Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations

sda · May 2021

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:
When covid started people washed their counters and boxes of food when they got it home...it was assumed covid lived for days on paper etc. So, it made sense that it could be spread by money changing hands. It was probably the right call to make in the early days...but those habits are are hard to stop, so a large percentage of people still believe money can spread covid...and technically, under the right circumstances it could. I like to try to help the brave cashiers and service workers as much as possible....the more exposure the more chance they could get it.

That’s a pile of cr-p. Hopefully not true. Breaking news, that’s what I am referring to. Yes it is Satire.

jmonroe1 · May 2021

oldfarmer50 said:

venture said:

fintail said:
I'd contact the franchise owner who very likely makes all of those rules, and who probably doesn't keep the frontline workers informed about the why behind anything. I think the managers in such places are mostly there to listen to entitled Karens who had to wait in line and can't stand it.

venture said:
I hadn't been to Wendy's in a long time so I went today. They don't take Apple Pay or Google Pay. I guess I seemed too amazed by that fact because the lady at the window said, "Hey, I just work here". I noticed her badge said MANAGER on it so I mentioned she should know why they don't since she is the manager. She got angry.

Is it just my Wendy's or it it all of them?

I was thinking about contacting someone about it just out of curiosity. I finally just decided to not go there any more. It's been a long time since I last stopped there. That should make both of us happy.
Our crew was in an out of town Wendy’s once and one of our guys wanted a bacon cheeseburger without pickles. For some reason the counter person couldn’t understand the concept. They seemed to think he wanted it without bacon or cheese and because they had typed it on the screen that way were unable to comprehend why he was upset. We were all (including about 20 strangers in line) laughing hysterically at the mix up and their inability to deviate from what their computer screen told them.

We can never go back there.

Monkey...push the red button now. Monkey, I said the red button not the green button.

jmonroe

graphicguy · May 2021

benjaminh said:

ronsteve said:
Is that over in the Knobs? The Indiana side is so much quieter, with better sight lines and not overposted speed limits. Though some are probably under posted, I’m all for sane speeds given my normal usage of those roads.

It's where Scenic View Dr. meets Tulip Dr.

I’ve driven that area before. You’re right, quite scenic and if your vehicle is up to it, a fun twisty drive.

fintail · May 2021

sda said:

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:
When covid started people washed their counters and boxes of food when they got it home...it was assumed covid lived for days on paper etc. So, it made sense that it could be spread by money changing hands. It was probably the right call to make in the early days...but those habits are are hard to stop, so a large percentage of people still believe money can spread covid...and technically, under the right circumstances it could. I like to try to help the brave cashiers and service workers as much as possible....the more exposure the more chance they could get it.

That’s a pile of cr-p. Hopefully not true. Breaking news, that’s what I am referring to. Yes it is Satire.

fintail · May 2021

I think I've heard of that. Funny that they'd lose the front plate probably for some "freedom" reason, then some would require restrictive parking to accommodate it. Or it could just be a ploy to call tow trucks and have the offender removed, with a $300 fee of course.

oldfarmer50 said:

fintail said:
I don't think there are any objective ways to defend mandated front-first parking, other than some level of irresponsible control-happy micromanagement. I suspect the odds are much greater to have an incident backing out than backing in or pulling away moving forward. I always back in or pull through so I am facing out, I also tend to park out in the sticks away from the riff-raff.

driver100 said:

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:
“ I just read that another sedan will be axed. 2021 last year for the Mazda 6. Also the Mazda CX3”

What is the world coming to? It won’t be long before we’ll have nothing but boxy SUVs to choose from. It’s the story of my life that if I like a product, the manufacturer will kill it faster than a jack rabbit. TV programs too. If my wife and I start watching a show they yank it off the air. I guess I’m no longer in a desirable demographic.
There should be a law that SUVs should have glass sides on them. I had to park between 2 SUVs in 2 separate spots today...in both cases I was parked with the front end out, in both cases I had to leave my parking spot very slowly because I couldn't see past the SUV on either side of me.
2 solutions....1) if my car had a periscope that came out of the grill, OR 2) if the SUVs were required to have mirrors I could look at to see up and down the aisles.
Or you could pull in face first like you’re supposed to do. I worked at a place where that was the law and you’d lose your parking lot privileges for a month if you backed in or pulled through. I can’t believe that people either back in or pull through a spot so they are facing the aisle at grocery stores and anywhere else for that matter when you know damn well you’re going to buy something and put it in the trunk. I try not to pull into a spot when I see that because I don’t want these nitwits banging into my front bumper trying to finagle a cart to get to their trunk. That is one of my biggest pet peeves.

A backup camera with a wide view is perfect for seeing around cars on either side when you pull in face first and have to back out. It ain’t like you’re driving your fathers Oldsmobile today. Wake up, there are some things today that are better given that there are too many beast mobiles in the world that you have to see around in parking lots.

Rant over.

jmonroe
We smarter more refined people prefer to back in;
“Needless to say, back-in parking takes more time and effort than head-in parking. Yet, it is easier, quicker, and safer when exiting. Thus we may conjecture that people take the trouble to back in demonstrate the ability to delay gratification; they want to invest more time and effort now so they can enjoy the fruits of their labor later. They demonstrate a culture of long-term orientation.”
Every article I see on the topic says it is a little more work in the beginning, because instead of aiming your car into a spot it takes some skill to back in to a space usually between two cars. But, when you drive out you have a clear view of what is immediately within your field of vision and that is when accidents happen - when you back out....way more accidents.
I know you will whine about grocery carts and how inconvenient it is for you but way more sources, including the AAA prefer going in backwards.
https://www.vox.com/2016/8/1/11926596/safer-back-into-parking-spaces

Don’t states with no front plate require that you don’t back into parking spots. I know Florida did that so that they could read the back plate.

jmonroe1 · May 2021

fintail said:
I think I've heard of that. Funny that they'd lose the front plate probably for some "freedom" reason, then some would require restrictive parking to accommodate it. Or it could just be a ploy to call tow trucks and have the offender removed, with a $300 fee of course.

oldfarmer50 said:

fintail said:
I don't think there are any objective ways to defend mandated front-first parking, other than some level of irresponsible control-happy micromanagement. I suspect the odds are much greater to have an incident backing out than backing in or pulling away moving forward. I always back in or pull through so I am facing out, I also tend to park out in the sticks away from the riff-raff.

driver100 said:

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:
“ I just read that another sedan will be axed. 2021 last year for the Mazda 6. Also the Mazda CX3”

What is the world coming to? It won’t be long before we’ll have nothing but boxy SUVs to choose from. It’s the story of my life that if I like a product, the manufacturer will kill it faster than a jack rabbit. TV programs too. If my wife and I start watching a show they yank it off the air. I guess I’m no longer in a desirable demographic.
There should be a law that SUVs should have glass sides on them. I had to park between 2 SUVs in 2 separate spots today...in both cases I was parked with the front end out, in both cases I had to leave my parking spot very slowly because I couldn't see past the SUV on either side of me.
2 solutions....1) if my car had a periscope that came out of the grill, OR 2) if the SUVs were required to have mirrors I could look at to see up and down the aisles.
Or you could pull in face first like you’re supposed to do. I worked at a place where that was the law and you’d lose your parking lot privileges for a month if you backed in or pulled through. I can’t believe that people either back in or pull through a spot so they are facing the aisle at grocery stores and anywhere else for that matter when you know damn well you’re going to buy something and put it in the trunk. I try not to pull into a spot when I see that because I don’t want these nitwits banging into my front bumper trying to finagle a cart to get to their trunk. That is one of my biggest pet peeves.

A backup camera with a wide view is perfect for seeing around cars on either side when you pull in face first and have to back out. It ain’t like you’re driving your fathers Oldsmobile today. Wake up, there are some things today that are better given that there are too many beast mobiles in the world that you have to see around in parking lots.

