Lease Questions - Ask Here

CarMan@Edmunds · March 2005

You're welcome bama12. GMAC's base lease rate on the 2005 Cadillac STS is indeed currently 4.75%. The residual value that you mentioned in your post is correct as well.

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CarMan@Edmunds · March 2005

Don't worry about it, Jason. It happens all the time. OK, if you were to lease a 2005 Subaru Legacy GT Sedan through its captive finance company before the end of the month for 36 months with 12,000 miles per year, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00120 and 47%, respectively. The selling price that you were quoted on this car sounds reasonable to me, but you may want to stop by the following discussion to run it past other community members who are in the market for or have recently purchased this car: "Subaru Legacy: Prices Paid & Buying Experience".

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CarMan@Edmunds · March 2005

You're welcome, seden. It definitely doesn't hurt to purchase new vehicles at the end of the month. Many dealers have been known to cut cheaper deals than they would have at the beginning of the month to squeeze a few more sales in. Even though the special lease program that Honda is currently running on the Accord is scheduled to run through May 2nd, Honda is cunning a dealer stairstep program that pays its dealers dealer cash based upon the number of Accords and Civics that they sell before March 31st. If I was in the market for this car, I personally would make sure that I leased it prior to then.

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CarMan@Edmunds · March 2005

Greetings jdhartman. In your area, its New York region, Toyota Financial Services' current 36 month, 15,000 miles per year base lease money factor and residual value for the 2005 Sienna LE are .00090 and 62%, respectively. You can use these numbers, along with the formula that is outlined in the following article to come up with an approximate lease payment for this van: Calculate Your Own Lease Payment. I say approximate because Toyota Financial Services calculates leases a little differently than most banks in that it often does not allow the entire residualization of vehicles' options.

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CarMan@Edmunds · March 2005

You're very welcome, hpowders. I am glad that I was able to help you out.

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CarMan@Edmunds · March 2005

Smith83, you never mentioned the selling prices of the cars that you are interested in leasing. These are important numbers for you as a consumer to know for two reasons. First, the selling prices of leased vehicles can be negotiated, just as if you were paying cash for them. Without knowing the prices of the cars that you want to lease you don't know how good a deal you are getting on them. The second reason is that one needs the selling prices of the vehicles that they want to lease is that they is necessary to calculate lease payments. I would be more than happy to work up sample lease payments on both of the cars that you are interested in for you if you let me know what their selling price are. Please include the MSRPs in your next post as well so I don't have to flip around trying to find them again. Thanks.

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CarMan@Edmunds · March 2005

Hey Ernest. Saab has quite a bit of lease support on its vehicles right now. Its exact lease program and the amount of lease cash that is is providing vary depending by model and trim level. If you let me know exactly what car you are considering leasing, how long you want to lease it for, and how many miles per year you need to be able to drive it, I would be happy to try to give you an idea of what its current lease program is like. One can lease a new Saab through General Motors' Supplier Purchase Program.

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CarMan@Edmunds · March 2005

You're right Chris, Acura's lease program on the MDX is pretty decent right now. If you like the MDX, you may want to check out the Honda Pilot. It is a fairly similar truck, but it is a little less expensive. BMW has a pretty decent lease program running on the X3 right now. You may want to check out the Toyota 4Runner and Highlander as well.

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CarMan@Edmunds · March 2005

Thanks for noticing that, kyfdx. You are absolutely right, BMW's lease money factor on the 330 convertible is not as low as it is on the 330 coupe. BMW FS' current 3 year, 12,000 miles per base lease money factor and residual value for the 2005 300Ci Convertible should be .00150 and 63%, respectively. Good info about the bump in money factor for European Delivery. Thanks.

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CarMan@Edmunds · March 2005

Excellent observation, oaktons11. I always appreciate it when community members stop back and let us all know how everything turns out with their leases. Not only does it help others by giving them an idea of how much they should pay to lease a particular car or truck, but it also makes me feel good to see what everything worked out well. Thanks for the suggestion.

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mlrtime · March 2005

Car_man,

Can you tell me the numbers for the Legacy GT Limited Wagon 5AT for 24/24 and 36/36?

I was quoted the following:
24/24k 0 down: $597
24/24k 2500 down: 511
36/36k 0 down: $449
36/36k 2500 down: 438
The above numbers include Tags,title, + NJ tax.

24/24k = .0014 mf and 59% residual
36/36k = .0015 mf and 51% residual

This is for the above car + about 1k in dealer installed options. The money factor and residual seem much different than the prices you quoted for the legacy sedan.

