Dodge Dakota Owners - Meet the Members

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Comments

  • fat_fendersfat_fenders Member Posts: 96
    Congrats on the aquisition of the new Quad edwardqc. Hope you enjoy it as much as I'm enjoying mine. I've never gotten into a vehile to drive it around just because it was fun. But these Quads ARE fun.

    Good Luck,
    fat_fenders
  • cmedcmed Member Posts: 6
    Name: Chris
    Town: Brodhead, WI

    Quad: 00,SLT, T&H, LSD, Auto, 4.7L, Tow, Patritot Blue, etc...
    Addition: Spray in liner from local dealer (Fabick) and Roll and Lock cover.

    I've 'lurked' plenty here, figured I might as well just join in. I haven't seen very many Quads in WI just yet, in fact can count on 2 hands the total I've seen. Part of me hopes that doesn't change as I like the uniqueness, but the truck is too good for that.
  • spike50spike50 Member Posts: 481
    Have you heard (e-mails) from Ernie at all? Sent him a couple put only heard back once. Didn't know if I missed him and he's really here - somewhere.
  • amend1amend1 Member Posts: 98
    I have been utilizing this site since I was in the market for a truck since last September. Thought I'd say hello-
    Bill Amend
    Northvale ,NJ (It's a small just below the NY state line)
    Picked up my green SLT QC in February of this year and love it. Have the Tow pkg; HD elect; 4X4; 4.7L; 3.55 rear; cd player. Added extang cover, front driving and fog lights on a rhino bar up front. Hope to see some of you on the road. w_amend@yahoo.com
  • stnickstnick Member Posts: 177
    Just joined the Dakota town hall, and have enjoyed the posts, although still learning. As posted elswhere, I have 3500 miles on a 00 qc 4.7L auto slt+. I live in a small town of pop 780 in eastern Nebr. My name is Nick. I am in sales electronics and some truck accessories.Previous truck was a 95 Ford Ranger stx super cab 4x4. Good truck, hope this one is too. For certain it is roomier, more powerful and smoother riding.
  • iowabigguyiowabigguy Member Posts: 552
    You are going to have to change your handle now to quadnick. Welcome aboard! I'm curious, where in Nebraska are you from? I live in Council Bluffs and work in Omaha. Rick
  • bookittybookitty Member Posts: 1,303
    Spike, I have not heard from Ernie, but I sure would like to. I wonder how he likes his new job, and how he and his family are doing. What a great guy. Ernie did say he would be lurking in the forum, and Ernie, if you are out there, let us know.

    Bookitty
  • bookittybookitty Member Posts: 1,303
    A hardy welcome to all of you new members. We are happy to have you aboard.

    Bookitty
  • tarheeltimtarheeltim Member Posts: 2
    Hello, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Tim Jeffreys from Raleigh, NC. I just purchased my 2000 Dakota Club Cab 4x4 SLT on July 30. It has the following options: Customer preferred package (26G), SLT Plus Decor group, heavy duty service group, trailer tow group, overhead convenience group, two tone paint(Patriot blue/Lt Driftwood), 4.7 V-8 w/auto trans., anti-spin diff, sliding rear window, fog lamps, AM/FM CD player, leather steering wheel and 6x9 mirrors. Paid $400 below invoice (at least what I was shown as being invoice; it seemed to be in the ballpark) prior to $1000 rebate.
    Initially I was a little concerned about Dodge quality (this is my first one), especially with the negative Consumer Reports rating. Usually, I'm an "if it ain't Toyota, Nissan, or Honda, I don't want it". But this truck has everything that the others couldn't give me. The Frontier and Tacoma are just too small and the Tundra is just too expensive. The full size Fords, Chevys, and Rams are just too big for my purposes. This truck is just right. I also couldn't get around the fact that the Dakota is so daggone good looking! Anyway, I went ahead and got a 6 year/60,000 mile warranty it just for peace of mind, and since I felt like I got a good deal on the truck.
    I'm enjoying it immensely so far, I'm just not used to it's appetite for gas. The only options I've added are Weathertech vent shades, bedliner, and step shields. I'll probably end up getting some chrome tubular bed rails.
    Love the site and the feedback you guys offer. Sorry for getting long winded.
  • blakdakblakdak Member Posts: 19
    Welcome....and sometimes longer is better.
  • bookittybookitty Member Posts: 1,303
    Tim, your truck and deal sound great. You will love owning and driving a Dakota. I had a '95 Club cab with 5.2 and 5 speed with all of the goodies. I loved that truck. When I was looking for a 4 door truck, my wife suggested the Dakota as she knew how I felt about my '95. I now have a Quad and am more than pleased with it. Welcome to the club, it's great that you are here.

