So Subie has a vehicle named the Lancaster and the new vehicle will be the Halifax. Strange enough that they are both named after cities in England, but it gets more weird that they were both the names of British bombers in WWII.
Now we have something else to speculate about for the next 5 years! ;-)
Halifax is great but we'll see it in January, then what? Sedan, ah.
Since the OB is at about 105" wheelbase, this car should be around 112" or so. Plus 2" wider track, front and rear. Make it noticeably bigger, to serve a different customer than the Legacy.
Maxima is only slightly bigger than Altima and I think that's given Nissan some problems.
I was skimming quickly earlier or I wouldn't posted then. Anyway now that I have more time-- my $0.02
The large sedan market is pretty brutal. I'm not sure if a turbo six cylinder will have the punch to compete, and even if it did (see A6 2.7 biturbo) it could be the consumers want a V8 just on principle.
So, should Subaru develop a flat 8? I don't think that a good use of precious R&D money... I think if a large sedan were to be done, it would be a GM v8 with Subaru AWD.
Maybe down the road. Subaru, as we all know is very cautious. My bet is they would go after the the MB E-320 market first, then if that pans out, go after the E-500 with either a turbo H-6 or H-8 (but not a GM-sourced V engine of any sort). The Northstar is a very good engine, but I just don't see Subaru ever using a "V-type" engine, ever.
Bob: Porsche probably said the same thing but they have a V8 now.
Who would it compete with? Not necessarily an E-class. It might battle with the Lexus ES, Toyota Avalon, Nissan Maxima, and the Acura TL. Those are all big-ish imports. Throw in the G35, Mitsu Diamante, and you have a whole class of competitors.
I don't see it above the Halifax in terms of price, I just don't think it'll be that big and luxurious. Volume will be small if it's $40 grand or more, look at the Passat W8, it seems to have everything (8 cyl, quality interior, AWD) yet it failed miserably.
Bob: Porsche probably said the same thing but they have a V8 now.
True, but I think Subaru is even more committed to the boxer format than Porsche is. They really hammer it home in all of their advertising. Porsche doesn't do that; they may "mention" boxer in their marketing, but Subaru "screams" boxer in their marketing.
For Subaru to offer an engine other than a boxer in their premier sedan would be akin to Harley Davidson to offer a Japanese-like inline four in their premier bike. I think we'll see Hell freeze over first.
Does anyone know details about the subaru Sambar? It looks like it comes in van and flatbed truck versions. Does it have AWD or a boxer engine? Diesel?
Well it's just an idea, but they could use a lightened version of the sambar chassis and make a larger baja right now if they so desired. Drop a boxer in it and AWD of course. Maybe a diesel to boot?!
Well, as many of you know, I'm a sucker for trucks, and would love to see Subaru sell a larger Sambar-like vehicle here. I'm talking about a commercial-grade truck like the Sambar (and Isuzu Class III trucks), but as a Class I & Class II truck.
Here's the thing: Don't sell it through Subaru car dealers. Rather sell it through GMC/Isuzu commercial truck dealers. I bet there would be a market for it, as Isuzu doesn't offer anything in the Class I & Class II GVW ranges. We know Subaru is working on a boxer diesel. This would be a perfect application for it.
yeah it could compete with, say, the dodge sprinter in terms of payload, but more manuverable and easy to park in the city. It could serve a lot of downtown small businesses well.
Heck, Make a 7-8 passenger version of it with a boxer diesel and I'd buy it as my family cruiser & tow vehicle. Maybe it's in my blood...:) My dad bought a german made sprinter just for that purpose!
I think we might see trucks like the sambar if they repeal the chicken tax completely.
In Brazil Daihatsu sells a lot of those tiny little trucks, and they are *CHEAP*, half the cost of a pickup with the same payload. They often use tiny diesel engines.
We're talking small, though, smaller platform than the Baja for sure.
Jon [in CT] over at nabisco has found another new name trademarked by SOA. The quasy discussion over there centers on is this a "vehicle" name, or perhaps some sort of "system" name (like VDC, etc.), and perhaps SOA should enlist Elmer Fudd as the spokesperson?
Comments
-juice
But if a manufacturer can meets the needs of and make a profit from a demographic - more power to it.
OK time to change subjects. Any news on the Halifax?
At the chat last night, who changed their name to "Halifax"?
-juice
Bob <with a devilish grin>
-juice
-juice
OB turbo really looks great !!!!!!
Jim
Halifax to compete with the X5? Nooooo! I'll be stuck in a minivan.
