Remember mileage doesn't depend only upon the engine. The transmission has a lot to do with it. If a tranny is geared and programmed conservatively, MPG increases. Toyotas are very conservative (having owned a few). You know who does surprisingly well? GM. They get some great mileage on some of their cars. Don't move too well though. ;-) And that's the trade off.
I think the XT could make great use of a 6th gear. Leave everything else the same, but put a 6th gear that revs about 500 RPM less at highway cruise.
Currently, at 75 Mph, the engine revs at about 3200 RPM, which I believe is the highest of any car I've ever owned. yet this has the most powerful and torquy engine I've ever owned. The engine pulls strongly from 200 RPM in 5th, so I see no problem with dropping down to 2500-2700 in 6th. And no it wouldn't mean more shifting, this would only be used on highways.
I was riding in my friend's M3 last week, he never shifts to 6 unless he's doing 90Mph+. At 75 he only revs about 2300 RPM in 5th!
AWD Matrix has 123hp. Not comparable to the 165hp Impreza, not even close!.
Are you comparing the 2.4l Highlander with AWD or without? With AWD bet the Subie is more fuel efficient, 22/28 to 21/25. Big, big difference.
If you allow FWD station wagons then go look at a Ford Focus wagon with the PZEV 2.3l, mileage is in the 30s.
With AWD, the Toy is heavier but the Subie is more powerful and wins by a wide margin when you look at highway miles.
I don't think boxers are inherently inefficient, Subaru just has limited R&D funds and can't do everything at once, so we end up waiting for AVCS.
I just feel like you're seeing the glass half empty. If fuel economy was such a large concern to begin with, you should probably have gotten a Legacy 2.5i wagon (23/30).
Then you'd be talking about how 4 cylinder Highlanders with AWD are such gas guzzlers at a mere 21/25 mpg.
20% less fuel and it's probably slightly quicker. The HL only gives you a bit more space. So buy a roof top carrier with the piles of money you save on gas by not getting the guzzling Toyota.
Go look at the Edmunds chart I posted. I was comparing the 2.4i with the Highlander AWD. So if you think the Toyota is a guzzler, then you what are you saying about the 2.5i?
With a similar engine size and power, the Highlander is much larger, taller, roomier and less aerodynamic, yet it pulls better gas mileage.
When did I say gas mileage was a major concern of mine? I was just discussing the fact that Subarus are not very fuel efficient, mainly because of their less advanced technology, and that this is hurting their sales.
People are always bringing AWD as the cause for the poor gas mileage. It certainly has an impact, but it's not the whole story. You just admitted that Subaru has less sophisticated engine technology. That is really all I'm pointing at. They still have work to do on that front. Also, a lot of Subie drivers are not getting anywhere near their EPA ratings.
I'm always amused by all the excuses you guys come up with to defend Subaru. Why not be honest about it and encourage Subaru to get better?
The guzzler thing was a joke (sorry if that was not obvious). All I'm saying is the 2.4l Highlander is not all that efficient once you add AWD to it.
I don't understand your question, though, the 2.5i is more efficient, as it should be. And that's despite having a larger displacement engine that also accelerates quicker. Sounds like a fair trade-off to me.
Let's look at it objectively, since you think I'm not being objective. Let's take the average of the two EPA numbers, that puts the HL at 23 mpg and the Outback at 25 mpg. So the Outback is +2 mpg or about 9% more fuel efficient.
Highlander's curb weight is about 11% heavier, seems like a fair trade off to me.
You can't compare aerodynamics because the Subaru comes with a roof rack and cross bars standard, that may be why is gets 28 mpg highway instead of 30 mpg highway for the Legacy, sans cross bars (like the Highlander).
It sure sounds like a big concern to you only because you keep bringing up the same topic. Note that it's a concern to me also, so perhaps I'm applying selective listening and that's all I keep hearing from your posts.
I do better than the EPA figures of 21/27 on my Subie, and average 25.1, I even chart it! Hence I'm not complaining, and yes even defending Subaru.
If you compare the Forester and RAV4 head-to-head, the Forester is more fuel efficient, and they are more similar if you think about it.
The real economy champ among AWD vehicles is the Legacy wagon, you just can't beat 23/30 with the full package it offers, not even with a FWD Highlander or even RAV4, for that matter.
Perhaps the engines aren't the most high tech in the world (I'd like to see AVCS also), but they compensate with a longitudinal layout and efficient AWD systems.
