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Comments
Bob
Craig
Side-curtain airbags on the Forester? It doesn't have them and STILL gets better crash test results than all the other vehicles in its class, including those that do have them. I don't see adding more airbags as an urgent need, as long as Subaru stresses its class-leading safety. I say wait 'til the '09 model to incorporate them.
Dated interior? Maybe Subaru will add the metallic "wings" to the sides of the dash (a la Tribeca/08 Legacy), a round gearshift bezel, & round, illuminated cupholders to match the '08 Legacy, but I doubt they'd invest too much in dramatically re-making the interior (but who knows?!). Maybe they'll incorporate SI Drive on the XT. That I could see happening soon.
Maybe Subaru will try to add excitement to the aging Forester by releasing an STI version. I think they need to do something like that to "one-up" the new turbo-charged Acura RDX with SH-AWD.
So far this is just a small rumor though, with not even much discussion about it... a "friend of a friend works high up in Subaru" kinda rumor.
Do they need this to "one-up" the RDX? Doubtful, considering the RDX will cost at least $5k, if not $10k more than the FXT.
Doug
While the Forester did fine in one particular IIHS side-impact test without side curtains, they're a feature that more and more consumers are looking for on their checklists. Just like stability control. As the competition gets these features (either optional or standard), the Forester will suffer if Subaru doesn't add them.
OTOH, if Subaru's limited resources does not permit it to significantly refresh the Tribeca, I can understand how they'd put off a Forester redesign. It's just too bad Subaru's designers and marketing folks couldn't see how the Tribeca in its current form would have challenges, when a lot of folks here predicted as much.
Craig
And now we Forester fans, have to wait an extra year, to see our favorite model redesigned
However, I do think Forester needs to get side curtain airbags on all trims, and 5EAT/VDC at least for the top line.
I hope designers would not mess up the exterior styling of Forester too much -- the current "chunky" formula worked well for 2 generations of Foresters.
• The engine is too small for such a heavy vehicle. If you're going to have controversial styling, you'd better have a killer engine and vehicle performance, or at least a killer performance option. The original WRX was no looker, but because it was such a great performer (and value), most people looked beyond the styling.
• Very poor 3rd-row seating in terms of room and comfort.
• Poor outward rear visibility for the driver. Also, the rear quarter windows are mere portholes for 3rd-row passengers to look out of. This about as "un-Subaru" as you can get.
• Pricing a bit too steep for most Subie customers.
Put all those factors together and you get so-so sales.
Bob
I'm just a such a superficial car enthusiast
Not to mention the framed windows!
Incremental changes and staying close to the original concept seems to have worked for the Forester. I wonder if Subaru sees any reason to mess with the formula.
Ken
Bob
You're not being superficial. You've got to live with a vehicle every day. If you find it repulsive, it's not for you. Some find the Tribeca distinctive, some find it ugly. One post I've seen sums up the opinions of some: "it's ugly, it's slow, it's too small, and it's too expensive. What was Subaru thinking?"
It reminds me of a poll I posted on another forum -- "Is the Tribeca Beautiful or Ugly?" 55 votes submitted. No, this isn't scientific, but it's got to be scary for Subaru. Hopefully the redesign will make a large change.
1.82% I think it's beautiful
20.0% I think it's better than average
16.36% I'm neutral; overall, I don't like it, I don't dislike it
25.45% I think it's worse than average
36.36% I think it's ugly
I don't think they should try to bring the vehicle upmarket, as Foresters seem to sell based on being good values.
They may be Photoshop efforts, then again maybe not. The Legacy and Forester images are the closest to being true images, I think. If nothing else, they provide some good fodder for discussion.
Bob
http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/1364
Bob
Bob
Bob
I'm incline to think neither Toyota nor Subaru.
None of them have a plant in Michigan.
-Dave
Its biggest problem will be it'll end up competing with the "little brothers" instead of the CR-V and RAV4. The next Matrix, the FR-V if it makes it here, and others like the Jeep Patriot will match it more closely. The Tucson instead of the Sante Fe.
