Subaru Crew - Future Models II

kens

My wife laughed as she read your post over my shoulder. She was saying "I know...I know...". No argument that a minivan is the ultimate in space, not to mention those powered sliding doors. But the 3rd row in our hypothetical MDX would be used strictly for kids anyway.

What is the target demographic age for an MDX buyer?

Ken

c_hunter

Don't ask me where I read this, but I recall it was mature professional households with adults in their mid 40s to early 50s and school-age kids, teens, or college-age young adults. I remember seeing this in several reviews. The previous MDX did not draw in a lot of men buyers apparently, so the 07 model is specifically targeted to appeal to men in a lot of ways. The look/feel apparently has a lot more "brawn" to it in order to appeal to more mature men, and the sport/tech features are intended to make the MDX more interesting to guys who get into that stuff. The interior clearly has a gray-hair, tassel loafer, scotch/cigar men's styling to me -- kind of a mature swanky feel (especially in the lighter colors).

On the other hand, the RDX is targeted at 30s suburbanites with Tech jobs, 1-2 young kids or no kids, and many weekend sports/activities. That pegs our household pretty well (as does the TSX demographic, which is the above minus the kids and weekend activities). I think you can see the Tech aspect in the RDX interior/exterior styling for sure. It appeals to my tastes almost perfectly, compared to the MDX which makes me feel underdressed!

zman3

Hey now. I am not a gray-hair, tassel loafer, scotch/cigar man, but I do nearly fit the age and kids demographics (I'm still a bit young however).

The MDX would be for my wife, but I do agree the previous generation was a bit feminine IHMO.

I guess I also have to agree with the RDX demographics, because that does not describe me anymore, and I have zero interest in that particular vehicle.

Karl

nickel

For me, the problem is that the RDX seems so sporty and delicate at the same time, that going on it at the cabin (road full of potholes or snow), or getting wet ski clothing inside is not a nice outlook in my mind. At least Subaru spent years building an image in our minds where the Outbacks and Foresters were tough vehicles, and Acura is going against it. In Minnesota, almost everybody has to go to the woods 2 or 3 times a year.

pathtomax

When will the Forester get Navigation as an option? I didn't see it on the main Subaru site.

kens

Interesting. Well, for sure, the RDX target segment describes us very well maybe except for the many weekend sports activities. My wife and I used to be avid mountain bikers and skiier/boarders until we had our kids. I'm sure once our kids get bigger we'll be back at it.

Now you have me thinking about the RDX. So how much more room does it have than the OBXT? ;-)

Ken

wmquan

This long drift into the RDX and MDX is exactly why Subaru introduced the Tribeca. An Subaru option for people looking to upsize from an Outback.

Granted that the RDX/MDX are the near-luxury/premium vehicles, but the Tribeca was supposed to give Subaru loyalists a good option. Perhaps the 2008 refresh will help.

c_hunter

It's noticeably roomier than the XT/GT for passengers -- pretty much a couple extra inches in all directions around the driver and passenger, and a lot more legroom in the back seat. Sitting in the driver's seat is like being in a Lazy Boy chair compared to the tighter feeling in the OB/Leg. Door openings are bigger too. Where it's smaller is in the cargo area length, both with seats up and down. A good 8" shorter than the OB/Leg wagons. Of course it is taller so volume doesn't suffer a whole lot, just length for items like skis. If you sit in one and take a drive, you'll get a good feel for it. Definitely worth a look if you have experience with the GT wagon and are looking at the MDX. The RDX is squarely in between the two, but closer to the GT in terms of theme and handling.

Craig

c_hunter

This long drift into the RDX and MDX is exactly why Subaru introduced the Tribeca. An Subaru option for people looking to upsize from an Outback.

Very good point. I briefly considered the Tribeca, but it felt big to me and somewhat mini-van-ish. And the looks were barely acceptable to me -- not something that excited me from any angle (oddly, I liked the front better than the rear). I do hope it gets a good restyle for 2008 -- that would certainly help sales.

sweet_subie

yes, it seems to be that in every segment (legacy, out and tribeca), they are being taken over by competition. if they don;t do anything quick, they will rely solely on cash backs.

rsholland

http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/2166

Are these a hint of the future?