The Honda CR-V has a 2.4l engine, same size as the Highlander, and similar room except cargo, and it's also tall, yet 0-60 is quicker than the V6 Highlander.
What does that tell you?
Gearing is everything.
If not you'd expect the 4 cylinder Highlander to perform similarly, and the V6 to blow it away. But not so.
Toyota uses tall gearing to get good mileage.
Honda uses short gearing so their 4 cylinder accelerates quicker than Toyota's V6.
I'm not saying which is better, that's up to the buyer, but Toyota isn't getting that relatively good mileage for nothing, you sacrifice acceleration.
Good for you, but I'm not sure a shorter gearing would gain you all that much, you would just waste more time shifting. First gear is already border line short.
I happen to think there is no good reason to waste precious fuel while cruising at highway speed, and to have higher engine noise and wear to boot. I love 1-5th gear just the way they are, but I'd like an extra taller gear.
Lowering cruising RPM would cost nothing and gain much.
<i/>I'm always amused by all the excuses you guys come up with to defend Subaru. Why not be honest about it and encourage Subaru to get better? </>
Sly, even huge companies like GM and Daimler-Chrysler can't make perfect cars, how do you expect a tiny company like FHI to? Especially for how inexpensive these Subies are. Could they be better? Sure, but at what cost? Is Subaru getting better? Definitely! This car is leaps and bounds better than my '99 Legacy. And I'm sure the cars will continue to improve.
You comment above is an overgeneralization and quite judgmental. It implies we are either being dishonest or just stupid, neither of which is the case. I hope that was not your intent but merely overenthusiasm! Or maybe it's just the way you Canadians talk, eh? ;-)
BTW, I don't think it would take a whole lot to build a sub-5 sec GT. A little more power, especially down low, bigger and lighter tires, better gearing, and a little less weight is all it'd take. I'm tempted myself to make the mods to my car- but I think I should've got the base GT if I really wanted to build a performer. ;-)
Sorry I'm off topic. Uh, I'd like a Legacy GT STi. ;-)
Tom, sorry if I offended, that was not my intention and yes,we do have a strong tendency to speak our mind in Quebec. That's something I have to be careful with, but what can I say, I was programmed like that.
Having said that, there are many (not all by any means) Subie fans that act like anything not Subaru is no good. One of my neighbors here is one of them! As I was shopping for cars, I often had to remindhim I was buying more than an AWD system.
Subaru's may be cheap in the USA, but they are not here in Canada. At the current exchange rate, if you take a $31K OBXT, it should cost $37K here in Canada. Right now it lists for $43K, which puts it at the same price as an Infinity G35x or Acura TL. Now we could debate the virtues of each of these cars to death, but fact remains, those two cars offer a lot of refinement and luxury for the money.
So while I love the car, for the money I paid I think Subaru should pay a bit more attention to details. No I don't expect them to make a perfect car, but I still think it is appropriate to criticize them and hope they will improve by the time I buy my next Subaru. There are a lot of things they could improve simply by paying attention to details, not necessarily by spending more money!
Sly, while we're all fans of Subaru (why else would we live here?), we are also quite realistic, I think—and can be quite critical as need be. Want proof? Check out the Baja thread, or the Suggestions for Subaru thread, or some of the other threads here.
Well, if the Subaru is up there with Infiniti and Acura, then I can understand why Sly is upset. Our view of Subaru is not of price but of performance and value. Seems like our Canadian neighbors are on the other side of the border (no pun intended, maybe?) ;-)
I think the Impreza RS is a great deal for the money though. You get AWD, power windows and door locks, A/C, Cruise, and 16" alloy wheels for the price of a bare-bones Matrix.
Sly, maybe you guys get better steel in your OBs. ;-)
Well, pay more, expect more. (But I chose the GT ltd over the TL anyway!)
I think your point is well taken, we'd all like Subaru to make better cars. Just don't point fingers at us! Wouldn't want to start the American-Canadian war! ;-)
Let's face it, Subaru's entire R&D budget is about what Toyota spends on potato chips for their office holiday party.
)
But seriously, this is why they needed GM's buying leverage and even some engineering. Toyota can spread the cost per car over millions of cars, while Subaru has to spread those costs over just 200k cars. So the R&D overhead per vehicle is many, many times more for Subaru.
Now, stepping back a bit, I fail to understand why engines in Japan have AVCS yet we have to wait for it. It may have to do with the cost of certifying different engines.