They can do that, but then they'll really have to keep the prices down.
Solution - offer two wheelbases, like Toyota has with the RAV4, even though only the longer one is sold in the US.
-juice
Subaru sets the 07 STI Limited at the same price as the regular STI! :surprise: Subaru really seems to be paying attention to pricing right now... probably an effort to do away with rebates as much as possible and retain resale value. Good for them, and good for us consumers, too!
They toss the 2 spoilers and the BBS rims, which are pricey. That left room for heated leather and a moonroof. In the end it's a bargain that more upscale shoppers will tolerate and I bet it sells out quick!
-juice
I think it'll sell quickly too. There's plenty of people that want fast, but there's even more than want fast and feature-rich. STI sets the reputation, Limited reaps the sales. That's a good 1-2 combo that I hope Subaru continues to do with Impreza and other models. I bet STI Limited will be a regular model next year, like what happened with the Spec B.
ateixeira, "Subaru Crew - Future Models II" #17853, 18 Apr 2006 12:49 pm
and the relevant text:
it might come out at the same price as the regular STI
Bingo!
-juice
Bob
You get an STI, juice, and we'll splurge and take care of the cost of the upgrade to a Limited for you.
I'll take Bob's $17,000 prize, thanks very much.
-juice
-juice
http://carsguide.news.com.au/story/0,20384,20248914-21822,00.html
Bob
Now I'm really eager to see the next Imprezas. Alfa-type styling could be very exciting on a smaller car like that.
Actually, I had heard he was gone, or on the way out, back in January. So now it's official.
Bob
Man, the Impreza has been one confused model line from a design standpoint ever since they introduced the bug-eyed model. They've drastically altered the front end, what, every 2-3 years on average?
Ken
I think the current Impreza front end looks good -- it's the best implementation of the airplane theme so far, and probably the best looking of all three variations on this generation Impreza. I didn't mind the 02-03 bug-eye look, but the 04-05 styling was lousy.
I do think they could have done a far better job on the Tribeca and still kept to the airplane theme. It just never looked right to me.
I think they could have evolved the airplane look (as in the Impreza) but it sounds like they are going to ditch it all together. Next question -- what about the "upscale" move -- I guess that has flopped too, now that we have an Outback "basic" model with steel wheels?
Craig
You guys know I'm a graphic designer, and I've spoken about this untold times. I see it very much like the design work that I do. I often latch on to an idea or concept that I'm convinced is the right design solution. I start working on it, and after some time it's still not quite right... I put it aside and come back to it a day or so later—with a clear head, and lo and behold, I can see what's not working, and how to fix it. To me the designers of the Tribeca had the right instincts, but didn't allow enough time for the natural design solutions to work themselves out.
Also keep in mind that the FHI CEO—a guy who's not a designer—had a LOT of input here. Not only is Zap gone, but so is that CEO. I guess what i'm saying is the design department may have been forced to execute this guy's vision. Unfortunately this happens to designers all too often, regardless of whether you're designing cars or logos.
Bob
My 2¢, anyway.
A lot of folks are surprised by my XT. Turns out a lot of them haven't driven a Subaru for eight, ten years. They expect a very spartan interior with few, if any, power features.
Many don't realize how well Subaru does nowadays in Consumer Reports' reliability surveys, either.
My understanding is that the 07 USDM models have the feature content of the "new" 07 JDM models (SI drive, expanded use of VDC, etc) and the only major change to USDM for 08 will be the cosmetic exterior tweaks that JDM got for 07. Are there more sweeping changes coming to USDM models for 08?
To me, something of good "value" means pushing the price/performance (feature) envelope. "Premium" is just one data point higher up on the price/performance curve. In other words, one could have a "premium" model that also delivers good value. There are other points on this curve such as "standard" and "basic", for example.
All manufacturers strive to offer the highest value (price/performance) for any given product configuration. Consumers are smart and they pick up on getting the most bang for the buck.
