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Comments
http://www.pestalozzi.net/sb/chevy_nomad/nomad_gallery.htm
Other Shooting Brakes here:
http://www.pestalozzi.net/sb/a_index.html
Bob
It's funny, some are very successful, like the Nomad, while others are UUUUUGLEE! Some have the hatch look tacked on instead of designed-in. The latter looks a whole lot better.
I think the B5 falls into the latter group.
-juice
Starting in '05, all Camrys have ABS standard....same with Accords since '03.... even the basic Standard and DX trims, respectively...
Not such great publicity from CR this month on the Tribeca, though the gripes they had were pretty much the ones everyone has already cited- acceleration light and lacking in second and third row comfort/space.
High praise for ride and handling, though.
Also, Id be all over a Subaru entry in the sub-Impreza category, a successor to the Justy. Definitely would require a turbo/stick/moonroof/hatch model.
I saw the R at the HQ in Cherry Hill in July, thats TOO small, but something in between would be really really unique, especially in the under $18K market.
-Joe
They don't hand out many style points so a design like the Tribeca (style over substance in some areas) will take a hit.
I'd like to see Architectural Digest try a review. LOL
-juice
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question132.htm
The B9-TPH concept uses a Miller-cycle turbo 2.0 H-4 engine with an electric motor. My understanding is that Miller-cycle engines don't make much power down low, which is where the electric (hybrid) motor comes into play.
Bob
Bob
concur
Yum, give a 2.5T engine, though. Light boost, Miller cycle. Tune it for regular fuel.
-juice
If the benefit is 10%+ in gasoline, has it ever been tried for a diesel? With its higher compression, wouldn't the exhaust removal penalty be even higher?
John
-juice
John
Bob
That would be expensive...
-juice
John
In fact I wonder if Subaru will develop a different system for the cheaper cars in the lineup. But I doubt it.
-juice
There's got to be some option in the Subaru lineup for saving fuel without spending $30k to do so. If not, they'll continue to damage their "green" image. (That's why I'd love to see an R1e here with the new 150-mile battery range and quick recharge time. Hmm... I wonder if they could do an R2e?)
Looks at CR, it's interesting, the Legacy GT and Impreza are among the very worst in their classes for fuel economy. Yet the Baja and Forester are among the very best in their class.
It's all relative. Subaru tends to compete better when you're talking about trucks or truck alternatives.
Put it up against fuel mising mini-cars and they won't stand a chance.
-juice
Juice, that is very simple and profound.
What is the biggest market still in the US? SUVs and trucks.
Make hay Subaru.
John
From another press release:
Fuji Heavy Industries dissolves alliance with General Motors, entering a new business collaboration with Toyota
Tokyo, October 5, 2005 - Fuji Heavy Industries, Ltd. (FHI), a global manufacture of transportation and aerospace-related products and the maker of Subaru automobiles, today released its plan of their alliance changes.
FHI and General Motors Corp. (GM) agreed to dissolve its strategic alliance and capital relationship and GM, the top shareholder of FHI, will sell all the FHI stocks they hold.
In December 1999, FHI and GM agreed upon a capital and strategic alliance. Since GM purchased about 20% of FHI shares and became the top shareholder of FHI, both companies worked together for various synergic effects. The joint efforts over the past 6 years period resulted in achievements such as global procurement, OEM business, technology exchanges, etc. However, the two companies concluded that mutually beneficial large joint projects are unlikely in future, and came to agree to terminate their strategic and affiliated company relationship.
Out of the 157 million FHI stocks that GM holds, which accounts for about 20% of the FHI outstanding common stocks, GM will sell 68 million stocks, 8.7%, to Toyota Motor Corp. (TMC). GM will sell the remaining 89 million stocks, 11.4%, in the market. At the same time, FHI plans to purchase 90 million stocks as Treasury Stock.
FHI and GM will discuss on the future direction of ongoing cooperative projects. As for the joint development project of a crossover vehicle between FHI and Saab, which was announced last year, FHI and GM have basically agreed to stop the development. FHI has decided to record extraordinary loss of 5,000 million yen, which is a part of the development cost, in this fiscal year.
At the same time, FHI has revised its annual profit estimate announced on May 12, after reviewing the recent circumstances such as weaker yen, sales momentum, etc. The revised figures are; Operating profit at 36,000 million yen (up 5,000 million from the previous estimate), Ordinary profit at 29,000 million yen (up 2,000 million yen), and Net profit at 12,000 million yen (down 3,000 million).
Upon TMC obtaining FHI’s shares, TMC and FHI agreed to start studying business collaboration. The two companies plan to set up a joint steering committee to study possible joint projects to seek synergic effects in the areas of research & development and production, and to supplement each other’s technological development.
FHI is going ahead with the 5-year business plan ending March 2007, the FDR-1 plan, and the situation change this time will not affect FHI’s relentlessness to achieve the target.
Does this mean no more Saabarus, but more Supraus?
Bob
Not that the GM partnership has yielded anything at all for Subaru, zilch.
GM probably felt they were not getting much, either. Remember they could not find a diesel to fit Subaru platforms for Europe, and the 9-2x could not even meet modest sales goals of 8000 units a year.
This is good news, I suppose. GM would never have helped Subaru, look at what they did for Isuzu and Saab.
Toyota, wow, let me digest that one for a little bit.
-juice
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I wonder if my Subaru Bucks wil be good towards a new 'Yota...
Saabaru was a waste - the Edsel of 21st century.
This may be the beginning of a full takeover of Subaru by Toyota.
Sure beats being taken over by GM though.
