Lease Questions - Ask Here

joker382 · June 2005

I'm torn! I got a pretty good deal on a lease for the Acura RSX (259 a month, 3 yr, 12K, no money down, just tax 898 and bank Acq Fee of 1095 up front). Do you think I can get a similar deal on an 05 Accord EXL coupe? or a Scion tC with ground effects, pedestal spoiler and leather (19764.47 with tax and fees and those acces (no registration fee) and leather is an addition 1325 on top). I like the accord and scion better, but i feel like thats a pretty good deal! Help me out, im torn!!!!!!!

gperr · June 2005

Car_man,

Would there be any deviation in the numbers you provided if navigation was added to either vehicle, how about Rear Entertainment System in the Pathfinder?

gperr

andre1 · June 2005

CarMan,
For that additional lease cash ($1500) you mentioned for certain states on the 2005 CTS and CTS-V, does that only apply to residents of that state? I contacted a dealer in Kentucky (I live in NC) and he thought it only applied to residents, but wasn't sure. Or, could it apply to relatives of residents (I would doubt it, but it never hurts to ask since it is a significant savings).

conanc · June 2005

Car_man,

How does this look to you? Maybe it will be helpful information for someone else as well. Thank you!

Honda Accord LX (automatic):

Invoice on the vehicle is $19,086.59 (but they are offering it at $500 under invoice) for $18,586.59
sign and drive with no money down
36 months, 36,000 miles
The lease end buyout - $11,470
payments $269/mo for 35 months including sales tax

baranis · June 2005

Here is the informtion you needed to put together some sample lease payments.

1) S2000 is being negotiated at $32,400 but that doesn't include the $3,400 my husband would be putting down. Should he even put anything down?

2) Odyssey EXL-RES/NAV was being negotiated at $31,900. We haven't signed anything yet, so obviously when I go back on Friday, I would love to be armed with anything you can throw my way so we can get the best deal on the two cars.

Finally, I read on one of the boards that if your lease payment is 1.3% of your MSRP (or maybe it is selling price) that you are getting a good deal. Is that true?

Thanks again!

jake20 · June 2005

hello car man:

never was good at math + i'm new to the leasing world...so i'm sure i'm overlooking something here as i try to figure out if paying off my lease makes reasonably good sense.

situation: leased a 04 Acura TL for 39 months at $560/month at $32,775 capitalized cost with no $ down. Im only 9 payments into it, which means Ive paid $5040 on it. But now I want to get out of the lease (major shift in needs/priorities).

Lease payoff amount is $29,300 with no penalty fees. All Ive read is that you get screwed when you payoff a lease early, but it looks semi-doable...what am I missing?

can probably get $28,000 from a dealer. And likely $30,000+/- if I pay off Honda Financing, and then sell it myself privately (approx 13,000 miles).

So the way I figure it, I either breakeven or lose $500-1000 on the deal.

The loss is not good, but I'm buying a cheaper (and used) car so I make-up for any loss within 6 months or so because of the $100+/month I save on car payments. So from a $ perspective, seems Im better off in the long-run.

Is there a hole in this logic? is there something i'm not factoring in?

thanks for any advice on whether this makes sense to do.

dwynne · June 2005

I think several folks have told you that you are paying way too much for the S2000. You should be able to get it around invoice. I just noticed you are in "LA" (not the one in CA). Holmes Honda in Shreveport is selling one (or any of them) for just over $30k - here is their ad on flebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=4556542722

If you are closer to the big easy, then call these folks (this auction ended, but I am betting you can deal with them):

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6253&item=4556748642

Normally you never put anything down on a lease. For sure on the S2000 deal where the money is < 2%. Besides, aren't you the one who wants to lease so you can write the payments off against your business? Less down = higher payments = more to write off. Roll the acquisition fee into the lease and have them waive the security deposit (makes the MF slightly higher).

Conversely, the Oddy looks like a good deal. The EX-L with DVD and NAV has an invoice of $31,403.

