The fact is people's income has not risen in proportion to the steep rise in fuel costs.
Bob no one's income has. The problem is far worse for the transportation industry, and it's causing inflation. Something has to be done, effectively and hopefully soon, about 2 problems:
1. High price of crude 2. Limited refining capability
A while back I went to a Lexus dealer for a test drive freebie offer, and the salesman suggested I get on the wait list and later sell my place in line. Wonder how much I could have made if I'd done that. Would have required a $500 deposit.
Good points, Bob. The overal rise in fuel costs also disproportionately hurts people of lower income brackets.
I'm sure people who were once considering a performance oriented vehicle requiring premium gas are looking at the more fuel efficient designed for regular models. However, I find it interesting that many people don't seem to understand how relatively small the difference in yearly savings is by going from premium to regular. Factor in the time value of money and it's even less.
if you can't put premium in a new $25,000 WRX, you should not be buying the car. you should probably be purchasing something <$20,000, or less expensive to insure.
there's a huge difference though in being insulted and feeling slighted about the $.18-.25 more per gallon for premium. some people are just highly annoyed by it, like Juice.
Yeah, annoyed enough to influence their next car purchase. A friend of ours, who used to own an Acura Vigor, which required premium, just bought a new Volvo which runs on regular.
Was that a smart purchase? I don't think so, but come hell or high water, the next car she was to buy (after the Acura) was going to run on regular gas. FWIW, they (she and her husband) could easily have afforded a car that runs on premium, afterall they ended up with a Volvo, but they just refused to go that route again. I bet there's a lot of people out there like this couple—especially after the spike in gas prices.
To be honest what annoys me is that we did indeed put premium fuel in our Mazda 626, for 5 years straight, nothing but. Name brand stuff too.
Yet we still had that FI issue, had to pay a good $500 or so for a "throttle body service" to unclog it. So-oooo lame. Mileage wasn't too high either, 70k or so IIRC.
Funny thing is my Escort went 107k miles on the cheapest stuff I could possibly find (often going well out of my way to find the worst, I mean cheapest, gas possible).
So our experience with premium fuel was not a good one, we paid that $150 per year extra (or however much) and it didn't do us much good.
Ran just fine on regular until we sold it. LOL
-juice
PS With turbos I can recognize the need, I won't debate that.
I've seen some tuner cars and there was this yellow one where they replaced the front bumper and got rid of all those seams around the grille and wings. Looked very nice. Subaru should do that to all of them.
Won't happen, at least not until the all-new '08 model arrives, and maybe not even then. Why? Because the Outback Sport and some European models will use chrome there to set those models apart. If you make it a 1-piece item, as you suggest, that won't be possible. See image:
Frankly, that doesn't bother me. It's waaaaaaaay better than multi-piece '02 – '03 ("bugeye" version) bumper/grille combo (which I hated!).
I thought the '04 was a step down from '03 in styling, making it looking like a Hyundai (rear looked like Kia already and they did not change it then). But I read over and over that '02 and '03 look was considered fiasco. Why oh why?
BTW I own '03 WRX and would never ever change it for '04 or even '05, despite better interior and other improvements.
New '06 looks good to me. With engine upgrade it would be my new car if I were into buying a new car now. Definitely better than Tribeca, which looks just like Murano/FX with not so well executed Alfa Romeo grille.
But I read over and over that '02 and '03 look was considered fiasco. Why oh why?
The design was good, or perhaps I perhaps I should say the "idea" was good, but the execution was lousy. Why? The contour of the front fenders were way too upright, thus creating a brick-like appearance. If the fenders had a more graceful contour (AKA Porsche 911, MB E-Class and early Dodge Neons) it would have looked much better. Also, the many parts that composed the bumper and grille made it look cheap, if not tacky.
As I said, the idea was good, and in the hands of an "artist" could easily have been pulled off to look very good. Instead, it was put in the hands of a "pipefitter," and it looks that way.
This is a classic case of the "devil being in the details." If it had been executed with finesse and care it could have looked great. Unfortunately that never happened.
Actually I don't blame Subaru designers, as they certainly are talented. I put the blame squarely on those who approved and/or directed the design, who obviously have little or no understanding of what good design is. Subaru finally realized this, which is why they brought in Mr. Z to head up the design department.
