Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations

ab348 · September 2019

I see the two brands as quite different. Hyundai is their mainstream vanilla brand, with mostly conventional styling and generally nothing too edgy. Kia is a bit different, taking more chances with styling and offering a less mainstream image. I would quite possibly buy a Kia in the right circumstances. I cannot see myself ever buying a Hyundai.

It therefore should not be surprising that I much prefer the Kia Telluride to the Hyundai Palisade.

graphicguy · September 2019

snakeweasel said:
what say you?
https://www.spartanburgchryslerdodgejeep.com/new/Dodge/2019-Dodge-Charger-Spartanburg-c6b3392a0a0e0ae9288f411fe10e080c.htm?utm_campaign=deeplink&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=cars.com&utm_campaign=deeplink&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=cars.com

Someone’s been watching way too many Fast and Loud episodes. I feel about this the same way I feel about those who do a total chrome wrap.
BLECH!

driver100 · September 2019

We are off to see family in Victoria B.C. Will be back on Tuesday. I don't think I can log on using my tablet, tried with a different account etc., so I should be back soon...I will be able to read, BUT, Sorry, can't comment

You will have to try and manage without me.

abacomike · September 2019

driver100 said:
We are off to see family in Victoria B.C. Will be back on Tuesday. I don't think I can log on using my tablet, tried with a different account etc., so I should be back soon...I will be able to read, BUT, Sorry, can't comment
You will have to try and manage without me.

What a loss - I hope we all can manage without your 2500 word posts. It will be difficult - but we will try! 😜🤪😛😩😟😗

laurasdada · September 2019

abacomike said:
Today, we were inundated with rain and wind as another tropical wave moves toward Florida and the northern Bahamas. I was driving on the Turnpike north and had to pull over it was raining so hard. It’s supposed to continue like this through Sunday. Ahhh, summer in South Florida! 🤪😜😗

Arriving next Thursday night, Mike. Please have the proper weather arranged. Thank you.

fintail · September 2019

I've long seen Hyunkia with that exact relationship. Kia started as a bargain basement alternative, but developed into something with a little more style, and not based on price alone. Right now, I prefer Kia design to Hyundai for most of their cars.

ab348 said:
I see the two brands as quite different. Hyundai is their mainstream vanilla brand, with mostly conventional styling and generally nothing too edgy. Kia is a bit different, taking more chances with styling and offering a less mainstream image. I would quite possibly buy a Kia in the right circumstances. I cannot see myself ever buying a Hyundai.

It therefore should not be surprising that I much prefer the Kia Telluride to the Hyundai Palisade.

fintail · September 2019

I hope you like rain.

driver100 said:
We are off to see family in Victoria B.C. Will be back on Tuesday. I don't think I can log on using my tablet, tried with a different account etc., so I should be back soon...I will be able to read, BUT, Sorry, can't comment
You will have to try and manage without me.

stickguy · September 2019

Kia to Hyundai. Might be like Pontiac to Chevy at one point.

ab348 · September 2019

driver100 said:
We are off to see family in Victoria B.C. Will be back on Tuesday. I don't think I can log on using my tablet, tried with a different account etc., so I should be back soon...I will be able to read, BUT, Sorry, can't comment
You will have to try and manage without me.

We look forward to a full report upon your return of the vagaries of automatic car washes in Victoria. :laughing:

venture · September 2019

I just got home from the baseball field and there was a UPS truck sitting near the front of my garage. I was expecting 50 pound bags of grass seed.

When I got out of the car I noticed it was a young girl driving the truck. I offered to help with the seed, but she wouldn't have it. She even put one box in my trunk.

She probably only weighed a little over a hundred pounds herself.

ab348 · September 2019

venture said:
I just got home from the baseball field and there was a UPS truck sitting near the front of my garage. I was expecting 50 pound bags of grass seed.

When I got out of the car I noticed it was a young girl driving the truck. I offered to help with the seed, but she wouldn't have it. She even put one box in my trunk.

She probably only weighed a little over a hundred pounds herself.

I guess Pa. is a couple of weeks behind us in the onset of cool weather. I was thinking of trying to rehab my front lawn yet again but I am not sure I have enough time. I tried the same with a section of my backyard around this time last year and there wasn't enough warm weather left for it to really get going.

My front lawn is a real mystery. I normally don't have trouble growing grass from seed. But on the front of my house there is a smallish lawn and short bank going down to the sidewalk. It is separated into halves by the front walk, each section being maybe 20' wide and 15' deep. The bank is at about a 45 degree angle and is about 3' in height, so it isn't a huge area. It faces west so it gets lots of afternoon sun.

The flat sections of lawn were always mediocre to OK. One side got weed-infested a few years ago when weed and feed products got banned here. After a couple of years of trying to dig them all out I got rid of most of them but it was pretty bare-looking. I bought a bunch of lawn soil to spread around and reseeded. That took, but soon I had new and different weeds take over which I attributed to the soil itself that I used. Soon it was mostly weeds again. Grrr. At the same time I decided seed on the bank would be a wasted effort so I bought sods and resodded there. The sods never really took despite diligent watering and once the hot days of August came they were mostly dead.

Last fall and again early this spring once things thawed out the crows and raccoons in the neighborhood attacked a bunch of properties in the area and absolutely destroyed many lawns. Word was they were going after grubs but I had never seen anything like it in all the years I lived here. Entire sections of turf were just shredded. Parts of my backyard were victimized along with a good chunk of the mostly dead front.

In April I cleaned up all the mess, bought new different lawn soil and reseeded again. This time was strange in that some parts took well but there were small spots where nothing would grow, which certainly were not due to a lack of seed and fertilizer. Regardless, once again when the heat of summer hit, all the new stuff died and once again it looks like crap. This shouldn't be that hard to grow and maintain grass, but I am about to throw in the towel. Maybe hire a landscaping company to try their hand at it, I dunno. I thought of abandoning grass entirely and doing a sort of desert landscape or some such thing but I dunno about that either. It is really frustrating.

venture · September 2019

Mother Nature has her way.

I overseed and re-seed where the turf gets destroyed by the kids playing baseball. We play 19 games a week on the field I maintain so it's a never ending battle.