I think Craig has a point, with the new "basic" OB model introduction. To me that signals that Subaru is hedging their "premium" strategy by also offering "basic" models.
Ken
I see "upscale" as taking the overall level of the vehicle to a higher point, and to a higher pricing level.
VW doesn't do a bad job in having "Value Edition" versions of their models. Of course, some of their models seem to be "premium" but some have also gone "upscale." E.g. there's a Passat Value Edition, a Passat 2.0T higher trim which I'd consider premium, and a rather pricey 3.6 model that's definitely upscale.
So maybe the lower-price Outback and 2.5's are the value models, while the XT's and LL Beans are the premium ones. With good value.
Value
This pushes the buttons of probably more so-called "middle-class" customers, in that it suggests getting the most for your money. This is your classic middle-America customer.
Premium
This pushes the buttons of those more interested in "impressing others," and to show their status in life. A lot of wannabes here too.
Most "value-oriented" people are uncomfortable with the word premium, and vice-versa, as it suggests something they aren't, or don't really want to be associated with. So I can see why many traditional Subaru customers are having trouble with this move up-market, as for the most part they have been value customers, and are resisting the change for the brand to become associated with something they aren't, or don't want to be.
Bob
The 05+ Legacy/Outback models surely brought a fresh new modern style and have much better interior materials than the previous generation. But that's not saying a lot -- those cars were seriously behind the times. You can look at any recent Mazda or Honda and realize that Subaru is just barely staying with the competition nowadays. If that's what "premium" does, I don't buy it! It just seems like a verbal attempt to make me think Subaru is better.
I do think the recent content additions and price drops in the 07 models is a good thing for Subaru. It positions Subaru to compete better with the mainstream.
Are you concerned that Subaru focuses effort on "different" features like SI drive rather than adding the match-the-competitors features?
Historically, Subaru has always been 2-3 years behind in audio features though. Back when I bought my 2000 Outback, it still came with a cassette player (CD was an additional component option to install). Ironically, the 97 Honda that I traded in for that Outback had CD, as did many cars prior to 2000!
When I first learned about SI drive, my reaction was that it was a classic Subaru gadget that would be irrelevant to most shoppers. That opinion has changed since I learned that the 07 Outback XT 5EAT gas mileage is up to 20/26 (from 19/24) presumably due to the intelligent mode of SI drive. So that's a plus for sure. I still think it's stupid that they had to relocate the heated seat controls to a smaller knob that is hard to reach just to accomodate the SI drive dial. That is clearly a gadget decision there -- moving frequently used controls and reducing their functionality for something that is less likely to be used on a regular basis... But hey, maybe that big knob looks cool to some people (I doubt it). If I had to wager, I would say the same people that made decisions about the Tribeca decided where to put the SI drive knob!
Add telescopic steering wheel (available on Honda Fit), side curtains (none on Imprezas), HID lamps (std. only on STI, not available elsewhere). The list goes on and on.
They appear to be "going Acura" - limited number of trims, virtually no options (only dealer-installed accessories). That's fine with me. The big problem is that the provided equipment level is "mid-Camry" spiced with selective "eye-catchers" (like SI-Drive). Many of us go for it, just because we like the brand anyway, but they will not win over Acura or Volvo customers by cherry-picking what is available. Even if Legacy GT blows away TSX or Outback crushes S40/V50, speed is not everything. Traction is not everything for these buyers, either. Their expected minimum is fit and finish (lets say the're getting there), and either good choice of extras (Volvo, Audi, Saab) or "everything included" approach (Acura).
Get Legacy equipped as TSX and price it similar and then you can see some people moving that direction. Otherwise, they're going to lose low-end buyers but not gain any "premium" in their place.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
The aircraft nose theme, I think, was done quite well on Impreza but badly overdone on Tribeca. In general, Tribeca's style kind of sucks IMHO, and I hope FHI will revise it dramatically for next release.
- Inegrated in-key remote
- Push button start
- Automatic service reminders