I would not say the bugeye Impreza was great looking, but I definitely liked the 02-03 bugeyes better than the 04-05 generic look (in fact, I bought an 03 when I saw what was coming for 04). I know the bugeyes did not appeal to everyone, but that was the generation of WRX that exceeded sales by a huge margin in the US, so it couldn't have been all that bad. It was definitely unique looking, again, something I could not say about the 04-05. A lot of blockiness in the design was due to the sedan's flared fenders which carried their own styling themes (ie, look at a WRX wagon without the front fenders and it's a different look).
From what I have read over the years, the Bugeyes look was not well received in Europe, but it did well elsewhere.
BTW, there were a total of five outer pieces on the 02-03 front end -- the massive bumper cover, the grille, two wings on the sides of the grille (which were styled differently in different markets and trim levels), and a teeny little panel covering the tow hook hole. It may have looked busy, but there were very few actual parts. In reality, Subaru was carrying the rally look, with numerous vents and ducts, over to the WRX. In doing so, the vents/ducts lost function and became styling elements. Right there, it gets questionable.... like fake ventiports on a Buick....
Still, I am happy every time I see my old 03 WRX being driven around by a coworker who bought it. I still think it was a sweet looking car overall.
Craig, the bugeyes did well here because never before was there a Subie like that sold here. It sold well inspite of its looks, not because of its looks.
Anyone notice that SOA is getting new STis out to the dealers before other Imprezas? I guess they want to get the "hot" model out to the gearheads, so they can rave over the car (and get the word out).
we're off-topic here, this is no longer really about future subaru models that will / won't require premium.
but it sounds like you expected your 626, that recommended/required premium, to be less likely to have fuel problems because of it's use of premium fuel.
#1 -- premium mostly is just higher octane. long ago, most companies put all the same additives and detergents in regular unleaded.
#2 -- no car is excluded from the possibility of problems. news flash: hondas and toyotas still break, even though they both carry a well-deserved reputation for reliability. when you find one that isn't reliable it isn't that the perception is wrong; it's that the owner isn't properly maintaining it or driving it hard, or that they're just unfortunate. (no one's perfect!)
#3 -- fuel problems like you experienced are usually caused by bad gas, which often is exclusively a problem with the consumer reseller-- poor quality control, poor filtering, something like that. these storage-related issues occur with both premium and regular grade gasoline, and they're rare to boot: most vendors know that they have to take care of their product or people will have problems and they'll buy elsewhere!
I agree with Bob. The 02-03 BugEye sold well because it was available with a 227 HP turbocharged engine. The 93-01 Impreza look is well-dated, unquestionably, but few people prefer the looks of the '02 WRX to an '01 RS.
'04 smoothed the Impreza quite a bit and really helped. The STi's fenders in particular looked great. '06... tch, I'd take the bugeye in a heartbeat.
you know it! I started subbing again last week and applied to various places for P/T work. I'm taking the Praxis II exam in September (used by 37 states for teacher certification) and will then be in contact with our friends in NJ.
Bugeyes was much better than the quickie cross eyes "fix" they made. I haven't seen the '06 in person, but the snout looks better on the Rex than on the Tribeca.
Yeah, anyone concerned about premium fuel prices should not be shopping for a turbo-charged car. I pay 10 cents more for premium per gallon than my wife does (I can't get her not to use it in the OB). The Sunoco station near us has 6 cents off on Tuesday's, but they have old pumps. The Amoco up the street has more pumps, pay at the pump and the pumps don't shut off three gallons before full like at Sunoco (yes, everything checked by dealer including all evap. hoses, cannister, etc.). I'm paying $1.20 or so more per tank full I suppose.
Anybody have any idea as to what SOA will unveil at the upcoming Detroit Show/ At the moment I haven't a clue. I think it could one of any number of possibilities: Turbo Tribeca? '07 Legacy? Something entirely new?
Detroit being the premier auto show that it is, I would think whatever SOA shows, it would be dramatic. I don't expect SOA to use this show (because it's so important) to just to show a minor upgrade on some model, but rather to use this opportunity to make a big model and/or marketing statement of some sort.
SOA has been so busy launching new models recently, I can't remember the last time we saw a new concept vehicle from them.