Rant over.

jmonroe
We smarter more refined people prefer to back in;
“Needless to say, back-in parking takes more time and effort than head-in parking. Yet, it is easier, quicker, and safer when exiting. Thus we may conjecture that people take the trouble to back in demonstrate the ability to delay gratification; they want to invest more time and effort now so they can enjoy the fruits of their labor later. They demonstrate a culture of long-term orientation.”
Every article I see on the topic says it is a little more work in the beginning, because instead of aiming your car into a spot it takes some skill to back in to a space usually between two cars. But, when you drive out you have a clear view of what is immediately within your field of vision and that is when accidents happen - when you back out....way more accidents.
I know you will whine about grocery carts and how inconvenient it is for you but way more sources, including the AAA prefer going in backwards.
https://www.vox.com/2016/8/1/11926596/safer-back-into-parking-spaces

Don’t states with no front plate require that you don’t back into parking spots. I know Florida did that so that they could read the back plate.

It sounds like you are a tad suspicious that apartment owners have a side business for towing cars or have a cousin in that biz or a friend or a ... However, just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they aren’t out to get you.

jmonroe

andres3 · May 2021

henryn said:
In the modern, online world, there are ways of dealing with an overload of business. For an example, I present Amazon and how they handled the explosion of business they received last year immediately following the lockdown. Instead of offering 2 day delivery, many (most?) items started showing delivery times of 3 weeks to 3 months. This way, people knew what to expect before engaging, and could make their own decision to proceed or not.

Modernizing the USPS, bringing their computer systems into the 21st century, would be a massive undertaking and something that big bureaucracies do not do well. Back in the 90’s I was the lead on a couple of big computer upgrades (hardware, software, the whole kit and caboodle). Millions of dollars, dozens of software engineers, deadlines, big time pressure.

I was feeling pretty cocky, and when I heard the IRS wanted to completely redo / modernize their computer systems, I applied for a position with them. Specifically, to be the lead, or “a lead”, on this project. I interviewed with several different managers and teams and came away with the impression that their efforts were doomed to failure. Which proved to be correct.

I once suggested Bezos owed everybody a yearly refund of Prime dues since the 2-day shipping promises were not met.
I was met with responses ranging from:
1) Amazon doesn't owe you crap. They still shipped it for free didn't they?
to
2) Their fine print is probably more than enough to make an air tight defense against them under-delivering.

I do find it pretty tacky and cheap the more and more items I see without "Prime" shipping being available.

tjc78 · May 2021

Re: GFCIs. Yes they go bad. I had several go in my old house and the PITA is everything hooked downstream goes out too. Newer ones have a red light when they die.

Re: Cash. We don’t use it often at all. We usually have $20-$30 at most. Nearly everywhere takes some form of cashless payment.

Re: Mazda 6. Not surprised. Won’t be many sedans left in a few years.

Typing this from the beach. A little overcast and water is ice cubes ... but still wonderful.

andres3 · May 2021

snakeweasel said:

graphicguy said:
For my U.S. friends only....USPS is a government service, not a profit center. Just like Social Security, Medicare, National Parks Services, etc.

As such, our tax dollars should be used to pay for that service. I know the current Post Master, who is inept, and that's being kind, tries to portray it as a service he had to cut back on in order to make it profitable. That's not the reason, at all. His previous position was as the leader of a "Logistics" company, which actually competed with the USPS, who can undercut most Logistics and delivery companies given their support of our tax dollars.

The post office is a quasi government service and it's employees are not truly Federal employees and it's supposed to be self funded.

Just like the big banks and all the mortgage providers as well since most of them sell the loans to Frannie and Freddie.

Also, apparently Gov't Motors and Chrysler too.

andres3 · May 2021

jmonroe1 said:

benjaminh said:
Biden driving the new Ford F-150 Lightning EV. He said he was going to take it to 80.
Our tax dollars at work.

jmonroe

Well, at least Ford didn't use tax payer money to fill the gas tank...oh wait... to fill the batteries with electrical power from a private utility company.

henryn · May 2021

andres3 said:

henryn said:
In the modern, online world, there are ways of dealing with an overload of business. For an example, I present Amazon and how they handled the explosion of business they received last year immediately following the lockdown. Instead of offering 2 day delivery, many (most?) items started showing delivery times of 3 weeks to 3 months. This way, people knew what to expect before engaging, and could make their own decision to proceed or not.

Modernizing the USPS, bringing their computer systems into the 21st century, would be a massive undertaking and something that big bureaucracies do not do well. Back in the 90’s I was the lead on a couple of big computer upgrades (hardware, software, the whole kit and caboodle). Millions of dollars, dozens of software engineers, deadlines, big time pressure.

I was feeling pretty cocky, and when I heard the IRS wanted to completely redo / modernize their computer systems, I applied for a position with them. Specifically, to be the lead, or “a lead”, on this project. I interviewed with several different managers and teams and came away with the impression that their efforts were doomed to failure. Which proved to be correct.
I once suggested Bezos owed everybody a yearly refund of Prime dues since the 2-day shipping promises were not met.
I was met with responses ranging from:
1) Amazon doesn't owe you crap. They still shipped it for free didn't they?
to
2) Their fine print is probably more than enough to make an air tight defense against them under-delivering.

I do find it pretty tacky and cheap the more and more items I see without "Prime" shipping being available.

I did not feel that Amazon did anything wrong. If anything, I think they handled the situation as well as was humanly possible. No one foresaw the Pandemic, followed by the lockdown, followed by the huge uptick in online purchasing. And I do mean HUGE, as in totally unforeseen.

The items you see without "Prime shipping" are items not being sold by Amazon. They are trying to replace Ebay as a place for other, smaller companies to sell their products. I have no particular opinion on that, we can all feel free to ignore those products if we choose. The information is prominently displayed, no one is hiding anything from you.

andres3 · May 2021

dino001 said:

imidazol97 said:
Another Tesla crash. When will it end?
https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/morning-crash-involving-tesla-closes-express-lanes-of-i-95-in-miami-dade/2454338/
You mean, as opposed to other cars that don't ever crash?

Even distracted driver's often "hit the brakes" just before impact. Not always, but it happens. These "computer" driven crashes seem to have a common theme of not reacting at all.

andres3 · May 2021

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

stickguy said:
Give them cash. It’s just as good as money.
When we came back from Florida 14 months ago I put my usual $200 cash in my wallet. A tiny bit has flowed out and a tiny bit in, but I probably still have 80% of the original $200. We are in lockdowns and stores don't want cash. For me, it is almost the cashless society.
At times I like to use cash simply because I don't want to be tracked. And by that I mean I don't want my wife you went to the Silo again? Or something like that.
Does she get to check your telephone tracking of where you have been? My wife has shown me hers, I had no idea....the cities she has been to, stores, trips everything..........
Nope, we don't track each other like that. Also I have developed that habit of turning off my phone if I am going to be out for most of the day. I started to do that to conserve battery power as my old phone was almost 5 years old and had a noticeable reduction in the battery life.

That's funny; the things you get used to with old phones. I have an old habit from having an old Iphone that won't die easily. I pretty much ignored new software and new apps because I was out of "storage" memory for years. My new phone has 10X the GB of my old phone, so I think that old habit can die off.

andres3 · May 2021

benjaminh said:
I was driving on a rural road in Indiana today and there was almost no traffic. This was the view out of my window at a stop sign. It was a fun road for driving even at the speed limit of 30. Taking random drives like this is in part how I plan to get up to 15k+ miles a year.

