acquisition fee of $595 (this fee is higher in New York) on every vehicle that it leases. This charge is not negotiable.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2005

I am glad that you are such an avid reader of this discussion, wdb1011. Here is the information that you are looking for. If you were to lease a 2005 Infiniti G35 Coupe (whether it has navigation does not matter) through Infiniti Financial Services right now for 36 months with 15,000 miles per year, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00215 and 61%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical 42 month lease of this car should be .00215 and 58%. Its residual values for leases with only 12,000 miles per year would be 1% higher.

If you were to lease a 2005 Infiniti G35 Sedan through IFS right now for 36 months with 15,000 miles per, its base money factor and residual value should be .00179 and 60%. The numbers for an otherwise identical 42 month lease of this car should be .00179 and 75%. Again its residual values for leases with only 12,000 miles per year would be 1% higher.

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old · February 2005

As always, Thanks again Car_Man. I did not realize that and that is really good information to know. You are the Man! and I will certainly keep you posted on what I get and what type of deal it is. Take care!
Old

dhamilton · February 2005

I think [i hope] you've made a mistake here. MDX non-touring no nav is the base MDX. Please tell me your not going to pay $39,076. I believe this cars MSRP is around 36,500. You should be able to get it for 34,000, maybe less. Both are great cars as far as reliability. The toyota is not in the class of the Acura as far as fit and finish, and ride quality.

kyfdx · February 2005

Heard it from a salesperson on a BMW-specific forum..

Started checking around, because some of the posters in the X3:Prices Paid forum were quoting MFs and residuals that were better than what I had seen earlier in the month..

I guess I have no life.. lol

regards,
kyfdx

chriscon · February 2005

I've been told by the Toyota dealer that when caluclating the residual value of the car, they base the residual value on the Original MSRP, not the MSRP w/options. Does this sound accurate?

Example

Base MSRP = $27,500
MSRP w/options = $29,789

They are telling me the residual is calculated on the $27,500.

kyfdx · February 2005

Now you know why I never lease Toyotas... What a screwed up system they have....

chriscon · February 2005

do you think this is legit? The way I'm looking at it is that it will reduce my purchase option price if decide to go that route. Nonetheless, I'm getting a $30k car at a sale price of $26,300. no money down @ $325/mo for 36 months, including PA's 9% sales tax. Thanks to car_man for the info on residual and m.f.

kyfdx · February 2005

Depending on region, this is the way Toyota does it... So, technically legit.. If you are buying the car at end of lease, it really doesn't matter, but if you are a straight leaser, it really jacks up the payment..

No opinion on your lease deal... I don't follow Toyota leases.. though at first glance it looks pretty cheap..

regards,
kyfdx

mazda04rx8 · February 2005

Car Man, I have seen you advise against shopping payment. However, If I am aware of my cap cost, residual interest cost and any other up front cost the dealer is trying to charge...AND I have calculated what my monthly cost should be based on the lease numbers I am trying to negotiate with the dealer by arriving at my desired monthly payment, why should I not negotiate on a monthly payment basis? As long as I do not change the terms of the lease or my cap cost don't I arrive at the same point by negotiating a monthly payment? Thanks for your input.

chriscon · February 2005

thanks for the input.

steevo · February 2005

Great info on Highlander..Does a Highlander Limited work out to same payments, assuming same MSRP and Sale price or would limited residual number cause higher/lower payment? If you were to take above lease(post 17234) and simply change vehicle to a Lmited what would be the price?
Thanks CarMan!

jono2 · February 2005

Hey Car Man,

I am currently looking to lease a 2005 rx330 and have a question about leasing companies? What's the catch? I am looking for a 36 month lease with 36k miles, the leasing company has offered 419 a month with 1500 down, the best I have gotten from dealers is around 500 a month with 0 down. Everything else seems the same as far as deposits and acquasition fees, what's the deal with leaseing companies?

jbaer · February 2005

Car_Man - thanks for the numbers, what does $2500 lease cash mean? Is that a direct rebate on whatever price I negotiate? Thanks in advance

v8displacement · February 2005

Car_Man

WOW!

Is this right?

If you were to lease a 2005 GMC Envoy right now through GMAC for 3 years with 12,000 miles per, its base lease rate and residual value should be 4.5% and 58%, respectively.

Then they've got $1500 bonus cash too.

Would these terms and cash apply to the Envoy Denali too?

If so, I may have to rethink things?