    Bookitty
  • bucky44bucky44 Member Posts: 19
    Anyone have 94 Dodge Dakota electrical schematics which they can post or email me? I have an electrical problem which involves the power windows, blower switch, and air bag sensor system. I recently purchased a Chilton's manual for the truck, but it appears to only cover the schematics for a basic truck and not one which has all the bells and whistles. Other brands of manuals are of no help either. Thanks.

    bucky4@helicon.net
  • bcarter3bcarter3 Member Posts: 145
    My name is Dick Carter and I live in Homestead, Florida (30 miles south of Miami) I just ordered a 2001 Club Cab Slt 4x2, Garnet/Slate, 4.7, Auto, Slt Plus, Pwr Overhead, Security, AM/FM CD, Leather Wheel, Pwr Seat, Bucket Seats, Heavy Duty Cool, Anti-Spin, 4 Wheel Antilock, Fog Lamps.

    slickwilliedj: I ended up giving them the 1000 deposit. Maybe they were suspicious because I knew more about the truck, options, and prices than they did. Anyway 23,800 turn key and I'm happy to finally get it on order.

    My sincere thanks to all of those that have contributed to my knowledge for the past year that I have been following these topics. I can understand why the Quad Cab is so popular. There was one in the showroom today and I almost changed my mind at the last moment. The Club Cab is more suited to my needs however.

    Am disappointed that the Service Manual for the 2001 is not available yet. Will have to keep checking. Parts Dept says that I can get the flares in two days! Heeere we go!!!!
  • bpeeblesbpeebles Member Posts: 4,085
    I hope you did not 'back down' on the shop manual. I made it clear that I expected a shop manual to be WRITTEN on the papers as part of the deal.

    When they became available I received one. (This was for a 2000 Dakota last year)
  • mailman54mailman54 Member Posts: 111
    Xenala: Tim, how are you liking that 00 4.7 R/C 4-wheel drive so far. Haven't heard from you in a while. Getting tired of hearing only about quad cabs and club cabs. I just went over 6,000 miles on my R/C. Love that 4.7 with the 3.92! I've had my truck since December, but only drive it in fair weather. I ended up keeping my 91 5.2 Dakota, rather than trading it in, and I have been driving it during foul weather. Got to keep the new one looking nice! I am thinking of getting an after market rear anti-sway bar, since the tire and handling package doesn't include one on the R/C. Actually, it handles pretty well already, but it could only get better with the rear sway bar. Looking forward to hearing from you again Tim. Keep on truckin!

    Mailman
  • themacguythemacguy Member Posts: 417
    bonnie, a_j and I are working on getting a regular cab and extended cab area for ya'll. Only thing is, we might want to come by and take a look-see now and again. a_j's been on an 'extended business trip' and has about 500 e:mails to wade thru until he finds the one that discusses this new topic thingy for ya'll. And poor ol' bonnie's just about wore plum out too. We'll keep you posted...
  • slickwilliedjslickwilliedj Member Posts: 252
    i've been considering those vent visors for my soon to arrive 01 sport q/c. i like the idea that they donot use glue that they have a flange a track if you will. i would like to hear your exp with this product.price paid, where did u buy,ease of install, quality of product etc thanks.also considering there hood deflector tey seem like high end product and supposed to be made in germany?
  • xena1axena1a Member Posts: 286
    Mailman - Thanks for asking. I'll post over in the General Topics area. See you there...

