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Subaru Crew - Meet The Members II

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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Foresters have full sizers, too. I think all Soobs should, though.

    -juice
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    locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I have two major problems with runflats:

    1) cost and availability. there's squat for tires and those that are around are really pricey.

    2) weight. they are typically 50% heavier than standard tires. an 20 tire becomes 30. don't tell me you couldn't notice a handling difference with 10 more pounds of unsprung and rotating weight at each corner! (ok, actually some couldn't.)

    I have a donut with my 2.5RS and it is fine. It's been years since I had a flat-- I actually inspect my tires regularly and I don't drive over crap that I can see. I'd rather have a cell phone than give up trunk space for a fullsize spare I'd would not likely use anyway.

    Oh, and in a previous vehicle I removed the donut and installed a subwoofer enclosure. Again it's obvious I'm not big on spares at all.

    -Colin
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Subaru doesn't put the RS on gravel/dirt roads in its brochures, though.

    The Outback, Outback Sport, and Forester are expected to do a little more heavy duty trails, where there are a lot more road hazards.

    I'm not sure a run-flat would even survive in the conditions the vehicles are expected to drive through. I kind of doubt a donut would, either. And AAA may not even be willing to reach you if you're not on a paved road.

    -juice
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    hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    TO each their own, but I think that If I had a flat at 30 below at 1am in the middle of nowhere even a doughnut would be infinitely preferable to a subwoofer.
    Cheers Pat. Ps. I have had this experience and with a brand new tire I picked up a drywall screw.
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    bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    If you're planning to drive on the beach in Cape Cod, a requirement is that you have a full size spare. juice, you're right about AAA. I've already read their rules on that.
    The run-flats my Dad used to have on his Continental, gave a harsher ride than my OBS! Like Pat mentioned, depends where you drive I suppose.
    Dennis
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    francophilefrancophile Member Posts: 667
    Bottom line: It works.

    Yes, a fullsize spare would be nice, but it is nowhere near the top of my list of desired improvements (#1: more power! #2: more gears!) It probably depends on what I have to give up to get it. What I would -not- want to give up:
    - fuel capacity
    - structural integrity
    - suspension travel
    - ground clearance

    Regards,
    -wdb
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    amishraamishra Member Posts: 367
    I'd be betting that 90% of Outback, Sport, and Forester owners never take their vehicles off-road.

    But I agree with Juice that those of us who do go offroad, a full-size spare is a must.
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    If you are that desperate to have a full sized spare, you can use the slot for the donut for storage and mount the tire on the driver's side inside the cabin. That is how my old Ramcharger had it stored.

    -mike
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Colin has an RS and doesn't drive on beaches - he drives on paved autocross courses. WDB has a sharp-looking GT sedan and I can't imagine him taking that off road. Cross country, yes.

    But we're talking about the Outback here, folks. The vehicle Dave Chen used to be the hero and yank that 4Runner out of a mud pit while off roading. Same as the one our buddy Dave Zartman takes on tough dirt trails and shares wonderful photos of. The one driven on the beach in the last edition of Drive, and I'm guessing his name was also Dave! :-)

    Seriously - a donut in the sand would be about as effective as a boat anchor.

    -juice
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    francophilefrancophile Member Posts: 667
    juice, I agree that an Outback owner is more likely to benefit from a fullsize spare than a GT owner. However if Subaru must retool to make room for it the changes will probably affect *all* Legacies, not just Outbacks. Therefore such a change could have an effect on my next purchase (Americanized B4, hope hope). Therefore my perspective is warranted and IMHO just as valuable as an OB owner's.

    All change involves compromise; every Outback owner AND Legacy owner should respond to Patti's request, and they should ask themselves: what are they willing (or not willing) to lose in order to make room for a fullsize spare?

    Regards,
    -wdb
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    lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    Hell, I read the manual and STILL didn't know I had to pull a fuse to use my donut!! That right there is a good reason to have a full size.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    WDB: depends. How 'bout a little engineering genius to solve the problem? You're an engineer, right? The trick is to not have to make those sacrifices.

    I believe Aussie Outbacks use fractinally smaller tires (215/60) that fit in the same well. That's certainly one option.

    In fact, now that I think about it - your Legacy GT's tires are smaller in diameter, and 20mm more narrow, so a full sizer just may fit as-is in the GT and L models. Maybe the wheels are too wide?

    The OB has the biggest tires in the Subaru line-up. Solve that problem and the rest inherit the fix.