It's getting chilly at night here now, but still plenty of time to get grass established. I like to do it now so I can use a pre-emergent to stop the crab grass in the Spring.

Using the right fertilizer and watering seems to be the key. I always use starter fertilizer when seeding from scratch. Use straw mulch on top of the seed and fertilizer. Water it pretty good the first time, then lightly once or twice a day after that. Depending on the seed type you use, you should have grass in a week to 2 weeks. Then lightly rake away most of the straw using a plastic rake.

I only use perennial rye. I tried a mixture of perennial rye and Kentucky bluegrass and the bluegrass spread out into areas where I didn't want it. I'm still fighting that battle too.

Make sure you get good seed. I got seed from a local landscaping place for a few years and I ended up with a lot of weeds. I spend a little more money now and get seed for sports turf.

I've had the problem with sections torn up too. I thought it might have been by skunks, but it may have been birds. I used Grub-B-Gone, Bug-B-Gone, or some other bug killer, I forget. If you get rid of the grubs you will get rid of the problem.

ab348 · September 2019

I am highly suspicious of the quality of grass seed I have been buying. I initially used all different types of Scotts products but had very little success and last year even returned some to HD because it did absolutely nothing despite diligent care. So I am off Scotts now except for their starter fertilizer. There are other big-box store seed brands here that seem to be OK and a local seed operation that offers its own blends which people say are good so I might try that next.

Unfortunately all of those bug/grub products are NLA here due to enviro laws which is what makes me wonder if there is a solution. I was actually think of making a weekend trip to Maine where you can still buy them and smuggling a bunch over the border (not really smuggling I guess but I'm not sure if you are allowed to bring them back). Some people smuggle booze, drugs and cigarettes over the border, and I'm worried about lawn products...

oldfarmer50 · September 2019

ab348 said:
I see the two brands as quite different. Hyundai is their mainstream vanilla brand, with mostly conventional styling and generally nothing too edgy. Kia is a bit different, taking more chances with styling and offering a less mainstream image. I would quite possibly buy a Kia in the right circumstances. I cannot see myself ever buying a Hyundai.

It therefore should not be surprising that I much prefer the Kia Telluride to the Hyundai Palisade.

Regarding Kias, I was driving mine this morning and while stopped at a 4 way intersection there was a Kia Soul in all four directions with one behind me for a total of five. I know they say that once you buy a car you tend to notice all the others like yours but that’s amazing.

Maybe the Soul is the new PT Cruiser of the car world.

venture · September 2019

I don't use Scotts except for starter fertilizer and weed & feed.

Oddly enough I order my seed from Home Depot.

https://www.barenbrug.com/

oldfarmer50 · September 2019

venture said:
Mother Nature has her way.

I overseed and re-seed where the turf gets destroyed by the kids playing baseball. We play 19 games a week on the field I maintain so it's a never ending battle.

It's getting chilly at night here now, but still plenty of time to get grass established. I like to do it now so I can use a pre-emergent to stop the crab grass in the Spring.

Using the right fertilizer and watering seems to be the key. I always use starter fertilizer when seeding from scratch. Use straw mulch on top of the seed and fertilizer. Water it pretty good the first time, then lightly once or twice a day after that. Depending on the seed type you use, you should have grass in a week to 2 weeks. Then lightly rake away most of the straw using a plastic rake.

I only use perennial rye. I tried a mixture of perennial rye and Kentucky bluegrass and the bluegrass spread out into areas where I didn't want it. I'm still fighting that battle too.

Make sure you get good seed. I got seed from a local landscaping place for a few years and I ended up with a lot of weeds. I spend a little more money now and get seed for sports turf.

I've had the problem with sections torn up too. I thought it might have been by skunks, but it may have been birds. I used Grub-B-Gone, Bug-B-Gone, or some other bug killer, I forget. If you get rid of the grubs you will get rid of the problem.

Get your soil tested at the garden center or state agricultural station. Sometimes the Ph can be too high or low and the grass can’t take up the nutrients. Something as simple as putting down some powdered limestone might be all you need.

ab348 · September 2019

oldfarmer50 said:

Get your soil tested at the garden center or state agricultural station. Sometimes the Ph can be too high or low and the grass can’t take up the nutrients. Something as simple as putting down some powdered limestone might be all you need.

I spread lawn lime every spring and have every year since I've been here. I used to do weed and feed twice a year but now that it's banned here I just fertilize.

The best year I ever had for my lawn was about 9-10 years ago. One early spring day I stopped into a store here called Zellers which was trying to compete with Walmart (they went out of business) and out front in a makeshift garden center they had a pallet of lawn top dressing material in 40lb bags for what seemed like a very good price, so I bought a dozen or so, whatever I could fit in my car. I had enough to cover the back yard. Spread it and forgot it. Wow, what a result. Within about 10 days I had the earliest, greenest lawn around! Neighbors actually came by and asked me how I did it. Unfortunately I have no idea what was in this stuff (it just looked like dirt) and have never seen it since. I have bought other top dressing products since and none of them worked like this stuff did.

Venture, thanks for those tips.

oldfarmer50 · September 2019

venture said:
I don't use Scotts except for starter fertilizer and weed & feed.

Oddly enough I order my seed from Home Depot.

https://www.barenbrug.com/

There’s not a lot of difference between grass seed. Like gas it’s usually is packaged at the same plant for many different name brands. You might get stuck if your supplier is selling you last year’s seed which has lost some of it’s germination ability.

You could try what they do in sports stadiums and fields. Soak the seed in water overnight then dry it out on paper or cloth. Then spread it as usual. The pre-germination cracks the seed coat and makes germination quicker. Less time for the birds to get at it.

imidazol97 · September 2019

Your lawn may have different soil types in different parts. The humus rich soil may have eroded away on the slopes. Reseeding instructions often show roto tilling the soil to a depth of a few inches and mixing in fresh humus rich materials. You may not be able to do that on the slopes because the loosened soil would erode with rains before the new grass stabilized it. Have you checked into the grass mats with seed in a matrix like they use on highway slopes in this area?

