Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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Comments

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I didn't get to see it after it was signed. We were behind Ed in line.

    Later on the PR folks called us in and said we didn't have to wait in line in the first place. DOH!

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Cool Ed. :) Now go auction it off on E-Bay! ;)

    Bob
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    I don't think that will happen anytime soon. I plan on keeping it long enough for my son to realize what it's all about, and I wouldn't feel good about auctioning off a piece of his childhood.

    Ed
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    E-bay bidder: I'll give you $500 for it.

    Ed: how will you be paying for that?

    :P
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Ed,

    That is way too cool!

    Ken
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    ed,
    where did you get this from ? this is great
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    • full-size spare
    • 17 wheels
    • optional 4EAT w/sportshift
    • Self-leveling rear suspension

    Everything our USD model lacks. :(

    http://www.subaru.co.nz/New_Vehicles/Forester/forester_06_microsite/?PHPSESSID=d75cd30660e- be24d54c506d347867128

    Bob
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    subaru of america really sucks, slow & painful.

    the other day i had a flat on my 2005 OB XT, i put the donut spare into the wheel & put the flat into the boot, to my surprise the full size fitted perfectly into my spare tire spot. So SoA is just cost cutting.

    no hid, memory light, full size spare, etc etc. why the hell they can;t offer options - at least those who want can do it ?
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    The fullsize 225 tire fit in the spare tire well? At least that's good news. That wasn't the case with last generation 225-sized Outback tires. Do you know if the trunk cover can still be stored under the trunk floor with the fullsize tire in the spare well? IIRC that was an issue with the Forester.

    Bob
  • saedavesaedave Member Posts: 694
    the other day i had a flat on my 2005 OB XT, i put the donut spare into the wheel & put the flat into the boot, to my surprise the full size fitted perfectly into my spare tire spot. So SoA is just cost cutting.

    Probably not primarily cost cutting...weight reduction to help fuel economy.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    So how much gas mileage do you think in having a donut over a full-size spare you will gain? .000001 mpg? Really, that's a pretty weak argument...

    My guess is it's for cost-cutting, and nothing else.

    The other thing is, donuts have a 50 mph speed limit; at least the one in our '96 Impreza does. I would suggest that you check your owners manual. I bet yours has a similar speed rating. Also, these tires usually have a very limited mileage life too.

    Bob
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    So, a *flat* full size will fit in there. But will a fully inflated full size fit in there now? That's the real question

    -Brian
  • saedavesaedave Member Posts: 694
    Bob,

    The weight saving is probably about the same as the substitution of aluminum for steel in the hood. Is that irrelevant too?

    Dave
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Whether it's irrelevant or not is not the point. It's a dumb decision of Subaru's part.

    In virtually every other market (Australia, New Zealand, Europe, etc.) Subarus come with fullsize spare tires. The weight saving of a donut tire certainly didn't impress those importers enough to replace their fullsize spares.

    Check for yourself if you like.

    http://www.subaru-global.com/worldwidenetwork/

    Bob
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    remember, i am referring to OB XT not forester. i am talking 17in. yes, i could close the cover perfectly flat. interesting question as brian said, would it be the same if fully inflated.

    i gave a further thought to full size spare. it is really not needed. even if i had a full size spare, i would still fix my flat. so, when i fix my flat, i just ask the workshop to put it back in the wheel. the only disadvantage is in a long trip, you don;t need to worry about driving for a long distance.
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    image

    image

    image

    image

    image

    image

    image

    Love the new 17" wheels—and note the red brake calibers!

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    That one looks sharp. I like how the calipers match the paint on the red one.

    Perforated leather also is nice. Plus it looks like a double-DIN radio that could be easily replaced if you wanted XM or Sirius.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Dave - the weight savings from an aluminum hood are just as negligable, but...

    You gotta factor the other benefits:

    * rust resistance on the most-often-dinged panel on the car
    * easy to lift for checking oil levels at each fuel stop (you do that, right?)
    * better heat dissipation

    Given those benefits it's worthwhile to spend more on an aluminum hood.

