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Dodge Dakota: Problems & Solutions
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Comments
I will be the first to admit I have been very harsh with respect to my experience with the Dakota. I had high expectations because of past experience with mopars. Recall too, that I have been most vocal in praise for what Chrysler produced in the past in terms of quality and reliability. I guess once you have good success with a line of cars, one tends to expect this going forward.
Suffice it to say, Chrysler needs to be (and probably has been many times) taken to task for their fumbles in recent years. Its already happening in the arena called the marketplace. Personally, I would love to see yet another phonenix like rise from the ashes to greatness. It can be done but not by hollowing out what once was a great producer of cars and trucks. Not by decontenting the product. Not by choosing the lowest bidder for parts.
I suppose I took it too personally(the dakota) but darn it, when its my cash on the line and my financial outlay, I expect the best. Chrysler, in this instance, didn't deliver.
I have no argument at all with anything you've written. Chrysler's management seems to have drifted to the Ford/GM style where the stock holders were the most important goal.
I view your participation in this forum has proof that people can be very objective, despite your personal experience. You are obviously an honest person and the type everyone would like to see serve on a jury. That, my good friend, is intended to be the sincerest compliment.
Chrysler is no different from any of the automobile manufacturers. They've all made mistakes, some intentional excursions led by the bean counters, others unintentional.
I will say, and I suspect you are or might be of the same opinion, that the Chrysler of old (pre-Iaccoca) was a strong engineering company and actually produced a superior product through most of its history. The Iaccoca's of the world would argue that it didn't get Chrysler anywhere to actually be that fine engineering company, and from just a sales perspective (if that's the measurement standard) then he'd be right. But I also suspect that people like you and I are not impressed much by who sells the most.
Although not a habit for me and always dangerous, let me try this:
You are between the age of 45 and 57
You are in a technical field
You are a better than average reader
Your politics tend to be conservative, but muted
You are generally recognized has having little male ego
Best regards,
Dusty
I actually do perform technical work.....application support to be exact and I hold a B.S. degree in education along with two microsoft certifications.
My reading is not nearly as good as when I attended college and grad school but I gravitate towards works on the automotive business and read voraciously on business happenings in Fortune, Forbes, and businessweek.
Pretty much conservative but certainly pro labor along with pro business.......a diversity that is not easily explained however I feel both can and need to succeed so that we all may enjoy a strong economy. Thus, my very pointed and strongly negative opinion on WTO, NAFTA, and other "oursourcing" adventures. Profits yes, but not at the expense of people. There is a balance here.........
You are right, not much ego on my part although I am proud of my achievements and try to be an asset in terms of knowledge and experience be it here or in personal relationships.
And I am short on patience, detest meetings, detest trivial details, prefering instead to focus on the larger picture yet always mindful of the pieces that need to fit together to make a task successful. I have been quoted as saying "Give me the Reader's digest version of the events........"
I can dirty my hands, hunt, fish but am just as comfortable in a Dior shirt at a formal dinner sipping wine instead of guzzling beer. I cannot read a blueprint nor can I add 2 and 2 without a calculator but I can read a balance sheet and understand, even in dick and jane terms, what P&L means to a business.
I tend to be on the side that believes most fortune 500 executives are way overpaid in light of their "contributions" to a company. Yet I am keenly aware that good pay and benefits is how, in most cases, you attract top flight talent to run an organization. Still there are exceptions and Southwest airlines is a good example of this.
I like shareholders and accountants as people; I have issues when they constantly demand ROI and cost cutting when those are short term strategies that often injure the long term health of the company.
Yes, I am not overly impressed with sales figures as I am with thoughtful design, good manufacturing and good service. You nailed me on that one! I am much more interested in how a car is made rather than how many were sold.
I believe in buy american but recognize that other nations produce fantastic quality in their efforts to compete on the world market. I believe that this will be a never ending battle as we stake our claim in the world economy during the 21st century.
And finally, I never did like the 45RFE! Never have, probably never will. Sorry, it just seemed to over engineered and was a complex result of simple task to transfer power from the engine to the rear wheels. But hey, maybe just maybe the 545RFE will be better. Lessons are constantly learned and I am sure the fellows in auburn hills are learning theirs.......:)
Now lets see...........1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2......yup I got that one memorized! Left bank from front of car was even cylinders, right bank were the odd cylinders.
