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Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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  • salbaby1972salbaby1972 Member Posts: 165
    I don't kow man, an Acura TSX Wagon compared to a Legacy GT Turbo Wagon? TSX with 200 hp v 250 hp? for about the same price...

    But Acura has many cool gadgets in the TSX, TL and new RL... espcailly that NAV.

    BTW, we love our Baja! :)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It probably is more tossable mike, but the tires on there now are only so-so.

    Any how, no regrets. I didn't want a sedan without ABS.

    -juice
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Ah tires are a non issue for me on any car. First thing I switch out is the tires, easy performance mod.

    -mike
  • subewannabesubewannabe Member Posts: 403
    Juice, I have obsessed over these numbers( we'll soon see if they turn out to be accurate), but as best I can figure, the MSRP reported for the Legacy GT wagon $26,995,is with the 5MT, and the price reported for the OBXT is also with 5MT, $27,995, $1000 more. Yet, the prices reported for the base OB 2.5i is $2000 more than the base Legacy 2.5i wagon. This makes no sense...presumably, the base Legacy would be priced as competitively as possible ????
        Likewise, the difference from a base 2.51 Legacy wagon to the base 2.5T / GT wagon is reported as $5000, yet the difference reported between the base 2.51 OB and the OBXT is only $4000???? These numbers reflect a market/pricing strategy that is clear as mud to me!
        There is another big jump for the LTD premium package, $2500 for the Legacy GT sedan, $2700 for the wagon. I would assume the $2700 figure would apply to the Outback XT, although the above-memtioned inconsistencies make me wonder. Since the only tranny choices for the LGT and the OBXT are the 5MT and SportShift 5EAT, I assume the $1200 addition for the 5EAT applies to both models .

    Thus, who knows what the difference in MSRP between the Legacy GT LTD wagon and the OBXT LTD wagon would be. The numbers reported suggest $29,695 and $30,695, respectively, with MT, $30,895/$31,895 with 5EAT. I was betting SoA would price ALL Legacy models under $30K MSRP.
       I am inclined to think the "final" numbers will not be exactly as reported. Either way, my Subaru VIP letter is on hold until the new models hit the dealers' lots.

    Mark
  • breldbreld Member Posts: 6,938
    As far as comparing a TSX to the new Legacy GT, the 200hp vs. the 250hp is only half the story - try comparing 166 lbs-ft of torque to 250!

    Nevertheless, I love driving my TSX and, in my eyes, it's a great 4-door replacement for the Prelude I used to have. But I'm confident my next car will be a Legacy or Outback. With a 1 year old son, a dog and hopefully another child someday, I'd never admit to my wife that the TSX is, indeed, a tad small, in fear of hearing the obligatory "I told you so." She has an MDX, which was my justification for having a smaller sedan for the second car, but there have been enough times when I needed to haul the dog and/or a stroller that I'd like a wagon next time around.

    So, I think I'll be signing up for that Subaru Mastercard. Nothing wrong with thinking ahead, right?

    2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2025 MB GLE450e - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman

  • salbaby1972salbaby1972 Member Posts: 165
    Make no mistake the TSX is a fine car. At least the seats fold down unlike the TL. But for our use (and many people here), we do need a wagon. I really love the NAVI in the TSX and TL. I hope SOA comes out with a simiallar one.

    I am counting down the day until we can test drive a GT Wagon.

    --Sal
  • bigelmbigelm Member Posts: 995
    image

    Both coming in AWD later this year!!!
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat- _code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=02276205
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat- _code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=02276205
  • kenokakenoka Member Posts: 218
    "That thing gotta Hemi in it?"
    "Yup, and it needs it too, at 3800 lbs."
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Nevertheless, I love driving my TSX and, in my eyes, it's a great 4-door replacement for the Prelude I used to have.

    My thoughts precisely. The TSX is a really sweet ride.

    Craig
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Interesting article.

    I'll tell you what; if the '06 Baja remains on the current (old) platform, as is hinted in this link, it will certainly die. There's no way that vehicle will stand a chance of surviving sitting on the showroom floor next to the all-new (and significantly improved) Outback for two years. If Subaru has any hopes of saving it, get it on the new Outback platform for '06!

    Bob
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Haven't heard that rumor yet. I know the 300 will have AWD but didn't hear that about the Magnum. I'd lease it, doubt I'd buy one. It's still an american car deep down.

    -mike
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    to a car survey late last year, the Magnum was there in RWD form only. But, the questions (obviously Dodge was behind the survey) listed options including AWD and asked for expected pricing compared to other vehicles.

    -Brian
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    are scheduled for a fall '04 intro.