    Thermaguy - Can't blame the QC guys for being so active in their topic. They're excited about their trucks. That's great. Us RC and CC types do appreciate the consideration for our own topic. Thanks...
  • ohc_babyohc_baby Member Posts: 116
    If you call the number listed in your owner's manual and try to order a 2001 Factory Service Manual, there's one available, sort of. For the same price as a 2000 FSM, Chrysler sends out a 2000 FSM with a 2001 addendum that deals with all changes from 2000 to 2001. It also includes ODB II references for diagnosing the computer codes. Personally, I'm gonna wait and see if they get a fully-bound 2001 manual, but this still sounds like a good way to go.
  • tgr1tgr1 Member Posts: 92
    I work in Homestead. Are you buying from Spitzer Dodge? I bought a Gr.Caravan and my '97 Dodge Dakota there, but bought my 2000 quadcab elsewhere, because they wouldn't deal too much. I shopped the internet, and found two dealers, in Pompano Beach and St. Pete that were willing to sell near invoice. I bought from Carlysle Dodge in St. Pete, and saved about $900. Ordered in early November, built first week December, and picked it up 12/27/99. I knew I would be in St. Pete then anyway, since I spend the holidays with the in-laws every year up there. Anyway, good luck, you'll love the 4.7. I've got 13,000 miles on mine, and not one problem yet.
  • bcarter3bcarter3 Member Posts: 145
    Tom, I bought from Spitzer mostly for the convenience. I don't have the time or inclination to shop all of the dealers in the area. I spent some time with Dadeland but they were higher. Bottom line is I am satisfied with the deal and will not dwell on whether on not it was the best available. My only concern is whether or not the truck arrives as configured and undamaged. I don't think Spitzer's service has a good reputation but I do all my own service and repairs. Can't wait to get it on the road. My current truck is an 89 Mitsubishi with 185,000.
  • slickwilliedjslickwilliedj Member Posts: 252
    CAN U BE MORE SPECFIC ON THE SERVICE REPUTATION AT THE DEALER?I WILL PROBERLY TAKE IT TO DADELAND DODGE CAUSE ITS CLOSER BUT STILL WOULDLIKE TO HEAR YOUR OPTION?
  • slickwilliedjslickwilliedj Member Posts: 252
    sorry for the caps all gotta tape over that key
  • tiedyemilestiedyemiles Member Posts: 1
    another new member. 2000 white 4x4 4.7 with everything but the 6 way bucketseat.oh well. last vehicle 89 jetta gli 16v with an awsome sound system,[not boomy].im a big deadhead who loves clean crisp live music. anyway,im looking for info on installs for the dakota.i am very capable on installing anything, but i dont want to chop up the $ 22740 dakota(not even a week old. personal life; 3 kids ;1 wife;profesional furniture restorer in south eastern pa.
  • bookittybookitty Member Posts: 1,303
    Pat, welcome to the Dakota Owner's club. Although i cannot answer your query, there are folks here who can give you chapter and verse on almost any subject and I am certain that you will receive the
    information regarding sound upgrades. I have a 2000 Amber Fire Pearl SLT 4X4 Quad Cab with 4.7, 5 speed, 3.55 LSD, Tire and handling, tow package, rear slider, skid plates, engine block heater, leather wrapped wheel, power almost everything with overhead convenience group, heavy duty service package. In fact other than the sound upgrade, buckets and ABS (not to my personal liking) this truck has exactly what I need and/or want. I have added a Tuffliner, A.R.E. LSII fiber glass tonneau, Westin side bars and recently a Manik Eurogaurd (brush/grille guard). I reside in Eastern PA (Bucks County) and have a beach house on LBI, NJ. This is a great forum because it is made up of wonderful, kind and patient people. You will enjoy your time here. Welcome to the Dakota Owner's forum.

    Bookitty
  • ron35ron35 Member Posts: 134
    slickwilliedj - I have had both types of visors; two sets of ventvisors and the Weather Tech wind and rain deflectors. I would recommend the Weather Tech which as you noted are installed without adhesive tape. They are made in Germany and are marketed in the US by MacNeil automotive. I bought mine from MacNeils homepage (sorry I don't have the URL handy) but if you do a search on MacNeil Automtive you will find it easy. By the way the home page does have a video on installation which you can download to make it easier; it is not a difficult installation. Don't know about their bug deflector as I bought the Mopar version.
    Ron35
    Springfield, VA
  • ron35ron35 Member Posts: 134
    tiedyemiles - I'm not sure what you are looking to do audiowise but let me relay what I have done to my 2000 CC. I have the upgraded Infinty System with CD changer controls and a Mopar (Alpine) CD changer. I went this route after hearing many complaints about the reliabity of the in dash CD. The changer has been great; I loved it so much that I made a condition of my trade in to take it with me, it was initially installed in my 98 Ram. I initially upgraded the rear Infinty speakers with Pioneer TSA-1795 coaxials. I was so impressed with their sound (both better highs and lows) that I installed another set up front. The TSA-1795's are 6 3/4" so they are a perfect match and easy to install. I got my speakers from onlinestereo.com for $99 (that includes shipping).
    Crutchfield wanted $149 plus shipping. Even if you just install these speakers in the rear you have made a quantum leap forward.