PS you are totally correct on Ford parts......jeez.......their numbering system was a joke and you had to know, in certain cases, WHEN the damn car rolled off the assembly line. Did you know the 351W engine could be had with either a cast iron or aluminum water pump, depending on HF II mood the day it came off the assembly line? Yes, he delved down into nit picking details such as water pump design during his days as Ford Chairman.
Remember yellow, blue, green, or brown grommet color on the ECM on 1970's Fords? What did good old mopar use? Five or four pin and a four pin ECM would work on a five pin connector! No color, no needing to know when it came off the line.
Ah the simple days.........
Your business attitude is remarkably similar to mine. I, too, am involved in the education business...sort of. I'm currently responsible for developing service manuals and training programs for one of my company's products.
I also have a broad range of work experience.
"I can dirty my hands, hunt, fish but am just as comfortable in a Dior shirt at a formal dinner sipping wine instead of guzzling beer."
Ditto.
Yes, I remember the color coded Ford parts. Even worse on transmissions. You had to be careful reading those CZAZ, CAZZ, CZZA, etc. You could find a drive shaft in your hand when all you really needed was a choke pull-off diaphragm.
If you could memorize 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 you knew the firing order of nearly every Chrysler V8 engine ever built.
I once bet a guy that I could remove a valve lifter from any (then current) Chrysler engine WITHOUT removing the intake manifold. He didn't believe me. He lost!
All my bests,
Dusty
Thanks
The only thing you can do to help reduce reoccourance of uneven pad wear is to perform PMs on your brakes. (PM= Preventive Maintenance)
Personally, every couple years, I pull the wheels and remove the calipers 'as if' I was replacing the pads. I take that oppertunity to clean everything up, file the sliders and ensure that everything has been wearing evenly.
I did a PM on my brakes this past summer. (2000 Dak) The fronts were found to be wearing evenly. The rears were cleaned up and the automatic adjusters were removed and lubed with antiseeze lube. I was training my Nepheu about brakes as I did the PM in my dirt driveway.
In your above append you suggest that only the inner pads were doing the braking. This is incorrect. ALL of the pads were doing the braking. The inner pads wore out prematurly because they were dragging. They were dragging because they were not fully releasing. This is often detectable by feeling the lugnuts for heat after driving. Dragging brakes can lead to warped rotors.
I would expect that your MPG will be measuarably better now that your brakes are not dragging.
There is one thing that could cause the insides to drag and it not be a sticky caliper. The rubber lines from the caliper to the junction at the steel line is sometimes a cause. What happens is the rubber material inside becomes sofened and swells, reducing the inside diameter to zero at zero pressure. This will not cause a problem when applying the brakes because as pressure builds the inside diameter opens to transmit pressure to the caliper. However, when your foot comes off of the brake pedal and the pressure drops inside the rubber line, the inside diameter collapses again to block the complete release of pressure in the caliper. Hence, you get some inside pad dragging.
This happens so slowly that to the person who drives the vehicle every day you don't notice the slow building of the symptoms and you are continually become accustomed to it.
Good luck,
Dusty
Dusty
Or might be a wheel bearing but in my experience wheel bearings make noise hot or cold.
Any way to check the hose problem you talked about? The pistons retracted easily with a clamp. Any other ideas? I have not driven much on my new brakes yet and the cold weather here in Vermont doesn't let me easily work on things or feel for heat.
This is the very same stuff you should use on any sparkplug threads. (Car, lawnmower, chainsaw... etc)
You are correct when you suggest that it was the cast-rails where the problem was. This area is subject to roadsalt and once it starts to rust, the pads tend to create a 'rut' in the cast-rails. Then, the pads may be stuck in that rut rather than sliding the minute amount they need to when the brakes are released.
When I got the Raybestos quietstop (ceramic-based) pads, They came with lube and many various-thickness shims. The shims are tiny stainlesssteel thingies that snap onto the ends of the pads. This provides a stainless-steel sliding area on those cast rails you mention.