I get GM Supplier Pricing and I've got GM Card $'s so this may be a better alternative to either the Titan or M35, although that Infiniti is REALLY nice!

dabklynlady · February 2005

My lease is up on my Altima and now I want to lease a 2005 Murano. Is there any promotions that I should research? How much should I expect to pay a month to lease the Murano?. I just want the basic Murano S AWD with the convenience package.

chriscon · February 2005

That Highlander (non-ltd) must be loaded to the gill with $35000 MSRP. I'm on a 15k mile lease as compared to your 12k mile, but i think the money factor stays the same at .0016 (actually .00106 with FICO > 730), i believe the res. value for 12k is 65%, but you may want to have car_man verify. I don't know the #'s on the LTD model. Hope this helps.

vbellino · February 2005

Hey Car man - I'm looking for the lease payment for a 2004 G35 sedan. Details $34,970 MSRP, $29,430 purchase price, 18K miles per year, 36 months. I would appreciate it if you could provide the MF and residual numbers as well.

Thanks for your help.

dabklynlady · February 2005

I want to lease a Murano S. Can someone help me? I want to know how much approximately my monthly payments will be. I was just quoted $305 a month. Is that fair? Car-Man... Kirsti... can you please help me!!

dblotner · February 2005

Car_man -

Can you give me the residual and money factors on a 2005 Saab 9-5 Arc Wagon for a 36 month 15k lease?

This is the deal we've been offered. Saab will absorb the last three months of our current Saab wagon lease and waive the $350 disposition fee if we lease another Saab. Specifics of the deal are:

MSRP for Arc wagon--$37,770
Selling Price------ $33,690
Lease loyalty ($500)$33,190

Dealer was suggesting a $3000 down payment, which would result in monthly payments, they said, of $452. Taxes were being rolled into the lease, so as I understand the terms, we would be paying a total of $3017 out of pocket (I don't know what the extra $17 is--probably they just rounded the down payment # down when they first presented this to me.)

I know Saab is offering some lease support for these vehicles, but I'm assuming the dealer has already factored that in to their selling price.

Is this a deal worth taking? In general, is the Saab lease program currently being offered a good deal?

Sorry for all the questions, but we need to decide by Monday whether to take this deal.

artbra · February 2005

Hi guys,

I need some help trying to decide what would be my best deal. Toyota 4 runner sport vs Murano. I am looking for a 36 month lease with 36k miles. How much should I expect to pay for each and which one do you recommend?
Thanks,
ARTBRA

zachsmom · February 2005

Hello,

I notice a number of people commenting about lease support offered by Saab in the amount of $2,500. However, when I go to Saab's Web page or Edmunds I see no mention of this support. What am I missing? I am in the beginning stage of negotiating a lease on a 9-5 and I need all the help I can get. Thanks in advance for any help you can give me. I will write back later with specifics to get your opinion on the "deal" I strike.

wdb1011 · February 2005

Car_man,

Thank you for the information on the G35 Sedan and Coupe.

Question: On the 42 month G35 Sedan residual - 15,000, I think that there was a typo. The message read 75%. Should it be 55%?

Thanks again.

jone345 · February 2005

Car_Man please help. Is this a good deal?

2004 - g35 couple with Leather and Premium package

Grosss cap :34,660
cap cost reduct : none
Reidual value : 20796.00
Deprecition : 13864
rent charge : 5969.12
total base monthly payment : 19833.12+tax = 22351.70
total : 36 months
pay /month : 596.37
12,000 mile per yr.
amount due at signing : 1478.75

coffee_fan · February 2005

Hi Car_Man / Kirstie, I am new to leeasing and trying to figure out the numbers on a SAAB 9-5 Wagon for a 36 month lease. I have several questions:

1) What is an acceptable acquisition fee?
2) What are the money factors for both the Linear and Arc versions.
3) Same wrt. residual values at end of lease.
4) How much can dealers mark-up items (1) or (2)

Thanks much for your help

couchman57 · February 2005

Carman,

Here is deal that was negotiated the other night based on my research and your advice. This is final and we pick up the car on Saturday morning. Details include:

> Car: Infinit G35x All-Wheel Drive with Nav, Leather, sunroof, IntelliKey, dual-zone climate control, and Package "C."
> Sticker: $38,950
> Estimated Invoice: $35,620
> Negotiated Selling Price: $36,520
> 36 Months @ 15,000 Miles Per year
> Residual @ 60% or $21,912
> MF @ .0019645
> Zero $ down against negotiated selling price.
> Tax, tag, title, Acquisition Fee, 1st Month payment, delivery fee from another state and the addition of Satellite Radio = $2007 paid via Amex at signing.
> Total monthly payment including 7% tax: $557.01

Let me know your thoughts on the final deal. I know the major figure effecting my final deal is the MF, but getting this information from the dealer was really difficult. Your thoughts....

vbellino · February 2005

Couchman-

Shouldn't the residual be 60% of MSRP not negotiated sell price? That would make your residual $23,370 and your payment about $517/month if the rest of my math is correct. I could certainly be wrong as I'm just trying to get my head around lease numbers for the first time...