I've used Pennington brand seed from Lowes and other stores with success.

venture · September 2019

oldfarmer50 said:

venture said:
Mother Nature has her way.

I overseed and re-seed where the turf gets destroyed by the kids playing baseball. We play 19 games a week on the field I maintain so it's a never ending battle.

It's getting chilly at night here now, but still plenty of time to get grass established. I like to do it now so I can use a pre-emergent to stop the crab grass in the Spring.

Using the right fertilizer and watering seems to be the key. I always use starter fertilizer when seeding from scratch. Use straw mulch on top of the seed and fertilizer. Water it pretty good the first time, then lightly once or twice a day after that. Depending on the seed type you use, you should have grass in a week to 2 weeks. Then lightly rake away most of the straw using a plastic rake.

I only use perennial rye. I tried a mixture of perennial rye and Kentucky bluegrass and the bluegrass spread out into areas where I didn't want it. I'm still fighting that battle too.

Make sure you get good seed. I got seed from a local landscaping place for a few years and I ended up with a lot of weeds. I spend a little more money now and get seed for sports turf.

I've had the problem with sections torn up too. I thought it might have been by skunks, but it may have been birds. I used Grub-B-Gone, Bug-B-Gone, or some other bug killer, I forget. If you get rid of the grubs you will get rid of the problem.
Get your soil tested at the garden center or state agricultural station. Sometimes the Ph can be too high or low and the grass can’t take up the nutrients. Something as simple as putting down some powdered limestone might be all you need.

I get it tested about every 2 years. For some odd reason, it never needs any supplements. Good advice for ab though.

venture · September 2019

oldfarmer50 said:

venture said:
I don't use Scotts except for starter fertilizer and weed & feed.

Oddly enough I order my seed from Home Depot.

https://www.barenbrug.com/

There’s not a lot of difference between grass seed. Like gas it’s usually is packaged at the same plant for many different name brands. You might get stuck if your supplier is selling you last year’s seed which has lost some of it’s germination ability.

You could try what they do in sports stadiums and fields. Soak the seed in water overnight then dry it out on paper or cloth. Then spread it as usual. The pre-germination cracks the seed coat and makes germination quicker. Less time for the birds to get at it.

I always read the label.

I don't have any trouble growing grass. It grew on top of a sprinkler head once and the grass blades turned back and forth as the sprinkler did.

venture · September 2019

Is it just me or are more and more females driving pickup trucks every day?

abacomike · September 2019

laurasdada said:

abacomike said:
Today, we were inundated with rain and wind as another tropical wave moves toward Florida and the northern Bahamas. I was driving on the Turnpike north and had to pull over it was raining so hard. It’s supposed to continue like this through Sunday. Ahhh, summer in South Florida! 🤪😜😗
Arriving next Thursday night, Mike. Please have the proper weather arranged. Thank you.

We are now experiencing heavy winds and rain which are expected to continue through Monday due to this Humberto Tropical Storm currently affecting the northern Bahamas - those poor people over there on the Abacos. Behind this one, there are two more tropical waves currenly moving toward us in the eastern Atlantic Ocean. I think we have used up all our luck and might finally get indundated.

So I hope your trip in is uneventful between all these storms.

tjc78 · September 2019

Friday night fun.... helping my son with this.

oldfarmer50 · September 2019

tjc78 said:
Friday night fun.... helping my son with this.

Is that a martini on the right? You’ll need at least two more for that project.

imidazol97 · September 2019

tjc78 said:
Friday night fun.... helping my son with this.

Is your son old enough to drink that martini?

Is that martini what the sign saying "Warning: Choking hazard" is talking about? They always made me choke; not my kind of drink. Grasshoppers were better.

imidazol97 · September 2019

Since 100 is not here, I'll pass along my good samaritan story. I was driving along a park that has a narrow road on the side of a hill above the river. I come around the last bend where the road leaves the river and meet a full sized semi truck sitting in the road in this park area.

He said his GPS brought him here. He should have turned right about 2 miles back on the main highway. Instead he had turned left onto a scenic road and had gone about a mile on the road getting narrower with no where to turn around.

I told him the road ahead was narrow for two cars but he should be okay--it is a county road rather than township road. I told him it opens out and turns along the interstate. Dead ends. Take a left. That goes .75 miles and dead ends. Make a left. Make at right at the light with the cemetery and church. Then he would see the signs for the P&G warehouses.

He was really relieved to know he wasn't going to have to back up almost a mile.

I'm still trying to figure out how he missed the signs at the stoplight for P&G the first time. And how did he decide based on GPS to turn onto a narrow side road. I suspect the GPS showed the road that angles onto the side road he took as a 90 degree turn and he thought he could get back to the main road. But that is a very sharp turn in a car. Can't be done in a semi.

abacomike · September 2019

imidazol97 said:
Since 100 is not here, I'll pass along my good samaritan story. I was driving along a park that has a narrow road on the side of a hill above the river. I come around the last bend where the road leaves the river and meet a full sized semi truck sitting in the road in this park area.

He said his GPS brought him here. He should have turned right about 2 miles back on the main highway. Instead he had turned left onto a scenic road and had gone about a mile on the road getting narrower with no where to turn around.

I told him the road ahead was narrow for two cars but he should be okay--it is a county road rather than township road. I told him it opens out and turns along the interstate. Dead ends. Take a left. That goes .75 miles and dead ends. Make a left. Make at right at the light with the cemetery and church. Then he would see the signs for the P&G warehouses.

He was really relieved to know he wasn't going to have to back up almost a mile.

I'm still trying to figure out how he missed the signs at the stoplight for P&G the first time. And how did he decide based on GPS to turn onto a narrow side road. I suspect the GPS showed the road that angles onto the side road he took as a 90 degree turn and he thought he could get back to the main road. But that is a very sharp turn in a car. Can't be done in a semi.

I knew someone would fill driver100’s place during his absence. Not quite as long a post as his are, but close! 🤪😜😝😛😗😀😋

tjc78 · September 2019

Ha ha .. didn’t even realize the Martini was in the picture.

In the end I had a happy son with a fully built set.

He started it and was doing well then asked for help.

graphicguy · September 2019

tjc78 said:
Friday night fun.... helping my son with this.