    On the way back from CT, I saw a Cherokee with a spare on the roof! It actually looked cool, though I know it's not practical. I've seen ones with spares on a hitch carrier, too.

    -juice
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    subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    Patti: my pro-full size spare message should be in your inbox by now.

    While I'm all for a full-size spare, I do have a couple of questions:

    How much larger would the existing donut holder have to be to fit a full-size? Would there need to be room for 'growth' - those switching to plus one's?
    What happens when you get a flat and you put your never-used full size spare on - and the other tires are at the end of their tread life? Obviously, an informed owner would rotate all 5 tires to remedy this - but what about the other 1%? How much damage is this going to do to the drivertrain?

    -Brian
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Actually, I'm not sure you can rotate the 5 tires. The Forester, for example, has a steel rim on the spare, not alloy. So the size is right, but it sure would look odd!

    I expect (hope) that the AWD system's tolerance allows for normal tread wear differences. With open diffs it does. I'm not sure about the LSD or VDC. Patti?

    -juice
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    armac13armac13 Member Posts: 1,129
    you have to insert a fuse, not remove it!

    Ross
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    kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Brian raises a good point about spare tires in general. If your tires are fairly worn and need to use the spare, you can potentially damage the tranny if the tread differences are big enough. It kind of reduces the benefits of lugging around a full-sized spare.

    This scenario actually happened to me a while back. I got an unrepairable flat and had to use the spare. Not only did it look funny, but the tread difference was almost 1/4" off. I ended up having to locate a used tire with similar treadwear to my other three. Luckily, the local tire shop was able to find a bunch of used Geolandars from someone who just got a new set of tires for her Forester S!

    Ken
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I had a problem with my Trooper due to 1/2" difference in tire size due to wear on an ir-repairable flat tire.

    -mike
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    locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I do believe Subaru of America's customer support reps (800 line and email) will tell you that up to 1/2" difference in rotating diameter is acceptable. Obviously the less difference the happier your differentials will be.

    -Colin
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    For short term use, Ken would have been fine anyway. He has open front and rear diffys.

    2000 and newer Forester S models, higher end OBs and RSs that have a rear LSD may have lower tolerances.

    Where are you guys driving, though? I haven't had a flat in more than a decade (that sound you hear is me knocking on wood...).

    -juice
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    lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    So does that mean I can put 215/60 on my OB? Prolly not. That is something like a 3.4% difference, which is too much.
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    grahampetersgrahampeters Member Posts: 1,786
    G'day
    Yes, we get Yokohama Geolandar 215/60 R16 tyres here in OZ. Strangely, and for entirely tax related reasons, our Outback has 200mm (7.9 inches) clearance which is a bit more than US spec models. The import duty rate on 4wd vehicles is 5% rather than 15% and hence I am glad to be sitting that fraction higher.

    The Forester in Australia is also 200mm off the ground. I guess the suspension must be jacked up a bit

    Cheers

    Graham
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    pattim3pattim3 Member Posts: 533
    Thank you for all of your messages. I have shared them with a gent. in our Product Planning group who is really receptive to the feedback. He has assured me he will share with FHI.

    Just so you know, I did share both sides of the issue. I have to be fair on this board and keep my own personal opinion out of it. I think that is what you want from me? ;~}

    FYI - the first response to this question from FHI was that we could not do it because of the tire width. It did not allow for room for the full size. I did not feel that you folks would want to tires made smaller, but FHI is pretty suave about addressing engineering issues, so I'm hoping we can have our tires and a full size too!

    I appreciate the responses. Thanks folks!

    Patti
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    pattim3pattim3 Member Posts: 533
    We're looking for some snow today. Yiippppeee. I was told yesterday that I will have a VDC for our drive to Maine in a few weeks for vacation. I'm sure I'll have enough to put it through it's paces then. (Theo - I'll share stories with you).

    I'm really looking forward to it. Since I'm not allowed to ski or tube or anything, I think I'll just drive around for a week. That'll be my fun!

    Since we will be traveling in a convoy of 11 different vehicles, I'll be able to do some comparisons. Since I'm all Sube all the time, it'll be a good experience!

    Patti
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Graham: sounds like you guys have taller springs. And full size spares, right?

    Loosh: check your math! :p 215/60R16 is actually 0.5% smaller than your stock size, and should be within tolerance to use the donut (you have two open diffys, like me). 225/60R16 is 1.3% bigger.

    As for the donut - if FHI says the 225s are too wide, but the 215s in OZ fit, surely the more narrow 205s on the GT can fit. No problem there.