Thanks for the help.

shaker58 · March 2005

I got the dealer down to 520 for the MDX touring with running boards and side moldings refundable sec and 1st upfront 3/36

also got another dealer 475 for base model with roof rack,sidemolding and running boards. 3/36
sec and 1 st pyt upfront

deal wise is one better than the other leaning towards base model

seden · March 2005

Thanks a lot....I'm sure I'll be back with more questions when I actually start to negotiate! You've been a great help

forks2 · March 2005

Car_Man,

I feel like the Infiniti dealer tried to pull one on me last night. He wouldn't tell me what residual or money factor he was using to determine lease so I was very skeptical. He just said they were set by a number of banks. Also, these figs did not take into account credit score or anything like that. Can you please review the specs below?

MSRP: $31,200
Sell Price: $29,750
Lease specs: 48 mnth/ 15k miles
Trade-in: -$4,600 (Hyundai Elantra GT)
Down payment: $2000
Mnthly payment: $460 + tax

One more thing, his mntly payment for 39 month/15k lease was in the mid $500's. Please let me know if this is what I should expect to pay or if the dealer was trying to rip me off.

Thanks!
-Morgan

dwynne · March 2005

The G35 captive numbers should be 51% and 0.00179 on that car. I assume the $2,000 "down payment" is an additional cap cost reduction (in addition to you car trade) ?

Anyway, if you plug in the residual ($15,912) and just the "sell price" ($29,750) into a lease calculator I get $370.03 per month + tax! So without a trade and paying the first month, security deposit (if any) and acq fee up front you could lease this car for $90 LESS per month WITHOUT YOUR TRADE.

If I deduct $4,600 from the sell price I get $265.96 per month. If I take another $2k off (assuming additional cap cost reduction) I get $220.71.

So your feeling was right - this is a major league rip-off deal.

Bad dealer, no biscuit :-)

Dennis

stein · March 2005

Car Man,

Will the MDX lease program change in April, since their current $399 lease special runs through May 2?

I am from NJ, I just wanted to clarify: the 12K/yr per year 36 month residual is 64%, but drops to 62% for 15K/yr. The .00196 money factor stays the same.

Even though it probably is out of our price range, What is the money factor and residual on the 4WD Infinti QX56?

As always, thanks for all your help.

ar831 · March 2005

Dennis,

I went to a Honda dealer near me and i wanted to see what they can offer. The problem is my creidt is in tier 3. Not very good, even with a co-signer that has great credit. He said he can do the deal for me for $4500 down, which includes tax title cap cost reduction and extra money to lower the payments and bring me to a tier 1 credit rather then tier 3. I would pay $266 a month with $18 going towards and specific insurance for if the car gets stolen it covers my down payment as well. With normal insurance it only covers the cost of the car not the down payment. What do you think about this deal? Thanks!

forks2 · March 2005

Dennis,

I have an upside down trade-in. $4600 would be in addition to cap cost...trade-in value was $6000 (a bit lower than KBB or Edmunds) and I still owe $10,600 on it.

So, maybe not a "major" league rip off, but still thought figs were high using a few online calculators.

What do you think?

-Morgan

kyfdx · March 2005

You really need to make sure your dealer submits an application to BMWFS this month!!

That is the only way to lock in the lease rates for March... Since you ordered, he may have already done so...

Also, if you are signing your lease 14 days before pickup, you probably won't be able to use May's lease numbers... You will have to use March (which are very good) or April's numbers (who knows?).

Call your salesman back, and make sure your numbers are locked... If you can't get the acq.fee lowered...well..it is only $200.. Getting the base money factor was much more important....

regards,
kyfdx

dwynne · March 2005

>>MSRP: $31,200
>>Sell Price: $29,750
>>Lease specs: 48 mnth/ 15k miles
>>Trade-in: -$4,600 (Hyundai Elantra GT)
>>Down payment: $2000
>>Mnthly payment: $460 + tax

I missed the - in front of the trade, or thought it was a typo. With no trade and no cap cost reduction we were at $370.03, so if we add $4,600 to the cap cost we get $474.55 per month + tax.

That is a lot closer to what you have from them.

I am still not clear on what the $2,000 is - you call it "down payment". If you mean as a cap cost reduction then you would be at $429.30 per month. If you meant "out of pocket at signing" - and includes the acq fee, security deposit, and first month's rent, tags, and taxes then the payment the dealer gave you sounds OK.

Hyundai makes some really nice stuff now and the warranty (and some of the dealers) are first-rate. The residual values of their cars does not reflect this, however. Resale and lease numbers on them just are not great.

