Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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Comments

  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Paul Hansen took this photo.

    http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/1051

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Here's a good visual comparison between these two.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Ken: I'll be the first to say I do not like that. The circle doesn't match the interior theme at all, it looks completely out of place.

    Having said that, it's not a big deal, it hardly matters actually.

    I do like the cup holders, the lighting is gimmicky but I think it ends up looking like mood lighting and might help you find some change or small items you store in there.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Nice side-by-side pic, and to be honest I like the new Legacy better than the old Blitzen! Sweet.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I agree. It hardly matters.

    The real question should be does it "function" any better? Are the exposed (and lit) cupholders any better than the ones with the sliding cover? I doubt it. Different, yes. Better? Debatable.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    If they're lit, I'm actually more likely to use them for other things. To store little knick-knacks, coins or candy, stuff like that.

    -juice
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    I didn't like the circle-shaped gearshift surround and the circular cupholders when I first saw them in the black interior, but check out the sand-colored interior. The center stack is black, but the center console is sand-colored; the round shifter surround makes a nice transition between the two colors, I think.
    http://www.subaru.co.jp/legacy/outback/interior/01/
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Is that from a fish-eye lens? Those cup holders are decidedly oval.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    It's the camera lens. The whole interior is distorted.

    Bob
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    has some new (and old) images.

    http://www.masini.ro/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9933

    Bob
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Good point, jeff. I do agree that the gearshift surround is not as noticeable with the beige. Interesting.

    Aside from it being a bit too large for my tastes, the OCD in me worries about it being a dirt and grime trap.

    Ken
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    Looking through those Romanian pics, it's the first time I noticed that the models with the MacIntosh stereo have a center stack that's the same shiny, piano-finish black of the automatic shifter surround. Other models have a matte-black-finish center stack. The photo shows the MacIntosh paired with a manual trans, which doesn't have any shiny black in the shifter surround because it's all leather inside the chrome ring. I think the MacIntosh models with the shiny center stack may look odd with the shiny AT shifter surround, and it appears there'd be a matte black piece separating the two. Hard to describe - does that make any sense? Also, there seems to be a lot of reflection in that shiny black finish. Not sure how well that'll work on the center stack.
  • gampagampa Member Posts: 78
    Sorry if it was already posted...(didn't have time to go through the laast 18,000 posts)... but is anyone aware of Subaru adding a hybrid or diesel in the next few years... I have always admired the Forester and I feel it would be a hit with a diesel.

    Gampa
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Yes, Subaru is working on both a diesel and a hybrid. Latest reports are that the diesel will go on sale in a year or two, and the hybrid sometime after that. There have been reports that the Forester will get the diesel.

    Bob
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    First came wood, then plood (plastic wood).

    Then came aluminum, then pluminum, the fake stuff.

    Now we see piano black finishes. Mazda uses the stuff extensively, so do a few others, now Subaru. What do we call it? Plack piano? Pliano black? :D

    I like it more than the painted silver trim, but good old flat black/gray was fine with me.

    -juice
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    Bliano? ;)

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • orangelebaronorangelebaron Member Posts: 435
    The cup holders need to be moved forward to make room for a bigger, taller bi-level center storage console!
    And I need passenger seat height adjustment before I need memory seats!
  • chrisducatichrisducati Member Posts: 394
    I think humans tend to like shinny things. Some more than others. I would rather just have a charcole or black interior with out chrome or two tone treatment. I hate tan or light gray. Years ago I had a new Jeep that was flat gun metal gray from the factory. I loved it. Obviously not many others did.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I've seen a Dodge Intrepid around here that is painted a primer gray color, but it looks factory. It wasn't too popular, though, 'cause it's the only one I've seen!

    I've also heard of people that like their wheels painted flat black.

    -juice
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I've seen a Dodge Intrepid around here that is painted a primer gray color, but it looks factory.

    That was a factory color. I saw plenty of them here in New England
  • 2skipowder2skipowder Member Posts: 4
    How will the RDX sh-awd compare to the Subaru VTD awd system in the snow and ice? I would expect that sh-awd would be better on dry roads and the curves, but I have not heard much about the sh-awd system when the traction gets marginal. Is the RL sh-awd a source for comparison data? Does anyone have any ideas?
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    from Joe at cars101.com:
    "Prices on all models are are slightly lower! Due to California emission requirements there are now 2 non-turbo 4 cylinder models (like Legacy, Outback), one for 45 states, the other for California and other Northeastern states that adopted Ca standards. There are new colors and combinations, new front door panel trim with large cup/bottle holder, the X model gets the EBD (electronic brake force distribution) upgrade that has been on the other models. XT turbo gets 17" alloys, upgraded stereo; LL Bean gets gray colored alloy wheels... more to come"
    http://www.cars101.com/subaru/forester/forester2007.html#history
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Both are good system so my bet is it would come down to other factors, such as tires used.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    EDB on the X and 17"s on the XT, is that it?