I would love to see a Baja done right. I spent a lot of time looking at a Ridgeeline last week, and it's nice, but I still think the concept area can be improved on.
even tho the Ridge is down in price, 20 mpg average doesn't appeal to me. I have 40k in 29 months owning my '03 Forester so I can count the dollars I have saved with it.
Anybody have any idea as to what SOA will unveil at the upcoming Detroit Show/ At the moment I haven't a clue. I think it could one of any number of possibilities: Turbo Tribeca? '07 Legacy? Something entirely new?
My guess is that they will unveil the 2007 European Tribecas, both left and right hand drive. I've also heard 2007 is when Tribecas go global. What changes are in order? I can't tell you yet.
The European Tribecas are coming, no doubt, but I suspect at Detroit they will show something that has relevance here. The European Tribecas will most likely be introduced at some major European car show like Paris, Geneva or Frankfurt.
The European Tribecas are coming, no doubt, but I suspect at Detroit they will show something that has relevance here.
There will be some interesting additions to all 2007 Tribecas that some here have been asking for. It is too early to reveal what all of those additions will finally be but let's hope most of them make it. Hint...yes, I know about more than I can say right now.
Autoblog is reporting a story supposedly by Reuters that Fuji Heavy's stock is hot after an an annoucement "that Subaru would produce a hybrid by April of 2007 featuring a li-ion battery developed together with NEC. The launch of said hybrid, however, will be a trial and not intended for the mass market."
Not sure if this is a reference to the electric vehicle reported earlier. I haven't been able to confirm that specific info anywhere yet. Even the link at Autoblog takes you to a Reuters News Service page about Mitsubishi (also mentioned in the same Autoblog story).
Keep your eyes peeled and I'll post an update if I find anything.
storage-related issues occur with both premium and regular grade gasoline
OK, but then why does premium cost 3 cents more per gallon at wholesale, yet these places are charging 20 cents more per gallon for the good stuff? One would hope for better storage, filtering, and distribution given you're paying more for it.
I guess that's just 17 cents pure profit, and all gas is treated the same once it leaves the refinery?
Prodrive discussed a new Subaru turbo engine with NO turbo lag in the latest Automotive Engineering International. It was designed for WRC, but it certainly would be nice for the GT! It should be shown to the public soon.
That telescopic steering (i.e. lack thereof) wheel is one of those Japanese "treats". For reasons I cannot explain (other than perhaps cheapscate execs) there are no telescopic steering wheels on almost any of Hondas, Toyotas, Nissans, Mistubishis and unfortunately Subarus. I son't know for sure, but it would not surprise me lack of those even on those upscale brands. Across the board it looks like ergonomics in Japan is different than in say Gemany or Sweden. Anybody who have sat inside of a relatively small 3-series BMW (even older ones) knows how different it feels when you can adjust the distance from your shoulders to the wheel to exactly what you want/need...
It sometimes really looks that their design is "ethnically biased", that in spite of being global companies, their engineers simply cannot comprehend that the driver may be taller than 5-10 or in general may have different body proportions (say arm reach to torso length, etc.) than those people they see in elevators in their research fcility in Tokyo, Gunma, or Yokohama
I guess that means they decided that telescopic wheel is "European" (in Seinfeld's sense) and regular people don't need/want it. It would fit the logic.
One word - cheapscates. You can see it in other brands even more apparent - I think Toyota and Nissan are leaders of putting just enough content so you will buy it for the given price (esp. when consider economy aspect, i.e. reliability and fuel efficiency), but not enough to fully enjoy the purchase few months later. It is kind of: "Allright, I had to adjust a little, but show me your last gas/mechanic bill"
One would think Subaru would want to be appart from that croud, but it is still not fully free of this mindset.
This article has really put me down. I can see Subaru moving to Camcord cookie cutter approach - fewer models, fewer trims, more generic looks and designs. Bye bye manual on upper trims (or maybe even on entire wagon line), even fewer stan-alone options. One word Subaru Altima - perfectly competent, somewhat exciting, but after closer look not as original. Lets just hope not Subaru Galant..
Comments
Get a CPO Toyota Echo for about twelve dollars instead.
-juice
Bob no one's income has. The problem is far worse for the transportation industry, and it's causing inflation. Something has to be done, effectively and hopefully soon, about 2 problems:
1. High price of crude
2. Limited refining capability
~c
A while back I went to a Lexus dealer for a test drive freebie offer, and the salesman suggested I get on the wait list and later sell my place in line. Wonder how much I could have made if I'd done that. Would have required a $500 deposit.