    Bob
  • blaneblane Member Posts: 2,017
    Man those are gross, ugly, overweight, overdone, gas guzzlers. Daimler should stick to Benz.
  • goneskiiangoneskiian Member Posts: 381
    Just looking at the specs and pictures I'd have to agree with you. After reading the most recent C/D review of the 300C I was a bit intrigued. The actually liked it! It's still quite heavy and a Hemi is still a gas guzzler even if it does shut half off when you don't need all 8 cylinders. That and like kenoka said, those vehicles are gonna need those Hemi's just to get out of their own way! LOL ;-)

    -Ian
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    No offense but the STi at 3200lbs is no lightweight, and it's only got a 4 cylinder 2.5L motor. Those are only 600lbs heavier with some nice muscle behind them. Real-world STi figures show them at pretty bad milage....

    -mike
  • jimmyp1atworkjimmyp1atwork Member Posts: 42
    I saw a truckload of 300c's and one on the road yesterday here in Houston. Very ugly. I kinda like the Magnum though.

    Jim
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    this 300C/Magnum discussion over to the Cafe. Thanks. :)

    Bob
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    My OB H4 2001 has 30k miles on it. Now it seems like it revs more freely than before.

    is there a truth to it or is it an illusion ?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    This whole Baja fiasco should become a textbook case study for MBA candidates, just like the SVX was a decade earlier...

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They mention they might de-clad it, drop the price by a grand, and even address the heavy tail gate.

    But that alone won't increase sales. It might stop the sales skid. 9k per year just isn't volume worth doing, it was projected at 20k per year.

    Put it on the new chassis and address all those things, plus add a few clever features, and it might hit that original 20k sales target.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    doesn't sour on the idea of a Subie pickup for the future because of this debacle. There's a huge market out there for pickups, if the product is right.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I can't believe how many people buy Avalanches and Sport Tracs.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    to see how Honda does with their new pickup. It's sized right, which the Baja wasn't. As to styling and features of the Honda truck concept, so far I'm not impressed.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.need-desire.com/main.html
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I think the Legacy is priced right.

    Basically it's $21k for the 2.5i, a great value, add $1000 for a wagon, add $1000 for automatic, add $3400-3600 for the Limited package.

    Only the LTD package is overpriced.

    GT is similar, $26k for starters is a good value IMO. Add $1000 for a wagon, $1200 for auto, and about $2500-2600 for the LTD package.

    Limiteds creep up over $30k only for a fully loaded auto wagon. The LTD package costs about a grand less on the GT vs. the 2.5i.

    I think they got it right. Street prices for these will be very competitive.

    Is it a big jump from the 2.5i, that's $5 grand for the turbo. Performance ain't cheap! I'd have trouble convincing my wife it'd be worth $5000 extra.

    -juice
  • p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    If the Baja was targeted at the surfer crowd then I can see why it's not selling but personally, I don't see why Subaru shouldn't go after the weekend gardener market. They've certainly got more disposable cash. And I still maintain that the Baja is the right size for most people. All those Avalanche buyers really don't need anything nearly that big but buy them just for the image. Also, IMHO the ability to carry a 4x8 sheet of plywood is way over-rated since the number of owners that do is roughly comparable to the percent that goes off-road in their SUVs. If all you need is something to occasionally carry muddy mountain bikes; plants, potting soil and mulch; or wet camping gear; and the rest of the time you want the comfort and drivability of a car then it seems to me that the Baja fits the bill nicely. Of course what makes sense and the perceptions of what’s trendy are frequently diametrically opposed...

    -Frank P.
  • jimmyp1atworkjimmyp1atwork Member Posts: 42
    What would your guesses be on this....

    "Street prices for these will be very competitive."

    Specifically the GT variants.

    I plan on using Fitzmall's (or whatever it's called) prices as a bargaining chip price-wise on my local dealer(s) when the time comes. (about a year)

    Jim
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Basically goes like this:

    24k for a base wagon, add $1k for auto, $3k for LTD.

    That's a big increase. I've seen base 2004 models dip under $20k, even with automatic! That would list for $25.5k with freight, so street prices will be maybe $4 grand higher!

    LTD package is overpriced. I'd get an aftermarket moonroof for $900 and call it good.

    OB XT turbo starts at 28k, that ain't cheap. The turbo basically costs $4 grand. Another $2700 for the LTD package.

    This is a risky strategy. Price points are noticeably higher, at least before rebates. Maybe they built in incentives? That'll hurt resale. I wouldn't want to buy a 2005 right away only to find a $1250 incentive at the end of MY2005. Long-term it may not matter much.

    I think Legacy will sell stronger than Outback. The price difference is bigger and there isn't enough substance, IMHO, to justify the higher prices, now that the even the base Leg has heated seats and SAC.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    BTW, that difference is about $2-3k, from Legacy to Outback. For some springs and two-tone paint? It doesn't have the AWP to differentiate from the base Legacy like it used to.