Backing into parking spaces is far safer than going in front first, inherently, and automatically. There's no way around his fact, just as passing on the left is safer than passing on the right in drive right, pass left Countries.
One main reason is you are going forward with a clear view into the "unknown" when you move forward out of a parking space. When you are backing out of a parking space, your view is restricted, you are going into the "unknown" and you DO NOT have the right of way. When you back into a parking space, you are backing into the "KNOWN" (that being an empty space) with the right of way to that space.
GIGANTIC HUGE DIFFERENCE. Admittedly it took me years and a lot of thought to finally realize this. Hope I explained it well.

bwia · May 2021

Pardon me if I'm wrong but didn't Garmin offer Augmented Reality technology in its portable GPS units some 10+ years ago. Or is today's augmented reality tech that different because it can project a head-up display on the wind screen? I don't see much of a difference except today it is a pricey option peddled, not as a navigation gimmick, but an important safety tech.

When you approach a fork in the road on a foggy, rainy day, an advanced navigation system can clearly illustrate which road to take. Credit...Paul Stenquis

jmonroe1 · May 2021

andres3 said:

benjaminh said:
I was driving on a rural road in Indiana today and there was almost no traffic. This was the view out of my window at a stop sign. It was a fun road for driving even at the speed limit of 30. Taking random drives like this is in part how I plan to get up to 15k+ miles a year.
Backing into parking spaces is far safer than going in front first, inherently, and automatically. There's no way around his fact, just as passing on the left is safer than passing on the right in drive right, pass left Countries.
One main reason is you are going forward with a clear view into the "unknown" when you move forward out of a parking space. When you are backing out of a parking space, your view is restricted, you are going into the "unknown" and you DO NOT have the right of way. When you back into a parking space, you are backing into the "KNOWN" (that being an empty space) with the right of way to that space.
GIGANTIC HUGE DIFFERENCE. Admittedly it took me years and a lot of thought to finally realize this. Hope I explained it well.

You explained it but not well enough for my satisfaction. When you back in, besides the trunk thingy, you have to pull out, sometimes being block by monster vehicles on both sides. I’ll give you credit for inching out so that you can see well enough before pulling out. That inching out is the hidden area that I have seen a couple times result in a hit. Not often but why take the chance when you can rely on the wide angle view of a backup camera before you even inch backwards? And better yet Mrs. j’s 2018 Subie starts beeping at me the instant I put it in reverse (without even moving an inch) when it detects a car within at least 15 feet left or right of the rear bumper. It seems so much like common sense I can’t believe I’m trying to justify pulling in head first. vs. backing in.

Years ago before the invention of the wide angle rear view back up camera, it was a crap shoot as to the safest way to park in a parking lot but I’ll have to go with technology in this situation every time. Which is a switch for me because I’m far from being a nanny proponent.

jmonroe

andres3 · May 2021

jmonroe1 said:

andres3 said:

benjaminh said:
I was driving on a rural road in Indiana today and there was almost no traffic. This was the view out of my window at a stop sign. It was a fun road for driving even at the speed limit of 30. Taking random drives like this is in part how I plan to get up to 15k+ miles a year.
Backing into parking spaces is far safer than going in front first, inherently, and automatically. There's no way around his fact, just as passing on the left is safer than passing on the right in drive right, pass left Countries.
One main reason is you are going forward with a clear view into the "unknown" when you move forward out of a parking space. When you are backing out of a parking space, your view is restricted, you are going into the "unknown" and you DO NOT have the right of way. When you back into a parking space, you are backing into the "KNOWN" (that being an empty space) with the right of way to that space.
GIGANTIC HUGE DIFFERENCE. Admittedly it took me years and a lot of thought to finally realize this. Hope I explained it well.
You explained it but not well enough for my satisfaction. When you back in, besides the trunk thingy, you have to pull out, sometimes being block by monster vehicles on both sides. I’ll give you credit for inching out so that you can see well enough before pulling out. That inching out is the hidden area that I have seen a couple times result in a hit. Not often but why take the chance when you can rely on the wide angle view of a backup camera before you even inch backwards? And better yet Mrs. j’s 2018 Subie starts beeping at me the instant I put it in reverse (without even moving an inch) when it detects a car within at least 15 feet left or right of the rear bumper. It seems so much like common sense I can’t believe I’m trying to justify pulling in head first. vs. backing in.

Years ago before the invention of the wide angle rear view back up camera, it was a crap shoot as to the safest way to park in a parking lot but I’ll have to go with technology in this situation every time. Which is a switch for me because I’m far from being a nanny proponent.

jmonroe

The problem is that apparently you can be targeted, aimed at, and rammed into deliberately in a parking lot if you "back out" no matter how slowly, and you will be found 100% at fault as you are "backing" and do not have the right of way. Those two facts are apparently good for 1,000% full-proof tightness with insurance.

explorerx4 · May 2021

@kyfdx,
Here are a bunch of Boston area tours:
https://www.bostoncentral.com/boston-tour#:~:text=Boston Harbor Cruise Tours From whale watching cruises,,Island, or a 3 hour whale watch tour.

abacomike · May 2021

Here in our condo community (4000+ apartments), we are not allowed to park backing into our assigned parking spaces - $25 fines issued by our security department. The rationale is based upon visibility of license plates and display of right-rear window parking bar codes. The vehicle to my right is a large SUV - thus backing out of my space presents a problem where I cannot see vehicles or pedestrians approaching me from my right rear. Luckily my G90 has rear and front approaching pedestrian and vehicle sensors and warnings and will actually apply brakes automatically if a collision with a person or vehicle is imminent. My back-up cameras are limited in that they don’t have wide-angle capabilities as did my Mercedes vehicles. So I have to be more cautious when backing out of parking spaces.

venture · May 2021

oldfarmer50 said:

fintail said:
I don't think there are any objective ways to defend mandated front-first parking, other than some level of irresponsible control-happy micromanagement. I suspect the odds are much greater to have an incident backing out than backing in or pulling away moving forward. I always back in or pull through so I am facing out, I also tend to park out in the sticks away from the riff-raff.

driver100 said:

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:
“ I just read that another sedan will be axed. 2021 last year for the Mazda 6. Also the Mazda CX3”

What is the world coming to? It won’t be long before we’ll have nothing but boxy SUVs to choose from. It’s the story of my life that if I like a product, the manufacturer will kill it faster than a jack rabbit. TV programs too. If my wife and I start watching a show they yank it off the air. I guess I’m no longer in a desirable demographic.
There should be a law that SUVs should have glass sides on them. I had to park between 2 SUVs in 2 separate spots today...in both cases I was parked with the front end out, in both cases I had to leave my parking spot very slowly because I couldn't see past the SUV on either side of me.
2 solutions....1) if my car had a periscope that came out of the grill, OR 2) if the SUVs were required to have mirrors I could look at to see up and down the aisles.
Or you could pull in face first like you’re supposed to do. I worked at a place where that was the law and you’d lose your parking lot privileges for a month if you backed in or pulled through. I can’t believe that people either back in or pull through a spot so they are facing the aisle at grocery stores and anywhere else for that matter when you know damn well you’re going to buy something and put it in the trunk. I try not to pull into a spot when I see that because I don’t want these nitwits banging into my front bumper trying to finagle a cart to get to their trunk. That is one of my biggest pet peeves.

A backup camera with a wide view is perfect for seeing around cars on either side when you pull in face first and have to back out. It ain’t like you’re driving your fathers Oldsmobile today. Wake up, there are some things today that are better given that there are too many beast mobiles in the world that you have to see around in parking lots.

Rant over.

jmonroe
We smarter more refined people prefer to back in;
“Needless to say, back-in parking takes more time and effort than head-in parking. Yet, it is easier, quicker, and safer when exiting. Thus we may conjecture that people take the trouble to back in demonstrate the ability to delay gratification; they want to invest more time and effort now so they can enjoy the fruits of their labor later. They demonstrate a culture of long-term orientation.”
Every article I see on the topic says it is a little more work in the beginning, because instead of aiming your car into a spot it takes some skill to back in to a space usually between two cars. But, when you drive out you have a clear view of what is immediately within your field of vision and that is when accidents happen - when you back out....way more accidents.
I know you will whine about grocery carts and how inconvenient it is for you but way more sources, including the AAA prefer going in backwards.
https://www.vox.com/2016/8/1/11926596/safer-back-into-parking-spaces

Don’t states with no front plate require that you don’t back into parking spots. I know Florida did that so that they could read the back plate.