Bob

sweet_subie

i think this is how all future subaru faces will look like, obvious from 08 legacy & OB.

http://www.subaru-global.com/

bob, look at that oB STI, it looks fantastic, why did SOA screw up the 08 US OB ? the grille looks odd & it looks like bandaid fix. what are they thinking. i thought they got 05-07 right, again they start to screw up.

sweet_subie

see these, most of these JP OB features are in 08 US OB - steering controls etc. i bet the key fob will look the same.

why aren't we getting the rear vent ?

http://www.subaru.co.jp/legacy/outback/utility/04/

paisan

Well during the 48hrs Subaru Run, we were lucky enough to meet the CEO of SOA and I put in my own personal appeal "Big Sedan for a Big Man!" and grabbed my belly! The CEO was rolling on the floor and said he'd put a word in! I'm not sure if it will fall on deaf ears but I can't say you can tell anyone higher that we need a bigger sedan!



-mike

rsholland

If I were a betting man (which I'm not), I would bet the next-gen Legacy will be built off the Tribeca platform, which is a highly modified version of the current Legacy platform. The Tribeca is both wider and longer than the current Legacy.

Bob

bigelm

If I were a betting man (which I'm not), I would bet the next-gen Legacy will be built off the Tribeca platform, which is a highly modified version of the current Legacy platform. The Tribeca is both wider and longer than the current Legacy.

You liar

That's one of the biggest rumor going around in nabisco

I'm willing to bet that Bob's unwillingness to bet is because he doesn't want to bet, very well knowing, that he can bet it's going to be on the Tribeca platform.

Um... yeah, that's it

rsholland

Bob

rsholland

Found the following over there. It's from Automotive News, which is a pay/subscription site, hence my posting the text and not the link.

Originally Posted by Diana T. Kurylko, Automotive News
Subaru is revamping its slow-selling B-9 Tribeca crossover after only two years on the market.

The B-9 Tribeca, with controversial styling and a too-small engine that requires premium fuel, is selling at roughly half its projected rate.

The 2008 version that will be launched in May gets new front and rear styling and a more powerful engine that uses regular gasoline. And access to the rear seats will be improved, says Kunio Ishigami, CEO of Subaru of America. Subaru earlier had characterized changes to the vehicle as a minor freshening.

Subaru is responding to poor sales and criticisms of the crossover, says Ishigami. The highly polarizing design evoked a "50-50 reaction" among consumers, says Ishigami.

The B-9 Tribeca has never met Subaru's initial U.S. sales target of 3,000 units a month, or 36,000 units a year. Last year Subaru sold 18,614 B-9 Tribecas in the United States.

Subaru has offered lease programs as low as $299 per month for 36 months. Its supply has been as high as 120 days.

It is offering a $329 monthly lease rate for 36 months.

Dale Walker, owner of Walker's Renton Subaru in Renton, Wash., says more buyers will embrace the new version of the B-9 Tribeca.

"Once you get customers into the vehicle, they like it," he says. "It's the exterior appearance that is polarizing them."

With the styling changes and a more powerful engine that runs on regular gasoline, "Our numbers will go up," Walker says.

Ishigami doesn't mince words: Subaru wants higher sales from its flagship. The B-9 Tribeca is built at Subaru's U.S. factory in Lafayette, Ind., and exported to Europe and Japan.

Ishigami says the new front end is less radical and likely to attract more buyers. The rear was changed to improve visibility, responding to another owner complaint, says Ishigami.

Buyers asked Subaru for more power, so the 2008 B-9 Tribeca gets a 3.6-liter, six-cylinder boxer powerplant. It currently has a 3.0-liter six-cylinder engine.

Rear access to the second and third row of seats has been improved, but the overall dimensions of the B-9 Tribeca haven't changed, says Ishigami.

Subaru won't change the price of the B-9 Tribeca. But Ishigami hinted that Subaru may put more standard equipment on the crossover. The 2007 B-9 Tribeca starts at $30,620, including shipping, for the five-passenger version.

Ishigami says Subaru won't offer higher incentives to run out the B-9 Tribeca but has cut production so that the supply dwindles.

