Glad your dad is improving. A hernia is such a simple condition, but the associated effects can be life threatening. That said, hernia repair has come a long way in the past 20 years. In many cases now, it's outpatient surgery with rapid recovery times.
and a rep from their energy conservation agency let it slip that Subaru will be releasing a hybrid next year?! coulnd't confirm it from the Sube people at the show, mum is the word from them! But I did see the new legacy and outback, all I can say I WANT!! couldn't get inside one though but at least they weren't on a turn table thingy. Also saw the B9 concept, looks cool, but not really practical. Subaru had a Archad version of the Grand Tourismo Rally driving game there and it was one of those things riding on shocks taht gives you feed back when you corner and give you the bumpy ride of a rally race, really COOL! Had a Rally car there as well, it was actually unlocked, but heavily circled by Reps.
Okay back to the original reason for this post, a Sube Hybrid next year?! what's everyone's thoughts on it? I for one am looking forward to it. I love the utility of my Forester but at the same time I am intrigued by the Toyota Prius, if I can combined the two that would be ideal.
The new 7 seaters is supposed to compete with the MDX and the Lexus RX, the Lexus will already offer a hybrid so Subaru could try to compete with them.
Seems like a long shot, though. To risk putting their first implementation of the technology on their flagship car?
I would love to see it, but I doubt it will happen by next year.
I see you figured out the brightness control by yourself :-) FYI: I had the same reaction as your wife regarding the scoop being distracting but you can tell her that you quickly get accustomed to it. I certainly never notice it being there anymore.
The boot has a full-size spare wheel under the floor, a ski hole through to the cabin and a large volume, although this is compromised by the use of boot-lid hinges rather than struts.
The gooseneck hinges in the trunk are at least covered, like what Toyota did on the Camry. So it eats up a little space but will not crush your groceries.
Full-size spare, yet they don't say what size tire is used. I bet the US will get donuts. I wonder which wheel/tire combos will fit in there, probably all but the Outback's, like it is now.
My sales rep called to appologise on behalf of Subaru of Canada. He spent the day in seminars yesterday with SoC in anticipation of getting some inside news and pricing on new models for me. However they wasted the day talking up the need for "better customer service", and told him next to nothing about the new models, were even tight lipped about the existence of the new Legacy and OB....as if they were still top secret, and hadn't been announced. These days most folks - esp Subaru buyers?? - are a little bit too smart and curious not to do at least a little bit of research on what is coming next, so their guarded approach with their own people is a bit hard to understand. He knows as much as we do from the web, and cant wait to get into a Legacy GT, so was a little disappointed.
Maybe there are still in general too many 04s sitting unsold, and they do not want their sales team to focus on new and as yet unavailable product. But avialability is patchy for some models - there are almost no MT FXTs left in our part of the world, and as word spreads there will soon be none. Also, the new Legacy/OB will spread the appeal, and if they knew what was coming and when, they may snag some deferred deals.
So anyone know how far ahead pricing is typically released for a new model before it is avaialable to drive away? I have a deal pending on an 04 FXT, but would really like to know the final pricing, specs, warranty changes and availability on both the Forester and OB line for 05, as I could (I think) hold out to summer.
Dunno, but good question. Even when we find out the MSRPs we'll want to know the invoice prices, if/when incentives will occur, etc. We're a tough bunch to satisfy.
That's hard to believe, as the sedan (or wagon) does not appear to have a trunk key hole. Maybe just a handle under the license plate, that locks/unlocks with the power door locks?
Subaru can't be that stupid not to put in a boot/truch release. The UK model does..
Check under of this site. Go to 'Subaru Range' then click on the Legacy pic; click on 'features' then look under interior. http://www.subaru.co.uk/index2.htm It is even electronic.
Maybe it was in the Aussie reviews...can the release be on the door, under the 'fuel door pull' like lexus' or such. I would imagine they are side by side...anyone know where the fuel door release is going to be?
Okay, I checked what Mutsuraboshi posted the 'estate' and 'saloon', wagon, sedan---I saw the release on the sedan, but not on the wagon? What gives?
I think Subaru is being shortsighted in withholding data and pricing on the 05 models. Especially if the generally held view that their motive is to keep the focus on the 04s is true.
Internet savvy buyers already know about the new models and will withhold making a buying decision anyway. For those wanting a Subaru now or want to take advantage of the great deals on the 04s, they're still going to buy.
