Lease Questions - Ask Here

thrawn · April 2005

Carman,

Just following up. Decided against going with the other cars on my original list, but am still very much interested in the Altima 2.5S. Have you been able to get this month's residual and MF? I'm looking for 24 months and 12k per year. Also, are there any cash incentives I should know about? I'm in NY, if that matters.

Thanks,

Sean

dwynne · April 2005

I have never used that calc before, but I have referred folks to it. Now that I look at it, it is pretty bogus.

It appears that calc rolls everything into the lease - even the first month's payment. It also appears that even if you 0 out the fees section it still rolls some extra money into the cap cost. Pretty messed up.

Try this one:

http://www.smartmoney.com/autos/leasing/index.cfm?story=cc

It does not roll anything into the lease at all. For example, plug in $15,000 cap cost, $7,500 residual, 36 payments, and 0.0024 money factor (not that you can put it in as MF or %) and it should come out to $262 a month (it is really $262.33, but close enough).

Then you can decide if you want to roll anything into the lease cap cost and see the results in the payment.

If you don't roll anything in, you would pay the acquisition fee, security deposit (if any) - which is your payment rounded to the nearest $25 or $50 increment, first month's payment, any dealer fees, tags, title, and any upfront taxes.

With MOST lease plans you can roll as much or as little of this stuff into the lease as you want - the more you do the less you pay at signing but the higher the payment each month. With a really cheap lease money factor (like the Accord < 1% current deal) why not roll as much into the lease and use Honda's money. With a higher rate lease, if you have the money then you might want to pay these things up front.

Dennis

kracker2k · April 2005

After a little research with this other calculator it appears that the edmunds one rolls everything into the lease except first months payment and security deposit... anyone else come up with the same conclusion?

So basically as far as I can see with the Edmunds calc you will need to pay first months payment and security deposit at signing... the rest is rolled into the monthly.

dwynne · April 2005

It is messed up, though. If you put in $15k for the car it makes up some dealer fees/taxes ($320, I think). And makes your "amount borrowed" $15,320. Even if you go $0 out the $320 it still have the payment wrong and the amount borrowed wrong.

Use the other link I sent you. Then you can run the numbers any way you like. Rolled in everything, rolled in nothing, anything in between.

Dennis

kracker2k · April 2005

Actually if you $0 out the fees column it does make it $0... It just puts in an estimated title/doc fee... it does work good once I figured out that SD is not rolled in... The numbers on both calcs come out the same for my lease... right at $220 a month for a Civic LX with $0 down, 36k/36m with first payment and SD due at signing ($470)

stalnaker · April 2005

I have been negotiating with Hubler Acura in Indianapolis, IN since the TL is one of the cars I was considering as my next vehicle. I was completely surprised and shocked when the salesperson finally admitted to me that they use a money factor of 0.00300 instead of the Honda standard "buy" rate of 0.00220. That's a 7.2% interest rate as opposed to 5.28%!!! Unbelievable! It's bad enough that this dealer isn't willing to come down on the price of the car that much (below MSRP), but then to find out that they are charging a much higher interest rate on leases just to pad their profits......well, that really turned me off. I will never do business with this dealer. I even sent the guy a pretty nasty e-mail telling him what I thought of their practices.

It's so frustrating to do all of this research, negotiate selling prices, calculate lease payments, etc......then you find out that the numbers you expect the dealer to use when making the same calculations aren't even the same.

Has anyone found a semi-honest Acura dealer in Illinois or Ohio who will offer these vehicles at a healthy discount without marking up the money factor?

Ernest

kyfdx · April 2005

You are correct.. it adds a phantom $10/mo. to the cap cost if you go with a 15K/yr lease...