This SS sliding area should reduce the chances of the pads getting 'stuck' on the cast-rails.
I have a 2002 Dak quad cab with the 4.7L, 4 speed auto, and 3.92 limited slip differential. I've had it in for repair 4 times, the last time the local Chrysler rep drove it.
My largest complaint: singing noise from rear at 74-76 mph crusing. I think it's the differential. The dealer replaced the ring and pinion on my first visit and the noise went away. But it came back in 3 months.
Chrysler rep says it's a normal noise. Funny, my 1999 Grand Cherokee with Tracloc didn't sing. My Nissan Maxima didn't sing. My Ford Taurus didn't sing. My Mazda 626 didn't sing.
So the dealer pretends he can't hear it and the chrysler rep says it's normal. Short of hiring an attorney, I'm stuck unless one of you knows of a solution. A special gear oil? Replace the differential with a quality piece, one that doesn't sing or go CLUNK?
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
-Eric
The differential (3.92 LSD) on my 02 QC started singing between 30 and 50 MPH at about 29K miles. The dealer replaced everything except the axle shafts and LSD unit at about 34K. At 38K it is still holding up.
If the noise came back after 3 months, I would suspect an incorrectly setup ring and pinion. They can be tricky to set up correctly. Also, break-in of a new ring and pinion is critical to longevity. Randy's Ring and Pinion (http://www.randysringandpinion.com/tech/techind.html) has good advice on break-in procedures. Most dealer's won't give you any specifics on break-in other than don't tow anything. At least mine didn't. You mentioned a clunking noise. Is this also from the rear end? If so, it probably isn't a good sign.
I would aggressively pursue it, since the vehicle is still under warranty. You have a few options:
1) You could try a different dealer.
2) Since you have some warranty left, you can let it go for a while and hopefully it will get much worse or maybe fail completely.
3) Consult an attorney to see what legal recourse you may have.
I'm sure there are other members of this forum who might have experience with this type of situation.
KD
Then again, I've seen U-joints puke that never vibrated.
You might be able to diagnose the difference by counting the squeak event if you can get the thing to make the noise at very low speed. Many times (not aways) a wheel bearing will squeak only once a revolution. A U-joint will probably do it 3-4 times per wheel revolution.
This is not a foolproof diagnostic test, but it does work.
Regards,
Dusty
Best regards,
Dusty
It's possible that there's enough small debris in the lines that they slow down and stop at the nozzle in very low temps. The only resolution might be to use compressed air to clean them out. Or, you've got some punky washer fluid. I have had fluid in the past that froze on extremely cold night but was fine in the AM.
Stay warm!
Regards,
Dusty
1 Push compressed air through the tubes and outlets.
2 Use a good quality windshield washer juice.
3 Stay here in FL far away from Western NY, and New England.
Bookitty
The Rain-X seems to work well at cutting the morning windshield frost/ice (truck sits outside in central PA) and helps in wet-weather visibility. Although these alternatives are a little more expensive than the generic blue stuff, the "start-up and go" aspect is worth it to me. Also it has eliminated system freeze ups, which did occur in another one of my vehicles recently.
Spike, what do you think of the Rain-X orange stuff? I've had one person say they thought it was more effective.
Bests,
Dusty
It does clean the windshield of bird doo-doo, mud, etc. Two weekends ago, it was about 55 degrees and really raining here in PA. I noticed that the windshield's rain shedding improved after a let loose a squirt or two of washer fluid. This past weekend, it dropped to around +5 to 10 degrees F and the fluids didn't freeze up.
If anything bad happens, I'll post.
Thanks for your reply regarding my singing differential. I've written 4 letters to Chrysler, I've received 2 return letters and had 3 phone conversations with them. The final response from Chrysler is "If the dealer says it's broken and he can't fix it, then we enter the settlement phase."
So after all the hassle I've been through, if the dealer denies a problem exists, I'm stuck with it. Like I said, I have to either hire an attorney or fix the problem myself.
The other problem I'm having, the suspension popping, turns out to be metal-on-metal contact under certain circumstances. This is documented on at least one website, but the dealer has been denying I have a problem.