Vince

coby03 · February 2005

Couchman57,

I'm sure Car_man will respond to you but I thought I'd give you some feedback from my experience with Infiniti. They weren't very straightforward in dealing with me and I also found it difficult to get correct information out of them. When I looked at the numbers you laid out in your message, something didn't seem right. When I calculate the monthly payment based on a 36 month lease, $38,950 MSRP, $36,520 selling price, and the RV & MF you specified, I calculate a pre-tax monthly payment of $455. Adding in 7% tax gives $487. Significantly different than the $557 you indicated. Also, I noticed that the residual value was not calculated properly. The RV of 60% is applied to the MSRP, not the selling price, thus it is $23,370 not the $21,912 for your deal. That still doesn't explain the wide difference in monthly payment provided by your dealer. Maybe Car_man will have some better explanation. Good luck!

CarMan@Edmunds · February 2005

Hi v8displacement. Here is the informaiton that you are looking for. If you were to lease a 2005 Nissan Titan LE Crew Cab 4WD through Nissan Motor Acceptance Corp. right now for 36 months with 15,000 miles per year, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00185 and 56%, respectively. The money factor for an otherwise identical 39 month lease would be the same, but the residual value would be 55%.

If you were to lease a 2006 Infiniti M35 Sport through Infiniti Financial Services right now for 48 months with 15,000 miles per year, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00179 and 49%.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2005

You're very welcome, funky1020. Just in case you are interested, BMW enhanced its lease program on the X3 a few days ago. I would be more than happy to work up sample lease payments on these vehicles for you, however in order for me to do so, I need you to provide me with their full MSRPs (including destination charges) and selling prices.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2005

Hello Terry. Compensation plans vary from dealership to dealership. Of course, the more extras the F&I person that you are dealing with sells you, the more money they will make. Why do you need to know how much the F&I person who you are working with is making?

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2005

Greetings jone345. I would be more than happy to give you my opinion of this deal. However, in order to do so I needs some additional informaiton from you first. Specifically, I need you to tell me this car's MSRP. This number will enable me to see how much of a discount you are getting on the G35 Coupe that you want and will give me the ability to work up a sample lease payment on this car to compare to the one that you were quoted.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2005

You are absolutely correct, marwan. Most Nissan dealers that still have 2004 Muranos in inventory will be anxious to sell them. If you were to lease a 2004 Nissan Murano SE AWD through Nissan Motor Acceptance Corp. right now for 42 months with 15,000 miles per year its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00133 and 55%, respectively. Using these numbers, an MSRP of $36,710, and a selling price of $30,000, I come up with a zero down, pre-tax monthly payment of around $301. It is in your best interest to lease this vehicle without making any sort of capitalized cost reduction, but if you really want to put $1,000 down, it would drop the payment for an otherwise identical lease to around $276.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2005

Yep, I'm still here Ky-Won. I suppose that I could be called a grizzled veteran by now

. Welcome back. Yep, General Motors rolled out a lease pull-ahead program about a week ago. This program is scheduled to run through the end of the month. If you want to take advantage of it, it would be a good idea to do so before March because there is no guarantee that it will be renewed. If I had a Saab and qualified for this program I definitely would jump on the opportunity to get out of my lease five months early at no additional cost. If you were to lease a 2005 Saab 9-5 Aero Sedan through Saab Financial Services Corp. right now for 3 years with 12,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00029 and 45%, respectively. When negotiating your lease on this car, keep in mind that Saab is providing $3,000 lease cash on it that will help you negotiate an attractive capitalized cost.

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v8displacement · February 2005

Car_Man,

Thanks for the info. This really helps out, would the the MF and Residuals be the same on a 2 wheel drive Titan?

stalnaker · February 2005

Is the money factor higher on the model with navigation? Without navigation it's only 0.00172.

Ernest

couchman57 · February 2005

You make a great point.....is the residual calculated on sticker or negotiated price? I calclauted both ways this morning and that turns into about $1,400 difference on the 36 month term.

C'mon on Carman....did I just lose $1,400?

kyfdx · February 2005

Residual is always calculated on MSRP... Or a portion thereof.. the selling price has nothing to do with the residual...

The car will be worth the same at the end of the lease, no matter how little or much you might have paid for it...

jone345 · February 2005

Car_man
Thank you, MSRP for this is 34110. Also, is it true ; for example I lease the car for 3 year, but with in 2 year I want to lease a better car, I can do so with some fee charge ?. The sale guy said I don't pay any fee you just lease a new car and turn in the one you were leasing. Is that mean I will end up paying 2 lease altogether ? ( from scam alert ) is this true ? or is the sale guy trying to get me in to the scam?. If not, how would I know I won't be paying 2 lease instead of one?