I just avoid it.. it is a pitiful calculator.. I created an Excel spreadsheet... (okay, my 11-year-old helped me with it).

hpowders · April 2005

I live near Tampa and all the BMW dealers stink as do the Lexus dealers. They will all try and rob you blind.
There are 4 good BMW dealers in other parts of Florida and I will eventually try and deal with each one.
What happened was I was on Leasecompare.com last night(a great place for inflated money factors and deflated residuals) and they had a link to a BMWFS dealer's quote for the X5 4.4.
So I hooked up with that and a salesman got back to me that I should get a quote in writing from another dealer and they would try and beat it. Ridiculous.
Needless to say, that dealership is off my list.
I checked with BBB and this particular dealership has had many complaints.
I strongly advise everybody to check with BBB before negotiating with any dealership.
I even found an "ELITE" Lexus dealership-supposedly the cream of the crop-that had an unsatisfactory record with the BBB.
Buyer beware!

hpowders · April 2005

Wow! The absolute max for this money factor given a .00220 base rate should be .00275 which would include a .00015 fee for no security deposit
Sounds like price-gouging.

dwynne · April 2005

I feel like I am beating my head against the wall.

I posted about this several times - you know about 3rd party lease banks, right?

On a finance purchase you would not be forced to accept dealer financing, right? You realize you can get a loan from your bank, credit union, or other place and finance the cart?

Well, guess what? There are lease brokers that can lease you the car. I have used leasecompare.com a couple of times and it saved me money each time. But there is also lease-by-tel and any number of other ones online. Also look in your yellow pages and there may be some local folks as well.

I just checked on leasecompare and they will do 0.00220 and 56% on a 2005 TL w/NAV. The way it works is you make your best deal and then when the dealer stiffs you on the lease, you go online and apply and get approved. Then LC overnight paperwork to you and you overnight it back, then they wire transfer or overnight a cashier's check to the dealership and you show up and drive your new car home. The dealer does even get to stiff you for a doc fee, since LC sends you a drive out tag and handles the tags and registration for you. The others should work the same way.

This way you can stick it to them by getting the car but not paying what they ask for financing.

Why do they do this? Because they can. Not enough Acura dealers to go around so they mostly refuse to deal. Also, a lot of dealerships now are owned by big chains or corporations and they have to report a profit on every phase of the transaction.

My local BMW dealer is like this and they would rather lose a sale than to give the buy rate on a loan or lease. I got leasecompare to do the lease and even beat them out of their $500-600 (some sill number) "doc fee".

Wake up, man! You don't have to take their finance offer!

BTW, for my money I think I would get the Accord Hybrid rather than the TL - if you were going to get the auto TL anyway. Very quick car (fastest Accord sedan) and good mileage driven "right" and super mileage if you putt-putt around. Less money too - and LOTS of Honda dealers to compete for your business.

Dennis

arx330 · April 2005

Hello Car_man,

Can you please provide MR & Residual value for 2005 Nissan Maxima SE (6M) on 24/15K and 36/15K? Thanks

-JA

arx330 · April 2005

Hello Car_man,

Can you please provide MR & Residual value for 2005 Nissan 350Z TOURING Coupe and Roadster (both Manual) on 24/15K and 36/15K? Thanks

-JA

arx330 · April 2005

Hello Car_man,

Can you please provide MR & Residual value for 2005 Nissan Altima 3.5 SE (Manual) on 24/15K and 36/15K? Thanks

-JA

dwynne · April 2005

How close are you to Augusta, GA? The guy I got my 330i from and my boss got his 540iA from is there. Gave me the best deal and gave us buy rate on the financials. Gives quotes over the phone or in e-mails as well.

I flew down and drove mine back as did my boss. Well worth the trip for what we saved.

He specializes is getting cars without ordering them. If he does not have it, he will try to find one on order elsewhere (not sold) that is already built and on the way "on the boat" or at the dock. Then he swaps a future build with the dealer and gets the car.

About the only downside is you need to get right to the dealership once he has the car. The paperwork and "sale" is dated when they get the car in and ready. If you wait a week to pick it up you have a 1 week shorter warranty

Hey, if you want a deal you gotta do a little work.

E-mail me via profile and I can pass along info if you are interested.

I think in FL isn't there a "bring it in from out of state" penalty/tax if you do this? I don't remember how much that is, but I would check into that first.