    Ron35
    Springfield, VA
  • tarheeltimtarheeltim Member Posts: 2
    slickwilliedj - I really like the Weathertech vent shades, although I've never owned any of the other brands. Besides not requiring tape to install, I think they look much better than the others. They are lightly tinted and blend in with the windows such that they are not really noticeable (unlike the black ones). I purchased mine here locally from a performance shop for $52.00. They can be ordered directly from Weathertech for $44.95 a pair plus $8.00 shipping. The only downside I have noticed is a lot of wind noise on the driver's side. I don't know if it is just wind deflecting around the visor, or a leak of some sort. Anyway, I'll tolerate it since they look so good. Hope this helps.
  • steel45steel45 Member Posts: 21
    I've been reading the posts for approx. 2 months and decided it was time to join in.
    Picking up a 01, QC, 3.9, 5 speed, 4 X 2, 3.55 rearend, SLT, Black over silver, next week in NJ.
    the truck has been at the dealer for 5 weeks awaitng paper work and I am going nuts waiting.
    paper work delay due to the fact that this is a company vehicle that my company leases and the leasing company screwed up the paper work.
    also getting the 16 x 8 wheels power windows etc.
    Looking forward to joining in on the conversations in the future. Lovin the looks of the Dakota.
  • bookittybookitty Member Posts: 1,303
    Dan, welcome and we wish you the best. Are you from North, South or Central New Jersey? Nice to have a new member aboard. If you have questions and/or concerns, just post them and help will be on the way (if at all possible). Good luck with your new truck.

    Bookitty
  • tuvtesttuvtest Member Posts: 237
    Well, After lurking for months and waiting for finances to straiten out ( they never do...), I have bit the bullet and went to the dealer. I am now the proud owner of a piece of paper that says Dodge will build me a truck. It's a 2001 Dak QC, and I got it for invoice less $500 FB discount. I will list the details below.
    Now a little about me, I'm a lifelong Mopar fanatic and only strayed from the fold once ( 1988 Mustang Police Interceptor..pretty peppy, but not brutally fast). My employment (it's definatly not work) is as a product safety technician, which is a fancy way of saying I get paid to break things for a living and make sure you all don't get hurt. I'm a former part-time Firefighter/Paramedic and Dodge dealer employee. Hobbies include Cars(duh), woodworking,camping, looking for Mrs. She'll Do, and reading (especially anything Mopar or musclecar related. I live and work in the northern Chicago suburbs. I am also a member of the Chicago Mopar Connection car club and would encourage and others in the area to check us out.
    Anyway, enough about me, back to the truck.
    - 2001 Dodge Dakota Quad Cab Sport 4x4
    - 4.7L V-8
    - 5 speed stick
    - part-time 4x4
    - Bright Silver Paint
    - Sport Plus Pkg.
    - Heavy Duty Service
    - Towing Pkg.
    - 3.55 Sure-Grip
    - ABS
    - Rear defogger Pkg.
    - Deluxe Conv. Grp.
    - Power Conv. Grp.
    - Block Heater
    - Am/FM/CD Infinity Stereo
    - Alarm
    Planned Modifications
    - Sprayed in Bedliner
    - Wheels & Tires ( American Racing 767's and BFG All-terrrains)
    - Bed extender
    - Roof Rack
    - Mud Flaps
    - Cat-Back Exhaust (Gibson??)
    - Homemade Air Intake w/K&N
    - Euro Style grille guard (recommendations?? w/o headlite covers)
    - KC lights on above
    - CD changer
    Wow, sorry for the long post, but on last thing.
    I want to thank all the regulars and non-regulars (you know who you are) for sharing their knowledge and insight to all and making these groups a great place to spend some time.
  • bookittybookitty Member Posts: 1,303
    Harold, welcome to the owners club. You have a heck of a resume going for you. Enjoyed reading your post. Your truck sounds great, actually except for the "sounds" it is pretty much equipped like my 2000 SLT. Good luck with it, and we are all happy to have you aboard.