Leasing is just like buying - step one is to negotiate the lowest possible price before you do anything else. Don't get caught up the "lease numbers" until you have hammered them down to near invoice on the S2000.

I ran the number for someone over in the S2000 forum.

So if you did the deal at invoice AND paid the acq, security, and first month up front it would be $328.66 a month . Roll in the acq fee and get them to waive the security deposit (MF goes up 0.0001) and it would be $348.71 with just first month, dealer fee, tax, tags, title due

So get them to invoice and roll the acquisition fee and drop the security deposit and you should be at $348.71 plus tax.

Dennis

dwynne · June 2005

Get a car dealer to call and get a buy out price, just to see if their price is higher or lower than the one you have. Or have them fax you a detailed break down of the buyout amount.

Sometimes when you call as a private individual they give you a price that includes sales tax. Since you are selling to a dealer then no tax is due so your payoff may be too high - which is good news for you. The depends on your state - if you paid all the taxes up front then this would not change. If (like where I live) you pay taxes on the payment or depreciation only, then they could have quoted you a payoff with taxes included.

When I call for a payoff/buyout they ALWAYS give me a price that includes taxes since that is what is required in my state if I were to buy the car. I have to get an itemized statement from them that shows the taxes so I know the "Real" price if I were to sell the car. They never get the tax right anyway :-)

If a dealer calls - they have different numbers to call or even "press 1 if you are a dealer" and they never get a buyout price with taxes.

If the payoff did not include taxes, then depending on the state there would be taxes due if you tried to buy it yourself and sell it. This would make it far less profitable to do (or more of a loss). In a lot of states only a licensed car dealer or broker or the lessee (you) can buy the car off lease - so you can't sell it directly to another private party without going through a dealer. I have done this before and paid the dealer a modest fee to handle the paperwork for me. The dealer buys the car from the lease bank then sells it to the buyer you locate.

Depending on the lease bank and how low your payment is (relative to what others are paying) you may be able to find someone to just take over your lease with nothing lost by you (other than the cost to advertise it on those sites). This would be places like www.leasetrade.com , www.swapalease.com , etc.

Dennis

jpdesd · June 2005

Can I get him out of it? He signed the document yesterday.
He is in MA. What are his rights?
Does he have Three days?

jake20 · June 2005

hadn't thought about taxes. i'm sure they're baked into the payoff price. that should make it a little better.

any experience with the swapalease.com and leasetrade.com sites? any negatives to be aware of if i go that route?

thanks...

351 · June 2005

To all,

Does anyone know what credit score is needed to get the current s2000 lease offer from Honda? I just came back from the dealership, I got the price that I wanted but at the end they told me that I'm not qualify with a credit score of 640. And of course they offered a higher Money Factor of .00133 instead of the .00073. Please correct me if I'm wrong, is it true that is easier to get qualify in a leasing vs. financing (owning) a vehicle? In the past I've successfully leased a Nissan and a Lexus and they were both $33,000+ vehicle. Could it be that Honda Financial is more strict? Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Car_man and Dennis  thanks for the info/advise from my previous post.

-Jeff

kywon · June 2005

Car_man-

Thank you for the Saab information. I called a dealership and went through the numbers with them and they are claming that the "$3,500 lease cash" on the 9-3 is really made up of $2,000 bonus cash and $1,000 lease cash. They say that the $2,000 bonus cash is already factored into the GM/Saab Employee Discount Price that one pulls up on the saabusa.com website (admittedly it does say "after applicable incentives"), so the discount from that price is really only $1,000. I just wanted to get confirmation on this as my impression from what I've read in this forum is contrary to the dealership's statement.

Also, would you please give me the MF and residual on the Saab 9-3 Arc sedan for a 2 and 3 yr/12k per year lease. Thank you again.

kywon

CarMan@Edmunds · June 2005

Hi eman4. The lease money factor and residual value that you were quoted to lease the 2005 Honda Accord EX that you are interested in are right on the money, assuming that you are having your car's security deposit waived. As you already seem to be aware, the "Price adjustment" that was included in your deal is just a fancy way for the dealer that you are working with to increase your car's price. Either way, whether you are getting this car for $500 under invoice or $1,000 under, you are getting a heck of a deal on it.