This pretty much confirms what we all suspected. What is new is that this article implies that all '08 Tribecas will be getting the 3.6 engine—and if true, that is new.

Bob

wmquan

Cool. So they addressed the styling, power, and visibility issues. It would have been too expensive for them to change the vehicle's dimensions by much. Maybe better visibility and improved access will help, but the new vehicle will still suffer from perceptions that it's too small (compared to mid-sized SUV's like the Pilot, or the upcoming Highlander replacement which will likely be bigger).

Still, these are important improvements and the 3.6 liter H6 sounds good. On paper, sounds like a good candidate to replace my 2001 MDX in 2008 or 2009!

c_hunter

Good news. I think the styling was the biggest problem.

nickel

The production version should be almost ready, but SOA must remember that many Subaru customers live on elevations or like to go there (as my case). So, if they can offer like 300 hp to carry those 4.2 tons, and keep the price 25% under the MDX, then we'll keep talking. Yesterday, my dealer was announcing a sale on the last B9 on his lot at $24,899. (Minneapolis).

paisan

Yummy, when it's time to upgrade the power on my Spec B, it'll have the drivetrain to handle the H6 3.6L power!

-mike

smittynyc

I'm very happy with these changes, too, and I can't wait to see the final result.

jeffmc

Improving the visibility should also help the interior feel larger, the back less cave-like. I assume we'll see the D pillars take on a more traditional style. Perhaps we'll see a different-shaped rear hatch window as well. All welcome improvements. Gotta see Subaru's new gadgetry in Japan come into play here... SI Drive, SI Cruise, passive keyless entry.

dino001

Don't hold you breath - knowing SoA, you will have to get an automatic with it and it will be an Outback. :sick:

paisan

I'm getting a Spec B in a month or 2 which will be just a 2.5L Turbo engine, but it'll have the 6MT and R180 rear end and suspension bits, so about 2 or 3 years later I'll get a 3.6L H6 and drop it in there.

-Mike

dino001

Oh - you mean - you'll do it yourself! Power to you then! I hope it'll fit the bay together with the tranny.

I just meant - knowing SoA way of doing business, they will find a way to sour it by putting auto in it or restricting use the engine to Outbacks robbing enthusiasts from the best of its use

css1

Thanks for the post Bob.

Now I see why my dealer could not procure a 5P LTD w/Nav and SE pkg.

It's unfortunate but the damage is done - after waiting 12 weeks my wife is disappointed and does not want a subaru. This weekend we ordered a Lexus IS 250 AWD.

In December when my Tribeca lease is due I'll pick up an 08' - Can't wait to see the changes.

Charlie

nickel

The new X6 is coming, and according to Edmunds is a good bet that it's bringing as the base engine, the twin turbo 3.0l. BMW had to develop this motor from scratch, and now, in just 1 year, it is permeating the whole lineup, it looks. But Subaru, with all the knowledge and experience, and not having to develop a new one, can't put a bigger displacement turbo on its cars, and not on a Tribeca of course. I can't understand it, can you?

paisan

It's all about resources and mass production. BMW sells a ton more vehicles with a larger profit margin than Subaru can afford to do it.

-mike

nickel

Think you can be right, let's see how the bigger displacement motor behaves.

ateixeira

Wow, more power on cheaper fuel, and better visibility on top of that? I have to wait and see it.

I was considering a CPO '06 model, but it looks like I at least have to wait and see the new 08s. Bad timing, I want to buy something soon. Gotta wait now, though.

I like the old styling so I hope it doesn't look awkward.

-juice

dino001

I exchanged couple of emails with SoA guys and it's confirmed - Outback Sedan and Legacy Wagon are dropped for '08.

kate5000

I can see why Outback sedan has been dropped, but Legacy wagon?!

ateixeira

Guess that's why the added the Outback Basic - to fill the gap the SE wagon leaves.

-juice

kate5000

I think Legacy wagon had a different appeal than Outback... I've always owned wagons and hatchbacks, never sedans. I like better rear visibility and cargo space in wagons. I feel bad that Legacy GT won't be available as a wagon - we were seriously thinking of it as next car for hubby.

ateixeira

While I agree, most people just bought Outbacks. Remember, we have a Legacy wagon. Most people ask us "how do you like your Outback?"