But then why does the Legacy GT get a 5 speed auto, and the Baja and Forester turbos only a 4 speed? And why does the H6 6 speed make it to Japan and even tiny/obscure markets before it makes it here to the US? The country where 6 cylinders matters most?
That, I don't get.
Prices are killer in Canada, it really does put Subaru up against premium competitors.
Ah, NAIAS. Has it already been a year? Last year, my brother and I flew out to Detroit. My objective was to catch a first hand glimpse of a Legacy GT wagon.
Actually, I did get to look at one closely after pestering the booth staff enough. I was miffed at how they were so inflexible about it. I could understand if there was a huge crowd around it, but we were the first ones there and the booth was empty.
At first glance, it appears to be a misstep on Subaru's part, as it sounds like they got a lot of negative feedback, and decided to at the last minute change course. Now I'm not so sure...
The more I think about it I bet this was a deliberate and calculated part of of the early "rollout" momentum that Subaru had planned. Think about it: "B9X." When you read that, you really focus on the "alphanumeric" aspect, which is what they were trying for. If they had said from the beginning "B9 Tribeca," most likely the "B9" aspect would be forgotten as the word "Tribeca" has been so widely distributed on the Net and in print. The vehicle would only be known as the "Tribeca," and the B9 aspect would get lost, and worse—probably forgotten altogether.
I mention this because I bet future existing model lines get a "B#" too. So therefore it is vitally important from a marketing and branding aspect, that the "B" aspect not be lost at the launch of this new vehicle. Hence tease (and mislead) the public with the original "B9X" name.
B#s
"B#s" are good from a marketing standpoint. They help organize and group Subaru's somewhat diverse model lineup. They can also be used to strengthen model relationships, or to distance relationships as marketing goals dictate. For example:
Subaru may want to strengthen the rugged outdoorsy images of both the Outback and Baja; perhaps group them closer together, from an image standpoint. So they may come up with a "B7 Outback" and a B7 Baja."
On the other hand, they may want to distance the Outback from the legacy. So if the Outback is called a "B7 Outback," the Legacy may be called a "B6 Legacy."
The "B#" helps move those vehicles closer together, or further apart, depending on how Subaru wants to position those models. It's a very good and effective marketing tool, I think.
Another example:
The Impreza line may get a "B5" prefix. So the cars would be: "B5 Impreza RS," (WRX, etc.). Now Subaru may want to further distinguish the very special STi by calling it the "B5 STi," and drop the "Impreza" name altogether from the marketing standpoint. It would still be linked to the Impreza by simply having the "B5" prefix. BMW does something very similar with their 3/5 series and the "M " cars.
This could be interesting, for sure, as to how Subaru markets their future cars.
that's pretty cool and surprising. out of all the criticism, I think the part that stung the most was the observations that the B9-X sounded a lot like a Saab model. a 9-7X already exists, as does the wrx wagon (notice the no "based" hehe) 9-2X.
although Tribeca still sucks. should be the B9 Surveyor!
when i shopped for a 280zx way back when, people just called it a 'z'. when i got my mr2 people called it 'mister 2'. when i owned my ford windstar we referred to it as 'death star' as it was always in the shop.
so sir would you like your tribeca benign?
will the tribeca turbo be named the tribeca exciting? if the tribeca bombs will it be renamed the b17?
will the forester be renamed to the B4 Deforestation?
will the outback be renamed to the BKind2 Outback?
will the legacy be renamed to the B2B Legacy?
will the sonic yellow wrx sti be renamed to the BSting?
will the subaru incentives be called Bestbuys?
will subaru be renamed to Bubba-ru??
will owner manuals be referred to as Bibles?
will sunroofs now be referred to as Baywindows?
will drivers be referred to as Blokes?
will they try to by bmw so they can use more B words?
will all reviews of their cars be referred to as Blogs?
Sounds like something that will only sell in the "blue states." Sorry, couldn't resist.
But seriously, it makes me think of those Nissan Murano ads where they go antiquing or haul the kayaks to PacBell Park so they can paddle in McCovey Cove. A little too urbane for the traditional Subie niche...but then who am I to wonder?
Hey Loosh -- how did the body repair come out on your XT when you got hit a few months back?? I might need to get some work done and am wondering how your car came out.
Comments
But why does the 2.5i consume as much as the Highlander 4Cyl? Same size engine, much larger car.
