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Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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Comments

  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    A good point was made over at Nabisco by Paul Hansen:

    in general, it always has been. In Japan, the Legacy GT and the Spec B make exactly the same power. Spec B merely meant it had what was equivelant to a sports package - better suspension, wheels, and a little more aggressive gearing ratio. I think people are getting confused and thinking it's some sort of STi version of the Legacy - it's not.

    At least Subaru is testing the market.

    Ken
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Name is from the Dept. of Redundancy Department. :P

    I guess they're just borrowing the name, using a different engine, different tranny, but keeping some of the cosmetics and the Bilstein for the name.

    -juice
  • kenokakenoka Member Posts: 218
    On an engine with a broad torque curve like the GT, I don't consider a six speed to necessarily be an upgrade; especially when it's a close-ratio six, as is the case with Subaru's tranny. It was probably deemed necessary on the 3.0 Spec B because of its peakier nature.
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    Without knowing anything about Subaru transmissions at all, I am would be inclined to agree somewhat with you, Kenoka. I have a Lancer Evo (GSR) and it has a 5 speed manual. 5th gear is decently overdriven, 70mph comes to right at 3,000 rpm, but it could probably go a little lower and additionally the car is rev-limited for top speed (as if that matters, really). The five gear ratios are well-chosen and flexible. A six-speed box honestly would be at least as much of a nuisance/annoyance in town as it would be useful on the highway to lower engine speed while cruising maybe 500-600 rpm. So it's a bit of a wash, and a Legacy GT makes better torque below 3,000 rpm than my engine does.

    However.

    I know something about Subarus and it is that their 5 speed manual is antiquated. It is the same physical case (and therefore, limited gear size and thus strength) since Subaru had 100 HP pushrod 1.8L engines. It's been beefed up as much as possible, but it is inherently weak because it's just plain small. Amatuer racers (rally, drag, and road) destroy these frequently as do heavy-handed hobbyists. Even with upgraded gearsets, it's unquestionably the weak point of the Subaru drivetrain.

    But Subaru finally got with the program in 2001. The then-new Japanese domestic market Impreza WRX STi utlized an all-new six speed manual which is significantly larger, heavier and stronger than the old 5 speed which is unlovingly referred to by enthusiasts and racers as the "glass box".

    If it were me, I'd definitely want the six speed for the long haul whether I was just doing normal commuting or after my warranty expired I was hot rodding a bit. :)

    ~Colin
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    One of the reasons why I decided to go with the 5EAT with my Legacy GT. The 5MT is tons of fun to drive, but I was a little weary given my own experiences with a similar tranny in my previous Subaru.

    Now why couldn't Subaru create a 5-speed variant of their 6MT?

    Ken
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    What he said. ;)

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I thought the HD 5-speed in the Legacy turbo addressed those "tranny = glass" issues, but I guess not...

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The only model with frequent claims was the 2002 WRX, I believe. Plus I bet most of the ones that broke were modified for more than stock power.

    -juice
  • kenokakenoka Member Posts: 218
    Thanks for the clarification boys. Bob does bring up an interesting question however. Given the "reinforced" nature of the box in the LegGT, has it had the same issues as the older tranny?
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I've personally witnessed 2 naturally aspirated 2.5L 165HP Subarus destroy the glassbox-- both were autocrossed, and yes absolutely, the way they were driven was a factor-- and tons of 2.5L turbo 5 speeds bite the dust. By turbo I mean WRX, FXT, LGT or even a turbo 98-01 RS. BOOoom.

    ~Colin
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    do some google searches. the Forest XT has been out for a few more model years than the new LGT and it is hardly immune to transmission problems.

    strengthening only does so much when the parts are just too small.

    ~c
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Colin, if I'm not mistaken, the F-XT does not use the HD 5-speed manual found in the L-GT. I've never seen any reference to it in any of the SOA F-XT promo material.

    The '06 F-XT now gets dual-cone snycros on first and third gears, I believe.

    Bob
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    While i was comparing features between XT & LLbean OB on Subaru.com, it had HIDs blank for both. Which means this is in the works for 2006.
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    I haven't read about any LGT 5MT problems over at legacygt.com to establish any failure trends. The most common problem and complaint seems to be around a smelly clutch.

    I could have sworn that the FXT also received the reinforced 5MT. Perhaps Subaru first used it on the FXT, but didn't advertise it?

    Ken
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    I think the category is there only because the WRX STi is the only USDM model to currently have it.

    I doubt 2006 information is on their websites.

    Ken
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Colin, if I'm not mistaken, the F-XT does not use the HD 5-speed manual found in the L-GT. I've never seen any reference to it in any of the SOA F-XT promo material.

    I don't know if it's the same as the LGT, but this is from Subaru Australia for the '03 Forester:
    "-All synchromesh baulk ring and gear docking teeth angles, along with the double-cone synchro on 2nd gear and 3rd gear, tuned to provide a precise but smooth gear shift action
    -Adoption of cold forging and shot peen hardening process of gears for improved durability"

    http://subaru.com.au/downloads/929304.pdf

    Never had a problem with my WRX's synchros or gears (expect for when the thieves' trashed reverse), but my FXT's 1st and 3rd synchros went out in less than a year. Actually 1st probably went within 6 months, but I didn't tell the dealer because I thought it was just me. They replaced 1st because they felt grinding and saw that the synchros were bad when they opened it up.

    -Dennis
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    98-99 Forester and Impreza has a TSB about the first gear synchros, but it wasn't very common, at least not here on Edmunds.