No front plates in Pennsylvania. I never heard of that.

stickguy · May 2021

I back in on occasion if it makes sense. Or will pull through when possible. My wife, if I told her she had to back in, would probably leave the car out in the aisle. She really doesn't like doing it and seems to have a phobia.

I think it is easier to back in since you can see clearly with side mirrors and camera. New cars, especially "trucky" ones like the RDX, have such big, blocky noses that it is just a wild guess what's going on.

tjc78 · May 2021

IMO it’s pay me now or pay me later. Either way one of the operations is backing up 90% of the time.

I almost never back in to a spot unless it looks like it will be a nightmare to get out.

jmonroe1 · May 2021

andres3 said:

jmonroe1 said:

andres3 said:

benjaminh said:
I was driving on a rural road in Indiana today and there was almost no traffic. This was the view out of my window at a stop sign. It was a fun road for driving even at the speed limit of 30. Taking random drives like this is in part how I plan to get up to 15k+ miles a year.
Backing into parking spaces is far safer than going in front first, inherently, and automatically. There's no way around his fact, just as passing on the left is safer than passing on the right in drive right, pass left Countries.
One main reason is you are going forward with a clear view into the "unknown" when you move forward out of a parking space. When you are backing out of a parking space, your view is restricted, you are going into the "unknown" and you DO NOT have the right of way. When you back into a parking space, you are backing into the "KNOWN" (that being an empty space) with the right of way to that space.
GIGANTIC HUGE DIFFERENCE. Admittedly it took me years and a lot of thought to finally realize this. Hope I explained it well.
You explained it but not well enough for my satisfaction. When you back in, besides the trunk thingy, you have to pull out, sometimes being block by monster vehicles on both sides. I’ll give you credit for inching out so that you can see well enough before pulling out. That inching out is the hidden area that I have seen a couple times result in a hit. Not often but why take the chance when you can rely on the wide angle view of a backup camera before you even inch backwards? And better yet Mrs. j’s 2018 Subie starts beeping at me the instant I put it in reverse (without even moving an inch) when it detects a car within at least 15 feet left or right of the rear bumper. It seems so much like common sense I can’t believe I’m trying to justify pulling in head first. vs. backing in.

Years ago before the invention of the wide angle rear view back up camera, it was a crap shoot as to the safest way to park in a parking lot but I’ll have to go with technology in this situation every time. Which is a switch for me because I’m far from being a nanny proponent.

jmonroe
The problem is that apparently you can be targeted, aimed at, and rammed into deliberately in a parking lot if you "back out" no matter how slowly, and you will be found 100% at fault as you are "backing" and do not have the right of way. Those two facts are apparently good for 1,000% full-proof tightness with insurance.

I agree that anytime you’re backing up and you get hit you are always wrong, 100% of the time. BTW, anytime you say something like 110% or 1000%, etc. etc. you are always wrong 100% of the time because there is no such thing as more than 100% when talking percentages like you’re using the term. Just a little tid bit I’ll throw out.

Anytime you’re pulling into traffic even parking lot aisles you do not have possession of that road until you are safely fully on it regardless of going forward or backwards. I never use the argument of having the right of way. I’ll always yield to an idiot rather than have an accident and try to prove that I had the right of way. So far that philosophy is working.

jmonroe

driver100 · May 2021

abacomike said:
Here in our condo community (4000+ apartments), we are not allowed to park backing into our assigned parking spaces - $25 fines issued by our security department. The rationale is based upon visibility of license plates and display of right-rear window parking bar codes. The vehicle to my right is a large SUV - thus backing out of my space presents a problem where I cannot see vehicles or pedestrians approaching me from my right rear. Luckily my G90 has rear and front approaching pedestrian and vehicle sensors and warnings and will actually apply brakes automatically if a collision with a person or vehicle is imminent. My back-up cameras are limited in that they don’t have wide-angle capabilities as did my Mercedes vehicles. So I have to be more cautious when backing out of parking spaces.

You would be a good candidate for the Driver101 model front and rear periscope camera.

See, it is kind of like an elephants trunk and can twist around in either direction!

cdnpinhead · May 2021

Anyone who has driven a truck or paid attention when running a shopping cart may have noticed that it's best to have the steering wheels coming in last, not first. If this is news to you, then you're part of the problem. It's necessary to swing way out to fit into a parking space when you have to compensate for the rear wheel offset. Backing in, not so much.

I realize that I'm speaking Swahili (no offense to those people) here, but here it is.

driver100 · May 2021

tjc78 said:
IMO it’s pay me now or pay me later. Either way one of the operations is backing up 90% of the time.

I almost never back in to a spot unless it looks like it will be a nightmare to get out.

Every site I found said backing in is preferred, you pull up, you can see clearly what is happening in and around the space you want to back into. When it is time to go ease forward slowly if you have to....at least you should be able to see everything that is in front of you, if they are coming from the side they should see you slowly coming out...I do it in about 4 inch stages if I really can't see. Backing into an aisle even with a camera is riskier!

andres3 · May 2021

jmonroe1 said:

andres3 said:

jmonroe1 said:

andres3 said:

benjaminh said:
I was driving on a rural road in Indiana today and there was almost no traffic. This was the view out of my window at a stop sign. It was a fun road for driving even at the speed limit of 30. Taking random drives like this is in part how I plan to get up to 15k+ miles a year.
Backing into parking spaces is far safer than going in front first, inherently, and automatically. There's no way around his fact, just as passing on the left is safer than passing on the right in drive right, pass left Countries.
One main reason is you are going forward with a clear view into the "unknown" when you move forward out of a parking space. When you are backing out of a parking space, your view is restricted, you are going into the "unknown" and you DO NOT have the right of way. When you back into a parking space, you are backing into the "KNOWN" (that being an empty space) with the right of way to that space.
GIGANTIC HUGE DIFFERENCE. Admittedly it took me years and a lot of thought to finally realize this. Hope I explained it well.
You explained it but not well enough for my satisfaction. When you back in, besides the trunk thingy, you have to pull out, sometimes being block by monster vehicles on both sides. I’ll give you credit for inching out so that you can see well enough before pulling out. That inching out is the hidden area that I have seen a couple times result in a hit. Not often but why take the chance when you can rely on the wide angle view of a backup camera before you even inch backwards? And better yet Mrs. j’s 2018 Subie starts beeping at me the instant I put it in reverse (without even moving an inch) when it detects a car within at least 15 feet left or right of the rear bumper. It seems so much like common sense I can’t believe I’m trying to justify pulling in head first. vs. backing in.

Years ago before the invention of the wide angle rear view back up camera, it was a crap shoot as to the safest way to park in a parking lot but I’ll have to go with technology in this situation every time. Which is a switch for me because I’m far from being a nanny proponent.

jmonroe
The problem is that apparently you can be targeted, aimed at, and rammed into deliberately in a parking lot if you "back out" no matter how slowly, and you will be found 100% at fault as you are "backing" and do not have the right of way. Those two facts are apparently good for 1,000% full-proof tightness with insurance.
I agree that anytime you’re backing up and you get hit you are always wrong, 100% of the time. BTW, anytime you say something like 110% or 1000%, etc. etc. you are always wrong 100% of the time because there is no such thing as more than 100% when talking percentages like you’re using the term. Just a little tid bit I’ll throw out.