    YEAH! 3 to 6 inches today! OOOH Baby! Please don't be another dud of a storm! The ride home should be fun. Let's see. I think I can come up with 4 or 5 emergency errands I'll need to run tonight! :-)

    -juice

    PS Don't forget the chat tonight, folks!
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    lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    Doh! True, although in my defense, when OZ tire sizes first came up, it was simply that they were 215/60 without mention of rim size. 16" makes more sense- that is a straight plus one from the US 205/70/15.
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    kate5000kate5000 Member Posts: 1,271
    Thanks Patti,

    I've just gotten the Winter Drive issue that was mailed to me by your staff. Makes me feel better, and I need to feel better because MY FORESTER IS STILL IN THE SHOP!!! (yes, I'm shouting, and yes, it's been there for whopping 12 weeks already).
    Now the bozos in the shop keep on saying that "we just want to make sure everything's taken care of, ma'am". I suspect the real reason is that they apparently did not run the unibody/frame test that they were supposed to do earlier in the process. I requested a computer printout from the test, to make sure my car is as square as it supposed to be, and they dropped dead (don't talk to me, don't return my calls). I guess they're trying now to figure out how to fix a body with all the panels already on. Grrr, grrr, grrr. Too bad this shop is not under the SOA umbrella.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    OK, who pulled the strings for Kate? I'm still awaiting my Drive...

    You're scaring me, Kate. Blanca (my Miata) is now in the shop for her cosmetic surgery. At least there was no frame damage.

    -juice
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    lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    I think it might be lawyer time.
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    hondafriekhondafriek Member Posts: 2,984
    I agree with Lucien,I know you love your Forester but I don;t think I would be wanting this vehicle back, talk to a lawyer and sue their [non-permissible content removed] off.
    Cheers Pat.
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I have a few "friends" in SF area, maybe they can visit the shop for you... Body shops generally react better to visits than lawyers... ;)

    -mike
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    kate5000kate5000 Member Posts: 1,271
    For your support. Two weeks ago, I've got my insurance involved, and if this does not work out, the lawyer visit is due... too bad I don't have a lawyer friend who could issue a letter with intimidating letterhead.

    Juice, don't just rely on what shop says about the frame. Ask them to run a test. A friend of mine was recently rear-ended in her little Saturn. Damage was small and looked like purely cosmetic. However, her shop did run a computerized test on her car, to make absolutely sure frame was not damaged (it was not). This how I learned about such tests and printouts. The bozos in my shop were telling me crap like "oh, in THIS type of accidents frame never gets damaged, trust us" (yeah right). But when I asked for a printout they got silent.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think I will call the body shop, to follow up and inquire about that test.

    The Miata was driveable and tracked straight, so even the alignment was not affected. Doesn't hurt to ask, I guess.

    Who cares? With 3-6" of snow at least the timing for the repairs was good (I know, I see the glass half full...).

    -juice
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    bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Patti - Will SoA ever put out in-depth info to stop speculation and mis-information?
    http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/Forum24/HTML/001624.html
    Dennis
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    dsackmandsackman Member Posts: 145
    The prediction is 4"-7" snow in the Yosemite Valley. Guess where I am going for a long weekend today!. I am taking the new Outback Sedan. (sans full size spare). Camera is loaded. Whoopee!
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    kate5000kate5000 Member Posts: 1,271
    some gruesome story from our friends down under:
    Click here
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    originalbitmanoriginalbitman Member Posts: 920
    If I recall correctly I should wait 6 weeks before I wax my new wagon...? The only build date I see is 1/01...no day. Any clues where to get a more accurate build date?

    Dealer was great yesterday. Dropped off the the 00 (sad). They forgot the bumper guard on the 01 so they gave it to their detail person, had him drive me back home (10 miles) and install it on the 01 in my driveway. In addition he helped me button up my stereo install with lots of great pointers to boot... all for free.

    bit
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The Miata was used, but I looked it over with a magnifying glass. And I found plenty of stuff - a CD and a tape, various pens, service receipts, gas receipts, even a hat! All were returned to the previous owner with the license plates.

    Fortunately, no body parts! Yuck!

    Anyone here have funny stories about stuff found in used cars? My old Mustang had $1000 in Travelers Checks!

    Bit: good to go. I'd wait until mid-March for the first wax application (to be safe) to make sure the paint is fully cured. In the meantime, keep it clean - especially bird droppings and tree sap. Use only mild detergents.