Dennis

dwynne · April 2005

I use a lease calculator I have on my web page. I used to use it online at the site of the guy who wrote it, but he must have fallen off the face of the earth. So I keep a copy on my web page for personal use and every so often try to track him down.

I have Lease-It! in my Palm pilot as well.

I wonder who at Edmunds we can e-mail about the bugs in their calc?

Dennis

dwynne · April 2005

You can read it right off the NissanUSA web page:

2005 Altima 2.5S Auto w/Splash Guard, Protection Pkg & Mats  24 MONTHS  $199/MONTH  $1,699/INITIAL PAYMENT

Excludes taxes, title, license and options. $1,699 initial payment required at consummation. (Includes $1,500 consumer down payment, $199 first month payment, $0 security deposit).

2005 Altima 2.5S Auto w/Splash Guard, Protection Pkg & Mats (model #05715/05215) subject to availability to qualified lessees through Infiniti-Nissan LT. MSRP $20,620 includes destination charge. Net capitalized cost of $18,542 includes a $550 non-refundable acquisition fee ($795 non-refundable acquisition fee for residents of New York and Rhode Island). $1,128 dealer discount required, which may affect actual price set by dealer. Monthly payments total $4,776.00. At lease end, purchase for $14,227.80, plus $150 purchase option fee (except KS & WI), plus tax, or pay excess wear and tear plus $0.15 per mile for mileage over 12,000 miles per year. Lessee is responsible for maintenance and repairs. See participating Dealer for details. Offer ends 05/02/2005.

MSRP = $20,620 Residual = $14,227.80 means the residual percentage is 69%.

If you plug the net cap cost $18,542 and the payment and residual into a lease calculator and solve for money factor you get 0.00059 or 1.1416%.

There is a $1,500 rebate on the car and I think it can be combined with the lease deal. If so, you should be able to get the car without the cap cost reduction listed here. Actually, it lists a $1,500 cap cost reduction so maybe they assume you are going to use the rebate as that.

You should have done this deal last month, the money factor was about 0.5% for the same car.

Dennis

michael10 · April 2005

Car man,
MSRP 34,320 sorry for not including in my original post. Thanks

jforce · April 2005

I'm trying to find what the residual costs are on the following: Honda Accord, 2dr, 4cy Auto, Cloth; Volvo S40 (basic model + sunroof); Mazada 3 special series.

Is this something that is one all their websites??

stalnaker · April 2005

Thanks for the info! I would prefer to stay with AHFC though, especially since they "forgive" up to three $500 "incidents" at the end of the lease.

Anyway, I think I'm going to go with the Accord EX-L V6. The Hybrid is nice, but is a terrible car to lease (too expensive and low residual). But I think I'll be happy with my decision.

Ernest

stalnaker · April 2005

Car_Man:

I have already decided to go with the 2005 Accord for my next car. Thanks for your help with that decision!

I am curious about the Honda Element though. I haven't seen it discussed on here. We are also leasing an Odyssey right now but might want to switch to the Element when we replace it. I'm wondering how well the Element leases.

Could you give me residuals and money factors on the following Elements, based on a 3-year lease at 12,000 miles year?

- Element EX 2WD
- Element EX AWD

Thanks!

Ernest

frankrizzo1 · April 2005

Hello CarMan, thanks in advance for any info you can provide:

Can you tell me the lease rate and residual for an '05 CTS V series?

I gather the lease rate is 3.95%, but the residual eludes me.

I'm in the Chicago area.

I've been reading through all the posts - thanks for all the great information!

I'm about to lease a V-series and want to make sure the dealer is on the up and up with their numbers.

cheers,
Frank

brandi20 · April 2005

the msrp of a 2005 acura rsx is 22,250.00$. destination charge is 570$. i do not have a selling price, although im sure it would be somewhere between the msrp and the invoice of $20286.00. lets say 21,000.00. if you need some more info, let me know, thanks!

dwynne · April 2005

Except for the hybrid (I guess) it IS a good month again to get an Accord. Big incentives and several motivated dealers around to make deals. There is a guy at Swope in Louisville that seems to be giving good deals if you can find something close to home.