So what's that leave us? The picky shopper who may be considering an 05 but is also looking at the G35, A4, IS300 or some other upscale performance vehicle. Armed with solid data, this shopper may very well be convinced to wait until the 05s hit the showroom floor. But since the local Subaru sales staff can only shrug their shoulders in helpless ignorance, said shopper may very well just say the heck with it and head across the street and right into the Infiniti dealer's front door!
Listen I know it's tough, but did you ever think for a second that just maybe and I mean maybe SOA is still in the very final negotiations for price with Fuji. I mean they just added a additional model to the 05 with the Outback XT without leather or roof 3 weeks ago. They are still fine tuning the models and prices. Believe me I have a great source at a dealership who has never been wrong yet. Of course I know the focus is 04s and I know most would think all the pricing has to be done, but you never know for sure and let's hope Subaru is fighting to get the price just right for all of it's awesome super loyal customers and even a bunch of new converts...
If SOA is still working on final configurations.... Seems like making leather an option on the Legacy Limited would cut costs. I'm thinking, if you've got a little money to burn, and you don't want a Turbo, you would probably go for an Outback Limited or other more luxurious Outback variations anyway. Having a lower cost option would produce a true value leader - like the 03SE or 04Anniversary Editions.
Just checking out the OB pictures at need-desire and noticed a couple of things: 1) None of the exterior shots show roof crossbars. Are they now an option? 2) No more Weather band channel on the radio. Did they do away with that along with the cassette? 3) I can't tell what the buttons on the steering wheel are for. Any ideas?
Quite a few, if not all, of the pictures on need-desire are of non-US (or pre-production) spec. vehicles. For example, there's a pic of straight chrome dual exhaust but the ones in Chicago had curved non-chrome dual exhaust.
1) One of the pics that Brian took at Chicago shows crossbars on an '05 LL Bean. Still may be optional though. I hope they are since I just take them off anyway. I use Yakima bars instead.
EDIT: The OB mini brochure shows cross bars in every picture.
2) Probably picture of non-US models.
EDIT: No mention of WB in mini brochure, so who knows.
3) Buttons are stereo controls for H6 models and SportShift buttons for OB XT (Turbo).
Need-Desire pics, other than Detroit & Chicago, are mainly JDM. US autoshow pics are of prelim. vehicles. Appears cross bars, weather band, & LSRD are going to be standard items on 05 OBWs. Steering wheel buttons are probably for shifting on OBXT. June seems so far away right now.
OT- You ever road trip along 90 from Albany/Utica/Syracuse?
Why yes, that thought crossed my mind. But then I dismissed it since I figured a squared away company like Subaru would have finalized their pricing structure months before the actual release date. It seems incomprehensible to me that they would start building a car without knowing the asking price. Is that really how the auto industry works?
I have actually seen new model year cars on the lot with a factory window sticker that has no prices listed. I think the dealer needs to get the correct/updated sticker before they can sell it, but this is not unheard of.
FWIW I believe that the cost of manufacturing a car only has a certain effect on the MSRP. A lot of it is driven by marketing, market comparisons, etc. They want to sell it for what the market will bear regardless of the cost of the components. I would not be at all surprised to have the prices available right before the cars start to ship to dealers.
I've gone that route a few times, the last time was October. Actually, I'll be going up to the Utica/Syracuse area next weekend to visit my sister-in-law.
As for the cross bars, they were missing at Philly and none of the reps seemed to know if they were standard or an option. I seem to recall the Legacy we saw at Philly did not have the weather band on it as well.
TX folks, here's our chance to check out the '05's:
>From: SOAMail@sun.subaru1.com > >...here is the list of vehicles that will be held at the Dallas Auto >Show, which will be held March 3 - 7, 2004. > >Forester XS Premium >Forester XT Turbo Premium >Impreza WRX Wagon >Impreza STi >Outback LL Bean Edition >Impreza Outback Sport >2005 Legacy GT Wagon >2005 Legacy 2.5I Sedan >Baja Sport >Impreza WRX Sedan >Impreza WRX Sedan Prem. >Impreza STi > >*special vehicles (2) :No description available. > >I hope that this information is helpful. If I can be of any other >assistance, please let me know. >Have a wonderful weekend. > >Kelly
Thanks for the information. I really want to go, but don't think I'll be able to make it this year. It's a 350 mile trip (one way) for me. Still time, so maybe...