Dennis

dwynne · March 2005

Really hard to tell. Do you know your credit score? You can go to leasecompare.com and get a free (and instant) online quote from them on the lease. You can use that as a comparison with what the dealer gave you.

If you have the $4,500 you could stick it in the bank and withdraw $125 each month ($4,500/36) to help pay the note. Then you could do the deal (in theory) with $0 down and payments of $373 ($248 w/o insurance + $125 from the bank) per month. No need for the insurance since you don't have any up front money in it.

Sounds like the dealer was trying to make the payment work out for you the same as the advertised lease. If you have that much money to put down, then save it and go with the higher payment. Have them run the numbers that way and see how it works out.

See if your insurance company covers GAP for free - if so then there is no need for the extra $18 per month if you can get a deal with little down.

The promo deals all call for "tier 1" credit and they never advertise (and in some cases do not offer) any alternative - so hard to know what is a "Fair" deal or not. In any case get the purchase price, any fees (doc, acq, etc), money factor, and residual before you sign anything and run them through a lease calc to be sure they add up. Way too easy to get ripped off with hidden charges if you do not.

Dennis

brian0663 · March 2005

Can you please help with a monthly payment estimation for 2005 Tacoma? If the selling price is $25,800 before t/l, what would a lease payment be on a 48 month lease at 15k miles per year?
Trade in value of $2364 (2003 Ranger Edge EXT cab 4dr 3.0 and still owe $7400 on it) with an additional $1000 cash down. I am going in to a dealer today and would like a heads up. Thanks!

By the way..my credit is over 740

coffee_fan · March 2005

Hi Car_Man, I called Saablease instead as the issue in question was around the taxability of the Lease Cash -- So the key point is whether lease cash would be applied before the agreed sale price (and thus would not be taxable) or after setting the agreed sale price in which case it is taxable. So, the folks at SAAB said that all non-cash credits and rebates are taxable and the responsibility of the lessee. So obviously the trick here must be that SAAB does collect extra tax money which they can use in the market until they have to pay taxes.

Unfortunately my deal did not yet go through, but I have spent my time finding better overall indicators to assess whether a deal is good beyond the MF, and the term, etc. So I came up with these 2:

Indicator 1: Deal Cost / Depreciation point -- For this one you add the sum of monthly amounts + inception fees and you divide it by the depreciation points incurred during the life of the lease -- It is good only for comparing different lease terms on the same car.

Indicator 2: Prorated deal cost / month -- For this one you add the sum of monthly amounts + inception fees and you divide it by the term of your lease -- This one is good to compare any lease to any lease independent of the term period as long as you have comparable cars per your goals.

So my question to you: Do you know of any indicators beyond the ones I listed above that allow you to do an overall deal assessment?

Thanks again.

kh08 · March 2005

I see they have some great money back for the sedan. What are the money factor and residuals for the remaining 2005 sedans. Thanks.

ar831 · March 2005

Dennis,

My credit scores are in the high 500's and low 600's. The reason it is so bad is because of a recent Bankruptcy. My boyfriend has scores in the high 600's and low 700's. With our scores combined we are in tier 3. We do have the $4500 to put down because i sold my old car for $2000 and we have the other $2500. For us the monthly payment being low is a huge help because we are moving and the lower the better until we are stable in the new state, if you know what i mean. We will need the car for the new state thats why we HAD to buy it. Where i live right now a car is not really necessary but in the new state it is. Based on everything so far what do you think of the lease deal? I just want to make sure im not getting taken advantage of... Thanks so much!

dwynne · March 2005

I guess, but I would STILL keep the money in the bank and take it out if you needed it rather than spend it now - and have to take the $18 a month insurance.

I checked on the leasecompare site using a score of 600 and with nothing down (getting the car below cost) the payment would be $443/month for 36 months. With a lot down (close to $4k) the payment was $339 a month for 36 months. Money factor was 0.00570 (ouch). So in light of that, the payment you quoted for 36 months does not sound that bad.

Dennis

smith83 · March 2005

Here they are:

1) GS 300 - MSRP $46,800, sales price $45,900
2) M35 - MSRP $47,760, sales price $46,760
3) MDX w/NAV - MSRP $43,294, sales price $40,794

I am looking for 24 and 36 month leases with 15k miles per year. What other costs will be involved upfront?

Thanks.

jeffwilson · March 2005

My CLK320 lease is up in Novemeber and I was thinking that I would buy my next car because I am onw a consultant and the job is a lot more tenuous than my previous fulltime positions. Someone told me that there was insurance available that would pay off your lease if you lost your job. Can someone point me to someplace where I can get more information on this? Is it expensive? Does it affect your credit rating if it happens? Thanks very much.

dwynne · March 2005

36/45k 0.00210 MF 53%
36/36k 0.00210 MF 55%

Edmunds incentive page shows $4,200 in dealer cash on the 330i sedans.