Sly
tom
Currently, at 75 Mph, the engine revs at about 3200 RPM, which I believe is the highest of any car I've ever owned. yet this has the most powerful and torquy engine I've ever owned. The engine pulls strongly from 200 RPM in 5th, so I see no problem with dropping down to 2500-2700 in 6th. And no it wouldn't mean more shifting, this would only be used on highways.
I was riding in my friend's M3 last week, he never shifts to 6 unless he's doing 90Mph+. At 75 he only revs about 2300 RPM in 5th!
Sly
Are you comparing the 2.4l Highlander with AWD or without? With AWD bet the Subie is more fuel efficient, 22/28 to 21/25. Big, big difference.
If you allow FWD station wagons then go look at a Ford Focus wagon with the PZEV 2.3l, mileage is in the 30s.
With AWD, the Toy is heavier but the Subie is more powerful and wins by a wide margin when you look at highway miles.
I don't think boxers are inherently inefficient, Subaru just has limited R&D funds and can't do everything at once, so we end up waiting for AVCS.
I just feel like you're seeing the glass half empty. If fuel economy was such a large concern to begin with, you should probably have gotten a Legacy 2.5i wagon (23/30).
Then you'd be talking about how 4 cylinder Highlanders with AWD are such gas guzzlers at a mere 21/25 mpg.
20% less fuel and it's probably slightly quicker. The HL only gives you a bit more space. So buy a roof top carrier with the piles of money you save on gas by not getting the guzzling Toyota.
-juice
With a similar engine size and power, the Highlander is much larger, taller, roomier and less aerodynamic, yet it pulls better gas mileage.
When did I say gas mileage was a major concern of mine? I was just discussing the fact that Subarus are not very fuel efficient, mainly because of their less advanced technology, and that this is hurting their sales.
People are always bringing AWD as the cause for the poor gas mileage. It certainly has an impact, but it's not the whole story. You just admitted that Subaru has less sophisticated engine technology. That is really all I'm pointing at. They still have work to do on that front. Also, a lot of Subie drivers are not getting anywhere near their EPA ratings.
I'm always amused by all the excuses you guys come up with to defend Subaru. Why not be honest about it and encourage Subaru to get better?
Sly
I don't understand your question, though, the 2.5i is more efficient, as it should be. And that's despite having a larger displacement engine that also accelerates quicker. Sounds like a fair trade-off to me.
Let's look at it objectively, since you think I'm not being objective. Let's take the average of the two EPA numbers, that puts the HL at 23 mpg and the Outback at 25 mpg. So the Outback is +2 mpg or about 9% more fuel efficient.
Highlander's curb weight is about 11% heavier, seems like a fair trade off to me.
You can't compare aerodynamics because the Subaru comes with a roof rack and cross bars standard, that may be why is gets 28 mpg highway instead of 30 mpg highway for the Legacy, sans cross bars (like the Highlander).
It sure sounds like a big concern to you only because you keep bringing up the same topic. Note that it's a concern to me also, so perhaps I'm applying selective listening and that's all I keep hearing from your posts.
I do better than the EPA figures of 21/27 on my Subie, and average 25.1, I even chart it! Hence I'm not complaining, and yes even defending Subaru.
If you compare the Forester and RAV4 head-to-head, the Forester is more fuel efficient, and they are more similar if you think about it.
The real economy champ among AWD vehicles is the Legacy wagon, you just can't beat 23/30 with the full package it offers, not even with a FWD Highlander or even RAV4, for that matter.
Perhaps the engines aren't the most high tech in the world (I'd like to see AVCS also), but they compensate with a longitudinal layout and efficient AWD systems.
-juice
What does that tell you?
Gearing is everything.
If not you'd expect the 4 cylinder Highlander to perform similarly, and the V6 to blow it away. But not so.
Toyota uses tall gearing to get good mileage.
Honda uses short gearing so their 4 cylinder accelerates quicker than Toyota's V6.
I'm not saying which is better, that's up to the buyer, but Toyota isn't getting that relatively good mileage for nothing, you sacrifice acceleration.
-juice
My OBXT revs way too fast for highway cruising.
Anyway, I guess we should get back on topic...
Sly
My Forester is geared OK, but I don't often go 80 mph plus. If I did I'd probably want a taller 6th gear also.
-juice
I would like a sub-5 sec 0-60 time!
So my future model would be a LGT with a 6 speed geared this way. Fuel economy? Buy a 2.5i.
Or a toyota. And be bored.
