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Comments
-juice
1) cost and availability. there's squat for tires and those that are around are really pricey.
2) weight. they are typically 50% heavier than standard tires. an 20 tire becomes 30. don't tell me you couldn't notice a handling difference with 10 more pounds of unsprung and rotating weight at each corner! (ok, actually some couldn't.)
I have a donut with my 2.5RS and it is fine. It's been years since I had a flat-- I actually inspect my tires regularly and I don't drive over crap that I can see. I'd rather have a cell phone than give up trunk space for a fullsize spare I'd would not likely use anyway.
Oh, and in a previous vehicle I removed the donut and installed a subwoofer enclosure. Again it's obvious I'm not big on spares at all.
-Colin
The Outback, Outback Sport, and Forester are expected to do a little more heavy duty trails, where there are a lot more road hazards.
I'm not sure a run-flat would even survive in the conditions the vehicles are expected to drive through. I kind of doubt a donut would, either. And AAA may not even be willing to reach you if you're not on a paved road.
-juice
Cheers Pat. Ps. I have had this experience and with a brand new tire I picked up a drywall screw.
The run-flats my Dad used to have on his Continental, gave a harsher ride than my OBS! Like Pat mentioned, depends where you drive I suppose.
Dennis
Yes, a fullsize spare would be nice, but it is nowhere near the top of my list of desired improvements (#1: more power! #2: more gears!) It probably depends on what I have to give up to get it. What I would -not- want to give up:
- fuel capacity
- structural integrity
- suspension travel
- ground clearance
Regards,
-wdb
But I agree with Juice that those of us who do go offroad, a full-size spare is a must.
-mike
But we're talking about the Outback here, folks. The vehicle Dave Chen used to be the hero and yank that 4Runner out of a mud pit while off roading. Same as the one our buddy Dave Zartman takes on tough dirt trails and shares wonderful photos of. The one driven on the beach in the last edition of Drive, and I'm guessing his name was also Dave! :-)
Seriously - a donut in the sand would be about as effective as a boat anchor.
-juice
All change involves compromise; every Outback owner AND Legacy owner should respond to Patti's request, and they should ask themselves: what are they willing (or not willing) to lose in order to make room for a fullsize spare?
Regards,
-wdb
I believe Aussie Outbacks use fractinally smaller tires (215/60) that fit in the same well. That's certainly one option.
In fact, now that I think about it - your Legacy GT's tires are smaller in diameter, and 20mm more narrow, so a full sizer just may fit as-is in the GT and L models. Maybe the wheels are too wide?
The OB has the biggest tires in the Subaru line-up. Solve that problem and the rest inherit the fix.
On the way back from CT, I saw a Cherokee with a spare on the roof! It actually looked cool, though I know it's not practical. I've seen ones with spares on a hitch carrier, too.
-juice
While I'm all for a full-size spare, I do have a couple of questions:
How much larger would the existing donut holder have to be to fit a full-size? Would there need to be room for 'growth' - those switching to plus one's?
What happens when you get a flat and you put your never-used full size spare on - and the other tires are at the end of their tread life? Obviously, an informed owner would rotate all 5 tires to remedy this - but what about the other 1%? How much damage is this going to do to the drivertrain?
-Brian
I expect (hope) that the AWD system's tolerance allows for normal tread wear differences. With open diffs it does. I'm not sure about the LSD or VDC. Patti?
-juice
Ross
This scenario actually happened to me a while back. I got an unrepairable flat and had to use the spare. Not only did it look funny, but the tread difference was almost 1/4" off. I ended up having to locate a used tire with similar treadwear to my other three. Luckily, the local tire shop was able to find a bunch of used Geolandars from someone who just got a new set of tires for her Forester S!
Ken
-mike
-Colin
2000 and newer Forester S models, higher end OBs and RSs that have a rear LSD may have lower tolerances.
Where are you guys driving, though? I haven't had a flat in more than a decade (that sound you hear is me knocking on wood...).
-juice
Yes, we get Yokohama Geolandar 215/60 R16 tyres here in OZ. Strangely, and for entirely tax related reasons, our Outback has 200mm (7.9 inches) clearance which is a bit more than US spec models. The import duty rate on 4wd vehicles is 5% rather than 15% and hence I am glad to be sitting that fraction higher.
The Forester in Australia is also 200mm off the ground. I guess the suspension must be jacked up a bit
Cheers
Graham
Just so you know, I did share both sides of the issue. I have to be fair on this board and keep my own personal opinion out of it. I think that is what you want from me? ;~}
FYI - the first response to this question from FHI was that we could not do it because of the tire width. It did not allow for room for the full size. I did not feel that you folks would want to tires made smaller, but FHI is pretty suave about addressing engineering issues, so I'm hoping we can have our tires and a full size too!
I appreciate the responses. Thanks folks!
Patti
I'm really looking forward to it. Since I'm not allowed to ski or tube or anything, I think I'll just drive around for a week. That'll be my fun!
Since we will be traveling in a convoy of 11 different vehicles, I'll be able to do some comparisons. Since I'm all Sube all the time, it'll be a good experience!