    They don't say anything about alloys being standard on the X, as was rumored, but then again they say "more to come".

    Where is VDC? Sportshift? 5 ratio automatic?

    The July issue of Consumer Reports just came out the Forester dropped from the top ranking, now behind the RAV4 V6, RAV4 I4, and CR-V. I bet those 3 things had a lot to do with it.

    -juice
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    It'll also have the aux input (though rumored only on the 6-disc CD stereo). I'd bet size is a pretty big factor in those rankings, as well. They listed the RAV4 V6 and I4 as separate models? Do they list the XT as a separate model?
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    I'm surprised no one posted this yet:

    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=115529

    Ken
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I heard about it, but have not yet received my copy.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Check out the polished aluminum rims on the 07 GT. I sort of like the outgoing ones better.

    -juice
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    I think VDC may be a big item, but Sportshift isn't exactly the kind of item that CR cares about. Also of note is that the RAV4, for reasons beyond my understanding... is only available with a 4A in the 4 cylinder....

    ~alpha
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Got my CR last night. 0-60 is 2 tenths behind the RAV4 4 cylinder, but 4 tenths ahead of the last CR-V they tested (all automatics). MPG was 23 for the RAV4, 22 for the Forester, and 21 for the CR-V.

    So it's mid-pack in both those tests. The CR-V got a slightly higher overall score, but that was an EX compared to a Forester X. With the $2000 current rebate, we're talking about a $3 grand or so price difference.

    Still, the RAV4 earned rave reviews. The Forester was actually rated lower than it was before, probably because they make it harder to score as high as more features are added to the class (as mentioned above).

    So it's holding its own, but no longer head of the class, at least per CR.

    -juice
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Not bad at all, given the Forester's age. Also, they managed 22 MPG with this Forester, which is 1 MPG greater overall than they managed with their last version, which used the 165 horse edition of the same engine. It's nice to see Subaru producing models that age well.

    ~alpha
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    According to Joe Spitz's site, the Outback VDC has been dropped for '07!

    http://www.cars101.com/

    That makes no sense. If anything, they should be adding VDC to other Subarus, not dropping it! :(

    Bob
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    Perhaps they dropped the name, not the system. I think calling a car by its feature name or putting decals of the used systems on is never good idea, as they quickly get matched and you start looking stupid: Volvo 740 Intercooler, VTEC decals on Hondas, etc.

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    There's no word of VDC being offered on any other '07 Outback, that I've seen. It appears to be a Spec.B- and Tribeca-only feature for '07.

    Bob
  • snowbeltersnowbelter Member Posts: 288
    I guess the folks at Subaru don't read CR (or care what they say). All the CR reviews I recall mention the lack of stability control in the Outback except in the most expensive model (the VDC), and mention the tendency of the Outback to "wag its tail", a tendency which is lessened with the VDC.

    Martin
  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    We still have no word on specs, just names. If spec-B gets VDC, there is a chance, LL Bean will do, too. I'm just saying - it is possible. Naming a model trim after a stability control feature was silly at the first place - perhaps they dropped the name and will spread the feature lower. How low - we shall see...

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • dino001dino001 Member Posts: 6,191
    is progressive disapearance of stick shift. Joe's website show not no manual SE Legacy wagon - just 2.5i. How far is THAT going to go? Another brand with no manual or only in some funny trims (vide: Passat)?

    2018 430i Gran Coupe

  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I've said from the day the VDC model first appeared, that it should be combined with the LL Bean model. In my mind it made no sense to have two premium-level Outbacks competing with one another. Maybe (hopefully!) that's what is going to happen.

    I've also just noticed that if you get a Legacy GT automatic, and you opt for NAVI, VDC is part of the package. Maybe it's that way with the '07 LL Bean and Outback XT too?

    Bob
  • wmquanwmquan Member Posts: 1,817
    I'd be shocked too if Subaru lessened the use of some form of stability control system, rather than increasing it like almost every other manufacturer.