Thank

steevo · February 2005

Car_Man,
I am going to try and work out a lease for a Toyota highlander Limited using similar numbers you posted above for the non-limited highlander. This is the price data for the actual vehicle I am looking at :
Toy Highlander AWD Limited V6.
MSRP 35,562
Sell to me for 31,458 . Invoice is 31883.
Looking for 36 months 12000/yr.
Could you price out the actual lease number for this vehicle? My guess is it should be close to the non-limited you already priced. Since my sell price is less I am thinking lease will be less, unless residual major diff for limited.
Thanks!

aschmidt · February 2005

Car_Man,

I was wondering if you could help me with what a fair/reasonable lease deal on an '05 Acura MDX would be. I'm looking at ...

'05 Acura MDX
Touring w/ Navigation
MSRP of $42,845
39 mos.
18,000 miles/yr

I would be willing to put down up to $3500, but, of course, the less out of pocket the better! This will be my first lease, so I am doing my best to "cover all my bases" on the deal. I have several questions... hopefully they are easy ones for you!

1. What would be a fair selling price? Typically, I think $500 over invoice (which would be $38,580) is fair for a purchase, but does that carry over to a lease?

2. What would you use to calculate the basis of the residual? I'm assuming it would be something less than MSRP, but don't know.

3. Would the 0.00196 money factor and 57% residual value stated in the previous message apply to this vehicle? I am planning to lease through the dealer (American Honda Finance Corp.).

4. Regarding taxes, the dealer said they have a tax credit incentive they can apply, which they aren't allowed to advertise... It amounts to paying 1.2% for taxes, instead of the usual 6.25% (I am in Plano, TX which is just north of Dallas area). They add the 1.2% back into the vehicle price, and show zero taxes (the dealership then pays the taxes?). Have you heard of this incentive?

Is there any other information or advice you might have, like hidden fees to look out for? I am looking to make the deal in the next few days if, as long as it works out within my budget.

Thank you, thank you, thank you in advance!

cdallen2004 · February 2005

Hey guys.

I am a 20 yr old entrpeneur in Dallas Texas and I have a question.

I really like the new Porsche Boxster and I spend alot of time researching it, looking at pics of it, etc. So, I have decided to place myself in the market for this cute little sports car. Where I am moving (Oaklawn neighborhood of Dallas, Texas), there are lots of people drive Boxsters and 911's due to the higher income of the people that live there.

So my question is: Could I possibly lease a Boxster with paying the full lease amount in cash? If I do that, I am assuming that no credit issues would arise. Am I right? If my lease on a Boxster is one year, and I pay the entire year upfront in cash, do you think I have a good chance of taking delivery of the vehicle?

Thanks for your input.

CarMan@Edmunds · February 2005

You're very welcome, Old.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2005

Hi chriscon. The salesperson who you spoke with was correct. For some reason, unlike most banks, Toyota Financial Services' residual values are based upon a percentage of vehicle's Base MSRPs. It may have some sort of hard add system to at least account for a portion of the options that are on their models, but if it does I am not familiar with it.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2005

Hi mazda04rx8. As long as you are aware of how much you are paying for the vehicle that you want in relation to its full MSRP or invoice price and know what sort of money factor is being used to calculate your lease payment, there is nothing wrong with shopping payments. I usually advise consumers against just looking at vehicles' lease payments because there are so many variables that go into it that the dealers can often change the length of a lease or its mileage allowance to make a deal look better than it really is. In my opinion, the two most important numbers to know when leasing are vehicles' selling prices and money factors because these are the only negotiable aspects of leases.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2005

No problem, steevo. All things being equal (meaning the MSRPs, selling prices, length of lease, and mileage allowance) 2005 Toyota Highlander Limited models would be more expensive to lease than non-Limited models because the Limiteds have residual values that are several points lower. Taking the calculations for a non-Limited model and just plugging in the lease program for a Limited would not result in an accurate payment estimate because a Limited Highlander is a more expensive truck than the base version.

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CarMan@Edmunds · February 2005

Hey jono2. There's nothing wrong with leasing a vehicle through an independent bank, provided they are reputable and will not add all sorts of high fees to your lease or hammer you with a huge lease-end penalty for excess wear and tear. If you tell me the full MSRP and selling price of the RX 330 that you are interested in and how it is equipped I would be happy to calculate a sample lease payment on it for you using Lexus' actual lease program. You can compare the payment that I come up with with the quotes that you have received from independent banks.

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