Lease Questions - Ask Here

mond · March 2005

With the Accord LX deale for $200 and the Altima for $200 I would have to be surely broke to take the Ion deal over those :-) Heck, even the Civic "value edition" lease is not but a few bucks cheaper than the LX lease deal.
Dennis

Sorry Dennis but I don't look into peoples pockets. Their pockets are their business. The Ion is the lowest priced lease I've seen, followed by the Civic.

jdhartman · March 2005

Can you help me calculate lease rate on a Toyota Sienna LE (2005) Package #1? I was given the MSRP of $26501. Lease is for 36 months and he told me $2659 due at signing (including all fees - NJ taxes are 6%). Basically, I just don't know the car's residual value.

seden · March 2005

thanks a bunch for your help....one more question. Is it best to buy at the end of the month, or does that really matter? Do you have any idea when this lease special will end? Thanks

hpowders · March 2005

Thank you, Car_Man for all the help with the Infinity M's.
hpowders

pegasus17 · March 2005

I live in Ohio and 3750 is what the dealer quoted me as the lease incentive for a GMAC lease. They quoted me $270/month with nothing down. Seems high to me!

smith83 · March 2005

The Infiniti dealership I am working with does nort have any AWD's on the lot, so I am looking at a RWD, with Journey Package and NAV, with an MSRP of $45,260.00 (I made a typo earlier).

The GS 300 I am looking at is also RWD and has an MSRP of $45,679.00. I have not been successful at getting Lexus to move from the .00275 MF, even though I am qualified for the Tier 1 credit through LFS. How do I combat this?

Can you estimate 24 and 36 month leases for these two vehicles at 15k miles. What other fees should I expect? Amount due at signing, etc.

Thanks a lot!!!

stalnaker · March 2005

Car_Man:

What specials does Saab currently have that could apply to leases? Do you know what dealer cash or special money factors are available on specific models?

Also, can the GM Supplier discount be applied to these deals?

I just want to do a final comparison before I decide on what car I want to lease.....with all of the specials I have been hearing about on Saab's, I thought it would be wise to take a look before dismissing them.

Thanks,

Ernest

dwynne · March 2005

Invoice on that car is about $25,040 - so getting it for $23,686 sounds pretty good. Holdback is a little over $800 so it looks like your price is about $540 UNDER dealer cost - holdback.

car_man can tell you the exact numbers, but Subaru has a published lease special for the GT: 36/36k for $339 with $2,500 cap cost reduction and no security deposit. I would bet that based on your reduced cap cost your payments would be less.

I like the Subaru lineup - and I even have an older Legacy wagon for a snow day car. I just wish they had more upscale features (like NAV) available...

Rule one of leasing is to get a good deal on the cap cost - sounds like you have that one :-)

Dennis

cscowden23 · March 2005

Car_Man, The MDX just seems to be a great deal for $400-430/mo with $0 down. Any other options we should be considering in that same price range?

Chris

kyfdx · March 2005

Car_man..

love330conv is leasing a 330Cic convertible, not a 330Ci.. I think the money factor is .0015, not .0008

Also, BMWFS bumps up the euro-delivery money factor by .0003 now, and then makes up for it by waiving one payment.

regards,
kyfdx

dwynne · March 2005

>> I have not been successful at getting Lexus
>> to move from the .00275 MF, even though I am
>> qualified for the Tier 1 credit through LFS.
>> How do I combat this?

You can wait for the "new" to wear off these cars. Once sales slow and they start stacking up on dealer lots then you will be in a much better position to deal. The new M, new GS, and new RL all seem to be generating lots of interest and are selling well right now. I don't think there are are enough folks shopping for $45-50k cars for them to sell all they are making, so eventually deals can be had.

Have you tried another Lexus dealer? I know they can be far apart but it may be worth a try.

My local BMW dealer, for example, is owned by Sonic Automotive and their finance department has to make a profit on every sale or lease. So they would rather you walked away or got your own financing than give a customer the buy rate. It could be the same with your Lexus dealer - or it could be just greed. They have the car and you want it along with lots of other folks, so no reason to take anything off of MSRP AND they mark up the rate.

BTW, I looked over at leascompare and they are doing 0.00215 MF on the GS300 - but 55% residual. You might run those numbers VS the inflated rate from the Lexus dealer and just do your own lease if it works out cheaper. That will teach the Lexus dealer :-)

Dennis

dwynne · March 2005

>> Also, BMWFS bumps up the euro-delivery money
>> factor by .0003 now, and then makes up for it
>> by waiving one payment

I had not heard of that. So with the waived payment you are not (technically) paying rent on the car while waiting on it to arrive from Europe.