That is true about Honda Finance, but I would not pay an inflated MF and further line the dealer's pockets in any case. Either get something else (as you are doing) or go some place else (harder to do on an Acura) or get a 3rd party lease.

Dennis
P.S. "Go Colts!"

dwynne · April 2005

We looked at those, my wife liked it except:

Room for only 4 - the back seat can't be used for 3 even in a pinch (no seatbelt).

Get in the waterproof seats on a cold day and you will be wishing for the velour or heated leather of the Accord

The hose-it-out interior is fine for some folks, but not as comfy or "nice" as we would like.

I have not seen a Honda lease deal on these, so I will interested in what car_man says. I do know they don't sell that well, so Honda still has 1.9% for 60 months on them and dealers will deal down low on them. Of course, with the current Accord incentives the Accord is cheaper to buy now. The ALG 3/36k residual appears to be 54% on the AWD EX - which is a pretty decent number. The FWD is 52%.

If it is like the CR-V the AWD will lease better through Honda finance as well due to a stronger residual.

I have some friends with one and they love it. But they have a couple of big (messy) dogs so that is perfect for them. They have an S2000 for fun times, and the Element for times when they are taking the dogs some place - or are going to the beach, etc.

Dennis

skinnydog · April 2005

Does anyone have any experience with leasing a car that has already come off of a lease. For example a BMW with an extended warranty? Not likley to do it, but I am curious.

dwynne · April 2005

I have leased two used cars. Both were under factory warranty and one had the added CPO warranty on the other I added the manufacturer's extended warranty to.

Both were very hot lease deals (VS a new lease of the same car).

What is your question? Can you do it? Yes. Is it a good deal? Depends on the car and the price. Risky? Not if you have a warranty that goes past the end of the lease.

Dennis

dguptaofnj · April 2005

Hi Car_Man,

I learnt a lot from you in this board and finally pulled the trigger on a MDX Touring Lease in NJ. The MSRP was about $40,500 and the sellling price $36,750. I did go against your suggestion and put down $999 to lower the monthly payments to $414.50 pre-tax. I agreed with your observation that the Acura Lease Support on this SUV is pretty decent, I was getting similar quotes on the Toyota Highlander ( V6 AWD Ltd ) which are probably not quite at the same level as a SUV as the MDX Touring.

Thank you all in this board, this was my first lease.

Regards.

pdurant · April 2005

Hey CarMan,

I was wondering if you could give me the residual value and money factor on a 48month/15k lease on a 2005 Toyota 4Runner SR5 V8 - 2WD for the Southeast Regions - specifically Alabama. Thanks for your help!

skinnydog · April 2005

Thanks, Dennis. Can I ask what were the used cars you leased?

jessie504 · April 2005

Hi Carman,

I'd greatly appreciate any help you can give me calculating a sample lease on a 2005 Pontiac GTO I am looking at. This is my first lease and want to make sure I don't walk into the dealership empty handed.

Lease terms: 3years/12k miles
MSRP: 33,690
Selling Price: 31,902.78 (this includes the 1,000 bonus cash)

This deal is in Louisiana.

Thank you for your time.

alphawolf · April 2005

Car_Man,

Thanks for the reply.

Actually, after much research and thinking about it- I will lease the new Avalon.

Are you familair with any of the "lease swap" websites out there? There are two primary websites that allow people to list their vehicles and let other's assume the lease.

They point out NOT every financial instituition supports this. Luckily, Toyota Financial does...and for a fee of just $35 from the info I got.

However, I will be double checking with the dealer when I get it.

The bummer is that I'll be moving down the Florida (from NY) end of this month and on the Avalon 2005+ forum it seems all South FL dealers are selling it for $3995 ABOVE MSRP!

I am *hoping* Central Florida will be a bit better. I don't want to pay more than $500-$1000 over invoice for the Avalon Limited. According to North Carolina dealer site where they list Avalon invoice [Florida dealers do not], it seems invoice is appx 10% off MSRP, though I understand this varies by region.

I'd fly out of state, but must keep in mind the vehicle needs to be turned in to that state.

Basically, I ain't paying $4k over invoice no matter what.