Christ, what's the point in going to a dealer if he lies to you? If he had said, "The popping is a harmless interference, let me show you." I would have said, "Fine." But he makes me bring the vehicle back 3 times, and each time he denys that I have a popping sound. This is just a runaround, he's hoping I'll go away.
It was a bad time to buy a Chrysler, just as they start to have it rough financially. Part of their solution appears to be putting the screws to owners on warranty repairs.
-Eric
If at all feasible, I would try a different dealer. Some dealers aren't very interested in pursuing warranty work due to the fixed amount Chrysler pays them for a repair. If they think they will loose money, they may try to blow you off.
As far as the front end noises are concerned, do they happen only when the wheels are in the full right or left position? If so, it probably is the steering stops on the control arm rubbing against the frame. The fix is to put some grease on the contact surface. My Dakota, as well as my old Toyota, had this problem.
I wonder if another dealer will pull up my Chrysler VIN history on his computer and decide it's a losing proposition. Maybe I should call another dealer(s) and discuss the singing differential and feel him out on his knowledge/willingness to look at it.
I think you're right, Chrysler puts the screws to the dealer regarding warranty repairs, so why should the dealer want to help the customer? In the end, Chrysler's rep will suffer. I'll buy a Tundra next time.
Yes, the suspension popping seems to be alleviated by greasing the contact areas. But why does it take the internet to learn these things? I think I know why. Chrysler has coached the dealer on what to say and what not to say. Lesson 1, "Never explain to a customer what causes a problem, just try to fix it. If you can't fix the problem, deny it exists."
Thanks again, Sunburn. I'll stop venting now.
-Eric
I was a field representative for GM. Believe it or not, I think Chrysler does want you to be a satisfied customer. Now Chrysler can make mistakes on the execution end of the produxt -- from design to assembly -- but you are dealing with a post sale condition and it is the dealer who is pretty much in control.
I don't know if you know this or not, but if they have worked on the differential once before and a problem has resurfaced within a period of time, the dealer can't collect any warranty reimbursement because the manufacturer has a right to expect the dealer to warranty their own service work. I don't think it's a matter of Chrysler trying to screw the dealer on warranty work, its the orther way around. It's pretty easy for the dealer service people to tell you this since they are standing in front of you and want someone else to take the heat.
It sounds to me as if you did not receive a competent repair in the first place. Differential problems are tough. Go in to any of the Ford and GM forums and you will find almost indentical posts. In my opinion your dealer does not likely have the talent on their service staff to do a differential set-up. They are very tricky and require patience, experience, and attention to detail.
In an earlier post you stated that "If the dealer says it's broken and he can't fix it, then we enter the settlement phase." I think this means that Chrysler is going to intervene or you can take this to arbitration. Either way I think you might be getting nervous a little prematurely.
Don't get me wrong, I understand your frustration. See if Chrysler will flip for sending a complete axle housing assembly (differential and housing, axles) which would negate the dealer's service technicians having to do the set-ups. They would transfer the backing plates and brake components from your old assembly to the new one. Factory set-ups are usually the best set-up, unless a specialist who is dedicated to these does the job. I would make the point that if the dealer says they CAN'T repair it correctly, then there must be something inherently defective with the housing assembly that is negatively affecting the ability to set the differential assembly up correctly, or Chrysler's sending them bad parts. This will either shift the blame to where I really think it belongs, or be alleviated by settlement. If you act all p*ssed off at them and give them the impression that you'll never buy from them again, then they've lost any motivation or reason to try to keep you as a customer.
Remain calm and do your best to show as little emotion as possible. I know it won't be easy.
I wish I could be there with you on this one!
Best of luck,
Dusty
Any suggestions????
Ray
Ron
In return, I've gotten the runaround. Chrysler tells me I need to go back to the dealer for the 5th time to get them to verify the noise; a noise that the dealer has said he can't hear and the Chrysler rep calls "within norms."
As you suggested, I have a letter ready for Chrysler, asking them to send a complete axle housing assembly (differential and housing, axles) for installation.