Anytime you’re pulling into traffic even parking lot aisles you do not have possession of that road until you are safely fully on it regardless of going forward or backwards. I never use the argument of having the right of way. I’ll always yield to an idiot rather than have an accident and try to prove that I had the right of way. So far that philosophy is working.

jmonroe

The problem is it doesn't matter if you stop; you were in the "act" of backing up according to Geico, and as such it gives the other person in the parking lot free reign to come in from anywhere and ram you, and it'll still be your fault if they are going forward. Technically, your not "backing" if your stopped, but without a dash cam video, you are likely out of luck.

jmonroe1 · May 2021

andres3 said:

jmonroe1 said:

andres3 said:

jmonroe1 said:

andres3 said:

benjaminh said:
I was driving on a rural road in Indiana today and there was almost no traffic. This was the view out of my window at a stop sign. It was a fun road for driving even at the speed limit of 30. Taking random drives like this is in part how I plan to get up to 15k+ miles a year.
Backing into parking spaces is far safer than going in front first, inherently, and automatically. There's no way around his fact, just as passing on the left is safer than passing on the right in drive right, pass left Countries.
One main reason is you are going forward with a clear view into the "unknown" when you move forward out of a parking space. When you are backing out of a parking space, your view is restricted, you are going into the "unknown" and you DO NOT have the right of way. When you back into a parking space, you are backing into the "KNOWN" (that being an empty space) with the right of way to that space.
GIGANTIC HUGE DIFFERENCE. Admittedly it took me years and a lot of thought to finally realize this. Hope I explained it well.
You explained it but not well enough for my satisfaction. When you back in, besides the trunk thingy, you have to pull out, sometimes being block by monster vehicles on both sides. I’ll give you credit for inching out so that you can see well enough before pulling out. That inching out is the hidden area that I have seen a couple times result in a hit. Not often but why take the chance when you can rely on the wide angle view of a backup camera before you even inch backwards? And better yet Mrs. j’s 2018 Subie starts beeping at me the instant I put it in reverse (without even moving an inch) when it detects a car within at least 15 feet left or right of the rear bumper. It seems so much like common sense I can’t believe I’m trying to justify pulling in head first. vs. backing in.

Years ago before the invention of the wide angle rear view back up camera, it was a crap shoot as to the safest way to park in a parking lot but I’ll have to go with technology in this situation every time. Which is a switch for me because I’m far from being a nanny proponent.

jmonroe
The problem is that apparently you can be targeted, aimed at, and rammed into deliberately in a parking lot if you "back out" no matter how slowly, and you will be found 100% at fault as you are "backing" and do not have the right of way. Those two facts are apparently good for 1,000% full-proof tightness with insurance.
I agree that anytime you’re backing up and you get hit you are always wrong, 100% of the time. BTW, anytime you say something like 110% or 1000%, etc. etc. you are always wrong 100% of the time because there is no such thing as more than 100% when talking percentages like you’re using the term. Just a little tid bit I’ll throw out.

Anytime you’re pulling into traffic even parking lot aisles you do not have possession of that road until you are safely fully on it regardless of going forward or backwards. I never use the argument of having the right of way. I’ll always yield to an idiot rather than have an accident and try to prove that I had the right of way. So far that philosophy is working.

jmonroe
The problem is it doesn't matter if you stop; you were in the "act" of backing up according to Geico, and as such it gives the other person in the parking lot free reign to come in from anywhere and ram you, and it'll still be your fault if they are going forward. Technically, your not "backing" if your stopped, but without a dash cam video, you are likely out of luck.

You’re going to have to read the first sentence of my last post to you where I agreed that you are always wrong 100% of the time when you’re backing up. However, I’m not so paranoid as to think that people are laying in wait of my attempt to back up so they can ram me but maybe you have more insurance claim lurkers in Southern CA. than we have in Southwestern PA.

jmonroe

qbrozen · May 2021

@driver100 said:
Every site I found said backing in is preferred, you pull up, you can see clearly what is happening in and around the space you want to back into. When it is time to go ease forward slowly if you have to....at least you should be able to see everything that is in front of you, if they are coming from the side they should see you slowly coming out...I do it in about 4 inch stages if I really can't see. Backing into an aisle even with a camera is riskier!

I don’t need a site to tell me it is always better to back in whenever you can (or pull through if the opposite facing spot is open), for exactly the reasons you state.

explorerx4 · May 2021

If I have something I need to put in the back, I park with the back of the car toward the aisle, otherwise I try to pull through to be able to drive out forward.
There are also parking spots that are angled so you pretty much have to pull in nose first.

snakeweasel · May 2021

@andres3 said:
Backing into parking spaces is far safer than going in front first, inherently, and automatically. There's no way around his fact, just as passing on the left is safer than passing on the right in drive right, pass left Countries.
One main reason is you are going forward with a clear view into the "unknown" when you move forward out of a parking space. When you are backing out of a parking space, your view is restricted, you are going into the "unknown" and you DO NOT have the right of way. When you back into a parking space, you are backing into the "KNOWN" (that being an empty space) with the right of way to that space.
GIGANTIC HUGE DIFFERENCE. Admittedly it took me years and a lot of thought to finally realize this. Hope I explained it well.

Yeah tell that to the person who almost hit me trying to back into a parking space I was occupying.

snakeweasel · May 2021

@andres3 said:
The problem is that apparently you can be targeted, aimed at, and rammed into deliberately in a parking lot if you "back out" no matter how slowly, and you will be found 100% at fault as you are "backing" and do not have the right of way. Those two facts are apparently good for 1,000% full-proof tightness with insurance.

Can't you also be targeted and rammed into pulling out forward? And wouldn't still be your fault?

snakeweasel · May 2021

@abacomike said:
Here in our condo community (4000+ apartments), we are not allowed to park backing into our assigned parking spaces - $25 fines issued by our security department. The rationale is based upon visibility of license plates and display of right-rear window parking bar codes. The vehicle to my right is a large SUV - thus backing out of my space presents a problem where I cannot see vehicles or pedestrians approaching me from my right rear. Luckily my G90 has rear and front approaching pedestrian and vehicle sensors and warnings and will actually apply brakes automatically if a collision with a person or vehicle is imminent. My back-up cameras are limited in that they don’t have wide-angle capabilities as did my Mercedes vehicles. So I have to be more cautious when backing out of parking spaces.

Simple solution back into someone else's assigned spot and let them get the $25 fine.

snakeweasel · May 2021

@tjc78 said:
IMO it’s pay me now or pay me later. Either way one of the operations is backing up 90% of the time.

I almost never back in to a spot unless it looks like it will be a nightmare to get out.

Well spoken, well said.

oldfarmer50 · May 2021

jmonroe1 said:

fintail said:
I think I've heard of that. Funny that they'd lose the front plate probably for some "freedom" reason, then some would require restrictive parking to accommodate it. Or it could just be a ploy to call tow trucks and have the offender removed, with a $300 fee of course.

oldfarmer50 said:

fintail said:
I don't think there are any objective ways to defend mandated front-first parking, other than some level of irresponsible control-happy micromanagement. I suspect the odds are much greater to have an incident backing out than backing in or pulling away moving forward. I always back in or pull through so I am facing out, I also tend to park out in the sticks away from the riff-raff.

driver100 said:

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:
“ I just read that another sedan will be axed. 2021 last year for the Mazda 6. Also the Mazda CX3”

What is the world coming to? It won’t be long before we’ll have nothing but boxy SUVs to choose from. It’s the story of my life that if I like a product, the manufacturer will kill it faster than a jack rabbit. TV programs too. If my wife and I start watching a show they yank it off the air. I guess I’m no longer in a desirable demographic.
There should be a law that SUVs should have glass sides on them. I had to park between 2 SUVs in 2 separate spots today...in both cases I was parked with the front end out, in both cases I had to leave my parking spot very slowly because I couldn't see past the SUV on either side of me.
2 solutions....1) if my car had a periscope that came out of the grill, OR 2) if the SUVs were required to have mirrors I could look at to see up and down the aisles.
Or you could pull in face first like you’re supposed to do. I worked at a place where that was the law and you’d lose your parking lot privileges for a month if you backed in or pulled through. I can’t believe that people either back in or pull through a spot so they are facing the aisle at grocery stores and anywhere else for that matter when you know damn well you’re going to buy something and put it in the trunk. I try not to pull into a spot when I see that because I don’t want these nitwits banging into my front bumper trying to finagle a cart to get to their trunk. That is one of my biggest pet peeves.