I plan to buy last 2 days of this month. *Maybe* that will help a bit...and I am willing to take what they have in stock as well.

Any specific advise regarding a lease on the 2005 Avalon Limited? I really want this vehicle.

Thanks a bunch. Your efforts are gretaly appreciated here, and I'm sure I speak for everyone!

Regards,

Dean

delrick · April 2005

Hi Car_man

Any info yet on the 9-7X.?

And do you know whether or not GM is currently running its early out lease program?

Have a lease up in July and would like to order either a 9-7X or an Envoy Denali, depending on terms, and early out on current lease. :shades:

vgurl · April 2005

Hi Car Man,

I just pulled my credit report through Experian and it's pretty bad. My credit score is 544. How badly will this affect my leasing? Will I have to get a co-signor?

Please let me know.

Thanks much also for the info you gave me on the Honda, btw.

branco327 · April 2005

hello car man,

i'm just finishing the first year of a 3 year lease on my BMW 330CI and it looks like i'll be putting about half the milage allowed on this vehicle by the time the lease is done based on my current driving habits (about 6k miles/yr).

my lease is up in 2007 but i would hate to return it 'half-used'. it's been a wonderful car so far and i'm thinking of just keeping it but i'm a little concerned about what the new '07 coupes will do to the market value of the current generation. what would you do?

by the time the lease is up it will have another year of warranty available plus i can extend it for another 2 years for about $2000 with a $200 deductible but i find this expensive. do you suggest i get extended coverage if i buy the car?

CarMan@Edmunds · April 2005

Hello vgurl. I would be more than happy to work up a sample lease payment on the Honda Accord that you are interested in for you. However, in order for me to do so I need you to provide me with its full MSRP.

Car_man
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CarMan@Edmunds · April 2005

Hi superdog. I would pass on the excess wear and tear insurance if I was in your situation. Most manufacturers' captive finance companies, including BMW Financial Services, are fairly reasonable when evaluating the conditions of vehicles at lease-end.

Car_man
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CarMan@Edmunds · April 2005

You certainly are interested in an amazing car, gymgirl1. Just in time for summer, too. Lexus is not currently providing any sort of lease support on this car. As a result, if you were to lease one through Lexus Financial Services, you would have to use its standard lease program. There is a chance that you would be able to lease this car for less through an independent bank right now than you could through LFS. I would be happy to calculate a sample lease payment on it for you using Lexus' actual lease program. However in order for me to do so I need you to tell me its full MSRP. This number is useful to know anyhow because it shows you how much of a discount you are being given.

Car_man
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CarMan@Edmunds · April 2005

Greetings TC_EY. Acura is not currently providing any sort of lease support on the 2005 TSX. As a result, it you were to lease one through American Honda Finance Corp. right now, you would have to use its standard lease program. Its 3 year base standard lease money factor is currently .00240. The 3 year, 15,000 miles per residual value for a 2005 TSX without navigation is currently 58%.

Car_man
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CarMan@Edmunds · April 2005

Hey hpowders. I can see why the salesperson who you corresponded with via e-mail responded to your inquiry they way that they did. Rather risk losing your business by giving you a price to shop around at other dealers with, they he or she was saying shop around first and they will beat make sure that they get your business by beating any offers that you have been given. I am sure that this sort of response turns off some consumers, but it also probably keeps them from missing out on some potential sales. If you don't like it, you are always free to take your business elsewhere.

Car_man
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CarMan@Edmunds · April 2005

Hello tcmotorcity. Toyota's lease program often varies depending upon which one of its twelve regions you are in. As a result, I need you to tell me what state you are in in order for me to give you an accurate idea of what its lease program is currently like on the truck that you want.