Dennis

jagilber · March 2005

Hi,

I have a couple leasing questions on the 2005 Honda Accord EX, 4-door, 4 cyl, with leather and navi.

The MSRP is $27,115, and the price a dealer in Cleveland, OH gave me was $25,750. The residual value he gave me on a 3-yr, 15,000 mile lease is $14,099. On the MSRP, that comes out to a Residual Value of 52%. Doesn't that sound low? And if so, what should it be? In addition, do you calculate the residual value off the MSRP or the price the dealer gives you?

Finally, what's the going money factor for a 3-yr. lease on this vehicle?

Thanks.

kh08 · March 2005

Thanks for 330 info, last request, how about the same informatin on the fx35 rwd w/touring package.
Thanks again.

dwynne · March 2005

Search is your friend :-)

This is from February - the last time someone asked.

car_man said:

"Here is the information that you are looking for, ereynihc. If you were to lease a 2005 Infiniti FX35 AWD through Infiniti Financial Services right now for 36 months with 12,000 miles per year, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00179 and 60%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical lease of a 2004 model should be .00163 and 58%.

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lexus2004 · March 2005

My mom is new to leasing and she's intersted in the following cars.
I was wondering if I could get some residuals and MFs assuming 3yrs/36k for these cars:

2005 BMW 325i Auto (there's also $2500 rebates!)
2005 Volvo S40 2.4i Auto
2005 Volvo S40 T5 FWD Auto
2005 Toyota Prius (I know you've said the residuals are low and incentives few, but mom really likes this car)

nikinnicky · March 2005

Do you have to pay freight when you are leasing a vehicle, or only when you are purchasing one?
Thanks

dwynne · March 2005

Do your mean "destination charge" ? If so, then you have to pay that no matter what. On a lease, you only pay for the part of that you use. For example, if the destination charges is $600 and you do a 3yr lease with a 50% residual then you actually only pay $300 of it. Of course, with interest you DO pay more than $300 - but you see what I mean.

Dennis

nikinnicky · March 2005

Thanks, Dennis, that was a big help. I just got an email quote for full destination/freight charge($515 for an Accord lease.) They certainly try to inflate their profit at every opportunity-$50 here, $100 there, adds up!

dwynne · March 2005

The MSRP, the invoice, and your negotiated low price will all have the same $515 destination charge in them (or should). The residual is based on MSRP including this charge, so while it is included in FULL in the cap cost you will only be paying the residual % of it, plus interest.

Dealer "doc fees" are another gotcha. The AHFS acq fee should be $595 as well. Make sure they don't inflate any of these numbers or the money factor. With the LX lease money at .9% and the EX money around 2% you might want to roll the acq fee into the lease - for sure on the LX deal since it is almost free money. There is a security deposit - your monthly payment rounder up to the nearest $25 increment (I think it is $25 for Honda, some it is $50). So if your payment was $219 then the security would be $225 (or maybe $250). You can have AHFS waive the security deposit by paying a money factor that is 0.00010 (0.24%) higher. Some folks like for them to have the deposit, but they don't pay interest on it so you can pay a little more each month and not give that to them.

All AHFS leases should include the $1,500 "we forgive you" damage waiver - up to $1,500 worth of nicks, dings, etc will be waived at turn-in. Also gap insurance is included in the lease - if the car is totalled or stolen will satisfy the lease payoff even if your insurance only pays "current market value".

Dennis

echiu · March 2005

Car Man,

I posted awhile back about getting the base MF and residuals for the 2006 530i and they weren't available at the time. I was wondering if you have them yet since I have one coming into port on 4/6 and the dealer quoted a base rate of 0.00270 with a 62% residual (36 months, 12k/year). This seems high compared with the 0.00125 this month for the 530i and 545i. Also, do you have the April rates for the 2005 545i?

Thanks,

-Eric

CarMan@Edmunds · March 2005

You're very welcome, g35-or-bmw. I'm glad that you have learned so much from reading this discussion. It looks like you got an excellent deal on your new car. Not only was Infiniti Financial' Services base lease money factor used to calculate your payment, but your car's selling price is attractive as well. Congratulations and enjoy.

