Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

ab348 · November 2020

That coupe appears to be a very handsome vehicle. I imagine it is far from fast, but it still appears to be a nice cruiser.

fintail · November 2020

The coupes were trimmed to a much higher spec than most fintails with standard (I believe) leather, much more wood, and cost significantly more (then and now) - probably a 60% price premium when new. Under the hood, it's the same as a 220SE fintail - you won't win too many drag races, but it'll still move down the highway just fine.

steine13 · November 2020

I'm old enoug to still remember seeing them on the street. Early Pontons had the vertical speedometers. Elegant.

fintail · November 2020

Fintails had the vertical speedometer (I know this thing, having been looking at it for 25 years now), here's a full view of one with the flat top horn ring on slightly later cars:

AC is always under-dash, dealer or owner installed:

I think 4 cyl Pontons had a round speedometer, 6cyl cars had a horizontal unit.

xwesx · November 2020

4-speed! I'd stop by too, if it wasn't "several" hours away.

fintail · November 2020

4 speed could be had in fintail sedans, but always on the tree until 1965 or so. For coupes, always on the floor.

Caught a break in the weather today, dry and even some sun. Amazing, as it snowed all morning yesterday, but the wind and warmer weather dried everything out. I went for a cruise around town with the ski rack. Initially they were rattling and making terrible noise, so I pulled over, re-did them, and no noise. I do seem to notice a bit of extra wind noise from them above 35-40 mph or so. I cleaned the tires this morning, first time since the trip, still looking good for being nearly 8 years old now. Running fine, no issues, turned a few heads:

ab348 · November 2020

Fin, have you seen the TV commercial M-B is airing lately regarding the 1962 Argentine Grand Prix (looks more like a road rally), won by a fintail driven by a lady named Ewy Rosqvist? It has some cool vintage footage.

fintail · November 2020

I didn't know about that (just cut the cord), must be this one:

https://youtu.be/tmPUFUvhErQ

Fintails dominated competitions in the early 60s, they were just that advanced with FI and their overall construction. The car in that Argentine race is a 300SE, one step up from my car, but a big step - 50% more power. It was the top model fintail, and is quite rare.

Rosqvist and Ursula Wirth won many races during that era in fintails. Matchbox even recently released a model to commemorate them (have yet to find this in stock):

sda · November 2020

fintail said:
4 speed could be had in fintail sedans, but always on the tree until 1965 or so. For coupes, always on the floor.

Caught a break in the weather today, dry and even some sun. Amazing, as it snowed all morning yesterday, but the wind and warmer weather dried everything out. I went for a cruise around town with the ski rack. Initially they were rattling and making terrible noise, so I pulled over, re-did them, and no noise. I do seem to notice a bit of extra wind noise from them above 35-40 mph or so. I cleaned the tires this morning, first time since the trip, still looking good for being nearly 8 years old now. Running fine, no issues, turned a few heads:

Looks great

ab348 · November 2020

Yes, that’s the commercial. I note with interest that her car appears to have been equipped with a curtain for the rear window.

fintail · November 2020

Maybe to block the sun or something. That reminds me, I still like the idea of those period accessory rear window blinds, which seem to have been a thing mostly in Oz and South Africa,

fintail · November 2020

Took the old dear out what I think was maybe a 30-40 mile drive today. Drove at 50-60 on back roads a bit, noticed no blowby. The ski rack makes a bit of wind of noise at certain speeds and angles, maybe it will be a winter-only decoration. Got several waves and kind looks, while at the same time I got to test the horn a couple times at blithering morons, it all balances out. Also had to give the car a quick wipedown after the drive, as one road was slathered with de-icer - looked like it had rained. I got off that road fast - idiocy. Car was looking good while we had sun:

sda · November 2020

fintail said:
Took the old dear out what I think was maybe a 30-40 mile drive today. Drove at 50-60 on back roads a bit, noticed no blowby. The ski rack makes a bit of wind of noise at certain speeds and angles, maybe it will be a winter-only decoration. Got several waves and kind looks, while at the same time I got to test the horn a couple times at blithering morons, it all balances out. Also had to give the car a quick wipedown after the drive, as one road was slathered with de-icer - looked like it had rained. I got off that road fast - idiocy. Car was looking good while we had sun:

Did you find a remote garage for it or is it garaged at your apartment complex? The new ride stays outside?

tjc78 · November 2020

I love your history with that car and how you can enjoy it.