A backup camera with a wide view is perfect for seeing around cars on either side when you pull in face first and have to back out. It ain’t like you’re driving your fathers Oldsmobile today. Wake up, there are some things today that are better given that there are too many beast mobiles in the world that you have to see around in parking lots.

Rant over.

jmonroe
We smarter more refined people prefer to back in;
“Needless to say, back-in parking takes more time and effort than head-in parking. Yet, it is easier, quicker, and safer when exiting. Thus we may conjecture that people take the trouble to back in demonstrate the ability to delay gratification; they want to invest more time and effort now so they can enjoy the fruits of their labor later. They demonstrate a culture of long-term orientation.”
Every article I see on the topic says it is a little more work in the beginning, because instead of aiming your car into a spot it takes some skill to back in to a space usually between two cars. But, when you drive out you have a clear view of what is immediately within your field of vision and that is when accidents happen - when you back out....way more accidents.
I know you will whine about grocery carts and how inconvenient it is for you but way more sources, including the AAA prefer going in backwards.
https://www.vox.com/2016/8/1/11926596/safer-back-into-parking-spaces

Don’t states with no front plate require that you don’t back into parking spots. I know Florida did that so that they could read the back plate.

It sounds like you are a tad suspicious that apartment owners have a side business for towing cars or have a cousin in that biz or a friend or a ... However, just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they aren’t out to get you.

jmonroe

Sadly, that can be true. There was a local apartment complex that had a deal with a towing company to hook cars that just touched the yellow lines or went 1 inch onto the grass. They were so egregious that the local media took notice.

roadburner · May 2021

I decided to wash and detail the M235i today; at 7 years and 61k miles I think it still looks pretty good.

snakeweasel · May 2021

@driver100 said:
Every site I found said backing in is preferred, you pull up, you can see clearly what is happening in and around the space you want to back into. When it is time to go ease forward slowly if you have to....at least you should be able to see everything that is in front of you, if they are coming from the side they should see you slowly coming out...I do it in about 4 inch stages if I really can't see. Backing into an aisle even with a camera is riskier!

I have found sites that say otherwise, anyway I will take the few sites I found that say it's a mute point.

oldfarmer50 · May 2021

fintail said:
I think I've heard of that. Funny that they'd lose the front plate probably for some "freedom" reason, then some would require restrictive parking to accommodate it. Or it could just be a ploy to call tow trucks and have the offender removed, with a $300 fee of course.

oldfarmer50 said:

fintail said:
I don't think there are any objective ways to defend mandated front-first parking, other than some level of irresponsible control-happy micromanagement. I suspect the odds are much greater to have an incident backing out than backing in or pulling away moving forward. I always back in or pull through so I am facing out, I also tend to park out in the sticks away from the riff-raff.

driver100 said:

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:
“ I just read that another sedan will be axed. 2021 last year for the Mazda 6. Also the Mazda CX3”

What is the world coming to? It won’t be long before we’ll have nothing but boxy SUVs to choose from. It’s the story of my life that if I like a product, the manufacturer will kill it faster than a jack rabbit. TV programs too. If my wife and I start watching a show they yank it off the air. I guess I’m no longer in a desirable demographic.
There should be a law that SUVs should have glass sides on them. I had to park between 2 SUVs in 2 separate spots today...in both cases I was parked with the front end out, in both cases I had to leave my parking spot very slowly because I couldn't see past the SUV on either side of me.
2 solutions....1) if my car had a periscope that came out of the grill, OR 2) if the SUVs were required to have mirrors I could look at to see up and down the aisles.
Or you could pull in face first like you’re supposed to do. I worked at a place where that was the law and you’d lose your parking lot privileges for a month if you backed in or pulled through. I can’t believe that people either back in or pull through a spot so they are facing the aisle at grocery stores and anywhere else for that matter when you know damn well you’re going to buy something and put it in the trunk. I try not to pull into a spot when I see that because I don’t want these nitwits banging into my front bumper trying to finagle a cart to get to their trunk. That is one of my biggest pet peeves.

A backup camera with a wide view is perfect for seeing around cars on either side when you pull in face first and have to back out. It ain’t like you’re driving your fathers Oldsmobile today. Wake up, there are some things today that are better given that there are too many beast mobiles in the world that you have to see around in parking lots.

Rant over.

jmonroe
We smarter more refined people prefer to back in;
“Needless to say, back-in parking takes more time and effort than head-in parking. Yet, it is easier, quicker, and safer when exiting. Thus we may conjecture that people take the trouble to back in demonstrate the ability to delay gratification; they want to invest more time and effort now so they can enjoy the fruits of their labor later. They demonstrate a culture of long-term orientation.”
Every article I see on the topic says it is a little more work in the beginning, because instead of aiming your car into a spot it takes some skill to back in to a space usually between two cars. But, when you drive out you have a clear view of what is immediately within your field of vision and that is when accidents happen - when you back out....way more accidents.
I know you will whine about grocery carts and how inconvenient it is for you but way more sources, including the AAA prefer going in backwards.
https://www.vox.com/2016/8/1/11926596/safer-back-into-parking-spaces

Don’t states with no front plate require that you don’t back into parking spots. I know Florida did that so that they could read the back plate.

You got something against freedom?
You got me thinking so I looked it up. These states don’t require a front plate:
Alabama
Arizona
Arkansas
Delaware
Florida
Georgia
Indiana
Kansas
Kentucky
Louisiana
Michigan
Mississippi
New Mexico
North Carolina
Ohio
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania
South Carolina
Tennessee
West Virginia

Not all of them are redneck states.

snakeweasel · May 2021

@andres3 said:
The problem is it doesn't matter if you stop; you were in the "act" of backing up according to Geico, and as such it gives the other person in the parking lot free reign to come in from anywhere and ram you, and it'll still be your fault if they are going forward. Technically, your not "backing" if your stopped, but without a dash cam video, you are likely out of luck.

The issue is not that you were backing up but you were entering the path of the flow of traffic. Going backward or forward you still must yield right of way.

oldfarmer50 · May 2021

stickguy said:
I back in on occasion if it makes sense. Or will pull through when possible. My wife, if I told her she had to back in, would probably leave the car out in the aisle. She really doesn't like doing it and seems to have a phobia.

I think it is easier to back in since you can see clearly with side mirrors and camera. New cars, especially "trucky" ones like the RDX, have such big, blocky noses that it is just a wild guess what's going on.

I was in garage hell Thursday and must have backed 50 cars into dark tight spots. I mainly still use my mirrors but the backup camera came in handy when there was a column intruding into the spot.

snakeweasel · May 2021

Talk about bad parking.

henryn · May 2021

oldfarmer50 said:

fintail said:
I think I've heard of that. Funny that they'd lose the front plate probably for some "freedom" reason, then some would require restrictive parking to accommodate it. Or it could just be a ploy to call tow trucks and have the offender removed, with a $300 fee of course.

oldfarmer50 said:

fintail said:
I don't think there are any objective ways to defend mandated front-first parking, other than some level of irresponsible control-happy micromanagement. I suspect the odds are much greater to have an incident backing out than backing in or pulling away moving forward. I always back in or pull through so I am facing out, I also tend to park out in the sticks away from the riff-raff.

driver100 said:

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:
“ I just read that another sedan will be axed. 2021 last year for the Mazda 6. Also the Mazda CX3”

What is the world coming to? It won’t be long before we’ll have nothing but boxy SUVs to choose from. It’s the story of my life that if I like a product, the manufacturer will kill it faster than a jack rabbit. TV programs too. If my wife and I start watching a show they yank it off the air. I guess I’m no longer in a desirable demographic.
There should be a law that SUVs should have glass sides on them. I had to park between 2 SUVs in 2 separate spots today...in both cases I was parked with the front end out, in both cases I had to leave my parking spot very slowly because I couldn't see past the SUV on either side of me.
2 solutions....1) if my car had a periscope that came out of the grill, OR 2) if the SUVs were required to have mirrors I could look at to see up and down the aisles.
Or you could pull in face first like you’re supposed to do. I worked at a place where that was the law and you’d lose your parking lot privileges for a month if you backed in or pulled through. I can’t believe that people either back in or pull through a spot so they are facing the aisle at grocery stores and anywhere else for that matter when you know damn well you’re going to buy something and put it in the trunk. I try not to pull into a spot when I see that because I don’t want these nitwits banging into my front bumper trying to finagle a cart to get to their trunk. That is one of my biggest pet peeves.