Dennis

kyfdx · March 2005

If you run the numbers, it is basically a wash with the higher money factor.. It might actually cost you a little more in the long run...

But, you'll feel better about it..

oaktons11 · March 2005

Everyone, including myself, is always asking what they should pay for a lease, but you hardly see anyone come back and post what they were able to negotiate. The "Prices Paid & Buying Experiences" section only covers buyers. How about some leasers coming back and letting us know what they were able to get? Then we can have some ballpark figures.

g35-or-bmw · March 2005

Hi Car_man,

Thank you for all of your help. Because of this forum I have become pretty knowledgable about car leases. Please let me know what you think of the following deal that I got on a '05 Infiniti G35 w/ Premium package B, sport package, trunk mat and splash guards.

MSRP: $35740
Selling cost: 33181 ($500 over invoice)
Residual: 60%
Money Factor: .00179
36 months/ 15k miles
Monthly payment before taxes: $423.81

Due on delivery: $1600
Doc Fee $720
License/Title: 23.00
Sales Tax: 43
Security Deposit: 450 and 1st payment

Once again, thank you.

dwynne · March 2005

Carsdirect shows invoice as $32,681 so your cap cost sounds right.

The residual and MF you post is what I have seen as the correct with the "buy rate".

If you pay the acq fee and taxes up front then my lease calculator gets $423.81 w/o taxes.

I assume the "doc fee" of $720 you list is actually the acquisition fee? In any case if you take $423.81 + $450 + $43 + $23 + $720 I get $1,659.81 due at delivery rather than the $1,600 even you show. Other than that, if the $1,600 DOES cover your first month and security, all taxes, and the acq fee then it sounds OK to me. It would make the acq fee $660.19 and I don't recall what the normal fee is for Infiniti....

Sounds like a deal to me.

Dennis

testykaren · March 2005

Car Man,

I am interested in the new Mercedes ml 350/500. do you know the residuals after thirty six thousand miles for these and the money factor?

ar831 · March 2005

Honda has a special advertised lease, it is as follows:

$249.00 per month for 36 months
$1,499.00 capitalized cost reduction.
$2,593.00 total due at lease signing (includes first months payment, security deposit, capitalized cost reduction and AHFC upfront acquisition fee; total net capitalized cost and base monthly payment does not include tax, license, registration, options and the like).

In NY i was told they have to add about $500 more because the NY acquisition fee is about $1095, so my total down payment would be $4500. That includes everything as stated above.

My monthly payments would be $249 but if i add on an insurance if the car is stolen i get my down payment money back the total monthly payments would be $266.

Does all this sound like a good deal? Please let me know ASAP. Thank you in advance!

evan7578 · March 2005

Car_Man -

What is the Money Factor and Residual for a BMW 325 and 330 Convertible on a 12K and 15k lease for 36 months.

Thank you,

mlrtime · March 2005

Car_man,

First post, Thanks for the help/reply. I'm not sure if it will be different, but could you tell me the money factor/residual for a 05 Subaru Legacy GT Wagon with AT? The lease I would like is a 24mo, 12K miles/year. Does Subaru offer a 24mo lease?

The model I'm looking at has a MSRP of $31,964 and a OTD price of $27,690 + (tag,taxes,title). Could you tell me what I can expect the payments for this car to be for 24 mo?

Also, what can I expect as a down payment?

Thanks again for your help,
mlr

mingus · March 2005

I'm looking for residuals and money factors for a 36 month lease on a 4 Runner SR5 RWD in Los Angeles for 12 and 15 thousand miles. Are 24 month leases economically more beneficial than 36? Do the dealers have the ability to make money by changing the residual, or is it TMCC mandated with no flexibility? Sorry if this info is already posted, but can't find it. Thanks in advance for the help.

dwynne · March 2005

Search is your friend :-)

The LX I4 is 0.00038 and 53%

The EX IS is 0.00113 and 54%

The LX V6 is 0.00038 and 51%.

So if you can forgo the alloy wheels and the moonroof of the EX package, the LX is a much better lease deal.

Also, the pre-negotiated lease deal has the dealer making a little over $600. Honda recently started a cash to dealer incentive of UP TO $600 per car and folks are reporting getting new Accords for well under invoice. So there is room to bargain down the cap cost on these deals.

Dennis

ar831 · March 2005

I really want the EX because of the moonroof mainly. Im not a good negotiator, where i would start in negotiating? Should i even bother? Thanks so much for your help!

dwynne · March 2005

You sound like my wife :-) The LX is a better deal lease-wise, but she would prefer the EX with the moonroof....