    Bookitty
  • steel45steel45 Member Posts: 21
    Hey Harold welcome aboard, I just joined yesterday.
    Thanks for the welcome Bookitty. I live in NW NJ, Warren/Hunterdon County line between Clinton & Phillipsburg. Truck is being delivered to Hackettstown, Johnson Chrysler/Dodge.
    I think my first option purchase may be nerf bars.
    With a Black over Silver body, which would look better, stainless or black bars? I'm afraid the stainless may blend in too much with the Silver bottom. Ball park figure, how much should I expect to pay for the bars?
    Also, I will be towing a 14' aluminum boat, not much weight. Should I install the trailer light hook-up myself or have it done. I'm not sure how complicated the hook-up is on these new vehicles.
    Expect to pick up the truck by the end of next week.
    YES I am anxious.
  • bigal31bigal31 Member Posts: 189
    First off welcome.
    The black would be my choice. They go well with my Flame red. I think it would look as good on the silver too (breaks it up).

    Most here have gone with Westin brand. www.atlantaauto.com $206.00 at my door in less than 48 hours (I live in Syracuse NY) they are out of the peach state..They also have a 1-800 number.

    Sorry this topic should be over at the accessories board..
    Allen-
  • bobsyveebobsyvee Member Posts: 63
    Good to see some Illinois boys here. If you see an Amber Fire w/Silver bottom Qcab around, it's probably me. I've only seen three trucks of that color, and none that are tu-tone. From your job description, I'm guessing you work at UL.
    Happy Quadding

    Jim
  • bookittybookitty Member Posts: 1,303
    Allen (bigal31)hit the nail on the head. I have the Westin side bars, and they are very strong and look good. actually, stainless has a tendency
    to yellow after a period of time when it is exposed to the elements. Some manufacturers offer chrome plated stainless, which sort of defeats the purpose. The side bars on my Expedition were made by Smittybilt and were a textured black. I like the Westin bars for strength, but liked that
    textured black, not available with the Westins. I'm quite familiar with Hunterdon County (Flemington area) as well as Phillipsburg. My wife used to live in Pen Argyl near Easton on the other side of the river.
  • tuvtesttuvtest Member Posts: 237
    You're close, I was at UL for ...too long. Now I'm at a German competitor, TUV Rheinland. Your Dak sounds good, Haven't seen you around, I'd remember that color combo. Maybe we'll run into each other (so to speak) one of these days.
  • gbrquadgbrquad Member Posts: 3
    Hello,

    My name is Tim and I live in Bay Area (Newark).
    I picked up my '01 QC 4x4 Sport 4x4 4.7l auto lsd
    3.55 t&h. I place my order on 8/22 and picked it up on 9/25. I've been lurking the QC boards for
    the pass couple of month and picked up a lot of good info that helped me make my choice to get the QC and just wanted to say thanks.

    Tim
  • fat_fendersfat_fenders Member Posts: 96
    Tim,

    Welcome to the Quad ranks. The longer you'll have it, the more you'll love it. Hope you get a chance to post some pictures for all of us to look at.

    fat_fenders
  • bookittybookitty Member Posts: 1,303
    Tim, congratulations and welcome aboard. What color is your truck? As fat_fenders said, you will absolutely love this truck. It is a real head turner as well. I am forever getting compliments on it (not me, just the darned truck).
    Good luck with it.

    Bookitty
  • gbrquadgbrquad Member Posts: 3
    Bookitty,

    Thanks to you and fat_fenders for welcoming
    me to the board. Being from Nebraska originally
    I had to get the Flame Red hence the login
    gbrquad - Go Big Red Quad. I already love
    the way this truck looks and runs. As for
    being a real head turner I don't mind just as
    long as the better half doesn't.