Quality problems are still dogging VW vehicles and putting off customers who were attracted to VW in the late 1990s, costing VW big on warranty repairs and marketing costs to keep old customers and lure new ones. Last year, for example, VW began offering costly lease-pull-ahead deals to owners in order to keep them from defecting. In Europe, the company is offering deals like free air conditioning to move a large inventory of Golfs, and similar measures are anticipated in North America. VW stock initially rose 2.7 percent Wednesday, but then gave ground and closed at 39.33 euros ($50.49) or less than one percent in Frankfurt. Shares are down 11 percent since early January.
I saw the report of the new Legacy on the DW Auto, Motor and Sport TV program aired on PBS affiliated KCSM channel 60 in Bay area California. Thoes of you who are interested, the same program will be aired on Tuesday 7:00 P.M again. If you live elsewhere check with your PBS affiliated TV station for that particular TV program. The car looks really nice. The moon roof is huge. The guages are quites impressive.
when will the 2005 non-turbo legacy wagons hit the u.s. showrooms? i'm considering buying a 2005 legacy 35th anniversary wagon, but wonder if it's a bad investment given the 2005 design changes. any advice?
Brenda: I saw an Outback like that yesterday, leather but no moonroof. Must've been aftermarket leather.
Krisshna: I've long said that VW would have a hang over from the Piech days, he spent way too much money, fixed costs are extremely high right now. The product line improved tremendously, but now they're stuck selling high-priced products that overlap almost 100% with Audi.
Alland: thanks for the heads up, I'll check the listings for Comcast in MD.
2004s will depreciate more rapidly, but Subaru has tossed $1500 in incentives, which is hard to resist. You invest less up front, and don't forget the opportunity cost of that $1500 plus whatever price increase they have.
Tough call. I'm an enthusiast so I'd wait to get those improvements. Plus we have a 2002 Legacy and want something bigger and with more features.
Want a bargain? Get a 2004.
Want the best vehicle under $30k? Wait for the 2005.
Comments
Cheers Pat.
Craig
Okay back to the original reason for this post, a Sube Hybrid next year?! what's everyone's thoughts on it? I for one am looking forward to it. I love the utility of my Forester but at the same time I am intrigued by the Toyota Prius, if I can combined the two that would be ideal.
Mike
Seems like a long shot, though. To risk putting their first implementation of the technology on their flagship car?
I would love to see it, but I doubt it will happen by next year.
-juice
--Sal
Bob
Thanx Brian
Luch
Steve
They did show the B9SC hybrid at NAIAS...
-juice
I really want to see the clay mock-up.
Greg
-Frank P.
A problem I would not mind having.
-juice
-Frank P.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,871- 1634%255E13232,00.html
Full-size spare, yet they don't say what size tire is used. I bet the US will get donuts. I wonder which wheel/tire combos will fit in there, probably all but the Outback's, like it is now.
-juice
Maybe there are still in general too many 04s sitting unsold, and they do not want their sales team to focus on new and as yet unavailable product. But avialability is patchy for some models - there are almost no MT FXTs left in our part of the world, and as word spreads there will soon be none. Also, the new Legacy/OB will spread the appeal, and if they knew what was coming and when, they may snag some deferred deals.
So anyone know how far ahead pricing is typically released for a new model before it is avaialable to drive away? I have a deal pending on an 04 FXT, but would really like to know the final pricing, specs, warranty changes and availability on both the Forester and OB line for 05, as I could (I think) hold out to summer.
-juice
Can you guys confirm for the USDM models?
Thanks,
Dave
Bob
-juice
Check under of this site.
Go to 'Subaru Range' then click on the Legacy pic; click on 'features' then look under interior.
http://www.subaru.co.uk/index2.htm
It is even electronic.
Luch
Okay, I checked what Mutsuraboshi posted the 'estate' and 'saloon', wagon, sedan---I saw the release on the sedan, but not on the wagon? What gives?
Internet savvy buyers already know about the new models and will withhold making a buying decision anyway. For those wanting a Subaru now or want to take advantage of the great deals on the 04s, they're still going to buy.