Whenever I see it, it makes me wish I kept my 89 Town Car.

I’ve been casually looking for a replacement. I can’t decide if I want an 88-89 TC or a 77-79 Continental.

I think when I’m ready it will come down to the specific example that I find.

sda · November 2020

In retrospect there are several cars I wish I kept. Mainly convertibles. My 85 Renault Alliance DL with all options (good luck with parts and service), 87 VW Cabriolet Wolfsburg Edition, triple white with GTI wheels and a beautiful white leather interior, 92 Mazda Miata. All were 5 speeds and fun to drive in their own way. The Renault could take speed bumps like no other car I’ve had. I have a soft spot for my college driver, 76 Pontiac Sunbird, V6, 5sp, ac, luxury interior, sport wheels.

stickguy · November 2020

I had a couple I should have kept or did miss, but nothing crazy. Only sold my Mazda 626 because I got wandering eye at 90k miles, and was tired of motorized belts. But I loved that car. My Accord, should have kept it and just gotten another car for the kid. Should have kept the Maxima SE longer too, that could have been a long term car.

I am more likely to regret cars I bought (had a few but mostly early on) and mostly, ones I almost got but didn't end up pulling the trigger on!

fintail · November 2020

Conveniently, I found a garage across the street. I dealt directly with the owner/developer of the building where I live, and he has a building about 30 seconds away on foot. I mentioned I needed an extra garage, and he said he had an extra there (surprisingly few here seem to care about garages, or don't want to cram their Jeep or Toyota 4x4 into one). It works out well, just walk over to the car.

sda said:

Did you find a remote garage for it or is it garaged at your apartment complex? The new ride stays outside?

fintail · November 2020

It's weird to think I bought the car when I was 18, and I sometimes feel like a broken down old man now . That at this date in 1995, I had this car.

Seller's remorse is tough. For a long time I regretted selling the W126, as it was pretty, but it wasn't perfect , and was miled up. Similar regret for the E55, as they are rare and have a cult following, but I just can't keep more than 2 cars.

tjc78 said:
I love your history with that car and how you can enjoy it.

Whenever I see it, it makes me wish I kept my 89 Town Car.

I’ve been casually looking for a replacement. I can’t decide if I want an 88-89 TC or a 77-79 Continental.

I think when I’m ready it will come down to the specific example that I find.

fintail · November 2020

The ski rack sprouted skis:

I went to some thrift shops/antique malls, and found some wooden skis at a reasonable price. These are old cross country skis, and almost appear to be new old stock - only the lightest of use, not what I would expect with cross country skis contacting each other all the time. They are hickory, made in Norway. I showed this to my accessory nut friend, who is going to get me some new rubber straps, as he thinks these aren't safe - but it seemed sound to me. Now I need to think about getting another pair for the other side, or putting a wood hockey stick or two on it, perhaps. And if the car didn't get enough looks and comments already, the skis kicked it up a notch - today's drive was not for the self-conscious. Car also fired right up as usual and ran fine, I treated it to some Chevron today, as it has been on Costco gas lately.

sda · November 2020

Fintail still looks so purposeful and quietly elegant. Timeless.

texases · November 2020

We used wooden cross country skis for years in Anchorage, starting in '83. They still look good.

fintail · November 2020

Fintails had a long period of not being a beloved design - I think the fins and quickly dated design put people off. But now they are cult item, and maybe time has been kind to the design. For my car, the color might be part of it, too.

I never got into skiing when I was a kid, mostly too flat when I lived in a snowy area, and my parents weren't into it. I was thinking the pair I got might still be usable, but I wouldn't risk it. Probably period correct for the car though.

xwesx · November 2020

fintail said:
Fintails had a long period of not being a beloved design - I think the fins and quickly dated design put people off. But now they are cult item, and maybe time has been kind to the design. For my car, the color might be part of it, too.

I never got into skiing when I was a kid, mostly too flat when I lived in a snowy area, and my parents weren't into it. I was thinking the pair I got might still be usable, but I wouldn't risk it. Probably period correct for the car though.

Agreed... great as an accessory for the car, but not ones to use!

texases · November 2020

"Agreed... great as an accessory for the car, but not ones to use!"