One of the favorite things my son loved to do with me when he was a young’un. Truth told, I loved doing it with him, too!

roadburner · September 2019

tjc78 said:
Friday night fun.... helping my son with this.

Enjoy it! The time I spent building Lego projects and scale models with my son are some of my fondest memories.

roadburner · September 2019

venture said:
I don't use Scotts except for starter fertilizer and weed & feed.

Oddly enough I order my seed from Home Depot.

https://www.barenbrug.com/

I just hope what grass I have doesn't grow very much so I don't have to mow it.

stickguy · September 2019

Drinking Martinis?

Progressive dad!

snakeweasel · September 2019

tjc78 said:
Ha ha .. didn’t even realize the Martini was in the picture.

In the end I had a happy son with a fully built set.

He started it and was doing well then asked for help.

Next time call us to come over and we'll come and help.....

...drink those martinis.

andres3 · September 2019

oldfarmer50 said:

snakeweasel said:

ronsteve said:

suydam said:

driver100 said:
Are there people who actually want CVTs?
My friend who has to be very careful of his spending bought a 2017 Camry. He chose it because he doesn't want a CVT.
I guess they get better mileage, and maybe are simpler to make, but, does anyone actually prefer them?
It depends on the CVT. The one in my Honda Accord was so unobtrusive I never even thought about it. And talk about great mileage! So yeah, I’d prefer that. The Subaru Outback CVT is also very quiet and works well. All the Nissan’s I’ve driven with CVTs are very noisy revving up, and then quiet once they get up to speed. I found that initial noise obnoxious, so no, I wouldn’t want one of those. So put me in the camp who doesn’t hate CVTs just on General Principles. I do like good mpg and if a good CVT helped achieve that, I’m all for it. I think the Chevy Volt has a CVT transmission — I’ve driven it for 3 years now and never even thought about it. I would prefer the Volt to almost any affordable alternative (Tesla being out of my price range).
I'm sure at some point I'll go to some sort of hybrid which will probably have a CVT, but for now I strongly prefer real gears. That said, some CVTs are better than others. Nissan CVTs aren't terrible in the Murano (must be something about having decent power) but in the Altima they're a crappy driving experience and the Rogue is much worse. A long weekend trip to Niagara Falls with a rented Rogue last year almost made me cross ANYthing with a CVT off my shopping list. Subaru's CVT in the Outback isn't bad, and I didn't actually dismiss it out of hand.
I do believe that Hyundai is using dual clutch transmissions in their hybrids.
Those aren’t exactly trouble free either. Ford got in trouble with them. Chrysler, from what I hear, had so much trouble perfecting them they gave up.

My Kia had a dual clutch performance version trim with a turbo 1.6L. I opted not to consider that because of horror stories I’d heard about other brands.

Proper dual clutches are getting known to be ultra robust transmissions. There have been issues here and there, but the durability is excellent.

oldfarmer50 · September 2019

Well, boy am I not going to buy a 59’ Chevy now. Thanks Consumer Reports.

https://youtu.be/fPF4fBGNK0U

When you look at 1:02 you have to wonder if 50 years of rust has compromised the Bel Air.

oldfarmer50 · September 2019

andres3 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

snakeweasel said:

ronsteve said:

suydam said:

driver100 said:
Are there people who actually want CVTs?
My friend who has to be very careful of his spending bought a 2017 Camry. He chose it because he doesn't want a CVT.
I guess they get better mileage, and maybe are simpler to make, but, does anyone actually prefer them?
It depends on the CVT. The one in my Honda Accord was so unobtrusive I never even thought about it. And talk about great mileage! So yeah, I’d prefer that. The Subaru Outback CVT is also very quiet and works well. All the Nissan’s I’ve driven with CVTs are very noisy revving up, and then quiet once they get up to speed. I found that initial noise obnoxious, so no, I wouldn’t want one of those. So put me in the camp who doesn’t hate CVTs just on General Principles. I do like good mpg and if a good CVT helped achieve that, I’m all for it. I think the Chevy Volt has a CVT transmission — I’ve driven it for 3 years now and never even thought about it. I would prefer the Volt to almost any affordable alternative (Tesla being out of my price range).
I'm sure at some point I'll go to some sort of hybrid which will probably have a CVT, but for now I strongly prefer real gears. That said, some CVTs are better than others. Nissan CVTs aren't terrible in the Murano (must be something about having decent power) but in the Altima they're a crappy driving experience and the Rogue is much worse. A long weekend trip to Niagara Falls with a rented Rogue last year almost made me cross ANYthing with a CVT off my shopping list. Subaru's CVT in the Outback isn't bad, and I didn't actually dismiss it out of hand.
I do believe that Hyundai is using dual clutch transmissions in their hybrids.
Those aren’t exactly trouble free either. Ford got in trouble with them. Chrysler, from what I hear, had so much trouble perfecting them they gave up.

My Kia had a dual clutch performance version trim with a turbo 1.6L. I opted not to consider that because of horror stories I’d heard about other brands.
Proper dual clutches are getting known to be ultra robust transmissions. There have been issues here and there, but the durability is excellent.

My sentimental favorite Mitsubishi had a dual clutch in the Evo I believe. It would have to be robust for that application.