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scott31 · June 2005

I need lease numbers for an '05 MDX with Touring and Nav. (Mom and Dad are looking this weekend)

3 years, 12k miles per year. and 10k per year if they offer it.

also, does AHFC offer a balloon note lease? what are the #'s on that?

Is there a 39 or 42 mo sweet spot?

Thanks!

scott31 · June 2005

I see mention of a $1500 incentive. Is that on purchase and/or lease? I see no mention of it on Edmunds or KBB. We are in VA if that makes any difference.

Thanks again!

CarMan@Edmunds · June 2005

Here's the information that you are looking for, Zed. If you were to lease a 2005 Toyota Camry LE through Toyota Financial Services in New Jersey right now for for 36 months with 15,000 miles per year, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00100 and 54%, respectively.

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CarMan@Edmunds · June 2005

Hi s60leaser. You certainly have an appropriate username. The following articles contain a ton of useful information on how leasing works: 10 Steps to Leasing a New Car and Calculate Your Own Lease Payment. I suggest that you check them out prior to getting into serious negotiations for your new cars. I would be more than happy to give you an idea of what sort of lease payment you should expect to pay on the cars that you are interested in, however in order for me to do so I need you to tell me their full MSRPs and approximate selling prices.

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CarMan@Edmunds · June 2005

You're very welcome, baranis. As far as the $3,400 that your husband is considering putting down on this car goes, I always advise consumers against making any sort of down payment when leasing. I do so for two main reasons. The first is if your vehicle is totaled in an accident or stolen during your lease, your insurance company pays off the bank that you were leasing it through and your down payment essentially disappears. The second main reason is that down payments on leased vehicles do nothing to reduce their lease-end purchase prices. So your lease-end purchase option price for this S2000 would be exactly the same, regardless of whether you had put $3,400 down, or had made absolutely no down payment at all.

Let's calculate some sample lease payments on the vehicles that you are interested in and see what we come up with. According to my calculations, if you were to lease a 2005 Honda S2000 with an MSRP of $33,000 and a selling price of $32,400 (there is a decent chance that you will be able to negotiate an even greater discount than that if you shop around) through American Honda Finance Corp. right now for 36 months with 12,000 miles per year, your zero down, pre-tax monthly payment should be around $398.

If you were to lease a 2005 Honda Odyssey EXL with the rear entertainment and navigation systems with an MSRP of $34,000 and a selling price of $31,900 through AHFC right now for 36 months with 12,000 miles per, your zero down, pre-tax monthly payment should be around $500.

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123appraiser · June 2005

Thank you carman. The total MSRP is $50,985. The five quotes for the price of car range from low of $45,759 to 46,659. all but the highest quote included what they called a $2000 june lease incentitive from Volvo. The "invoice" of the car as per edmunds is $47,609. I sincerely thank you for your guidance.

Regards

CarMan@Edmunds · June 2005

I should be able to give you an idea of what this car's current lease program is like, sessl. If you were to lease a 2006 Audi A3 2.0T base through Audi Financial Services right now for 2 years with 15,000 miles per, its base lease money factor and residual value should be .00250 and 62%. If you were to do an otherwise identical 3 year lease of this car, its numbers should be .00250 and 51%.

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CarMan@Edmunds · June 2005

I am sorry to hear about your buyer's remorse, hcl. Unfortunately, once you have driven off in your new vehicle it is yours and you cannot return it. You can always go back to the dealer that you got it from and see if they will work with you, but the odds of you being able to get out of your deal for free at this point are very very low. The Murano is a nice vehicle that you are spending a decent amount of money on. Relax and enjoy it since you can't get out of it anyhow.

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CarMan@Edmunds · June 2005

You're very welcome, dg170.