    gbrquad
  • carls5carls5 Member Posts: 62
    Good to see another N. Calif on this Forum. Welcome and if you see an intense blue QC w/Stockwell cab hi shell in the San Ramon area give a wave. Happy truck'n, I know that you will enjoy you truck.
    Carl
  • mrjakemrjake Member Posts: 27
    Well, after a long hard week-end, I'm going to bed tonight with my new dakota sitting in the driveway. I went out to the dealer today and picked up a 00' CC, 4X4, 4.7L, auto, 3.92, all black with SLT plus package, heavy duty service, overhead console, 31" tires, and infinity sounds. I really appreciate all of the great posts in here. Reading them, with an occasional entry, really helped me in making my decision to buy this truck. 51 miles on it after the first day, and I'm looking forward to many more. Thanks again for all the good dakota knowledge.
  • fat_fendersfat_fenders Member Posts: 96
    Isn't it a great feeling, finally bringing one home! I've had mine for about 6 weeks and 2200+ miles. It just may be the best vehicle I've ever had. I think I ended up with about 75 miles my first day. Please be sure to post pictures when you get a chance.

    Keep on Quadin'

    fat_fenders
  • tuvtesttuvtest Member Posts: 237
    It's finally in! Picked up my '01 QC 4x4 Friday. It was tough babying the truck until I got the tires switched (see Accessories board). But This truck is great. It's a Bright Silver Sport detailed in an earlier posting. Never had such a good dealer experience either. Now that it's over I feel safe in posting the dealer's name. If you are shopping for a Dodge in the Norther Illinois area, go to Miller-Krueger Dodge in Libertyville and talk to Barney (no, not the big purple guy). I was treated great and there was no fight,or haggle, I got Invoice right off the bat and no pressure for the std dealer profit extra B.S. ( undercoating, paint protection, ect.) Ordered 9-7-00 and got it 9-21-00, three weeks, not bad. Almost ran into problems becaus of the Farm Bureau, but they are even floating the $ on that until my 1 mo. is up. Well got to go start wrenching now, she's calling me.
  • bookittybookitty Member Posts: 1,303
    Hey guys, congratulations and the best of luck with your trucks. Both trucks sound beautiful. Saw my first silver job the other day and it looks cool. Nice to see happy people.

    Bookitty
  • bcarter3bcarter3 Member Posts: 145
    Picked up my new 01 CC today. 4.7, Auto, SLT, SLT Plus, Garnet/Slate, Buckets, Pwr Seat, Security, 4 Antilock, O'head Console, CD, LSD, Fogs. 29 Days from order. Added plus: when I went to pick it up the salesman told me I was getting an additional $500 rebate!! Installed the flares this evening, looks great. The rear wheels extend out farther from the bed on the right side-about three quarters of an inch. Will check it out when I have time. One thing that is really strange. Well not that strange for around here!! When I got the truck home I was looking around under the hood and found what looked like fresh oil on the right side of the radiator shroud. Worried about a leak I started looking around for the source. Some idiot had serviced the wiper reservoir with an unknown quantity of oil!! Now as most of you already know, the reservoir is part of the radiator shroud and removing it to clean it will be a major job. At this time I have deactivated the washer. I will probably take care of it myself. I can't bear the thought of what damage they could do trying to fix this problem. Did not spoil my day though. This is a great vehicle!!! Now I know how all you guys feel!!
  • steel45steel45 Member Posts: 21
    Congratulations! I've had my 01 QC for 8 days now and have 1100 miles on it. Lovin' every minute of it.
    My right rear tire also sticks out approx. 1" or so. Early posts attribute this to the bed being out of line. I'll let you know what the dealer says in a few weeks when I take it in for service.
    Safe Truckin'!
  • slickwilliedjslickwilliedj Member Posts: 252
    congrats 1st off. i too have notice right wheel on my q/c sticking farther out then left approx 1 inch i measured from inside wheel well against bed to outer most tread grove in tire i have t& h pkg. and l is 10 1/2 nad right is 11 1/2 inch. plan on taking truck to dealer tues for this and front align... also there is a piece on black plastic to the left of the radaitor covering some tubing from the a/c and none on the right. is yours the same cause looks like they could have missed one there also no underhood light and i have the light pkg. is yours the same? see also post 944 dakota owners
  • fat_fendersfat_fenders Member Posts: 96
    Interesting note. My 2001 QC only has the black plastic to the left of the radiator as you're facing it. I don't think there's a reason for one on the right.

    Also, I too have the light package and do not have the under hood light. My dad's 2000 RC has the underhood light. The holes are there for one, it just doesn't exist. Sure would be nice to have one there! DC cutting corners or maybe we just don't "need" one??? :-)

    Anyone else?

    fat_fenders
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