Where are you located? You might check into the "Honda Accord: Prices Paid" forum here and do a search for other folks in your area and see what they are paying and from whom.

For example, a dealer in NJ is advertising the LX I4 auto for $17,403 + $515 destination + $198 doc fee. My invoice info shows that car as costing the dealer $19,034 so even if they are getting the $600 dealer money I don't see how they can sell the car that cheap. Dealers in the "Chicagoland" area are known to sell under invoice as well.

Dennis

ar831 · March 2005

Dennis,
I am in NYC. I REALLY want the EX =o), so enough talk about the LX ;o). I am moving to another state soon that is warm and sunny so thats why i want my moon roof. Do you think the deal above is good or at least average for the EX? I dont know much about car pricing and negotiating but im willing to learn. Thanks! =o)

dwynne · March 2005

You are in luck, then. Jersey Honda (which seems to also be known as Open Road) in Edison is the one advertising the LX sedans on ebay for below dealer cost. I sent their Internet rep an e-mail to ask what they could do on an EX I4 auto sedan. If they can give you a price below invoice on that one too, that would really sweeten the lease deal - pretty much remove the cap cost reduction in the deal and get the same payment. Or put down the money for an even lower payment.

AHFC will lease in NY, but you pay something like double the acquisition fee the rest of us pay.

One thing to note: some states have a "pay the taxes on a lease up front" law and other states are "pay as you go" (adding the tax to the monthly payment). I am pretty sure NY is monthly - you could get into a tax hassle if you move to another state that wants the taxes up front. Someone posted recently about doing the opposite - they leased in VA or someplace and paid all the taxes up front, then moved to NY and had to pay tax on the lease payment ALSO! Just something to think about.

Also you would save the extra acq fee dollars in any state other than NY....

Dennis

dwynne · March 2005

325ic 36 mo/45k 0.00150 60% (62% for 36k)
330ic 36 mo/45k 0.00150 61% (63% for 36k)

Having driven both, I much prefer the Z4 to the 3 series convertible (if you can stand the looks). The 3 series back seat is not big enough for anyone to ride in anyway :-)

Dennis

dwynne · March 2005

BTW, the "add on insurance" for $17 extra a month does not sound right. Check with your insurance company and ask them about gap coverage on a lease car. My company (State Farm) automatically includes gap converage if you tell them you have a lease car. Some lease banks include it in the lease "for free" as well.

Unless you can't get it elsewhere, it sounds like way too much money for insurance to me - $612 over the life of the lease.

If you deal down the price of the car, you should be OK as far as insurance value VS buyout value anyway. That is the main reason folks always say to pay nothing out of pocket for a lease - if the car is totalled or stolen you lose your "investment".

Dennis

dwynne · March 2005

Suburu has a published lease deal for the GT wagon auto of $418 a month for 24 months/24k miles. $2,500 cap cost reduction, $0 security deposit. So I know they will do the deal, but car_man will have to tell you the MF and residual pct. Usually 3 years is the sweet spot in the lease curve- but you never know until you get the numbers.

Dennis

mlrtime · March 2005

Dennis, thanks for the reply.

I read your previous post of this Legacy lease deal. The only lease offers I see on subaru.com are for the forester, impreza, and baja in my zip (NJ).
Maybe it is not for my zip code, nothing is mentioned about leases on www.cars101.com either.

Thanks,
mlr

dwynne · March 2005

Go to

http://www.edmunds.com/incentives/step1.jsp

and put in your zip and see if it comes up. I tried 08818 and it showed me the same 24 month lease deal.

Dennis

love330conv · March 2005

Thanks kyfdx for clarifying. Yes I am ordering (actually ordered today!) a 330Ci convertible. The dealer has quoted .0018, which is consistent with what you said. I have assumed that this is the base. Dealer is asking for $825 as acq. fee ($200 markup) and $550 as security deposit. Are these 'normal' numbers?

New question: If I have some cash lying around with me, can I use it to pay upfront and reduce cap. cost? Or is there another mechanism to put some cash (say $10k) to good use while leasing?

Thanks to you guys!

kyfdx · March 2005

1) I'd try to get that acq.fee down to $625.

2) The security deposit is your payment rounded up to the next $50 increment..

3) BMW has a "multiple security deposit" program.. In return for making extra MSDs, they will lower the money factor.. I think you can make up to five additional security deposits and each one lowers the money factor by .0005

For example, if you made an extra 5 security deposits ($2750), it would lower the money factor to .00155, saving you about $20/month including tax... Not a bad return on $2750.. about 8-9%.

You get the security deposits back at the end of the lease..

Other than that, just leave your extra money in the bank.. If you make a cap cost reduction, that money is at risk, if the car is stolen or totaled...