-juice

kate5000

heh, I'm always asked "How do you like your Subaru?"

kens

Yes, it certainly has a different appeal. Since owning my LGT wagon, I've gotten numerous compliments (including from Kate). Many times, I hear people say how they like the more sleek look vs. the OB without all the cladding.

It's too bad Subaru pulled this model. The LGT wagon had been around for a while (I think MY97?) and *finally* got the power and performance differentiation it deserved and it gets pulled after only three short years.

I guess there are still other makes out there that offer sporty wagons...Audi, BMW, Benz, Volvo, Mazda.

Ken

kate5000

There is definitely an audience that does not care for OB's cladding and raised suspension but wants a wagon, the sporty one. I wonder why Subaru so easily removed itself from competing in the sector of sporty wagons where it has a strong hold and a good reputation.

I'm sure there is a celebration now going on in the VW and Mazda camps.

c_hunter

At one point (possibly still true) Subaru sold more wagons in America than anyone else. Seems odd that they would pull resources out of that market. I was thinking about an LGT wagon next time around myself (was ready for a break from Outbacks and wanted sharper handling). Subaru certainly lost my purchase.

I don't think the Outback basic fills the gap left by the Legacy wagon -- it is too much of a stripper model for that. The Leg SE wagon had 17" alloy wheels, sunroof, and a couple other nice upgrades. Not to mention better handling and looks. The OB Basic wagon is quite frumpy in comparison.

paisan

Actually it dates back to 91.

The 91 Legacy Turbo came in wagon form. Interesting to note that the 91-94 Legacy Turbo Wagon only came in Automatic, whereas the 91-94 Legacy Turbo Sport Sedan came in AT or MT.

-mike

jeffmc

I think the larger, 5-door, '08 WRX will help fill the gap left by the loss of the GT wagon. Those who want better handling than the GT while retaining some utility can go with the new WRX, those who want better utility than the GT can go with Outback XT or even Forester XT.

That said, I thought the GT wagon was hot, and I will mourn the loss of Legacy wagons.

paisan

I think the hottest car on our 48hr Run last weekend was a white bone-stock Legacy GT Wagon 5-MT. I'll see if I can dig up a pic of it.

-mike

dino001

Eveybody from this forum, who liked wagon writes to them? I did my part already... Perhaps in '09 or '10 they would bring it back, of enough people complained?

nickel

Where it is that we have to write? I'm in. Shame on Subaru.

dino001

go to subaru.com and click on "contact us" link.

smittynyc

If anything, imo, Subaru should be making *more* SE wagons and marketing them aggressively, especially outside the heart of the snowbelt. It's a great entry level car for the entire brand, and it's arguably the best value in Subaru's product lineup.

And as others have observed, there's a pretty big difference in aesthetic. The Legacy is so clean and striking looking, especially when viewed alongside one of the Outbacks with two-tone cladding.

I'm sure it's too late to get Subaru to reconsider the decision to deep-six the Legacy wagon. If the Outback Basic is going to be the entry level for this platform, though, Subaru has to add 17" alloys and crossbars/cargo cover standard and probably knock down the price a bit. We bought our SE wagon with some add-ons like cross bars, fog lamps, shock sensor, and cargo tray/nets for less than any quote I got on a OB Basic.

ateixeira

Remember, though, if they market the Legacy wagon aggressively, that'll probably steal away a few Outback sales, and probably reduce profits.

Legacy wagons were always a well kept secret, and I guess we wanted it to remain in the lineup no matter what.

-juice

sweet_subie

I strongly believe SoA has big plans behind dropping legacy wagon. i agree that OB took the limelight away from legacy, as a 3rd time OB owner, for some reason i never looked at legacy wagon. Also, they never had a good selection, colors etc on legacy wagon.

So, SOA is mainly to blame for neglecting legacy brand for a long time. until 2 years ago it got GT, legacy has been without a powerful engine option. other sedans got 6cyl in late 90s, so legacy lost its way.