Car_man
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bondguy1 · June 2005

Recently leased a new Audi A6 3.2 w/

Premium Pkg
Convenience Pkg
Premium Leather
Voice Command
Navigation (DVD)
Sirius Satellite Radio
18" Wheels
Advanced Key

The list price on the car was $51,770. I leased it with cap cost reduction (including $1,500 previous loyalty from being a previous Audi owner) and dealer discount for a total cost of $48,001. For 3 6 month lease with a total of 15K miles annually and me coming up with $1,500 total at start including 1st months payment, tax, tag, etc..., 35 remaining payments of $625 + tax. I could have got same car without Satellite Radio, without Voice Command, and without DVD Navigation for $605/month. Is this a good deal?
I have recently seen ads starting for $569/month but those deals are for a car with a list price of about $44,700. That also includes 10K miles annually and you need about $1,999 at start plus tax,tag and dealer fees. So you tell me?

CarMan@Edmunds · June 2005

No problem, Dennis. It happens all the time. The numbers for a 2 year, 15,000 miles per lease of a 2005 Mazda RX-8 are currently .00107 and 55%, respectively. Mazda's 12,000 miles per year residual values are 2% higher than its 15,000 miles per year residuals. The residual values for RX-8s with manual transmissions are 2% higher than the resids for models with auto. trans. I believe that there is only $1,000 total in cash incentives on leases of this car in June.

Car_man
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CarMan@Edmunds · June 2005

Greetings ptkim. Let's calculate a sample lease payment on the car that you are interested in for you and see what we come up with. According to my calculations, if you were to lease a 2006 Infiniti M45 Sport with an MSRP of $58,030 and a selling price of $56,030 through Infiniti Financial Services right now for 39 months with 15,000 miles per year, your zero down, pre-tax monthly payment should be around $768.

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CarMan@Edmunds · June 2005

You don't need to find out about this incentive, s60leaser. I just told you about it. I believe that I answered the questions that you previously asked about this deal, but let me know if you have any others.

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dwynne · June 2005

I have paid a dealer as little as $299 to have this done - sell a car off of lease to someone. So that may be an option for you.

I have looked at the lease sites and there are a LOT of bad lease deals on them. If you are ahead on miles (used too little VS the time with the car) and/or have a really low note (due to cap cost reduction, low rate, or good negotiating on the price of the car) then you may be able to find someone to take it. If your note is about what someone could get on a new car today, or you behind on the miles then it will be hard to move. I think leasetrade has a price you pay that is "run it until you get rid of it".

Check the details about how much it cost to have someone take it over, if it they can - and if the bank releases you from reliability if they do. It varies from bank to bank.

http://www.leasetrade.com/learning_center/lease_companies.cfm

Dennis

CarMan@Edmunds · June 2005

Hi aharris3. American Honda Finance Corp.'s current base lease money factor and residual value for a 36 month, 15,000 miles per lease of a 2005 Honda Pilot LX should be .00137 and 60%, respectively. I would be happy to give you an idea of what your lease payment would be like on this truck, however in order for me to do so I need you to tell me its full MSRP.

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CarMan@Edmunds · June 2005

I should be able to give you an idea of what Volvo Finance's current lease program is like on the 2005 Volvo S60 R, Edward, if you let me know how long you want to lease it for and how many miles per year you need to be able to drive it.

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CarMan@Edmunds · June 2005

Hi joker382. Acura has a pretty good lease program on the 2005 RSX right now, but Honda's lease program on the Accord is attractive as well. If you let me know what the full MSRP and selling price of the Accord that you are considering are, I would be happy to calculate a sample lease payment on it for you. Toyota is not currently providing any sort of lease support on the Scion tC, so its lease program is not nearly as attractive as the programs that are available on the RSX and Accord right now.

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CarMan@Edmunds · June 2005

Gperr, while most manufacturers have some sort of reduction in residual values for vehicles that are equipped with navigation or rear entertainment systems, I do not believe that Infiniti Financial Services or Nissan Motor Acceptance Corp. do. The residual values for these vehicles should be the same, regardless of how they are equipped.