But before I request this, would it be worth my time changing the differential oil? My Dakota has the towing package, but who knows if the dealer used synthetic when he replaced the ring and pinion. I wonder if new oil would eliminate the singing, or move it to another speed (it would be less of a problem at 65mph or 85mph). Any thoughts?
Thanks again to you and Sunburn for the suggestions.
-Eric
The towing package does not include synthetic lube in the differential. You have to do that yourself. For towing, Dodge recommends synthetic 75W-140. I've been using Redline 75W-140 in mine. The dealer most likely used conventional 75W-90 when they replaced the R&P. Switching to a 75W-140 might reduce the noise, but it is just masking a potential problem.
I put in Mobil1 75w90, I didn't know about the 75w140, but I don't currently do any towing.
The singing is somewhat less, but that may have to do with the fresh gear oil, maybe nothing to do with it being synthetic. Who knows.
I called a second dealer yesterday and told him I had a singing noise that the Chrysler rep said was "within norms." The second dealer said he couldn't do anything because my Chrysler computer record would show "no repair needed."
This is as I suspected. So it comes down to me putting heat on Chrysler corporate or fixing it on my dollar. Unreal. A truck with 17K on the clock is "within norms" when it sings at 75mph.
Next step will be the 5th letter to Chrysler, asking for an entire new axle housing assembly.
-Eric
I traded mine after many frustrating miles of problems. I made 3K more than I owed and used the difference for a down payment on another vehicle.
Not trying to tell you what to do just offering another option.
The truck has been serviced regularly and the Dodge dealer claims the ball-joints are in OK condition. I'm not sure if the truck has been lubed in a while. I just had to replace a tie-rod end on the passenger side wheel. Driver side tie-rod end is fine.
Can anyone give me a suggesting what is causing the noise? Has Dodge had high level of complaints on suspension problems for Dakota trucks. I'm not sure if the problem is the shock absorber or another part of the suspension. I feel at 40 thousand miles it is too early to have suspension problems (I do no off road driving)
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Brake4me
Some folks have found that the bushings where the anti-sway bar moves tend to get squeeky. (It is simply a rubber-on-steel junction) Many of thoses folks have had luck using some kind of rubber-lube in that area to reduce the friction and eliminate the squeeking.
In any case, A sqeeking sound is NOT a problem. At worst case it is an annoyance. My Dakota brakes squeek loudly all the time... it stops and I dont mind that it squeaks. It is just the nature of the beasty.
Lets keep in mind that the Dakota is a real TRUCK that has a frame. (not one of those SUV's that look "trucklike" but are really a car in disguise. aka Jeep liberty, Suberaru, Honda)
Upon investigation it appears that the Tire Certification Label -- and Dodge specifically, at least -- is not intended to represent the tires that are installed at the factory.
The Tire Certification Label lists the MINIMUM rim size and tire required for the vehicle as equipped from the factory, as well as the cold tire air pressures for the MINIMUM tire requirements.
It is not intended to indicate that the tires installed at the factory match the Tire Certification Label.
By the way, I did find this information in my 2003 Dakota service manual (page 22-6).
Regards,
Dusty
First I want to thank you and the forum for the great suggestion to use a needle injection valve to grease the front end of my 01 Dakota. I had the bushings replaced at about 20000 miles and now at 50000 miles I am hearing that irritating squeaking noise again. A little grease and all is better.
Now to my question, you said that you used the needle injection to grease the upper and lower ball joints. Can you be more specific and tell me exactly what to do. I am not very knowledgeable with cars / trucks but with some help I can get by.
Thanks in advance.
He had it in to his independent auto center where they replace the spark plugs, air filter and cleaned the injectors. He said it appeared to be idling better overall, but said within a day it went back to this intermittent pattern.
Three weeks ago he started the truck up and at the very first stop the engine died. This time it would not restart. In fact, the lights were dim and the battery appeared to be discharged. He put a new battery in that very same day.
I talked to him a little while ago and he said that since he's replaced the battery his Dakota has run like a watch! Is it my imagination, or have I read something similar in here once before? I believe this is the second time I have heard of a engine performance problem that disappeared after a battery failure and subsequent replacement on a Dakota.
Regards,
Dusty
rough idle. 2001 Quad, V8,auto,etc. 35K miles.
mm