I’m not opposed to the concept but rather the execution. Hard to know who does it right. I wouldn’t want to buy a car and then find out the DC was one of the trouble prone designs years later.

stickguy · September 2019

my Elantra had one and it was great. Same for the one in the TLX. A bit different feel to it, but both work really well.

andres3 · September 2019

oldfarmer50 said:

andres3 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

snakeweasel said:

ronsteve said:

suydam said:

driver100 said:
Are there people who actually want CVTs?
My friend who has to be very careful of his spending bought a 2017 Camry. He chose it because he doesn't want a CVT.
I guess they get better mileage, and maybe are simpler to make, but, does anyone actually prefer them?
It depends on the CVT. The one in my Honda Accord was so unobtrusive I never even thought about it. And talk about great mileage! So yeah, I’d prefer that. The Subaru Outback CVT is also very quiet and works well. All the Nissan’s I’ve driven with CVTs are very noisy revving up, and then quiet once they get up to speed. I found that initial noise obnoxious, so no, I wouldn’t want one of those. So put me in the camp who doesn’t hate CVTs just on General Principles. I do like good mpg and if a good CVT helped achieve that, I’m all for it. I think the Chevy Volt has a CVT transmission — I’ve driven it for 3 years now and never even thought about it. I would prefer the Volt to almost any affordable alternative (Tesla being out of my price range).
I'm sure at some point I'll go to some sort of hybrid which will probably have a CVT, but for now I strongly prefer real gears. That said, some CVTs are better than others. Nissan CVTs aren't terrible in the Murano (must be something about having decent power) but in the Altima they're a crappy driving experience and the Rogue is much worse. A long weekend trip to Niagara Falls with a rented Rogue last year almost made me cross ANYthing with a CVT off my shopping list. Subaru's CVT in the Outback isn't bad, and I didn't actually dismiss it out of hand.
I do believe that Hyundai is using dual clutch transmissions in their hybrids.
Those aren’t exactly trouble free either. Ford got in trouble with them. Chrysler, from what I hear, had so much trouble perfecting them they gave up.

My Kia had a dual clutch performance version trim with a turbo 1.6L. I opted not to consider that because of horror stories I’d heard about other brands.
Proper dual clutches are getting known to be ultra robust transmissions. There have been issues here and there, but the durability is excellent.
My sentimental favorite Mitsubishi had a dual clutch in the Evo I believe. It would have to be robust for that application.

I’m not opposed to the concept but rather the execution. Hard to know who does it right. I wouldn’t want to buy a car and then find out the DC was one of the trouble prone designs years later.

Audi's found a way to put dual clutches in R8's, I think it can be done at any power level then.

venture · September 2019

oldfarmer50 said:
Well, boy am I not going to buy a 59’ Chevy now. Thanks Consumer Reports.

When you look at 1:02 you have to wonder if 50 years of rust has compromised the Bel Air.

That looks more like an Impala.

qbrozen · September 2019

andres3 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

andres3 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

snakeweasel said:

ronsteve said:

suydam said:

driver100 said:
Are there people who actually want CVTs?
My friend who has to be very careful of his spending bought a 2017 Camry. He chose it because he doesn't want a CVT.
I guess they get better mileage, and maybe are simpler to make, but, does anyone actually prefer them?
It depends on the CVT. The one in my Honda Accord was so unobtrusive I never even thought about it. And talk about great mileage! So yeah, I’d prefer that. The Subaru Outback CVT is also very quiet and works well. All the Nissan’s I’ve driven with CVTs are very noisy revving up, and then quiet once they get up to speed. I found that initial noise obnoxious, so no, I wouldn’t want one of those. So put me in the camp who doesn’t hate CVTs just on General Principles. I do like good mpg and if a good CVT helped achieve that, I’m all for it. I think the Chevy Volt has a CVT transmission — I’ve driven it for 3 years now and never even thought about it. I would prefer the Volt to almost any affordable alternative (Tesla being out of my price range).
I'm sure at some point I'll go to some sort of hybrid which will probably have a CVT, but for now I strongly prefer real gears. That said, some CVTs are better than others. Nissan CVTs aren't terrible in the Murano (must be something about having decent power) but in the Altima they're a crappy driving experience and the Rogue is much worse. A long weekend trip to Niagara Falls with a rented Rogue last year almost made me cross ANYthing with a CVT off my shopping list. Subaru's CVT in the Outback isn't bad, and I didn't actually dismiss it out of hand.
I do believe that Hyundai is using dual clutch transmissions in their hybrids.
Those aren’t exactly trouble free either. Ford got in trouble with them. Chrysler, from what I hear, had so much trouble perfecting them they gave up.

My Kia had a dual clutch performance version trim with a turbo 1.6L. I opted not to consider that because of horror stories I’d heard about other brands.
Proper dual clutches are getting known to be ultra robust transmissions. There have been issues here and there, but the durability is excellent.
My sentimental favorite Mitsubishi had a dual clutch in the Evo I believe. It would have to be robust for that application.

I’m not opposed to the concept but rather the execution. Hard to know who does it right. I wouldn’t want to buy a car and then find out the DC was one of the trouble prone designs years later.
Audi's found a way to put dual clutches in R8's, I think it can be done at any power level then.

Not to mention Porsches, including the 911 Turbo S that hits 60 mph in under 3 secs. Yeah, pretty sure they got these DCTs dialed in.

oldfarmer50 · September 2019

qbrozen said:

andres3 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

andres3 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

snakeweasel said:

ronsteve said:

suydam said:

driver100 said:
Are there people who actually want CVTs?
My friend who has to be very careful of his spending bought a 2017 Camry. He chose it because he doesn't want a CVT.
I guess they get better mileage, and maybe are simpler to make, but, does anyone actually prefer them?
It depends on the CVT. The one in my Honda Accord was so unobtrusive I never even thought about it. And talk about great mileage! So yeah, I’d prefer that. The Subaru Outback CVT is also very quiet and works well. All the Nissan’s I’ve driven with CVTs are very noisy revving up, and then quiet once they get up to speed. I found that initial noise obnoxious, so no, I wouldn’t want one of those. So put me in the camp who doesn’t hate CVTs just on General Principles. I do like good mpg and if a good CVT helped achieve that, I’m all for it. I think the Chevy Volt has a CVT transmission — I’ve driven it for 3 years now and never even thought about it. I would prefer the Volt to almost any affordable alternative (Tesla being out of my price range).
I'm sure at some point I'll go to some sort of hybrid which will probably have a CVT, but for now I strongly prefer real gears. That said, some CVTs are better than others. Nissan CVTs aren't terrible in the Murano (must be something about having decent power) but in the Altima they're a crappy driving experience and the Rogue is much worse. A long weekend trip to Niagara Falls with a rented Rogue last year almost made me cross ANYthing with a CVT off my shopping list. Subaru's CVT in the Outback isn't bad, and I didn't actually dismiss it out of hand.
I do believe that Hyundai is using dual clutch transmissions in their hybrids.
Those aren’t exactly trouble free either. Ford got in trouble with them. Chrysler, from what I hear, had so much trouble perfecting them they gave up.