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nyatl · June 2005

Thanks for replying to all of my posts, thanks for the wealth of information. I now understand the world of leasing and am glad I decided to go this route instead of financing. I am enjoying my Lexus RX 330. I can't stay out of it. It's been 2 weeks now and I have close to 700 miles on it already!!!! Thanks again.

hcl · June 2005

Car_Man: I'm not surprised. I'm the queen of second-guessing myself but I'll get over it now that it's settled. I'm thoroughly enjoying my Murano, though. Having moved from a large SUV, the handling is a refreshing change. Thanks for your advice! (-:

joker382 · June 2005

I got a quote over the internet about a month ago from the dealership and they gave me a price of 22,376 including destination and prep. charges (whatever that is). That's for a 2005 EXL Accord Coupe with Auto transmission. They also gave me a lease price of 339.88 a month with 1st month and taxes down assuming tier 1 credit (which i have). I feel like that is high, but like i said i am not sure. I am in NY so im not sure what other fees or taxes that would be applied.
Thanks carman!!

wongx2 · June 2005

36-39 months, 12,000 miles per year. Thanks car_man! You're a hero!

cartalk1 · June 2005

My Lexus dealer tried to strong arm me yesterday into putting down what she called Multiple Security Deposits(MSD's) on a GS300 lease. I give them approx. $6,000, and it lowers my monthly lease payment by about $75. Then at the end of the lease, they give me my $6,000 back. Seems(based on my approx. nos. above) like I'd be making about 15% annually on my money. Sounds like a good deal. Your thoughts????? She claimed all the sales reps at the dealership got their cars via MSD's 'cause it was such a fantastic deal?

jgbanker · June 2005

I am returning 2 Grand Cherokee Lardeos (leased) and picking up 2 new ones. I know there is a $2500 rebate + $1000 loyalty + $500 (coupon) that Chrysler sent that is in addition to all other incentives. TOTAL $4000 in rebates on each. The dealer told me that the Chrysler Financial bank fee is $700, is that correct? Sounds really high. The deal I was quoted is $380 a month for 12K, 39 mos (was also told that 36 months would increase the payment). Sticker price is $34670. Does this seem like a decent deal. My up front costs are $700 bank fee + $525 motor vehicle (NJ does 4 years of registration up front) + first months payment.

kyfdx · June 2005

Your salesperson is correct..

Lexus MSD program is a "no-brainer"... a very good deal..

regards,
kyfdx

kyfdx · June 2005

The A3 numbers are terrible!!

A nice car, but no one is going to lease on those terms...

kyfdx · June 2005

I don't think AHFC allows lease assumptions..

If you can trade in the car and only take a $1300 loss, I'd be all over that.. You are fortunate that you bought a popular car with good re-sale...

regards,
kyfdx

zheka212 · June 2005

Allow me to disagree...

I've done research on this before leasing my Infiniti, and posted my findings here...

Basically, this is a great way to get a very high return on your money.. BUT!!!

This all comes down to the difference between financing and leasing -- if your car is totalled (and this does not mean you crash and almost die, but if the car is stolen, and all 6 airbags are removed, they gross at about 2.5k a piece -- that and missing headlights will get you a "total loss" vehicle), the insurance company and the leasing bank (this is how both Infiniti and Lexus operate) consider any money paid at lease inception "cap cost reductions" for insurance purposes. What this means, is that the $6k you were hoping to get back are now used by the insurance company to offset their payment to the leasing bank. You get nothing back -- so it is somewhat of a gamble, not just pure 15% return on the dollar.

I have spend about 3 hrs combined on the phone with Infiniti, Lexus, and Progressive of PA to be sure I understand the implications correctly. If anyone here feels that this does not make sense -- I agree. However, before you take the plunge, make sure you call your insurance company, and speak with a claims adjuster -- no one else can answer this question correctly for you.

dwynne · June 2005

You can disagree all you want, but you are wrong :-)

The difference is you putting money DOWN on the lease - to reduce the cap cost and you putting money into extra security deposits. Big difference. You do get your security deposits back even if the car is stolen or totalled as long as your insurance company pays off the lease bank (make sure you have GAP coverage).