-juice
Bob
I'm sure people who were once considering a performance oriented vehicle requiring premium gas are looking at the more fuel efficient designed for regular models. However, I find it interesting that many people don't seem to understand how relatively small the difference in yearly savings is by going from premium to regular. Factor in the time value of money and it's even less.
Ken
there's a huge difference though in being insulted and feeling slighted about the $.18-.25 more per gallon for premium. some people are just highly annoyed by it, like Juice.
~Colin
Was that a smart purchase? I don't think so, but come hell or high water, the next car she was to buy (after the Acura) was going to run on regular gas. FWIW, they (she and her husband) could easily have afforded a car that runs on premium, afterall they ended up with a Volvo, but they just refused to go that route again. I bet there's a lot of people out there like this couple—especially after the spike in gas prices.
Bob
Yet we still had that FI issue, had to pay a good $500 or so for a "throttle body service" to unclog it. So-oooo lame. Mileage wasn't too high either, 70k or so IIRC.
Funny thing is my Escort went 107k miles on the cheapest stuff I could possibly find (often going well out of my way to find the worst, I mean cheapest, gas possible).
So our experience with premium fuel was not a good one, we paid that $150 per year extra (or however much) and it didn't do us much good.
Ran just fine on regular until we sold it. LOL
-juice
PS With turbos I can recognize the need, I won't debate that.
The black '06 STi was next to a black '05 STi, so you could make an apples-to-apples comparison. I think the '06 looks just great in person.
Bob
so you are saying subaru is introducing a full line of cars that do not look good in pics but look great in person? :P
Bob
-juice
Frankly, that doesn't bother me. It's waaaaaaaay better than multi-piece '02 – '03 ("bugeye" version) bumper/grille combo (which I hated!).
Bob
BTW I own '03 WRX and would never ever change it for '04 or even '05, despite better interior and other improvements.
New '06 looks good to me. With engine upgrade it would be my new car if I were into buying a new car now. Definitely better than Tribeca, which looks just like Murano/FX with not so well executed Alfa Romeo grille.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
The design was good, or perhaps I perhaps I should say the "idea" was good, but the execution was lousy. Why? The contour of the front fenders were way too upright, thus creating a brick-like appearance. If the fenders had a more graceful contour (AKA Porsche 911, MB E-Class and early Dodge Neons) it would have looked much better. Also, the many parts that composed the bumper and grille made it look cheap, if not tacky.
As I said, the idea was good, and in the hands of an "artist" could easily have been pulled off to look very good. Instead, it was put in the hands of a "pipefitter," and it looks that way.
This is a classic case of the "devil being in the details." If it had been executed with finesse and care it could have looked great. Unfortunately that never happened.
Actually I don't blame Subaru designers, as they certainly are talented. I put the blame squarely on those who approved and/or directed the design, who obviously have little or no understanding of what good design is. Subaru finally realized this, which is why they brought in Mr. Z to head up the design department.
Bob
From what I have read over the years, the Bugeyes look was not well received in Europe, but it did well elsewhere.
BTW, there were a total of five outer pieces on the 02-03 front end -- the massive bumper cover, the grille, two wings on the sides of the grille (which were styled differently in different markets and trim levels), and a teeny little panel covering the tow hook hole. It may have looked busy, but there were very few actual parts. In reality, Subaru was carrying the rally look, with numerous vents and ducts, over to the WRX. In doing so, the vents/ducts lost function and became styling elements. Right there, it gets questionable.... like fake ventiports on a Buick....
Still, I am happy every time I see my old 03 WRX being driven around by a coworker who bought it. I still think it was a sweet looking car overall.
Craig
Bob
Bob
but it sounds like you expected your 626, that recommended/required premium, to be less likely to have fuel problems because of it's use of premium fuel.
#1 -- premium mostly is just higher octane. long ago, most companies put all the same additives and detergents in regular unleaded.
#2 -- no car is excluded from the possibility of problems. news flash: hondas and toyotas still break, even though they both carry a well-deserved reputation for reliability. when you find one that isn't reliable it isn't that the perception is wrong; it's that the owner isn't properly maintaining it or driving it hard, or that they're just unfortunate. (no one's perfect!)