-juice
-juice
At least it has now been "officially" confirmed that there will be a larger sedan forthcoming. It's no longer just a rumor.
Bob
Halifax is great but we'll see it in January, then what? Sedan, ah.
Since the OB is at about 105" wheelbase, this car should be around 112" or so. Plus 2" wider track, front and rear. Make it noticeably bigger, to serve a different customer than the Legacy.
Maxima is only slightly bigger than Altima and I think that's given Nissan some problems.
-juice
The Subaru Big-fat-back-seat?
Could be BFBS6 if they want alphanumeric.
-juice
Bob
~c
Ken
They could only call it the Paisano if it had *at least* 500 lb-ft of torque from a good ol' diesel. ;-)
-juice
Bob
here 'tis:
http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv?port_code=autoweek&cat- _code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=09095657
~c
Bob
The large sedan market is pretty brutal. I'm not sure if a turbo six cylinder will have the punch to compete, and even if it did (see A6 2.7 biturbo) it could be the consumers want a V8 just on principle.
So, should Subaru develop a flat 8? I don't think that a good use of precious R&D money... I think if a large sedan were to be done, it would be a GM v8 with Subaru AWD.
~Colin
Bob
The 2005 Acura RL is coming out with a 300hp V6/SH-AWD drivetrain. Maybe the new subie may take on the TLs first.
H6 4.0turbo can work.
I'm definitely gain and if SOA/FHI wants help developing or testing it I'm available during the days!
I'm very excited! It doesn't have to have 500lbs of torque, that's fine for truck. Just needs to be larger and fit at least 3-4 bodies in the trunk!
-mike
Who would it compete with? Not necessarily an E-class. It might battle with the Lexus ES, Toyota Avalon, Nissan Maxima, and the Acura TL. Those are all big-ish imports. Throw in the G35, Mitsu Diamante, and you have a whole class of competitors.
I don't see it above the Halifax in terms of price, I just don't think it'll be that big and luxurious. Volume will be small if it's $40 grand or more, look at the Passat W8, it seems to have everything (8 cyl, quality interior, AWD) yet it failed miserably.
-juice
True, but I think Subaru is even more committed to the boxer format than Porsche is. They really hammer it home in all of their advertising. Porsche doesn't do that; they may "mention" boxer in their marketing, but Subaru "screams" boxer in their marketing.
For Subaru to offer an engine other than a boxer in their premier sedan would be akin to Harley Davidson to offer a Japanese-like inline four in their premier bike. I think we'll see Hell freeze over first.
Bob
-juice
http://www.subaru.co.jp/forester/alpha/interior/index.html
Bob
Thanks,
Eric
Bob
http://www.subaru.co.jp/sambar/truck/05/04.html
Bob
Eric
Here's the thing: Don't sell it through Subaru car dealers. Rather sell it through GMC/Isuzu commercial truck dealers. I bet there would be a market for it, as Isuzu doesn't offer anything in the Class I & Class II GVW ranges. We know Subaru is working on a boxer diesel. This would be a perfect application for it.
Bob
Heck, Make a 7-8 passenger version of it with a boxer diesel and I'd buy it as my family cruiser & tow vehicle. Maybe it's in my blood...:) My dad bought a german made sprinter just for that purpose!
Eric
Bob
In Brazil Daihatsu sells a lot of those tiny little trucks, and they are *CHEAP*, half the cost of a pickup with the same payload. They often use tiny diesel engines.
We're talking small, though, smaller platform than the Baja for sure.
Anyone want to bet against Nav for 2006?
-juice
-juice
-mike
BTW, Thanks to you also Bob.
--Sal
Sidebar: You think FHI will give Saab/GM anymore platforms if WRX/9-2x sells REALLY well?
Oh yeah, we'll see more, but I bet Saab gets in the cycle much earlier to differentiate it more. Compare a 9-3 to a Malibu and you'll see what I mean.
mike: I'd have to agree with your pricing. And if the wife keeps pushing for a sedan that might be her next car, but I'm talking 4 years from now.
-juice
Jon [in CT] over at nabisco has found another new name trademarked by SOA. The quasy discussion over there centers on is this a "vehicle" name, or perhaps some sort of "system" name (like VDC, etc.), and perhaps SOA should enlist Elmer Fudd as the spokesperson?
Bob
Now I can see why they're considering alphanumeric names. They've run out of good ideas.
-juice
Oh Ken, where are you???
Bob
-juice
They both look great! I want both...
--Sal