    The Legacy will be the bargain of the bunch.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    How many bare-bone non-Limited 5-speed manual GTs to you expect to see on dealers lots? Probably not too many, judging by what SOA has done in the past. I think most cars on lots will be loaded Limiteds, and that the cloth/5-speed manual will be hard to find.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That's the only sedan in the Outback range from what I'm reading. $31k seems high for the cheapest H6.

    $32.2k for the Bean. Of course you have to add freight to all these prices, but then negotiate down to near invoice. That'll still put a Bean at over $30k, compared to $26k today that's a HUGE increase. It's like they're making room for the XT LTD wagon, which is $300 cheaper.

    VDC is almost $34 grand. Ouch. They'll sell about 3 of these per month, people will flock to the XT.

    They have to re-think the H6 strategy. It's not gonna sell at all. They might end up dropping that engine at those prices, or it'll carry bigger rebates than the other models.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    You gotta compare MSRPs, not street prices. The MSRP on the '04 Bean is not $26K. The MSRP over at Fitz is $30,948 for a LL Bean. So considering the upgrades on the new model, I don't think the '05 price is that outrageous.

    Bob
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    outback pricing is there as well.
  • rayccraycc Member Posts: 30
    Well the outback also have 8-way power driver seat with 4-stage heating while the base legacy don't

    Ray
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    outbacks are TOOOOOOOOOOOOO expensive
    I'll have to wait for prices to fall & save up on my mastercard
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    6k diff between base legacy & GT
  • lucien2lucien2 Member Posts: 2,984
    *PHEW* I could not afford a $27k turbo wagon. So no buyers remorse here. Sure is purty though!
  • kenokakenoka Member Posts: 218
    In about a year, there will be a red GT Limited wagon with taupe interior with my name on it. It will be mine; oh yes, it will be mine.
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    So for you guys in the know:

    Legacy Wagon 2.5i = $21,995
    Legacy Wagon 2.5 LTD = $25,645.

    Is power/heated driver seat, leather, and 2 zone auto climate all I get for an additional $3,650??!!
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    pricing is absolutely goofy. they are going to fail ! any takers ?
    guess what sub doesn;t need a separate luxury/premium brand, becos they are already there.....at least in price !
  • luck11luck11 Member Posts: 425
    Subaru may be pricing themselves outside the range of a great majority of their existing customers....including me!! I not looking forward to seeing the Canadian pricing. I will be seriously considering other options for a new vehicle when I trade my 00 OB at the end of this year.
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    are we too harsh on soa ?

    Just checked passat,
    cheapest 4motion is 25k & loaded is 32k
    Interestingly, sedan & wagon are priced the same.
  • rob_mrob_m Member Posts: 820
    I was expecting $28,500 for a GT LTD. Guess I will have to wait and see Invoice vs MSRP and options.
  • pon1pon1 Member Posts: 196
    Canada has done something different. We still dont have prices, but the OB wagon lineup will be as follows in price order.

    2.5i Base (cloth)
    2.5i LTD
    3.0R base (cloth)
    XT LTD (there will be no base XT in Canada for 2005)
    3.0R VDC (essentially the 3.0R LTD)

    The "affordable" performance OB will be the 3.0R. They will sell a lot of these. Price sensitive buyers will cross shop the 3.0R with the base Legacy GT.

    Why not do likewise in the US, offer a base H6 at the same price point as the base XT. Agree they are wasting the potential of the H6 by pricing it just at the very top.

    Our dealers are already warning that there will be shortages of turbo and h6 models and we should reserve specific colors, but then they would say that...

    JP
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    Is power/heated driver seat, leather, and 2 zone auto climate all I get for an additional $3,650??!!

    You get a huge 2 piece moonroof also. Probably a different stereo too (6 CD changer?).
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    Looking at Legacy GT LTD wagon vs OB XT LTD wagon there is a $1000 difference more for the OB. For that $1000 I would probably look at the Legacy. Still, $30895 for the LTD wagon with sortshift is a quite a bit, although worth it with everythign you get. I'm glad I have to wait for that IMBA discount -hopefully street prices will be lower in 6 months.

    Mark
  • nowakj66nowakj66 Member Posts: 709
    These subies will command MSRP for a while, but not forever. A local dealer got OVER MSRP for the first LL Bean wagon or two. This experience was repeated, even more so, with the WRX.

    Perpsective - Look where the prices for those two vehicles are now.

    Dealers live for this happy time. Just remember, you CAN wait. You do not have to be the one to make their day.

    Sometimes the MSRP happiness goes on a long time, like with the Acura MDX or Honda Oddysee. But eventually it comes into line.
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