Car_man
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CarMan@Edmunds · April 2005

Hello mvc_jones. In order to determine whether you should purchase your vehicle at the end of your lease, you need to compare its purchase price to its value on the open market at this time. Even though it states your car or truck's purchase option price on your lease contract, you should place a call to the bank that you are leasing it through just to make sure that you have the correct figure. When you do so, it never hurts to try to haggle with them. Some banks will negotiate the lease-end purchase prices of vehicles. If your initial contact at your bank is not willing to lower your vehicle's purchase price, you may have better luck if you work your way up the ladder to a manager. There is a good chance that they will not lower your vehicle's price, more often than not they will not, but you don't have anything to lose by asking. You will have to wait until you are a month or two away from the scheduled end of your lease to try to negotiate because most banks will not work with consumers before then.

As I said earlier, once you know exactly how much money it is going to cost you to buy your leased vehicle you need to compare it to its current value on the open market. You can find out approximately what your vehicle is worth by looking up its Edmunds.com True Market Value in the Used Vehicle Pricing section of this site. You also may want to stop by the following discussion: "Real-World Trade-In Values". One of our most knowledgeable community members, Terry, frequents that discussion and he is often kind enough to give community members who give him an accurate description of their vehicles with his opinion on their value.

Car_man
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CarMan@Edmunds · April 2005

You're very welcome, Mark. I am glad that we were able to help you out.

Car_man
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toyotajim · April 2005

How is the residual value determined? Is the MSRP or the price paid for the vehicle the starting figure for computing the 3 year residual value. I want to purchase an 05 Toy 4 x 2 D-cab SR5, but will probably end up leasing until a couple of bills are paid off. I have a couple of trucks down to around $23,000 and do not want to be burned on a high residual because I will want to purchase the truck. Thank you - TundraJim

CarMan@Edmunds · April 2005

No problem, blue58. Congratulations on your new ride! Thank you for taking the time to come back and let us all know how everything turned out.

Car_man
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CarMan@Edmunds · April 2005

Here is the information that you are looking for, Frank. If you were to lease a 2005 Cadillac CTS-V through General Motors Acceptance Corp. right now for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, its base lease rate and residual value should be 3.95% and 51%, respectively. When negotiating your lease on this car, make sure to keep in mind that GM is providing $2,500 lease cash and $1,000 bonus cash, $3,500 total, that will help you to negotiate an attractive capitalized cost.

Car_man
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CarMan@Edmunds · April 2005

No problem, chrismang1. According to the latest information that I have seen, if you were to lease a 2005 Lexus RX330 AWD without navigation through Lexus Financial Services right now for 3 years with 15,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00146 and 56%, respectively.

Car_man
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CarMan@Edmunds · April 2005

Kracker2k, the lease calculator that is available here at Edmunds.com only does what one tells it to. If you plug in the normal lease money factor for a vehicle, they you would have to pay a security deposit at lease signing. If you plug in the money factor for a lease with a waived security deposit then you would not have to pay one at lease signing. Typically at lease signing, consumer have to pay their vehicle's first month's payment, a security deposit equivalent to that payment rounded up to the nearest $25 or $50 increment, the acquisition fee that is charged by the bank that they are leasing through, and any required state taxes or fees that are not rolled into your vehicle's capitalized cost.

Car_man
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CarMan@Edmunds · April 2005

Hey Sean. the Nissan Altima is a solid choice. I have seen its April lease program and would be more than happy to give you an idea of what it is like. If you were to lease a 2005 Nissan Altima 2.5S through Nissan Motor Acceptance Corp. right now for 24 months with 12,000 miles per year, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00060 and 69%, respectively. While the $1,500 customer cash that Nissan is providing on the '05 Altima cannot be combined with its special lease program, I believe that it is providing $500 lease cash on this car that will help you to negotiate an attractive capitalized cost.

Car_man
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CarMan@Edmunds · April 2005

Good for you, Ernest. I would have walked if a dealer tried to mark a car's lease money factor up on me as well.

Car_man
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P.S. AHFC's 3 year, 15,000 miles per numbers for an '05 TL with navigation are currently .00240 and 57%.

CarMan@Edmunds · April 2005

Here you go, arx330. If you were to lease a 2005 Nissan Maxima SE through Nissan Motor Acceptance Corp. right now for 2 years with 15,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00199 and 61%, respectively. Its 3 year lease program for this car provides a much more attractive factor of .00031 and a residual of 53%.

Car_man
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