A backup camera with a wide view is perfect for seeing around cars on either side when you pull in face first and have to back out. It ain’t like you’re driving your fathers Oldsmobile today. Wake up, there are some things today that are better given that there are too many beast mobiles in the world that you have to see around in parking lots.

Rant over.

jmonroe
We smarter more refined people prefer to back in;
“Needless to say, back-in parking takes more time and effort than head-in parking. Yet, it is easier, quicker, and safer when exiting. Thus we may conjecture that people take the trouble to back in demonstrate the ability to delay gratification; they want to invest more time and effort now so they can enjoy the fruits of their labor later. They demonstrate a culture of long-term orientation.”
Every article I see on the topic says it is a little more work in the beginning, because instead of aiming your car into a spot it takes some skill to back in to a space usually between two cars. But, when you drive out you have a clear view of what is immediately within your field of vision and that is when accidents happen - when you back out....way more accidents.
I know you will whine about grocery carts and how inconvenient it is for you but way more sources, including the AAA prefer going in backwards.
https://www.vox.com/2016/8/1/11926596/safer-back-into-parking-spaces

Don’t states with no front plate require that you don’t back into parking spots. I know Florida did that so that they could read the back plate.

You got something against freedom?
You got me thinking so I looked it up. These states don’t require a front plate:
Alabama
Arizona
Arkansas
Delaware
Florida
Georgia
Indiana
Kansas
Kentucky
Louisiana
Michigan
Mississippi
New Mexico
North Carolina
Ohio
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania
South Carolina
Tennessee
West Virginia

Not all of them are redneck states.

No, not ALL of them are. But SOME of them definitely are. I'm not about to stick my neck out and say which ones...

fintail · May 2021

I have something against contrarian pointlessness masquerading as "freedom".

You got something against rednecks?

I'd rather have a front plate than be forced to park head-in all the time.

oldfarmer50 said:

fintail said:
I think I've heard of that. Funny that they'd lose the front plate probably for some "freedom" reason, then some would require restrictive parking to accommodate it. Or it could just be a ploy to call tow trucks and have the offender removed, with a $300 fee of course.

oldfarmer50 said:

fintail said:
I don't think there are any objective ways to defend mandated front-first parking, other than some level of irresponsible control-happy micromanagement. I suspect the odds are much greater to have an incident backing out than backing in or pulling away moving forward. I always back in or pull through so I am facing out, I also tend to park out in the sticks away from the riff-raff.

driver100 said:

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:
“ I just read that another sedan will be axed. 2021 last year for the Mazda 6. Also the Mazda CX3”

What is the world coming to? It won’t be long before we’ll have nothing but boxy SUVs to choose from. It’s the story of my life that if I like a product, the manufacturer will kill it faster than a jack rabbit. TV programs too. If my wife and I start watching a show they yank it off the air. I guess I’m no longer in a desirable demographic.
There should be a law that SUVs should have glass sides on them. I had to park between 2 SUVs in 2 separate spots today...in both cases I was parked with the front end out, in both cases I had to leave my parking spot very slowly because I couldn't see past the SUV on either side of me.
2 solutions....1) if my car had a periscope that came out of the grill, OR 2) if the SUVs were required to have mirrors I could look at to see up and down the aisles.
Or you could pull in face first like you’re supposed to do. I worked at a place where that was the law and you’d lose your parking lot privileges for a month if you backed in or pulled through. I can’t believe that people either back in or pull through a spot so they are facing the aisle at grocery stores and anywhere else for that matter when you know damn well you’re going to buy something and put it in the trunk. I try not to pull into a spot when I see that because I don’t want these nitwits banging into my front bumper trying to finagle a cart to get to their trunk. That is one of my biggest pet peeves.

A backup camera with a wide view is perfect for seeing around cars on either side when you pull in face first and have to back out. It ain’t like you’re driving your fathers Oldsmobile today. Wake up, there are some things today that are better given that there are too many beast mobiles in the world that you have to see around in parking lots.

Rant over.

jmonroe
We smarter more refined people prefer to back in;
“Needless to say, back-in parking takes more time and effort than head-in parking. Yet, it is easier, quicker, and safer when exiting. Thus we may conjecture that people take the trouble to back in demonstrate the ability to delay gratification; they want to invest more time and effort now so they can enjoy the fruits of their labor later. They demonstrate a culture of long-term orientation.”
Every article I see on the topic says it is a little more work in the beginning, because instead of aiming your car into a spot it takes some skill to back in to a space usually between two cars. But, when you drive out you have a clear view of what is immediately within your field of vision and that is when accidents happen - when you back out....way more accidents.
I know you will whine about grocery carts and how inconvenient it is for you but way more sources, including the AAA prefer going in backwards.
https://www.vox.com/2016/8/1/11926596/safer-back-into-parking-spaces

Don’t states with no front plate require that you don’t back into parking spots. I know Florida did that so that they could read the back plate.

You got something against freedom?
You got me thinking so I looked it up. These states don’t require a front plate:
Alabama
Arizona
Arkansas
Delaware
Florida
Georgia
Indiana
Kansas
Kentucky
Louisiana
Michigan
Mississippi
New Mexico
North Carolina
Ohio
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania
South Carolina
Tennessee
West Virginia

Not all of them are redneck states.

fintail · May 2021

MB set the standard for backup cameras - the resolution on some 2011 models is better than some new cars in 2021.

abacomike said:
Here in our condo community (4000+ apartments), we are not allowed to park backing into our assigned parking spaces - $25 fines issued by our security department. The rationale is based upon visibility of license plates and display of right-rear window parking bar codes. The vehicle to my right is a large SUV - thus backing out of my space presents a problem where I cannot see vehicles or pedestrians approaching me from my right rear. Luckily my G90 has rear and front approaching pedestrian and vehicle sensors and warnings and will actually apply brakes automatically if a collision with a person or vehicle is imminent. My back-up cameras are limited in that they don’t have wide-angle capabilities as did my Mercedes vehicles. So I have to be more cautious when backing out of parking spaces.

tjc78 · May 2021

@fintail said:
MB set the standard for backup cameras - the resolution on some 2011 models is better than some new cars in 2021.

Our Volvos are pretty impressive, very sharp and fairly wide angle.

laurasdada · May 2021

roadburner said:
I decided to wash and detail the M235i today; at 7 years and 61k miles I think it still looks pretty good.