My Kia had a dual clutch performance version trim with a turbo 1.6L. I opted not to consider that because of horror stories I’d heard about other brands.
Proper dual clutches are getting known to be ultra robust transmissions. There have been issues here and there, but the durability is excellent.
My sentimental favorite Mitsubishi had a dual clutch in the Evo I believe. It would have to be robust for that application.

I’m not opposed to the concept but rather the execution. Hard to know who does it right. I wouldn’t want to buy a car and then find out the DC was one of the trouble prone designs years later.
Audi's found a way to put dual clutches in R8's, I think it can be done at any power level then.
Not to mention Porsches, including the 911 Turbo S that hits 60 mph in under 3 secs. Yeah, pretty sure they got these DCTs dialed in.

When Audi and a Porsche use a reliable DC and sell their cars for $18k like Ford did I’ll buy one.

BTW, I just read that a judge rejected a settlement offer a Ford made for those bad transmissions. That fiasco might end up costing them billions.

qbrozen · September 2019

oldfarmer50 said:

qbrozen said:

andres3 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

andres3 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

snakeweasel said:

ronsteve said:

suydam said:

driver100 said:
Are there people who actually want CVTs?
My friend who has to be very careful of his spending bought a 2017 Camry. He chose it because he doesn't want a CVT.
I guess they get better mileage, and maybe are simpler to make, but, does anyone actually prefer them?
It depends on the CVT. The one in my Honda Accord was so unobtrusive I never even thought about it. And talk about great mileage! So yeah, I’d prefer that. The Subaru Outback CVT is also very quiet and works well. All the Nissan’s I’ve driven with CVTs are very noisy revving up, and then quiet once they get up to speed. I found that initial noise obnoxious, so no, I wouldn’t want one of those. So put me in the camp who doesn’t hate CVTs just on General Principles. I do like good mpg and if a good CVT helped achieve that, I’m all for it. I think the Chevy Volt has a CVT transmission — I’ve driven it for 3 years now and never even thought about it. I would prefer the Volt to almost any affordable alternative (Tesla being out of my price range).
I'm sure at some point I'll go to some sort of hybrid which will probably have a CVT, but for now I strongly prefer real gears. That said, some CVTs are better than others. Nissan CVTs aren't terrible in the Murano (must be something about having decent power) but in the Altima they're a crappy driving experience and the Rogue is much worse. A long weekend trip to Niagara Falls with a rented Rogue last year almost made me cross ANYthing with a CVT off my shopping list. Subaru's CVT in the Outback isn't bad, and I didn't actually dismiss it out of hand.
I do believe that Hyundai is using dual clutch transmissions in their hybrids.
Those aren’t exactly trouble free either. Ford got in trouble with them. Chrysler, from what I hear, had so much trouble perfecting them they gave up.

My Kia had a dual clutch performance version trim with a turbo 1.6L. I opted not to consider that because of horror stories I’d heard about other brands.
Proper dual clutches are getting known to be ultra robust transmissions. There have been issues here and there, but the durability is excellent.
My sentimental favorite Mitsubishi had a dual clutch in the Evo I believe. It would have to be robust for that application.

I’m not opposed to the concept but rather the execution. Hard to know who does it right. I wouldn’t want to buy a car and then find out the DC was one of the trouble prone designs years later.
Audi's found a way to put dual clutches in R8's, I think it can be done at any power level then.
Not to mention Porsches, including the 911 Turbo S that hits 60 mph in under 3 secs. Yeah, pretty sure they got these DCTs dialed in.
When Audi and a Porsche use a reliable DC and sell their cars for $18k like Ford did I’ll buy one.

BTW, I just read that a judge rejected a settlement offer a Ford made for those bad transmissions. That fiasco might end up costing them billions.

Ummmm...
“Reliable DC...like ford did.... settlement offer Ford made for those bad transmissions.”

Hmmmm...

oldfarmer50 · September 2019

qbrozen said:

oldfarmer50 said:

qbrozen said:

andres3 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

andres3 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

snakeweasel said:

ronsteve said:

suydam said:

driver100 said:
Are there people who actually want CVTs?
My friend who has to be very careful of his spending bought a 2017 Camry. He chose it because he doesn't want a CVT.
I guess they get better mileage, and maybe are simpler to make, but, does anyone actually prefer them?
It depends on the CVT. The one in my Honda Accord was so unobtrusive I never even thought about it. And talk about great mileage! So yeah, I’d prefer that. The Subaru Outback CVT is also very quiet and works well. All the Nissan’s I’ve driven with CVTs are very noisy revving up, and then quiet once they get up to speed. I found that initial noise obnoxious, so no, I wouldn’t want one of those. So put me in the camp who doesn’t hate CVTs just on General Principles. I do like good mpg and if a good CVT helped achieve that, I’m all for it. I think the Chevy Volt has a CVT transmission — I’ve driven it for 3 years now and never even thought about it. I would prefer the Volt to almost any affordable alternative (Tesla being out of my price range).
I'm sure at some point I'll go to some sort of hybrid which will probably have a CVT, but for now I strongly prefer real gears. That said, some CVTs are better than others. Nissan CVTs aren't terrible in the Murano (must be something about having decent power) but in the Altima they're a crappy driving experience and the Rogue is much worse. A long weekend trip to Niagara Falls with a rented Rogue last year almost made me cross ANYthing with a CVT off my shopping list. Subaru's CVT in the Outback isn't bad, and I didn't actually dismiss it out of hand.
I do believe that Hyundai is using dual clutch transmissions in their hybrids.
Those aren’t exactly trouble free either. Ford got in trouble with them. Chrysler, from what I hear, had so much trouble perfecting them they gave up.

My Kia had a dual clutch performance version trim with a turbo 1.6L. I opted not to consider that because of horror stories I’d heard about other brands.
Proper dual clutches are getting known to be ultra robust transmissions. There have been issues here and there, but the durability is excellent.
My sentimental favorite Mitsubishi had a dual clutch in the Evo I believe. It would have to be robust for that application.