I think the fun I have in my car is easily worth the $300 a year in gas extra over a Camry.
tom
I happen to think there is no good reason to waste precious fuel while cruising at highway speed, and to have higher engine noise and wear to boot. I love 1-5th gear just the way they are, but I'd like an extra taller gear.
Lowering cruising RPM would cost nothing and gain much.
Sly
Sly, even huge companies like GM and Daimler-Chrysler can't make perfect cars, how do you expect a tiny company like FHI to? Especially for how inexpensive these Subies are. Could they be better? Sure, but at what cost? Is Subaru getting better? Definitely! This car is leaps and bounds better than my '99 Legacy. And I'm sure the cars will continue to improve.
You comment above is an overgeneralization and quite judgmental. It implies we are either being dishonest or just stupid, neither of which is the case. I hope that was not your intent but merely overenthusiasm! Or maybe it's just the way you Canadians talk, eh? ;-)
BTW, I don't think it would take a whole lot to build a sub-5 sec GT. A little more power, especially down low, bigger and lighter tires, better gearing, and a little less weight is all it'd take. I'm tempted myself to make the mods to my car- but I think I should've got the base GT if I really wanted to build a performer. ;-)
Sorry I'm off topic. Uh, I'd like a Legacy GT STi. ;-)
tom
Having said that, there are many (not all by any means) Subie fans that act like anything not Subaru is no good. One of my neighbors here is one of them! As I was shopping for cars, I often had to remindhim I was buying more than an AWD system.
Subaru's may be cheap in the USA, but they are not here in Canada. At the current exchange rate, if you take a $31K OBXT, it should cost $37K here in Canada. Right now it lists for $43K, which puts it at the same price as an Infinity G35x or Acura TL. Now we could debate the virtues of each of these cars to death, but fact remains, those two cars offer a lot of refinement and luxury for the money.
So while I love the car, for the money I paid I think Subaru should pay a bit more attention to details. No I don't expect them to make a perfect car, but I still think it is appropriate to criticize them and hope they will improve by the time I buy my next Subaru. There are a lot of things they could improve simply by paying attention to details, not necessarily by spending more money!
Sly
Bob
I think the Impreza RS is a great deal for the money though. You get AWD, power windows and door locks, A/C, Cruise, and 16" alloy wheels for the price of a bare-bones Matrix.
Sly
Well, pay more, expect more. (But I chose the GT ltd over the TL anyway!)
I think your point is well taken, we'd all like Subaru to make better cars. Just don't point fingers at us! Wouldn't want to start the American-Canadian war! ;-)
tom
Our OBs are made in Indiana just like yours, end I wouldn't be suprised if the steel came from Canada!
Sly
But seriously, this is why they needed GM's buying leverage and even some engineering. Toyota can spread the cost per car over millions of cars, while Subaru has to spread those costs over just 200k cars. So the R&D overhead per vehicle is many, many times more for Subaru.
Now, stepping back a bit, I fail to understand why engines in Japan have AVCS yet we have to wait for it. It may have to do with the cost of certifying different engines.
But then why does the Legacy GT get a 5 speed auto, and the Baja and Forester turbos only a 4 speed? And why does the H6 6 speed make it to Japan and even tiny/obscure markets before it makes it here to the US? The country where 6 cylinders matters most?
That, I don't get.
Prices are killer in Canada, it really does put Subaru up against premium competitors.
-juice
On AVCS, I'm no engineer, but I imagine it must be quite a bit more complex to do on a boxer engine with 4 heads then it would be on an inline 4.
As to why Japan has it and we don't, perhaps they want to iron out the bugs first?
Sly
Isuzu has Direct Injection patents and that's the next frontier. So I say use GM's leverage to adapt gasoline DI technology to the JDM AVCS engines.
Combine both innovations and we might see mpg numbers going +2 or so.
Sadly, Mazda will beat them to it, the MPS will have DI and a twin turbo, although it will cost a couple grand more than the Legacy GT.
Still, Subaru could bring GDI plus AVCS to the mass market first.
23/30 with 165hp is good, but imagine if you could get 25/32 with 180hp in a Legacy, maybe 24/30 in an Outback? I bet that would boost sales.
Subaru has helped GM with the 9-2x, what's in it for Subaru? So far nothing. C'mon. DI is the ticket.
-juice
http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=101417
Bob
Maybe SOA is contractually obligated to buy parts or something - hence the reason to keep it around.
Ok... I feel better now :-)
http://www.fhi.co.jp/news/04_10_12/04_12_13_t.pdf
It's about Subaru debuts at the upcoming Toyko Motor Salon, which is January.