    -juice
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    I like how the calipers match the paint on the red one.

    Never mind the paint match; note the pistons! Those are the infamous and much desired factory four-pot calipers. They would not clear the OEM 16" wheels, but by going to a standard 17" wheel they now fit. This should promise better stopping power even with OEM brake pad materials but, of course, only testing will tell.

    Ed
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I agree Ed. I'm sure SOA is banking on some good PR on these brakes to offset all the bad press the old brakes got.

    Bob
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Looks great! Even the Alcheeza-ed tailights look pretty good here.

    Love the wheels and calipers.

    Saw one in Japan when I was there two weeks ago. The facelift looks good in person.

    Ken
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    From a "styling" standpoint, it's unfortunate that the trunk key is right next to the badging. Too bad the trunk key wasn't removed as per the Impreza wagon.

    image

    Of course in doing so, Subaru would have to include a trunk handle of some sort. They were able to do so very nicely with the R1/R2 sold in Japan.

    image

    Note the small scooped area for your hand under the rear logo. The logo acts as the hatch handle. This is a very nice design detail.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Reminds me of the Z4's side marker lights, how they are behind the BMW logo.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I bet we see an R1/R2-like hatch handle when the car gets redesigned for '08.

    Bob
  • nowakj66nowakj66 Member Posts: 709
    When do these arrive at the dealers and what can we expect in the way of Mileage?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Should be soon, I'd say in August if I had to guess.

    I'll toss out another guess - 19/25 EPA mpg. YMMV.

    -juice
  • lark6lark6 Member Posts: 2,565
    From a "styling" standpoint, it's unfortunate that the trunk key is right next to the badging. Too bad the trunk key wasn't removed as per the Impreza wagon.


    Bob, sacrificing practicality for styling? Come now. ;) (my first use of an emotorcon IIRC)

    Note the small scooped area for your hand under the rear logo. The logo acts as the hatch handle. This is a very nice design detail.

    Agreed, but I'd like to see some unpainted plastic under that handle to absorb impacts and mute the results of scratches. Ditto under the door handles, which are now painted body color on virtually all models. Maybe there's a little juice influence there, knowing his (and others') open fondness for unpainted lower body panels. I won't go that far, but door and hatch handles are high-traffic areas and among the first to show scratches. Even on brands that are upmarket or have upmarket pretensions, door handle scratches are common and noticeable.

    Unrelated: Tribeca styling critics should take note of the lower rear valence (sp?) panel on the R2 pictured.

    Ed
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Ed, trunk keys are becoming a thing of the past. I have to admit, when I first saw this trend occurring, I too had reservations. Not any more, as everyone now uses key FOBs. Frankly, I can't remember the last time I used my key to lock/unlock any of my vehicles.

    As to unpainted plastic under the door and hatch handles, my practical side agrees with you, but my aesthetic side hates the idea. I think that problem could be easied if not eliminated by simply making the scooped out areas a bit larger and deeper, so that the chances of someone actually rubbing up against the car's body while going for the door handle is greatly reduced.

    Bob
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    As to unpainted plastic under the door and hatch handles, my practical side agrees with you, but my aesthetic side hates the idea.

    I agree with you there Bob. Saabs use the unpainted plastic and it looks down market IMHO. But I see the scratches on my parent's CRV from my Mom's fingernails.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I like the Tribeca - you just press a button and it sort of pops up by itself, you barely have to help it up at all.

    -juice
  • trueawdtrueawd Member Posts: 64
    Forget about getting the R2 handle...I bet they bring the whole R2.

    Think about it...An ALL WHEEL DRIVE SAFE SUBARU for 13 grand that gets 40 plus mile to the gallon???

    Just you wait and see...