Looking very good, indeed.

roadburner · May 2021

oldfarmer50 said:

fintail said:
I think I've heard of that. Funny that they'd lose the front plate probably for some "freedom" reason, then some would require restrictive parking to accommodate it. Or it could just be a ploy to call tow trucks and have the offender removed, with a $300 fee of course.

oldfarmer50 said:

fintail said:
I don't think there are any objective ways to defend mandated front-first parking, other than some level of irresponsible control-happy micromanagement. I suspect the odds are much greater to have an incident backing out than backing in or pulling away moving forward. I always back in or pull through so I am facing out, I also tend to park out in the sticks away from the riff-raff.

driver100 said:

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:
“ I just read that another sedan will be axed. 2021 last year for the Mazda 6. Also the Mazda CX3”

What is the world coming to? It won’t be long before we’ll have nothing but boxy SUVs to choose from. It’s the story of my life that if I like a product, the manufacturer will kill it faster than a jack rabbit. TV programs too. If my wife and I start watching a show they yank it off the air. I guess I’m no longer in a desirable demographic.
There should be a law that SUVs should have glass sides on them. I had to park between 2 SUVs in 2 separate spots today...in both cases I was parked with the front end out, in both cases I had to leave my parking spot very slowly because I couldn't see past the SUV on either side of me.
2 solutions....1) if my car had a periscope that came out of the grill, OR 2) if the SUVs were required to have mirrors I could look at to see up and down the aisles.
Or you could pull in face first like you’re supposed to do. I worked at a place where that was the law and you’d lose your parking lot privileges for a month if you backed in or pulled through. I can’t believe that people either back in or pull through a spot so they are facing the aisle at grocery stores and anywhere else for that matter when you know damn well you’re going to buy something and put it in the trunk. I try not to pull into a spot when I see that because I don’t want these nitwits banging into my front bumper trying to finagle a cart to get to their trunk. That is one of my biggest pet peeves.

A backup camera with a wide view is perfect for seeing around cars on either side when you pull in face first and have to back out. It ain’t like you’re driving your fathers Oldsmobile today. Wake up, there are some things today that are better given that there are too many beast mobiles in the world that you have to see around in parking lots.

Rant over.

jmonroe
We smarter more refined people prefer to back in;
“Needless to say, back-in parking takes more time and effort than head-in parking. Yet, it is easier, quicker, and safer when exiting. Thus we may conjecture that people take the trouble to back in demonstrate the ability to delay gratification; they want to invest more time and effort now so they can enjoy the fruits of their labor later. They demonstrate a culture of long-term orientation.”
Every article I see on the topic says it is a little more work in the beginning, because instead of aiming your car into a spot it takes some skill to back in to a space usually between two cars. But, when you drive out you have a clear view of what is immediately within your field of vision and that is when accidents happen - when you back out....way more accidents.
I know you will whine about grocery carts and how inconvenient it is for you but way more sources, including the AAA prefer going in backwards.
https://www.vox.com/2016/8/1/11926596/safer-back-into-parking-spaces

Don’t states with no front plate require that you don’t back into parking spots. I know Florida did that so that they could read the back plate.

You got something against freedom?
You got me thinking so I looked it up. These states don’t require a front plate:
Alabama
Arizona
Arkansas
Delaware
Florida
Georgia
Indiana
Kansas
Kentucky
Louisiana
Michigan
Mississippi
New Mexico
North Carolina
Ohio
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania
South Carolina
Tennessee
West Virginia

Not all of them are redneck states.

I hate front plates because they are unsightly and they make it easier on the revenue speed/red light cameras.
Of course sheeple think that they are just wonderful.

qbrozen · May 2021

@fintail said:
MB set the standard for backup cameras - the resolution on some 2011 models is better than some new cars in 2021.

I disagree... with an asterisk. The standard SHOULD have been set in 2008 by Infiniti with their 360 surround backup cam. That thing is a marvel. Sadly, it did/has not become as widespread as it should, so I can’t call it “the standard.”

henryn · May 2021

roadburner said:

oldfarmer50 said:

fintail said:
I think I've heard of that. Funny that they'd lose the front plate probably for some "freedom" reason, then some would require restrictive parking to accommodate it. Or it could just be a ploy to call tow trucks and have the offender removed, with a $300 fee of course.

oldfarmer50 said:

fintail said:
I don't think there are any objective ways to defend mandated front-first parking, other than some level of irresponsible control-happy micromanagement. I suspect the odds are much greater to have an incident backing out than backing in or pulling away moving forward. I always back in or pull through so I am facing out, I also tend to park out in the sticks away from the riff-raff.

driver100 said:

jmonroe1 said:

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:
“ I just read that another sedan will be axed. 2021 last year for the Mazda 6. Also the Mazda CX3”

What is the world coming to? It won’t be long before we’ll have nothing but boxy SUVs to choose from. It’s the story of my life that if I like a product, the manufacturer will kill it faster than a jack rabbit. TV programs too. If my wife and I start watching a show they yank it off the air. I guess I’m no longer in a desirable demographic.
There should be a law that SUVs should have glass sides on them. I had to park between 2 SUVs in 2 separate spots today...in both cases I was parked with the front end out, in both cases I had to leave my parking spot very slowly because I couldn't see past the SUV on either side of me.
2 solutions....1) if my car had a periscope that came out of the grill, OR 2) if the SUVs were required to have mirrors I could look at to see up and down the aisles.
Or you could pull in face first like you’re supposed to do. I worked at a place where that was the law and you’d lose your parking lot privileges for a month if you backed in or pulled through. I can’t believe that people either back in or pull through a spot so they are facing the aisle at grocery stores and anywhere else for that matter when you know damn well you’re going to buy something and put it in the trunk. I try not to pull into a spot when I see that because I don’t want these nitwits banging into my front bumper trying to finagle a cart to get to their trunk. That is one of my biggest pet peeves.

A backup camera with a wide view is perfect for seeing around cars on either side when you pull in face first and have to back out. It ain’t like you’re driving your fathers Oldsmobile today. Wake up, there are some things today that are better given that there are too many beast mobiles in the world that you have to see around in parking lots.

Rant over.

jmonroe
We smarter more refined people prefer to back in;
“Needless to say, back-in parking takes more time and effort than head-in parking. Yet, it is easier, quicker, and safer when exiting. Thus we may conjecture that people take the trouble to back in demonstrate the ability to delay gratification; they want to invest more time and effort now so they can enjoy the fruits of their labor later. They demonstrate a culture of long-term orientation.”
Every article I see on the topic says it is a little more work in the beginning, because instead of aiming your car into a spot it takes some skill to back in to a space usually between two cars. But, when you drive out you have a clear view of what is immediately within your field of vision and that is when accidents happen - when you back out....way more accidents.
I know you will whine about grocery carts and how inconvenient it is for you but way more sources, including the AAA prefer going in backwards.
https://www.vox.com/2016/8/1/11926596/safer-back-into-parking-spaces

Don’t states with no front plate require that you don’t back into parking spots. I know Florida did that so that they could read the back plate.

You got something against freedom?
You got me thinking so I looked it up. These states don’t require a front plate:
Alabama
Arizona
Arkansas
Delaware
Florida
Georgia
Indiana
Kansas
Kentucky
Louisiana
Michigan
Mississippi
New Mexico
North Carolina
Ohio
Oklahoma
Pennsylvania
South Carolina
Tennessee
West Virginia

Not all of them are redneck states.
I hate front plates because they are unsightly and they make it easier on the revenue speed/red light cameras.
Of course sheeple think that they are just wonderful.

I've lived here in Texas pretty much all of my life, with a year here and 6 months there. And Texas has always used front and rear license plates, so I've never really thought much about it. I know they use the front plates to track down those who go through the EZ-Tag lane without an EZ-Tag. While I definitely don't like red light cameras, I think catching and prosecuting the people who refuse to pay their fair share on the toll roads is a good idea.

We can argue all day about whether toll roads are a good idea, as opposed to general revenue (taxes) being used to fund all roads. But as long as we do have toll roads, I do believe you should pay for it if you want to use it.

Here in Houston, we have a number of toll roads. One in particular, the Westpark Toll Road is a nightmare during rush hour. You're actually better off just staying on the surface streets. A few years back, the politicians in charge of such matters proposed an increase in the tolls, just about doubling the cost on that particular toll road. The idea being, it's no use as it is, you pay $2 to sit. Increase that to $4 and enough people would drop out that the traffic would actually move again. The "people" had a screaming fit, the tolls were not increased, and at 5 o'clock you have a parking lot.

sda · May 2021

roadburner said:
I decided to wash and detail the M235i today; at 7 years and 61k miles I think it still looks pretty good.

Not sure why but I didn’t think your car was white or had a sunroof. Looks great.

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