Or, just buy the car and use the money as a downpayment?

regards,
kyfdx

ltrain · March 2005

i am interested in leasing a Honda Pilot w\ EX-L pckge and RES
in north NJ for 36 mo\ 15k yr.
i was offered a quote by one dealership for
$1k at sign for $500 mo\ w\tax, and they are willing to pay off the remaining 2 payments on my A4 for $1050.
how does it sound compared to other Pilot leases in my area?
any feedback would be appreciated

brass1 · March 2005

Is a residual of $250 with a cap cost of $5995 a conditional sales contract? And what law does this break

dwynne · March 2005

The guy from Jersey Honda answered my e-mail and said he could sell/lease you the EX I4 auto for under invoice "no problem".

He (of course) wants to seal the deal by the end of the month (don't they all). In this case, the current Honda lease deal expires then - it might be LESS next month, might be the same, might be HIGHER - I have no idea. Honda could discontinue the current dealer money and the price could go up next month too - or they could increase it and the price goes down.

Anyway, send me an e-mail to y2k_c5 (insert at sign here) yahoo.com and I will forward this guy's cell and e-mail info to you if you want to try to pursue it.

The EX lease deals calls for a pre-negotiated price of $21,817.82 - about $600 over what is supposed to be invoice. With a $1499 cap cost redcution the payments are $249/36. Getting the car under invoice (say $20,500) would mean you can put down $181 or so rather than $1499 - which is a heck of a better deal. You could still put down $1499 (I would not) and get the payments a lot lower.

You could also go to carsdirect.com and put in your zip code (I used 10001) and the quote for the I4 EX w/auto is $20,513 from them. It may end up being from the same dealer, or another in the NYC area.

Dennis

andyhiggs · March 2005

Hey Car_man, I just wanted to thank you for all the information you provided me on all of the different cars. Although I don't think I'm a great negotiator it definitely helps to know the MF and residual's on the cars so you can figure out how "screwed" you're getting.

I pulled the trigger this weekend and got a 2005 Nissan Altima 2.5S. It came with the Convenience Plus package, ABS, Side-impact and side curtain airbags, etc. The MSRP was $24,010. I ended up getting a 24 month, 15,000 mile lease for $279/month after tax. I put no money down. My out-of-pocket expense was $470 for the doc. fee and first month's payment. Didn't realize I was getting 15,000 miles each month until I was signing the papers. I didn't bother arguing. Maybe I should've and would've gotten a cheaper deal. Based on the residual of 69% and MF of .00060, if I got the car at invoice I was going to pay $276/month after tax so I felt my payment was good. Think I got a good deal?

love330conv · March 2005

1) I'll try to get the acq fee down to $625. Since I decided to lease as an after thought (after the final price was negotiated and verbally placed the ED order), they may not agree. As such, the salesman says that at $625, the Finance guy at dealership makes NOTHING. I think it's BS, as BMWFS must be giving a portion of base acq fee of $625 back to the dealer for doing the paper work. What do you say?

3) The MSD program is certainly interesting and will make good use of my $2750. 8-9% tax free return is great ! Thanks for informing about it. I hope the dealer cannot say NO to the MSD program.

I agree that reducing cap cost is not worth it (given the risk).

NEW QUESTION: When I thought, all my questions were answered - I seemed to have found a new one! Here it is:
- The MF (.0018) and residual (63%) are for the month of March. For my ED pickup of May 3rd, I need to sign the lease sometime in April. Does it mean I have to somehow "lock" these numbers? Or I have to actually sign lease docs to lock the rate? Or April numbers should be same anyway? Or do we already know April numbers? (I guess not). How does it all work and what would you recommend? Somewhere it was mentioned that I could choose March or May rates. Is that correct? Do we know future numbers?

Thanks as always.

CarMan@Edmunds · March 2005

Hi kkj. If you were to lease a 2005 Honda Odyssey EX-L with the rear entertainment system and navigation through American Honda FInance Corp. right now for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00225 and 53%. These numbers assume that you qualify for its top credit tier and that you pay a security deposit. Using the above numbers, an MSRP of $35,695, and a selling price of $34,240, I estimate that this van should have a zero down, pre-tax monthly payment of around $546.

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CarMan@Edmunds · March 2005

Hello saintebeuve. It doesn't sound as though you will be hit with any lease-end charges for excess wear and tear or excess mileage when you turn your current vehicle in. Of course, the exact guidelines as to what is considered to be excess wear and tear vary from bank to bank. It sounds as though your lease may be through Toyota Financial Services. The following Web page describes its lease-end process: Toyota Financial Services - Returning your vehicle at lease-end.