    True
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    My family needs that type of "commuter" Subaru so badly! (Frankly, for looks I'd rather have an R1 but they'll probably never send that over here.) With the gradual addition of other small cars to the U.S. market, hopefully Subaru will decide to get in on this niche before it's crowded (i.e. Tribeca).
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Questions is the price point, what price point could they bring it here for.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Stopped by the local dealer on the way back from the dentist, and picked up an '06 Baja brochure. Here's are the changes as best I can tell:

    • Center cap on wheels now have the star logo, as per all other '06 Subies.
    • Down to 3 colors: Atlantic Blue Pearl; Brilliant Silver Metallic; and Obsidian Black Pearl, which now appears to be monochromatic with matching black (not gray) cladding.
    • Baja Sport manual has slightly better gas mileage ratings.

    MIA:
    • Engine upgrades that other '06 models got.
    • Rear oval logo and badging, as per other '06 models.

    Not much good news IMO.

    Bob (hearing SOA nailing the coffin closed)
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    Bob,

    What is the MT Sport mileage ratings? Subaru web page and media don't have the new brochure yet.

    John
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    2006 = 23/28
    2005 = 21/27

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Seems like it was tuned like the '05 Outback.

    For '06 the Forester actually lost a couple of mpg, actually.

    -juice
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    it picked up ETC. What are the new HP and torque numbers?

    John
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Same as before.

    Bob
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    no engine changes or tuning changes (eg. hp and torque the same) maybe it was just an EPA deal. I can't understand how mpg creeps almost 10% in the city and 5% on the highway.

    Besides, auto has the same engine w/o any mileage increase. Puzzling.

    John
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Maybe the final drive ratio was changed?

    Bob
  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    perhaps, but the Baja MT sport already had the old Outback final drive, which allowed the Baja Turbo to be geared better than the Forester XT for highway.

    I haven't thrown out the Baja yet for a 2006 model purchase, but yes I am disappointed that SOA had a whole arsenal of modern efficient equipment to put into it but decided not to spend the bucks on it.

    It does spell doom for the Baja.

    John
  • trueawdtrueawd Member Posts: 64
    They will only bring it in if it's less then $14,000. They would have no chioce to compete.

    It would help alot for CAFE. As far as I know the only vehciles Subaru gets credit for now is the Outback Sport and Impreza 2.5i, because all the rest are turbos or classified as trucks. They really need the R2. Inexpensive, AWD, SAFE, High MPG!!!

    It would be a good Scion fighter.....
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Not sure if you're aware of this, but both the R1 and R2 only have a tiny 660cc engine, less than half the size of a Scion engine. So I'm not so sure that they would compete directly with one another, other than on price.

    Bob
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    Just think of all the great marketing fun they could have with George Lucas by bringing the R2. :)
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    SoA won't ask for this because the Justy had, what, a 1.2l engine? And that was deemed too small for the US.

    A car like that would need some help, some sort of perk, to success. Ideas I've had include HOV lane access, free registration, or tax credits. Maybe free or reduced parking in urban areas.

    Those are the kind of things that would help small cars succeed.

    Even so, I think it would need an engine twice the size.

    -juice
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    the justy was an OHV 1.3L inline three. a modern engine with EFI would be ample in a car the weight of a Justy, but yes, Justys were dogs.

    even still, with a car surely coming in over 2000lb curb weight, I can't see a 660cc engine being viable. MAYBE with a turbo- or supercharger.

    ~Colin
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    There's a supercharged R2 sold in Japan. It's the R2 S. Note the tell-tail hood scoop on the R2 S in the below link.

    http://www.subaru.co.jp/r2/lineup/04/index.html

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Small displacement engines like that are purpose-built for markets that offer incentives or subsidies for them. In Japan I guess it's 660cc.

    In Brazil, it's under 1000cc. So you see a lot of "Mille" models just under that limit. They are taxed at something like half the rate. So you'd see a turbo 997cc engine before you'd see a 1.2 or 1.4l.

    In the US, where 8.0l truck engines carry no disadvantage, it would be a tough sell, to say the least.

    -juice
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    In Japan, the light "Kei" car category limits engine size to 660cc.

    http://www.autozine.org/html/Daihatsu/Mira.html (scroll down towards bottom)

    Ken
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