Looking forward to reading Juice's and everyone else's take.
i think toyota is truly trying to become the big gorilla of the hybrid world so it is making sure no one sneeks by them. i mean the b5-tph has a very cost effective implementation of a hybrid with its location of the hybrid within the powertrain.
Therefore i dont think toyota is gonna share too much of its core with subaru and thus dont expect to see much change in subaru's plans.
There's huge precedent for cross ownership in Japan - their economy is based on it. Not only of customers and suppliers, but also of competitors.
Toyota only bought 8.7% of Fuji shares because it already holds 45% market share in Japan. According to a WSJ article, anti-trust concerns prevented them from buying more of those shares.
Why did Toyota make the investment?
It could be to get access to the AWD systems but they're Toyota. It isn't like they couldn't perhaps spend less money and develop their own. This is a $300+ million dollar investment - I think they could develop a heck of an AWD system for that much coin.
It could be to create a captive customer for their hybrid components.
It could've been at the request of the Japanese government or Fuji itself. GM dumping 20% of the company on the open market would've wreaked havoc on Fuji and perhaps the Nikkei.
John
Ken
So Toyota gets more (and better) batteries, and presumably Subaru gets ready access to HSD... How does this affect the B5-TPH? I want a hybrid, but I want gears!
BOB
I'm just letting my mind wander on possible scenarios.
As for making money, read this yahoo article:
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/051005/japan_toyota.html?.v=11
Fuji just revised it's profit forcast for this year down by 20% due to exchange issues and lack of sales momentum. Yep - that's where I'm gonna plop down $315 million.
Aerospace hasn't been hot lately. Fuji also does small engines through the Robin nameplate. And their trucks and heavy equipment are major players.
The percentage for Subaru cars? I can't recall. But it wasn't over 50%.
I like to buy good companies when they are down and the stock price is right. It is a tried and true way of investing. Would I buy Fuji? No, but Toyota might be building their empire and diversifying and doing so at a great entry price.
John
Maybe Toyota is interested in Aerospace now the Honda plans on building airplanes. Gotta keep up with the Joneses - especially now that the Joneses bought out the rest of the F1 team they didn't already own.
I doubt it's empire building on the cheap. They kept their ownership at under 10% - the point where they'd have voting rights - to avoid anti-trust issues. If they were to buy Fuji outright, they'd probably have to spin off Subaru. Without voting rights, they have little control over the company.
I'm leaning more towards keeping my theory that they were asked to buy in by the government in order to prevent a run on Fuji stock and possibly threatening the viability of the company.
Looking at FHI balance sheet by sector, the automotive portion is about 90.5% of the sales.
You could be right about stock stability. However, Toyota's attitude was that they could care less about GM's problems. Perhaps blood is thicker than money in this case.
John
I guess the Saabaru plan will go down the tubes, which I'm sure will please the Saab folks. Would be interesting to know how much $$$ GM spent on R&D with the hopes of using the Subaru powertrain under their vehicles. I do recall a Chevy concept with the Subaru powertrain. Subaru had hope to lean on GM for economies of scale, but, I don't think GM did anything for them except throw them some money for R&D and give them the Saab entry level market. I haven't seen any shared parts between GM and Subaru, not even something as simple as a Delco battery, ha.
As we all know, Toyota is on a roll, and will be releasing more updated vehicles to ensure the ball keeps rolling. You guys have some good theories. Nobody knows what Toyota is thinking except the Toyota execs themselves. Time will tell..... :shades:
My understanding is that their relationship gave FHI the ability to buy parts cheaper, because they (GM) was so large. Let's hope Toyota extends that same offer to FHI.
Diesels? GM (via Isuzu) helped develop Subaru's new boxer diesel. Again, I would hope Toyota would lend their diesel expertise too, if needed.
Bob
Bob
That may be true if you think that fuel efficient Swedes are thrilled that their Saab logo will be on a GM SUV!
Analysis:
GM: Loser--not only did GM have an investment in the most successful AWD drive companies in the car industry, they also had shares in Fuji, a prominent battery technology company that could have provided GM/Subaru with superior hybrid systems .
Subaru: Winner--Combine Fuji with Toyota's massive economies of scale and hybrid technology and it can only be good news for Subaru
Toyota: Winner---It's hybrid mission for dominance has been enhanced with Fuji's battery technology. Also AWD cars/wagon do not overlap Toyota market segments.
Boy was I glad that never happened. Guess I can breathe a sigh of relief because now it likely nevery will. Whew.
Folks, to be honest, my reaction? I'm overwhelmed with the news. Surprised, in a good way. Yowsah. This is huge. Imagine the possibilities...
OK, Subaru has a good compact and smallish mid-size platform.
Small? Those that have seen the Toyota Aygo might feel it would fit right in - the grille looks exactly like the new Subaru corporate look, they could just change the logo. Not that I recommend that, but check out the Aygo.
Large? Imagine an AWD Avalon with a little dose of character....
Truck? FJ cruiser platform....Bob could get the back-to-basics off roader he's wanted.
Pickup? AWD Tacoma.
Disclaimer - by no means am I hoping for a rebadge, but shared platforms with Subaru drivetrains would have tons of potential. Time for FHI to develop a bigger H6 and maybe even an H8 for those applications.
Thing about Toyota is they are a full-line manufacturer. Compard to Subaru, which has an Impreza and a Legacy (which are related to some extent), and it would open up a lot of possibilities.
Economies of scale, deep pockets for R&D, and an overall philosophy a *lot* more compatible than GM's.
GM and Subaru was a round peg in a square hole. I mean that literally. The drivetrains did not share the same bolt patterns. I bet Toyota and Subaru have a lot more in common.
And I didn't even mention hybrids...
-juice
Bob
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=107490