So what's that leave us? The picky shopper who may be considering an 05 but is also looking at the G35, A4, IS300 or some other upscale performance vehicle. Armed with solid data, this shopper may very well be convinced to wait until the 05s hit the showroom floor. But since the local Subaru sales staff can only shrug their shoulders in helpless ignorance, said shopper may very well just say the heck with it and head across the street and right into the Infiniti dealer's front door!
-Frank P.
Listen I know it's tough, but did you ever think for a second that just maybe and I mean maybe SOA is still in the very final negotiations for price with Fuji. I mean they just added a additional model to the 05 with the Outback XT without leather or roof 3 weeks ago. They are still fine tuning the models and prices. Believe me I have a great source at a dealership who has never been wrong yet. Of course I know the focus is 04s and I know most would think all the pricing has to be done, but you never know for sure and let's hope Subaru is fighting to get the price just right for all of it's awesome super loyal customers and even a bunch of new converts...
TrueAWD
Seems like making leather an option on the Legacy Limited would cut costs.
I'm thinking, if you've got a little money to burn, and you don't want a Turbo, you would probably go for an Outback Limited or other more luxurious Outback variations anyway.
Having a lower cost option would produce a true value leader - like the 03SE or 04Anniversary Editions.
1) None of the exterior shots show roof crossbars. Are they now an option?
2) No more Weather band channel on the radio. Did they do away with that along with the cassette?
3) I can't tell what the buttons on the steering wheel are for. Any ideas?
Mark
1) One of the pics that Brian took at Chicago shows crossbars on an '05 LL Bean. Still may be optional though. I hope they are since I just take them off anyway. I use Yakima bars instead.
EDIT: The OB mini brochure shows cross bars in every picture.
2) Probably picture of non-US models.
EDIT: No mention of WB in mini brochure, so who knows.
3) Buttons are stereo controls for H6 models and SportShift buttons for OB XT (Turbo).
DaveM
OT- You ever road trip along 90 from Albany/Utica/Syracuse?
-Frank P.
FWIW I believe that the cost of manufacturing a car only has a certain effect on the MSRP. A lot of it is driven by marketing, market comparisons, etc. They want to sell it for what the market will bear regardless of the cost of the components. I would not be at all surprised to have the prices available right before the cars start to ship to dealers.
I've gone that route a few times, the last time was October. Actually, I'll be going up to the Utica/Syracuse area next weekend to visit my sister-in-law.
As for the cross bars, they were missing at Philly and none of the reps seemed to know if they were standard or an option. I seem to recall the Legacy we saw at Philly did not have the weather band on it as well.
Mark
>From: SOAMail@sun.subaru1.com
>
>...here is the list of vehicles that will be held at the Dallas Auto
>Show, which will be held March 3 - 7, 2004.
>
>Forester XS Premium
>Forester XT Turbo Premium
>Impreza WRX Wagon
>Impreza STi
>Outback LL Bean Edition
>Impreza Outback Sport
>2005 Legacy GT Wagon
>2005 Legacy 2.5I Sedan
>Baja Sport
>Impreza WRX Sedan
>Impreza WRX Sedan Prem.
>Impreza STi
>
>*special vehicles (2) :No description available.
>
>I hope that this information is helpful. If I can be of any other
>assistance, please let me know.
>Have a wonderful weekend.
>
>Kelly
CUSAFR
There had always been one, first the GT, then the S/E, then the 35th.
Looks like Dallas will have the same lineup from Philly. I bet both 2005 Legacys are silver.
-juice
Bob
i like the new OB better for 10k less.
I want that NAVI.........
Alland
Investment? A car is not an investment. Are you planning on reselling?
Krisshna: I've long said that VW would have a hang over from the Piech days, he spent way too much money, fixed costs are extremely high right now. The product line improved tremendously, but now they're stuck selling high-priced products that overlap almost 100% with Audi.
Alland: thanks for the heads up, I'll check the listings for Comcast in MD.
2004s will depreciate more rapidly, but Subaru has tossed $1500 in incentives, which is hard to resist. You invest less up front, and don't forget the opportunity cost of that $1500 plus whatever price increase they have.
Tough call. I'm an enthusiast so I'd wait to get those improvements. Plus we have a 2002 Legacy and want something bigger and with more features.
Want a bargain? Get a 2004.
Want the best vehicle under $30k? Wait for the 2005.
-juice