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CarMan@Edmunds · March 2005

Hey testykaren. I have seen the lease program for the models that you are interested in. If you were to lease a 2005 Mercedes-Benz ML350 through Mercedes-Benz Credit Corp. right now for 3 years with 12,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00310 and 52%, respectively. The money factor for an otherwise identical lease of a 2005 ML500 would be exactly the same, but the residual value would be 50%. MBCC's money factors vary depending upon which of its credit tiers you qualify for. When negotiating your leases on these trucks, keep in mind that Mercedes is providing $2,000 dealer cash on the ML350 and $3,000 on the ML500. These incentives will help you to negotiate an attractive capitalized cost. On a related note, recently I had an opportunity to check out the 2006 M-Class at the New York Auto Show and Mercedes-Benz did an outstanding job with its redesign of this model.

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CarMan@Edmunds · March 2005

Greetings ar831. Honda's advertised lease on the 2005 Accord is a reasonable deal. However, the selling prices of leased vehicles are negotiable. This lease is based upon a capitalized cost that you should easily be able to beat if you shop around. I have heard about consumers leasing '05 Accords right now for right at, or even a couple hundred dollars below invoice.

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CarMan@Edmunds · March 2005

Hi evan7578. Ahhh, spring is in the air and you're looking for a new convertible. If you were to lease a 2005 BMW 325 Convertible through BMW Financial Services right now for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00150 and 60%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical lease of a 2005 330 Convertible should be .00150 and 61%. If you were to lease either of these cars with only 12,000 miles per year, their residual values would be 2% higher.

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CarMan@Edmunds · March 2005

Welcome aboard, mlrtime. Subaru does offer 24 month leases through its captive finance company. If you were to lease a 2005 Subaru Legacy GT Wagon through its captive finance company prior to the end of the month for 2 years with 12,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00105 and 56%, respectively. Using these numbers, an MSRP of $31,964, and a selling price of $27,690, I estimate that this vehicle would have a zero down, pre-tax monthly payment of around $456. Ouch. With this lease, you would not have to pay any sort of down payment, but you would owe Subaru's lease acquisition fee of $595.

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CarMan@Edmunds · March 2005

Hello mingus. Thirty-six month leases almost always provide lower monthly payments than twenty-four month leases do. This is because new vehicles experience their most rapid depreciation during the first year of ownership. By leasing for 36 months instead of 24, you are able to spread this initial depreciation hit out over an additional 12 payments.

According to the latest information that I have seen, if you were to lease a 2005 Toyota 4Runner SR5 2WD through Toyota Financial Services in its Los Angeles region prior to the end of the month for 36 months with 15,000 miles per year, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00131 and 60%, respectively. Its residual value for a lease with only 12,000 miles per year would be 2% higher. Individual dealers do not have the authority to pad deals by altering vehicles' published residual values.

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CarMan@Edmunds · March 2005

Hi ltrain. You never mentioned the selling price or MSRP of the truck that you are interested in leasing. These are important number for you as a consumer to know for two reasons. First, the selling prices of leased vehicles can be negotiated, just as if you were paying cash for them. Without knowing this truck's selling price in relation to its MSRP you don't know how much of a discount you are getting on it. The second reason is that one needs the selling price and MSRP, including the destination charge, of a vehicle to calculate its lease payment. I would be more than happy to work up a sample lease payment on the Pilot that you are interested in so that you can compare it to the deal that you have been quoted if you let me know what these numbers are.

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CarMan@Edmunds · March 2005

You're very welcome, andyhiggs. It sounds like you got a very good deal. Thank you for taking the time to come back and let us all know how everything turned out. Congratulations on your new car and enjoy!

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CarMan@Edmunds · March 2005

Love330conv, it doesn't really matter whether the finance guy at the dealership that you are getting your car from makes anything or not, as a whole this dealer is making money on your deal. I suspect that BMW pays its dealers at least some sort of minimal flat fee for leases that they arrange anyhow.

You should be able to lock in BMW's current lease program on this car. The advantage of doing so is that when your car arrives next month you can either lease it through the program that you locked in, or take advantage of BMW's new program if it is more attractive.

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CarMan@Edmunds · March 2005

Here is the information that you are looking for, mlrtime. If you were to lease a 2005 Subaru Legacy GT Limited Wagon through its captive finance company prior to the end of the month for 2 years with 12,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00140 and 59%, respectively. The numbers for an otherwise identical 3 year lease of this model should be .00150 and 51%. As you can see, the numbers that you were quoted by the dealer that you are working with are accurate.

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CarMan@Edmunds · March 2005

No problem, shaker58. Make sure to let us know how everything turns out.

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CarMan@Edmunds · March 2005

You're welcome, seden. I am glad that I was able to help you out. Don't forget to stop back and fill us in on the details of your lease once it is finalized.

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