    -juice
  • jagarlandjagarland Member Posts: 26
    I have seen many thoughts (educated guesses) about the changes for above in 2006. Would someone please list them all as best they can, so I can decide if the new features are worth waiting for vs the deals Subaru has going on now.

    Any comments would be welcome.

    Thanks everybody

    Jack
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Jack,

    Did you mean 06 Outback XT? There's no such thing as an STi Outback, although it is an interesting concept!

    The best information at this point is that there will be only a few changes between 05 and 06. The major change is the addition of a navigation system option costing around $1500-$2000. Since the Legacy and Outback were just introduced last year, we don't expect to see any major changes until the next facelift sometime in 07.

    Ken
  • jagarlandjagarland Member Posts: 26
    Ken,

    Just wishful thinking on my part. I did mean the 06 Outback XT (Turbo). Maybe It would be smart for me to buy now with the deals they have and add the nav unit later. Also had hoped they might make Satellite radio available, but there are add-on units out there.

    Jack
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sign me up! ;)

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Found the following over at nabisco, from someone who lives in Sweden:

    Hi Folks!

    According to Subaru Deutschland in Friedberg, Hessen the 2006 Impreza STi will get the 2,5 litre engine and 280 HP. Slightly detuned from the US specs. The 2,0i will get DOHC and 158 HP.

    As allready confirmed for 2006, the Euro Forester 2,5XT will get the additional 20 HP just like the US version. So lets assume that the replacement for the WRX will be Impreza 2,5T with 230HP. Most likely with the choice of an automatic gearbox. First time for Europe in Impreza Turbo history.

    As for cosmetics: minor changes of headlights and bumpers. Otherwise: same same but different...

    Cheers!
    Martin in Sweden

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    image

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    Bob
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    They should make the mesh grill inserts an option on the Tribeca. :)

    DaveM
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Just about what I expected, meaning about as good as one can expect by grafting an all-new look onto an existing platform. I'm convinced that when the all-new Imprza (or whatever it's called) debuts, this new look will be fully (and properly) integrated, and will look really great.

    I see the wagon still has the narrow track that it had before. :(

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I wonder if these are JDM models, as they are RHD?

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The STI appears to have an extra small rear wing at the top of the rear window!

    Bob
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Not too bad of a refresh, but yeah, what can one expect when all they do is focus on the front?

    Does anyone else think the headlights look too big? I wonder why they keep doing that with the Impreza? The headlights are clearly modeled after the current Legacy, but the execution isn't as good here. At least they get the projector style headlights now.

    Ken
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Looks like a Pontiac in the first pic.

    -Dennis
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    image

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  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    image

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  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    I think the non-STi models, naturally cleaner without the body kit, wear the rhinoplasty a bit better. In fact, I really like it! Aggressive without being as polarizing as this generations bugged eyed first iteration, and far less plain than recently.

    Joe
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Like the B9, give me a BF hammer and I can make it look much better. I could live with the upside-down Alfa grille, but don't like the bulge. For some reason, I like the Zapitinas concepts much better than the production.

    After all of the info that I've been sending my English co-worker (in the market for a crossover) about the B9, he still just tells me "Sorry, I don't want an Alpha". :P
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Do you have access to the vocus PR May sales numbers? Very curious to see how the month panned out, I feel like Im seeing more and more OB and Legacy here in Central NJ.

    Joe
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    You can access that at http://media.subaru.com

    -Dennis
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    see b9 thread
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Thanks bluesubie! I'm going to bookmark that so I dont have to ask all the time :)

    have a great day

    Joe
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Lights do seem slightly oversized, but it's OK overall. I wish they had truly gone whole-hog with the new look, this one is a little too conservative.

    Yes, use that mesh insert on the Tribeca, please!

    Up close those lights look better, when you see the projector beams.

    Not crazy about that 2nd soiler on the hood of the STi. Like the rear wiper, though.

    I like it, but it's not distinctive. Conservatively handsome. Good transition vehicle, to get people used to the new look.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    those images were shot with a zoom lens, which distorts. So you're not getting "true" feeling for what the vehicle looks like. I bet it will look just fine when seen in person. Subies just don't seem to translate very well in 2-dimension as they do when seen in 3-dimension.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    When the full redesign will arrive?

    This Impreza debuted in 2002. This is the 2nd face-lift, but it still looks a lot like the original 2002 except for the face.

    If they are on a 5 year schedule this look will only last one model year!

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    MY 2008 we will get a full re-design of the Impreza.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That would put it on a longish 6 year cycle.

    I wonder if the Forester will also debut for MY2008, then, or wait until a year later like it did in the past.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Yeah, 6-year this Impreza. They won't do a facelift just to use it for one year. That's way too costly. I think we'll see the next Impreza and Forester as 2008 models here for us. My guess is the Impreza will be introduced first (early spring?), with the Forester in late summer. I also bet these cars get a "B #" prefix to go along with the name, to be consistant with the B9 Tribeca.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They could use B4 Impreza and After Impreza. :P

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.thecarconnection.com/Vehicle_Reviews/SUVs_Wagons/2006_Subaru_Forester.S181.A870- 4.html

    Here's news: The increased ground clearance for '06 is due to a revised exhaust system, and not due to a lifted or revised suspension.

    Bob
  • bluesubiebluesubie Member Posts: 3,497
    Excuuuse me? Did it get VDC? ;)

    Safety equipment: Anti-lock four-wheel disc brakes, stability control

    -Dennis
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Not that I'm aware of. Must be an error.

    Bob
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    it could very well be amistake
  • atlgaxtatlgaxt Member Posts: 501
    They did not address why according to Subaru's own figures, cargo capacity has gone down about 10% from '05 to '06.
  • njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
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