Aw, and miss all the fun of picking out the right Swix wax to use, depending on temperature???

Michaell · November 2020

Not sure if this would work for skis, but all the surfers in CA would use this on their surfboards.

fintail · December 2020

I have some hockey stick wax, I wonder if that would do anything.

Funny thing, a fintail in Spokane has appeared for sale in the facebook fintail groups. The seller, a youngster, has priced it optimistically, while providing inadequate photos and a very brief description - so he's being raked over the coals. And then this really gets people howling:

I'll guess around 1978 or something probably, someone cut a hole in the roof. Fintail people tend to be purists, and this photo got some funny reactions. I also notice the plastic bag on the passenger side is from the old Spokane MB dealer, probably gone for 20 years now.

Other photos are of this quality, so you can imagine when one wants 9K for the car with few details, the peanut gallery is having a field day:

He won't even state the year or model (looks like a pre-63 220S sitting on later 14-15" wheels), and has few other details, with the typical "inquire for more details" reply, as he probably knows the peanut gallery will really get into the details.

From what I can see, this car might be in the 5-6K (he's asking 9K, maybe expecting lowballers) range unless there's something special going on.

sda · December 2020

Looks like it has a/c. Needs whitewalls like fintail. Color, meh.

fintail · December 2020

Yep, that's a period aftermarket AC unit, dealer-installed most likely. Not sure if I'd want that drawing down power from the engine.

Another pic from the seller, maybe put it under "how not to sell a car":

tjc78 · December 2020

Cloth was pretty rare in those, wasn’t it. Most I see are Tex.

fintail · December 2020

I'm pretty sure the cloth in that car is not OEM. There were a few cloth options - a plain pattern, loud pattern, and high end cars could have a woolcloth with a pattern on the bolsters. Tex is most common, especially on 4 cyl cars. Some cars had cloth, a few paid extra for leather, but as vinyl was the cool choice in the 60s anyway, Tex was a good fit.

That car also appears to have the accessory piece that goes in the console, making for 3-across seating (some early fintails were spec'd with a front bench, but this is really rare).

sda · December 2020

I noticed stitching on the left side of the dash cover near the instrument pod. Is that original?

fintail · December 2020

As far as I know, no. The dash pads on these cars are very prone to cracking - hard to find one without at least a small flaw . I've seen a few dash caps for them, as the original part has been NLA for ages, and even if you found one, it is very labor-intensive to switch out.

sda said:
I noticed stitching on the left side of the dash cover near the instrument pod. Is that original?

fintail · December 2020

Should skis be mounted front first, or does it matter:

I like mine rear-facing, less initial wind resistance.

texases · December 2020

Rear-facing to keep the bottoms of the tips from collecting the nasty road dirt/spray.

sda · December 2020

fintail said:
Should skis be mounted front first, or does it matter:

I like mine rear-facing, less initial wind resistance.

That looks miserably cold. brrr

ab348 · December 2020

fintail said:
Should skis be mounted front first, or does it matter:

I like mine rear-facing, less initial wind resistance.

Plus much-needed downforce over the rear wheels at speed! :laughing:

isellhondas · December 2020

fintail said:
I have some hockey stick wax, I wonder if that would do anything.

Funny thing, a fintail in Spokane has appeared for sale in the facebook fintail groups. The seller, a youngster, has priced it optimistically, while providing inadequate photos and a very brief description - so he's being raked over the coals. And then this really gets people howling:

I'll guess around 1978 or something probably, someone cut a hole in the roof. Fintail people tend to be purists, and this photo got some funny reactions. I also notice the plastic bag on the passenger side is from the old Spokane MB dealer, probably gone for 20 years now.

Other photos are of this quality, so you can imagine when one wants 9K for the car with few details, the peanut gallery is having a field day:

He won't even state the year or model (looks like a pre-63 220S sitting on later 14-15" wheels), and has few other details, with the typical "inquire for more details" reply, as he probably knows the peanut gallery will really get into the details.

From what I can see, this car might be in the 5-6K (he's asking 9K, maybe expecting lowballers) range unless there's something special going on.

For me, the Mickey Mouse sunroof would be a MAJOR turnoff!

fintail · December 2020

People in the fintail group were howling about it - as if the seller's lackluster presentation and hints of a bad attitude weren't enough.