I’m not opposed to the concept but rather the execution. Hard to know who does it right. I wouldn’t want to buy a car and then find out the DC was one of the trouble prone designs years later.
Audi's found a way to put dual clutches in R8's, I think it can be done at any power level then.
Not to mention Porsches, including the 911 Turbo S that hits 60 mph in under 3 secs. Yeah, pretty sure they got these DCTs dialed in.
When Audi and a Porsche use a reliable DC and sell their cars for $18k like Ford did I’ll buy one.

BTW, I just read that a judge rejected a settlement offer a Ford made for those bad transmissions. That fiasco might end up costing them billions.
Ummmm...
“Reliable DC...like ford did.... settlement offer Ford made for those bad transmissions.”

Hmmmm...

What I was trying to say was that it’s easier to develop and execute a reliable DC system when you’re charging Audi or Porsche prices. At Ford Fiesta prices corners are inevitably cut. To an extent I think that’s always been a problem when non premium manufacturers try to adopt new tech.

Incidentally, I understand that Ford resolved many of their DC problems after 2016. If true, it might be possible to pick up a bargain in a Focus or Fiesta as owners and dealers dump the 17’ plus models.

I always liked the way the Focus drove and was sorry to see it go.

oldfarmer50 · September 2019

Might be time to gas up all your cars. The news is reporting a terror attack at Saudi oil facilities involving up to 10% of their production. While the US is pretty energy independent such disruptions of the international system usually leads suppliers to jacking up prices everywhere.

bwia · September 2019

Cadillac. Another sad story....as an excerpt from the NY Times explains:

"And despite all the accolades Super Cruise has garnered, G.M. is doing little to take advantage of the technology. It is available only on the slow-selling CT6, as part of an options package that pushes the price to $78,000. The car’s sales have fallen 60 percent this year, and G.M. is considering halting production in January.

The system will become available in a smaller sedan next year, the CT5. But S.U.V. models won’t get Super Cruise for another two years or so. That means the brand’s signature technology won’t be on its most popular models for some time." https://www.nytimes.com/section/automobiles

qbrozen · September 2019

oldfarmer50 said:

qbrozen said:

oldfarmer50 said:

qbrozen said:

andres3 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

andres3 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

snakeweasel said:

ronsteve said:

suydam said:

driver100 said:
Are there people who actually want CVTs?
My friend who has to be very careful of his spending bought a 2017 Camry. He chose it because he doesn't want a CVT.
I guess they get better mileage, and maybe are simpler to make, but, does anyone actually prefer them?
It depends on the CVT. The one in my Honda Accord was so unobtrusive I never even thought about it. And talk about great mileage! So yeah, I’d prefer that. The Subaru Outback CVT is also very quiet and works well. All the Nissan’s I’ve driven with CVTs are very noisy revving up, and then quiet once they get up to speed. I found that initial noise obnoxious, so no, I wouldn’t want one of those. So put me in the camp who doesn’t hate CVTs just on General Principles. I do like good mpg and if a good CVT helped achieve that, I’m all for it. I think the Chevy Volt has a CVT transmission — I’ve driven it for 3 years now and never even thought about it. I would prefer the Volt to almost any affordable alternative (Tesla being out of my price range).
I'm sure at some point I'll go to some sort of hybrid which will probably have a CVT, but for now I strongly prefer real gears. That said, some CVTs are better than others. Nissan CVTs aren't terrible in the Murano (must be something about having decent power) but in the Altima they're a crappy driving experience and the Rogue is much worse. A long weekend trip to Niagara Falls with a rented Rogue last year almost made me cross ANYthing with a CVT off my shopping list. Subaru's CVT in the Outback isn't bad, and I didn't actually dismiss it out of hand.
I do believe that Hyundai is using dual clutch transmissions in their hybrids.
Those aren’t exactly trouble free either. Ford got in trouble with them. Chrysler, from what I hear, had so much trouble perfecting them they gave up.

My Kia had a dual clutch performance version trim with a turbo 1.6L. I opted not to consider that because of horror stories I’d heard about other brands.
Proper dual clutches are getting known to be ultra robust transmissions. There have been issues here and there, but the durability is excellent.
My sentimental favorite Mitsubishi had a dual clutch in the Evo I believe. It would have to be robust for that application.

I’m not opposed to the concept but rather the execution. Hard to know who does it right. I wouldn’t want to buy a car and then find out the DC was one of the trouble prone designs years later.
Audi's found a way to put dual clutches in R8's, I think it can be done at any power level then.
Not to mention Porsches, including the 911 Turbo S that hits 60 mph in under 3 secs. Yeah, pretty sure they got these DCTs dialed in.
When Audi and a Porsche use a reliable DC and sell their cars for $18k like Ford did I’ll buy one.

BTW, I just read that a judge rejected a settlement offer a Ford made for those bad transmissions. That fiasco might end up costing them billions.
Ummmm...
“Reliable DC...like ford did.... settlement offer Ford made for those bad transmissions.”

Hmmmm...
What I was trying to say was that it’s easier to develop and execute a reliable DC system when you’re charging Audi or Porsche prices. At Ford Fiesta prices corners are inevitably cut. To an extent I think that’s always been a problem when non premium manufacturers try to adopt new tech.

Incidentally, I understand that Ford resolved many of their DC problems after 2016. If true, it might be possible to pick up a bargain in a Focus or Fiesta as owners and dealers dump the 17’ plus models.

I always liked the way the Focus drove and was sorry to see it go.