With the extra security deposits the lease bank gives you a lower rate. This the "wise" way to put money into a lease.

Dennis

dwynne · June 2005

"I don't think AHFC allows lease assumptions.."

They do, but there is a catch.

Dennis

Honda American Credit/Financial
Yes, this lease company allows lease assumptions
Telephone: 800-457-9929
Transfer Restrictions: None
Buyer Credit Application Fee: $50
Lease Transfer Fee: $50
Original Lessee Remain Liable? Yes
Does Security Deposit Transfer? Yes
Other Information: None

zheka212 · June 2005

If you read my post carefully, you will see that I agree with you -- THIS DOES NOT MAKE SENCE!!! Since the bank is paid, you have completed your obligation, and should get your money back. But if you choose to go this route -- do yourself a favor, call your insurance company, insist on speaking with a claims adjuster, and make sure they fully understand your question -- I'd be very curious to see what they say -- not what you think makes sence. I think this is the biggest scam since before we ever heard of Enron.

BTW -- Gap insurance is included in all Infiniti and Honda leases -- not so sure about Lexus. In case someone tries to sell an extra one to the people of this forum.

gpearce · June 2005

Hi Car Man:

This post is extremely useful. Thanks for the great information as always.

I am looking to lease a Volvo V50 T5 FWD pretty well equipped in Southern Cal. I received the following quote:

Price: $30,940
Term: 39 months
Mileage: 13,846
Drive Off: $544.33
Payment: $535.58 (including tax)

Further inquiry got the following info on this deal: money factor of 0.00256 and the residual is 51% which makes $17,572.

I was hopiing the payments were going to be much lower for a lease. To lower the payments, they are suggesting a 60mth lease with $3500 down and a payment of 410.15 a month with mileage of 15k/year.

Can you tell me: 1) is this a good deal? 2) does that money factor and residual make sense to you for this car at this time?

Thanks so much.

kyfdx · June 2005

If you borrow $31,000 at 4.9% for 60 months.. Your payment would only be $584/mo.. And, you would own the car after 60 payments...

Compared to their $535/mo lease payment, that would be the better way to go..

Is $30,940 the MSRP or the selling price of the car?

Either lease seems like a bad deal..

regards,
kyfdx

s60leaser · June 2005

Carman
So now you know how new-and bad,apparently- I am at this type of communnication.Sorry!

,Idid not know and did not find your reply until just now.I have been looking,and reading,but just couldn't figure it out.Does the site work differently on a MAC or is it just me?I'm guessing me....
OK,the numbers-if you're still willing-are:
Volvo s60 2.5AWD with premium and climate
MSRP36,75000
lease price34,600
money factor.00009(Volvo CAr Finance)
Residual Value .56
3 year lease
10,00 miles/year
taxes 6%(my stats sales tax)
$ down Zero,
They are quoting $454/month
Fees:$645acq.fee,$450,1st month,License$155,Coveyance$175,VOW? $125,$450Security deposit
What do you think?
Also,I will read both articles you referenced in your response.Now If I can just figure out how to tell when you answer me.... :confuse:

zheka212 · June 2005

Hello All,

does anyone have the current GMAC lease figures for a Pontiac Vibe base FWD wagon?

We are looking around for a lease on a base with manual tranny with the power equipment group 1.

Interested in leasing it for 36/12 or 39/12 term. Residuals and money factors would be greatly appreciated.

Also, does anyone know what the acquisition fee/etc. are in NY? Never leased a car here, but I know for a Honda the aquisition fee is 1095 vs 595 everywhere else.

Thanks!

gpearce · June 2005

$30,940 is the selling price of the V50 T5 FWD. The MRSP is just under $33,000.

Thanks for the information. An upfront payment of $3500 on a lease doesn't sit well with me either. Purchase does seem like the better way to go. Unfortunately, Volvo lease programs don't seem to be competitive.

Thanks again.

dino001 · June 2005

Hey Car Man:

Could you give a short explanation how the rental (finance) charge is determined given known money factor. This way we could ballpark ourselves the payments based on MF and Res.

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