#3 -- fuel problems like you experienced are usually caused by bad gas, which often is exclusively a problem with the consumer reseller-- poor quality control, poor filtering, something like that. these storage-related issues occur with both premium and regular grade gasoline, and they're rare to boot: most vendors know that they have to take care of their product or people will have problems and they'll buy elsewhere!
~Colin
'04 smoothed the Impreza quite a bit and really helped. The STi's fenders in particular looked great. '06... tch, I'd take the bugeye in a heartbeat.
~Colin
Well, I don't agree with that, but to each his.
Bob
Bob
Yeah, anyone concerned about premium fuel prices should not be shopping for a turbo-charged car. I pay 10 cents more for premium per gallon than my wife does (I can't get her not to use it in the OB). The Sunoco station near us has 6 cents off on Tuesday's, but they have old pumps. The Amoco up the street has more pumps, pay at the pump and the pumps don't shut off three gallons before full like at Sunoco (yes, everything checked by dealer including all evap. hoses, cannister, etc.). I'm paying $1.20 or so more per tank full I suppose.
-Dennis
Detroit being the premier auto show that it is, I would think whatever SOA shows, it would be dramatic. I don't expect SOA to use this show (because it's so important) to just to show a minor upgrade on some model, but rather to use this opportunity to make a big model and/or marketing statement of some sort.
Bob
Aren't some of these show cars just to assess public reaction?
John
I would love to see a Baja done right. I spent a lot of time looking at a Ridgeeline last week, and it's nice, but I still think the concept area can be improved on.
Craig
Bob
John
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
My guess is that they will unveil the 2007 European Tribecas, both left and right hand drive. I've also heard 2007 is when Tribecas go global. What changes are in order? I can't tell you yet.
Bob
The Forester has done well for me, I get by with it but I desperately need a bed.
John
There will be some interesting additions to all 2007 Tribecas that some here have been asking for. It is too early to reveal what all of those additions will finally be but let's hope most of them make it. Hint...yes, I know about more than I can say right now.
Okay, let me take a stab here. This should be fun...
'07 Tribecas will get (hopefully!):
• Wider availability of NAVI
• Another more powerful engine choice. My bet is a turbo 3.0.
• Some refinements to some interior details.
• Maybe another trim level? Perhaps a Tribeca LL Bean?
If any of the above is to occur, a simple
Bob
Not sure if this is a reference to the electric vehicle reported earlier. I haven't been able to confirm that specific info anywhere yet. Even the link at Autoblog takes you to a Reuters News Service page about Mitsubishi (also mentioned in the same Autoblog story).
Keep your eyes peeled and I'll post an update if I find anything.
http://www.gizmag.co.uk/go/4458/
OK, but then why does premium cost 3 cents more per gallon at wholesale, yet these places are charging 20 cents more per gallon for the good stuff? One would hope for better storage, filtering, and distribution given you're paying more for it.
I guess that's just 17 cents pure profit, and all gas is treated the same once it leaves the refinery?
-juice
* backup camera (or sonar)
* telescoping wheel
* memory seats
* NAV/DVD options on 5 seat models
That's short-term.
-juice
dave
Across the board it looks like ergonomics in Japan is different than in say Gemany or Sweden. Anybody who have sat inside of a relatively small 3-series BMW (even older ones) knows how different it feels when you can adjust the distance from your shoulders to the wheel to exactly what you want/need...
It sometimes really looks that their design is "ethnically biased", that in spite of being global companies, their engineers simply cannot comprehend that the driver may be taller than 5-10 or in general may have different body proportions (say arm reach to torso length, etc.) than those people they see in elevators in their research fcility in Tokyo, Gunma, or Yokohama
2018 430i Gran Coupe
-juice
One word - cheapscates. You can see it in other brands even more apparent - I think Toyota and Nissan are leaders of putting just enough content so you will buy it for the given price (esp. when consider economy aspect, i.e. reliability and fuel efficiency), but not enough to fully enjoy the purchase few months later. It is kind of: "Allright, I had to adjust a little, but show me your last gas/mechanic bill"
One would think Subaru would want to be appart from that croud, but it is still not fully free of this mindset.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
But hopefully I am wrong...
2018 430i Gran Coupe