Bob
Major exhibit items:
1. Subaru Impreza S203
- Based on the Impreza STi but adds a larger turbocharger (still 2.0 twinscroll, though), Sport ECU, sport muffler to improve performance.
- 4-positiong adjustable struts, pillow ball rear lateral links
- "Dry carbon" front under spoiler, rear wing spoiler
- 18" BBS wheels
- STi/Recaro co-developed reclining bucket seats
2. Subaru Legacy B4 (Blitzen 2005 Model)
- Based on B4 2.0 GT but with new front bumper, grille, rear bumper, 17" wheels
- Interior features red and black two tone or solid black leather surfaces
3. Subaru Legacy Touring Wagon 3.0R Spec B Tuned by STi
- Based on the 3.0R Spec B wagon, this model adds Bilstein suspension, Brembo brakes, aluminum strut tower bar, sport muffler.
List of models on display.
1-3: Imprezas
4-8: Legacy
9-10: Impreza WRX
11: Impreza Sports Wagon
12-17: Custom designed R1 or R2
19: Legacy Touring Wagon ScLaBo custom car
20: Legacy ScLaBo custom car
Ken
Bob
Subaru
Monday, 1/10 @ 3:15 – 3:40
Bob
Ken
~Colin
But yeah, I would have bought one anyway. :-)
Ken
The more I think about it I bet this was a deliberate and calculated part of of the early "rollout" momentum that Subaru had planned. Think about it: "B9X." When you read that, you really focus on the "alphanumeric" aspect, which is what they were trying for. If they had said from the beginning "B9 Tribeca," most likely the "B9" aspect would be forgotten as the word "Tribeca" has been so widely distributed on the Net and in print. The vehicle would only be known as the "Tribeca," and the B9 aspect would get lost, and worse—probably forgotten altogether.
I mention this because I bet future existing model lines get a "B#" too. So therefore it is vitally important from a marketing and branding aspect, that the "B" aspect not be lost at the launch of this new vehicle. Hence tease (and mislead) the public with the original "B9X" name.
B#s
"B#s" are good from a marketing standpoint. They help organize and group Subaru's somewhat diverse model lineup. They can also be used to strengthen model relationships, or to distance relationships as marketing goals dictate. For example:
Subaru may want to strengthen the rugged outdoorsy images of both the Outback and Baja; perhaps group them closer together, from an image standpoint. So they may come up with a "B7 Outback" and a B7 Baja."
On the other hand, they may want to distance the Outback from the legacy. So if the Outback is called a "B7 Outback," the Legacy may be called a "B6 Legacy."
The "B#" helps move those vehicles closer together, or further apart, depending on how Subaru wants to position those models. It's a very good and effective marketing tool, I think.
Another example:
The Impreza line may get a "B5" prefix. So the cars would be: "B5 Impreza RS," (WRX, etc.). Now Subaru may want to further distinguish the very special STi by calling it the "B5 STi," and drop the "Impreza" name altogether from the marketing standpoint. It would still be linked to the Impreza by simply having the "B5" prefix. BMW does something very similar with their 3/5 series and the "M " cars.
This could be interesting, for sure, as to how Subaru markets their future cars.
Bob
although Tribeca still sucks. should be the B9 Surveyor!
~Colin
That will be the new name announced in January.
DaveM
Eric
Bob
so sir would you like your tribeca benign?
will the tribeca turbo be named the tribeca exciting? if the tribeca bombs will it be renamed the b17?
will the forester be renamed to the B4 Deforestation?
will the outback be renamed to the BKind2 Outback?
will the legacy be renamed to the B2B Legacy?
will the sonic yellow wrx sti be renamed to the BSting?
will the subaru incentives be called Bestbuys?
will subaru be renamed to Bubba-ru??
will owner manuals be referred to as Bibles?
will sunroofs now be referred to as Baywindows?
will drivers be referred to as Blokes?
will they try to by bmw so they can use more B words?
will all reviews of their cars be referred to as Blogs?
enquiring minds want to know
Wow- that's the longest post I've ever seen from you!
tom
good one ... lol
DaveM
So Kirsten announced she wants a Tribeca Hybrid. How long will I have to wait for THAT?!
But seriously, it makes me think of those Nissan Murano ads where they go antiquing or haul the kayaks to PacBell Park so they can paddle in McCovey Cove. A little too urbane for the traditional Subie niche...but then who am I to wonder?
Ed
Craig