    -juice
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    tincup47tincup47 Member Posts: 1,508
    I haven't bought a used car in years, but we bought a new 88 Mustang convertible and found a nice swivel air ratchet in the well the top folded into. The convertibles in 88 were done by ASC, so I guess one of their mechanics came up 1 tool short. I still use it regularly.
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    miksmimiksmi Member Posts: 1,246
    Serge, you beat me to the post! soon2bsubee Feb 20, 2001 12:18pm

    Thank you Serge for your hospitality. Not just Chinese but primo dim sum, yeah buddy!

    For you coaster fans, check out the Roller Coaster database. Per the efficacious recommendations of Serge, I rode the Hurricane, a woody, at Boomers in Dania Beach, between Ft. Lauderdale and Miami (my wife went on a work boondoggle to a golf resort and I tagged along). Coasters beat golf any day of the week!

    Then (and also Serge's idea), I had a blast on a 1.5 mile go-kart track. For two hours I drove, trying to find "the line" and on my last run I rolled the inside left front tire. Mission accomplished, back to the hotel.

    Thanks, Serge. Rolling the tire made my day.

    ..Mike

    ..Mike

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    kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Dan,

    Cool! I'm also going up to Yosemite this weekend as well! I'll keep a look out for any OB sedans -- those are still pretty rare.

    FYI, I'll be driving around in a black 98 Forester S.

    Ken
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Mike's back. Welcome. Coming to chat tonight? If I can get you out of this...

    SSSNNNOOOOOOOW! Oh, it's so beautiful, I'm going to CRY! PLEASE KEEP FALLING!

    My wife was out in her 626 and said it was a mess. Her car was all over the road! Time for the 2nd SOOB BAY-BEE!

    What did you mean by rolling the tire? Don't they always do that? ;-)

    -juice
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    miksmimiksmi Member Posts: 1,246
    I rolled the inside front tire bead off the wheel (of the kart) about 4 turns before the finish line. The outside tire bead remained seated. Fortunately, I didn't damage the tire or wheel and remained in control. Given the motor's governor, I was surprised I could get fast enough to roll a tire off the wheel.

    I'll be at the chat tonight.

    ..Mike

    ..Mike

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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Wild. That's not about pure speed, though, that's lateral pressure. You were HAULIN'!

    Bet the tire pressure was low. Hmm, were those Firestones? ;-)

    Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow...

    :-)

    -juice
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    lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    Welcome home droog!
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    locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I agree with Juice on the low pressure. Karting is fun!

    -Colin
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Hey folks, check out the Subaru Crew Photo Gallery.

    I think you guys will love the shot of Tati's very first Subaru!

    -juice
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    bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    Just got back from a trip to Newport, RI. The car rode great, and even with the heater going full blast a couple of nights, I got the best MPG yet (23.85). I realize that it was mostly highway, but it was nice to finally break the 23 mark. I have to agree with you Juice regarding the speed thing. I kept it on cruise for 75 most of the time, but once or twice I took it off, and all of a sudden found myself doing 85! And the ride was smoooth! One other thing: one night at the B&B I stayed at I parked in their lot, got out and started to walk to the inn. Something made me turn around and that's when I noticed: including mine, there were 3 Outbacks parked side by side! What a sight! Only one problem: no more film in the camera! Maybe next time.

    It definetly takes a road trip to make you realize just how nicely put together the Outback is. The car rode magnificently!

    Mark

    PS Juice, I did notice a lot of Subaru's all over Rhode Island!
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Do you mean you had no film to begin with, or you burned all your film taking photos of the 3 Outbacks side-by-side?

    ;-)

    -juice
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    soon2bsubeesoon2bsubee Member Posts: 137
    FYI, The Hurricane was just built this past year...I watched it go up, which is a pretty cool site...anyway, I'm glad you had a nice time...all of you, when you head this way, let me know ahead of time..we can try to get together..maybe Susan will let me drive the Subie!!!

    P.S. I am a roller coaster CHICKEN...never been on one, though I eventualy plan on that road by starting with Thunder Mountain Railroad at Disney World

    My Mikey will be jealous that you went on the go-karts...he loves them..he asked me if he was tall enough yet to go by himself (not yet)
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Stupid #&*$ing policy.

    They just announced that we're allowed to leave early if we feel it would make it safer for us to get home. DOH!

    I'm DOOMED never to get another snow day off again!

    This is perhaps the biggest drawback every Subaru has.

    That's it. I'm lying. Oh no! I drove the Miata today (never mind that it's in the shop!).

    -juice
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