    Subaru's AWD systems are generally better than the competition. But the advantage is hard to sell to some folks who are being conditioned to look for stability control. Those buyers don't understand / don't care about the VTD being better than a read-and-react AWD system. Thus, they may think the Subarus are lacking because it doesn't have stability control on the checklist.

    Is there a way for Subaru to make a "cheaper" or "easier" stability control system other than the VDC implementation? Though if they cheap out like Honda has in the past, the stability control wouldn't be as effective.

    (Cheap out -- earlier Honda systems were pretty ineffective. The original TL-S was noted for having an ineffective VSA during driving events. When the next-gen TL came out, it was revealed that the new model had a four-wheel VSA, rather than a two-wheel VSA that the older TL-S had. Honda hadn't previously notedthat the older TL-S had stability control on just two wheels, something which is poor even on a FWD vehicle.)
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    If they expand the usage of VDC to other models, I would think the unit cost per vehicle would drop. If that's true, I would hope that SOA would pass those savings on to the customer.

    Bob
  • saedavesaedave Member Posts: 694
    Bob,
    I'm not sure VDC in the present implementation...at least with the limited slip rear differential in my 3.0R VDC is as focused on straight line stability as VW's system which I had on my W8 Passat. Injudicious use of throttle on snow produces a tail wag or weave which was not present with the VW system.

    On the other hand, VDC permits far more aggressive driving; the VWs plow rather than wag their tails.

    Now that Toyota is part of the picture, a less expensive system like theirs might be in the offing.
    Dave
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Good news here folks...

    All Outback H6 Models and all Outback 2.5 XT models will come with VDC. Only the Legacy 2.5 GT 5EAT NAVI and Legacy GT spec.B will have VDC.

    That makes a total of 9 Legacy/Outbacks that will have VDC... as opposed to the current number of 1.

    Got that from someone supposedly in the know.

    Bob
  • wmquanwmquan Member Posts: 1,817
    That would be awesome, though not totally surprising. I only wish they had done it sooner! Putting VDC on the XT and GT is welcome, though overdue.

    I agree that the cost should drop with it in more vehicles. I think that's what other manufacturers have found.

    Any idea if Subaru gets any help in the development of their VDC? E.g. stability control was first developed jointly by Mercedes and Bosch (I think Continental Teves also was in there). There's various licensing agreements (e.g. VW, Saab, etc. license the "ESP" from Bosch and/or Conti-Teves).
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.thecarconnection.com/Vehicle_Reviews/Sports_Convertibles/2007_Subaru_- Legacy_GT_Spec_B.S184.A10483.html
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    That's good news indeed. I figured they would add it for 07 - simply because I went for an 06 :).

    I know they are constantly tweaking and adding features as standard that were previously premium items each year. You can wait forever to get all the bells and whistles for a good price, or just get the vehicle the best way you can, when you can.

    Mark
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Good news, I guess, but could they make it any more confusing? 3 years from now someone will be shopping for a used '06 or '07, imagine the trouble it'll be to explain which models have it and which don't.

    They should have made it according to drivetrain, at least, give VDC to all H6s and turbos, period.

    -juice
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.subaru.co.jp/legacy/tasting/
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Man, they have a ton of stuff in Japan!

    http://accessory.subaru.co.jp/legacy/catalog/index.html

    Bob
  • jeffmcjeffmc Member Posts: 1,742
    Here's the Subaru-based Prodrive P2 being wrung out by Top Gear:
    http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/06/05/topgear-tests-the-prodrive-p2/
    Quite an impressive video. My initial response to the P2 was that it was a neat showcase of technology, but that was about it. Now... whoa! What a halo car that would be for Subaru! Even if they only made a thousand, there'd be enough buyers willing to fork out $70-$80k for something like that, and they'd get some amazing brand publicity to make it worthwhile.
    *drool*
    Maybe the response from Top Gear would be enough to make Subaru (& Prodrive) think about it.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Fantastic video. Wow.

    At first my reaction was lukewarm for that concept, but then I heard it was based on the R1, and thought about the curb weight...

    I still think the styling has to be tweaked, and the price is still too high.

    The Lotus Exige cost, what, $50 grand or so? Maybe a little more? I realize this performs a lot better but that would still probably be the most direct competitor, and Lotus has a lot more name recognition than Prodrive.

    -juice
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