Ah. Yes. Well, Ford made the mistake of starting on the cheap car, which FORCED them to cut corners. It is far easier to bury those R&D costs on a premium car. At the very least, I think Ford could have worked it into the Mustang R&D budget.

ab348 · September 2019

What seemed to really cause problems with the Ford DCT is that it was rushed into production before the engineers were allowed to figure out how to fix it, who had seen in development testing that its performance was unacceptable. Ford's top management were determined not to miss the launch date for the Focus and decided to override the protests of those involved in the development of the transmission.

snakeweasel · September 2019

qbrozen said:

andres3 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

andres3 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

snakeweasel said:

ronsteve said:

suydam said:

driver100 said:
Are there people who actually want CVTs?
My friend who has to be very careful of his spending bought a 2017 Camry. He chose it because he doesn't want a CVT.
I guess they get better mileage, and maybe are simpler to make, but, does anyone actually prefer them?
It depends on the CVT. The one in my Honda Accord was so unobtrusive I never even thought about it. And talk about great mileage! So yeah, I’d prefer that. The Subaru Outback CVT is also very quiet and works well. All the Nissan’s I’ve driven with CVTs are very noisy revving up, and then quiet once they get up to speed. I found that initial noise obnoxious, so no, I wouldn’t want one of those. So put me in the camp who doesn’t hate CVTs just on General Principles. I do like good mpg and if a good CVT helped achieve that, I’m all for it. I think the Chevy Volt has a CVT transmission — I’ve driven it for 3 years now and never even thought about it. I would prefer the Volt to almost any affordable alternative (Tesla being out of my price range).
I'm sure at some point I'll go to some sort of hybrid which will probably have a CVT, but for now I strongly prefer real gears. That said, some CVTs are better than others. Nissan CVTs aren't terrible in the Murano (must be something about having decent power) but in the Altima they're a crappy driving experience and the Rogue is much worse. A long weekend trip to Niagara Falls with a rented Rogue last year almost made me cross ANYthing with a CVT off my shopping list. Subaru's CVT in the Outback isn't bad, and I didn't actually dismiss it out of hand.
I do believe that Hyundai is using dual clutch transmissions in their hybrids.
Those aren’t exactly trouble free either. Ford got in trouble with them. Chrysler, from what I hear, had so much trouble perfecting them they gave up.

My Kia had a dual clutch performance version trim with a turbo 1.6L. I opted not to consider that because of horror stories I’d heard about other brands.
Proper dual clutches are getting known to be ultra robust transmissions. There have been issues here and there, but the durability is excellent.
My sentimental favorite Mitsubishi had a dual clutch in the Evo I believe. It would have to be robust for that application.

I’m not opposed to the concept but rather the execution. Hard to know who does it right. I wouldn’t want to buy a car and then find out the DC was one of the trouble prone designs years later.
Audi's found a way to put dual clutches in R8's, I think it can be done at any power level then.
Not to mention Porsches, including the 911 Turbo S that hits 60 mph in under 3 secs. Yeah, pretty sure they got these DCTs dialed in.

I would hope so, Porsche has been working on DCT's since the mid 60's.

oldfarmer50 · September 2019

qbrozen said:

oldfarmer50 said:

qbrozen said:

oldfarmer50 said:

qbrozen said:

andres3 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

andres3 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

snakeweasel said:

ronsteve said:

suydam said:

driver100 said:
Are there people who actually want CVTs?
My friend who has to be very careful of his spending bought a 2017 Camry. He chose it because he doesn't want a CVT.
I guess they get better mileage, and maybe are simpler to make, but, does anyone actually prefer them?
It depends on the CVT. The one in my Honda Accord was so unobtrusive I never even thought about it. And talk about great mileage! So yeah, I’d prefer that. The Subaru Outback CVT is also very quiet and works well. All the Nissan’s I’ve driven with CVTs are very noisy revving up, and then quiet once they get up to speed. I found that initial noise obnoxious, so no, I wouldn’t want one of those. So put me in the camp who doesn’t hate CVTs just on General Principles. I do like good mpg and if a good CVT helped achieve that, I’m all for it. I think the Chevy Volt has a CVT transmission — I’ve driven it for 3 years now and never even thought about it. I would prefer the Volt to almost any affordable alternative (Tesla being out of my price range).
I'm sure at some point I'll go to some sort of hybrid which will probably have a CVT, but for now I strongly prefer real gears. That said, some CVTs are better than others. Nissan CVTs aren't terrible in the Murano (must be something about having decent power) but in the Altima they're a crappy driving experience and the Rogue is much worse. A long weekend trip to Niagara Falls with a rented Rogue last year almost made me cross ANYthing with a CVT off my shopping list. Subaru's CVT in the Outback isn't bad, and I didn't actually dismiss it out of hand.
I do believe that Hyundai is using dual clutch transmissions in their hybrids.
Those aren’t exactly trouble free either. Ford got in trouble with them. Chrysler, from what I hear, had so much trouble perfecting them they gave up.

My Kia had a dual clutch performance version trim with a turbo 1.6L. I opted not to consider that because of horror stories I’d heard about other brands.
Proper dual clutches are getting known to be ultra robust transmissions. There have been issues here and there, but the durability is excellent.
My sentimental favorite Mitsubishi had a dual clutch in the Evo I believe. It would have to be robust for that application.

I’m not opposed to the concept but rather the execution. Hard to know who does it right. I wouldn’t want to buy a car and then find out the DC was one of the trouble prone designs years later.
Audi's found a way to put dual clutches in R8's, I think it can be done at any power level then.
Not to mention Porsches, including the 911 Turbo S that hits 60 mph in under 3 secs. Yeah, pretty sure they got these DCTs dialed in.
When Audi and a Porsche use a reliable DC and sell their cars for $18k like Ford did I’ll buy one.

BTW, I just read that a judge rejected a settlement offer a Ford made for those bad transmissions. That fiasco might end up costing them billions.
Ummmm...
“Reliable DC...like ford did.... settlement offer Ford made for those bad transmissions.”

Hmmmm...
What I was trying to say was that it’s easier to develop and execute a reliable DC system when you’re charging Audi or Porsche prices. At Ford Fiesta prices corners are inevitably cut. To an extent I think that’s always been a problem when non premium manufacturers try to adopt new tech.

Incidentally, I understand that Ford resolved many of their DC problems after 2016. If true, it might be possible to pick up a bargain in a Focus or Fiesta as owners and dealers dump the 17’ plus models.

I always liked the way the Focus drove and was sorry to see it go.
Ah. Yes. Well, Ford made the mistake of starting on the cheap car, which FORCED them to cut corners. It is far easier to bury those R&D costs on a premium car. At the very least, I think Ford could have worked it into the Mustang R&D budget.

That makes a lot of sense.

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