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CarMan@Edmunds · March 2005

Hey Damon. Here is the information on the vehicle that your friend is interested in. If he or she was to lease a 2005 Volvo XC90 2.5T FWD through Volvo Finance right now for 36 months with 12,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00199 and 59%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical 39 month lease should be .00224 and 56%. The numbers for an otherwise identical 42 month lease should be .00224 and 54%. Lastly, the numbers for an otherwise identical 48 month lease should be .00224 and 50%.

Thanks for offering to stop back and let us all know how your Malibu Maxx deal turns out.

Car_man
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CarMan@Edmunds · March 2005

Hi kicker5454. If you were to lease a 2005 Volvo V50 T5 2WD through Volvo Finance right now for 36 months with 12,000 miles per year, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00185 and 56%, respectively. This is a decent lease program, but nothing to get that excited about. This car's residual value is OK and its money factor is equivalent to an interest rate of around 4.44%.

You never mentioned the selling price or MSRP of the car that you are interested in leasing. These are important number for you as a consumer to know for two reasons. First, the selling prices of leased vehicles can be negotiated, just as if you were paying cash for them. Without knowing this car's selling price in relation to its MSRP you don't know how much of a discount you are getting on it. The second reason is that one needs the selling price and MSRP, including the destination charge, of a vehicle to calculate its lease payment. I would be more than happy to work up a sample lease payment on the car that you are interested in for you if you let me know what these numbers are.

Car_man
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CarMan@Edmunds · March 2005

Sjeed, the deal that you were quoted looks good to me. If you like the car, I don't see any reason not to pull the trigger on this deal.

Car_man
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CarMan@Edmunds · March 2005

Here you go shaker58. If you were to lease a base 2005 Acura MDX through AHFC right now for 3 years with 12,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00196 and 64%, respectively.

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CarMan@Edmunds · March 2005

Hello blue58. Let's calculate a sample lease payment on this car and see what we come up with. According to my calculations, if you were to lease a 2005 Saturn ION 1 Sedan with an MSRP of $14,255 and a capitalized cost of $14,919 through General Motors Acceptance Corp. right now for 39 months with 12,000 miles per year, your zero down, pre-tax monthly payment should be around $140. I arrived at this payment using a lease rate of 0.9% and an unbelievably inflated residual value of 69% to arrive at this payment. I do not believe that Saturn's special lease program does not vary by credit tier, but GMAC would have to run a credit check on you to make sure that you qualify for its lease program. The only area that you could negotiate on this lease is the selling price of this car. Even though traditionally Saturns are no haggle, many Saturn dealers are now willing to negotiate the selling prices of their vehicles. Having said this, there isn't much of a profit margin in the ION 1 Sedan so you probably won't be able to negotiate much of a discount on it, if any.

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CarMan@Edmunds · March 2005

Hey Dennis. AHFC's base lease money factor for all Honda Pilot models is .00154 for leases of up 36 months. Its 36 month, 12,000 miles per residual value for a 2005 Pilot LX should currently be 63%.

Car_man
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CarMan@Edmunds · March 2005

Dennis, you should be able to lease a vehicle from a dealer that is in a different state than the one you live in. They only reason that I could think of that a dealer could not lease a vehicle to an out of state customer is if they live in New York and the bank that they are trying to lease through did not lease to New York residents because of the vicarious liability laws that exist there. Having said this, dealers are not obligated to lease you a vehicle. If for some hard to understand reason they don't want to lease a vehicle to an out of state customer they don't have to.

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CarMan@Edmunds · March 2005

No problem, coffee_fan. I believe that we were discussing how sales tax is calculated on leased vehicles. You may want to try the following sites to see if they contain information on how sales tax is calculated on leases in Washington: Washington Department of Licensing or Washington State Department of Revenue.

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CarMan@Edmunds · March 2005

Love330conv, BMW Financial Services' base lease acquisition fee for residents of every state but New York is currently $625. I am not surprised that the dealer that you are working with is trying to mark BMW FS' acquisition fee up. BMW dealers are notorious for marking up money factors and acquisition fees. If you tell them that you know what BMW's actual fee is and that you will not pay their inflated fee you should be OK.

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CarMan@Edmunds · March 2005

Hey jimbojones. I don't believe that Volvo Finance is leasing 2004 models any longer. Even if one can lease an '04 model through Volvo Finance, it definitely has stopped lease support on them. You may find that the best lease program that is available on the '04 C70 right now is offered through an independent bank. When negotiating your deal on this car, keep in mind that Volvo is providing $5,000 dealer cash on it in most areas to help dealers unload their remaining inventory.

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