Virtually impossible to undo a mod like that unless you want to transplant an entire roof panel and get a headliner.

isellhondas said:

For me, the Mickey Mouse sunroof would be a MAJOR turnoff!

stickguy · December 2020

fintail said:
People in the fintail group were howling about it - as if the seller's lackluster presentation and hints of a bad attitude weren't enough.

Virtually impossible to undo a mod like that unless you want to transplant an entire roof panel and get a headliner.

isellhondas said:

For me, the Mickey Mouse sunroof would be a MAJOR turnoff!

you people need to relax a bit. Back in those days, pup up sunroofs were fairly comment on all kinds of cars. And like you have said yourself, these aren't ultra rare, high dollar collectibles.

fintail · December 2020

I wasn't upset by it, rather, amused. I told the others there the same thing - in the 70s and 80s, these things happened. And they weren't even relatively affordable collectibles then, just used cars with a fancy front end.

stickguy said:

you people need to relax a bit. Back in those days, pup up sunroofs were fairly comment on all kinds of cars. And like you have said yourself, these aren't ultra rare, high dollar collectibles.

fintail · December 2020

It appears the dry weather pattern here might change by next weekend, so I braved the somewhat grimy roads and took the old dear out for a spin today. It was around 20F when I started the car - car didn't seem pleased, but after a few seconds all cylinders were in agreement. The roof rack with skis I think doubles the attention received by the car, almost a bit much, but it is amusing. There's a chance this could be it before a hibernation period, if the predictions hold:

Pic taken downtown, as I was inquiring about a recliner I ordered almost 2 months ago and still hasn't arrived, as we are in 2020 and everything is insane.

fintail · December 2020

Nice fintail brings decent money (for a fintail) on BaT - maybe a 25K+ car in Germany, possibly enough meat left on the bone for export

And it's been awhile, some local CL finds:

I wonder what's wrong

Neat but not for that money

Cheap

Topic of recent discussion, with the worst possible option

Grandma's favorite car

Eventually should be saved

I wonder how bad it was damaged

Cool but needs tidying

It's not the 90s anymore, good luck with sale

Maybe a fun cruiser for the money

Could probably get it for 3K

Remember how cheap these were once

Luxury sedan

Interesting, but a little dear at this point in time

Probably rarer than the fastback today

Gentle patina

Green

Project car hell? Nice hood scoops

I actually saw this a few weeks ago, didn't look bad.

xwesx · December 2020

Wow. That Bobcat is in way worse condition, overall, than the '84 Pinto wagon I had. Bobcat wins on being operable, Pinto wins on everything else. I would say that the buyer definitely scored a bargain on my car, as my brother let it go for $800.

tjc78 · December 2020

The 67 Riv seems like a good deal if it’s as advertised.

The Aurora is just awful.

Olds Wagon is cool, but I bet would be a money pit.

explorerx4 · December 2020

Fintail evil twin's car.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGny3fKnxwM&t=29s

fintail · December 2020

Can't stand that blow off noise, and I am not a fan of the stance look, but pretty cool idea for a sleeper. Stanced fintails (always on air suspension, I think, as the cars are easy to adapt to it) are a thing, I've seen numerous online. I'm more of a fan of originality, but this is far superior to the car rotting away in a field or being scrapped, so I'll take it.

fintail · January 2021

Dry weather this weekend, warmer than normal, took the old dear out after hibernating for 5 weeks or so. Fired right up and ran fine - I was a little concerned, but I guess cold is easier on batteries than heat (the battery is from 2014). Roads were pretty decent, other than some sand and grit on hills, and just a little runoff from remaining snow piles. Got a number of waves and thumbs up, and a ugy a yellow H2 pulled over to talk to me about the car. Gotta take advantage of clear roads when I can, as some weather models show it getting cold again in the next week or two. Now I need to find a new scenic/neutral pic location:

lemko1968 · January 2021

Anybody reckless and self-destructive enough to tackle this one?

texases · January 2021

If it looks that good on the outside, I can't imagine how nice the interior is!

tjc78 · January 2021

Probably a good candidate for the “patina” look that’s kind of popular these days. Rub it with some linseed oil and drop a 350/ turbo 400 in it.

Project Cars--You Get to Vote on "Hold 'em or Fold 'em"

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