Patti
Loosh: check your math! 215/60R16 is actually 0.5% smaller than your stock size, and should be within tolerance to use the donut (you have two open diffys, like me). 225/60R16 is 1.3% bigger.
As for the donut - if FHI says the 225s are too wide, but the 215s in OZ fit, surely the more narrow 205s on the GT can fit. No problem there.
YEAH! 3 to 6 inches today! OOOH Baby! Please don't be another dud of a storm! The ride home should be fun. Let's see. I think I can come up with 4 or 5 emergency errands I'll need to run tonight! :-)
-juice
PS Don't forget the chat tonight, folks!
I've just gotten the Winter Drive issue that was mailed to me by your staff. Makes me feel better, and I need to feel better because MY FORESTER IS STILL IN THE SHOP!!! (yes, I'm shouting, and yes, it's been there for whopping 12 weeks already).
Now the bozos in the shop keep on saying that "we just want to make sure everything's taken care of, ma'am". I suspect the real reason is that they apparently did not run the unibody/frame test that they were supposed to do earlier in the process. I requested a computer printout from the test, to make sure my car is as square as it supposed to be, and they dropped dead (don't talk to me, don't return my calls). I guess they're trying now to figure out how to fix a body with all the panels already on. Grrr, grrr, grrr. Too bad this shop is not under the SOA umbrella.
You're scaring me, Kate. Blanca (my Miata) is now in the shop for her cosmetic surgery. At least there was no frame damage.
-juice
Cheers Pat.
-mike
Juice, don't just rely on what shop says about the frame. Ask them to run a test. A friend of mine was recently rear-ended in her little Saturn. Damage was small and looked like purely cosmetic. However, her shop did run a computerized test on her car, to make absolutely sure frame was not damaged (it was not). This how I learned about such tests and printouts. The bozos in my shop were telling me crap like "oh, in THIS type of accidents frame never gets damaged, trust us" (yeah right). But when I asked for a printout they got silent.
The Miata was driveable and tracked straight, so even the alignment was not affected. Doesn't hurt to ask, I guess.
Who cares? With 3-6" of snow at least the timing for the repairs was good (I know, I see the glass half full...).
-juice
http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/Forum24/HTML/001624.html
Dennis
Click here
Dealer was great yesterday. Dropped off the the 00 (sad). They forgot the bumper guard on the 01 so they gave it to their detail person, had him drive me back home (10 miles) and install it on the 01 in my driveway. In addition he helped me button up my stereo install with lots of great pointers to boot... all for free.
bit
Fortunately, no body parts! Yuck!
Anyone here have funny stories about stuff found in used cars? My old Mustang had $1000 in Travelers Checks!
Bit: good to go. I'd wait until mid-March for the first wax application (to be safe) to make sure the paint is fully cured. In the meantime, keep it clean - especially bird droppings and tree sap. Use only mild detergents.
-juice
Thank you Serge for your hospitality. Not just Chinese but primo dim sum, yeah buddy!
For you coaster fans, check out the Roller Coaster database. Per the efficacious recommendations of Serge, I rode the Hurricane, a woody, at Boomers in Dania Beach, between Ft. Lauderdale and Miami (my wife went on a work boondoggle to a golf resort and I tagged along). Coasters beat golf any day of the week!
Then (and also Serge's idea), I had a blast on a 1.5 mile go-kart track. For two hours I drove, trying to find "the line" and on my last run I rolled the inside left front tire. Mission accomplished, back to the hotel.
Thanks, Serge. Rolling the tire made my day.
..Mike
..Mike
Cool! I'm also going up to Yosemite this weekend as well! I'll keep a look out for any OB sedans -- those are still pretty rare.
FYI, I'll be driving around in a black 98 Forester S.
Ken
SSSNNNOOOOOOOW! Oh, it's so beautiful, I'm going to CRY! PLEASE KEEP FALLING!
My wife was out in her 626 and said it was a mess. Her car was all over the road! Time for the 2nd SOOB BAY-BEE!
What did you mean by rolling the tire? Don't they always do that? ;-)
-juice
I'll be at the chat tonight.
..Mike
..Mike
Bet the tire pressure was low. Hmm, were those Firestones? ;-)
Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow...
:-)
-juice
-Colin
I think you guys will love the shot of Tati's very first Subaru!
-juice
It definetly takes a road trip to make you realize just how nicely put together the Outback is. The car rode magnificently!
Mark
PS Juice, I did notice a lot of Subaru's all over Rhode Island!
;-)
-juice
P.S. I am a roller coaster CHICKEN...never been on one, though I eventualy plan on that road by starting with Thunder Mountain Railroad at Disney World
My Mikey will be jealous that you went on the go-karts...he loves them..he asked me if he was tall enough yet to go by himself (not yet)
They just announced that we're allowed to leave early if we feel it would make it safer for us to get home. DOH!
I'm DOOMED never to get another snow day off again!
This is perhaps the biggest drawback every Subaru has.
That's it. I'm lying. Oh no! I drove the Miata today (never mind that it's in the shop!).
-juice