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Comments
-juice
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jatco_transmissions
Eric
Now that there is nothing coming as a hand-me-down from Nissan will Toyota be the next source? And just what do they have to lend?
Subaru is working on a Mini van. Toyota's is the only one now that has AWD. Toyota can help Subaru with body, frame, and interior seating mechanics. Subaru contributes AWD technology.
And of course hybrid and diesel development.
The use of "hand me down" is not completely accurate here.
Subaru is not in trouble - their alliance with Toyota is of choice.
Chrysler gets hand me downs from Mercedes.
So does Mitsubishi.
It will be interesting to see how the Subaru-Toyota alliance will evolve.
Charlie
Subaru is not in trouble - their alliance with Toyota is of choice
I was not implying that Subaru was in trouble.......just a niche manufacturer minimizing cost. It is still a niche manufacturer and can not innovate in all areas without excessive cost.
I hope the Toyota alliance will result in more fuel- efficient Subaru engines among other possible benefits. I just hope Toyota rotten handling doesn't become part of the package.
IMHO Subaru will never water down their AWD systems and handling characteristics. They told GM to take a hike!
Charlie
It would create a halo car for both lines. Lots of people have asked for a more mature STI, and the STI Limited may still be too edgy for them.
As for the Forester, it would please those that have asked for an STI wagon.
-juice
Bob
:shades:
Hope it comes on the wagon! ha
http://www.carpages.co.uk/subaru/subaru-impreza-sports-wagon-01-11-06.asp
Bob
-juice
Bit of an oxymoron don't you think??
I wonder how many they sold?
Ever seen that Versa commercial? Starts at $12.5k, $17.7k as shown?
Subaru would be right there with those.
-juice
I also requested an MT Legacy wagon, a turbo with cloth seats, etc... they put the kibosh on every one. Oh well.
After suffering severe acorn-ding damage on the WRX this fall, I was hoping for ding-resistant plastic, like what Saturn uses, but that's not to be the case... :sick:
Bob
Ken
Bob
* facelifted 08 Legacy/Outback in late spring or early summer 07
* facelifted 08 Tribeca in late spring or early summer 07
* all-new 08 Impreza in late spring or early summer 07
* all-new 09 Forester in late spring or early summer 08
John
I think we will see it here, probably in the Forester first. When, I'm not sure. I doubt it will show up on the current body style, however.
Bob
http://www.naias.com/SubPage.aspx?id=576
Any guesses?
It had been "leaked" earlier that SOA would debut the '08 Legacy here. Might the extensively overhauled '08 Tribeca debut instead?
Bob
-Brian
-mike
John
http://www.chevron.com/products/prodserv/fuels/diesel/ulsd.shtml
Bob
BTW, my local vendor of off-road diesel says the stuff they are selling is only 129,500 btu per gallon. This compared to premium diesel (pre ULSD) which is normally 138,700. All of which should result in about a 6 to 8% loss in fuel economy, and horsepower.
John
So will we also see it here sometime in the future?
Bob
But what about the Subaru DNA? Where's the AWD? Where's the boxer engine?
Sorry but someone has to bring it up.
Interesting though that Diahatsu will manufacture it for both Toyota and Subaru.
-mike
As to the boxer engine, I agree, but Subaru R1, R2. Stella, Pleo and Justy don't have boxer engines either.
Bob
True they aren't boxer-powered, but they are AWD. For a vehicle this size boxer engines are both good and bad. They're good in that the center of gravity is low, but they're bad in that they make the vehicle longer—and I believe in Japan cars are taxed by their size. So the shorter the car, the less tax has to be paid.
So are you're suggesting that Subaru not make tiny cars, because they don't fit my definition of my "ideal" as to what a Subaru should be? I'm saying Subaru should compete in these small car sizes, but I'm also aware—for this class of car—a boxer engine may not be the best solution. For larger cars, yes, stick with the boxer format.
If Subaru can find a way to make an extremely short boxer engine, then great; but I don't think it can be done. The only thing they could do is put the tranny under the engine, like the Honda Gold Wing motorcycle, but then you lose the low center of gravity advantage.
As much as I like the boxer engine, and as much as I think it's important for Subaru's identity, I'm not going to be held hostage by it. For larger cars (Impreza and up) it makes sense. For tiny cars, where you have to maximize space within a given overall length, it may not make sense.
Bob
But you've said that both features are part of Subaru DNA:
rsholland, "Subaru's fortunes sinking - can they turn it around?" #1881, 20 Feb 2006 1:34 pm
rsholland, "Subaru's fortunes sinking - can they turn it around?" #842, 7 Oct 2005 8:51 am
If it's that important to their core buyers then my answer is YES - they should not make tiny cars that can't incoporate those features. That would be like Aston making mid size family cars and Land Rover makes sport coupes.
Altough I am glad to see that you are willing to be open to other formats for Subaru.
Bob
Bob
What choice do I have? Subaru has for years made small cars without AWD and boxer engines. At least they are offered with AWD.
If you're trying to goad me into saying that I might be willing to accept an Impreza, Forester, Legacy, Outback or Tribeca—their core vehicles for which they are known worldwide—without AWD or a boxer engine, then you've failed. That I won't except as it would be the kiss of death for Subaru.
Bob
That's not my intent at all.
All I wanted was to point out was that over the years all I've heard from Subaru loyalists was that AWD and boxer are the defining points for Subaru. Whenever anyone floated the idea of perhaps a V6 or a FWD Subaru or a cheaper product, the loyalists shout out NO NO NO - that's not a Subaru.
But now that Subaru is going to sell a rebadged Toyota/Diahatsu with a non-boxer engine and FWD, it's all of a sudden OK because they need a small car. I expected outrage from the loyalists - especially if this vehicle may come to North America.
I still believe that. I've not changed one bit on that thought.
But now that Subaru is going to sell a rebadged Toyota/Diahatsu with a non-boxer engine and FWD, it's all of a sudden OK because they need a small car. I expected outrage from the loyalists - especially if this vehicle may come to North America.
Huh? Subaru has been selling tiny 660cc FWD cars with transverse inline engines for years. I knew that. This is nothing new. I've accepted that.
Having said that, I would be extremely surprised—horrified—if the Subie versions that are sold outside of Japan are not 100% AWD. I have no doubt, based on FHI history, that JDM models will come as both FWD and AWD.
Bob
That's great Bob. I guess I expected you to deride this vehicle as unacceptable for North America. But if it comes here and doesn't have those features I expect you to drive to Cherry Hill with your torch and fork.
That's been true of the Justy, so I would expect the same of this vehicle.
Bob