Agreed, except just make VDC standard, and NAV a stand-alone option.
Speaking of GPS, I saw an ad for a new Garmin that links up with MSN and gives you not only traffic info, but also weather and even the latest gas prices for stations in the POI database.
Now *that* is cool. I see a variance of 6-20 cents per gallon in my area, so even though it seems like very little, over time this would really add up, and the service would pay for itself.
It's only $50/year, so who's first to try it out and report back?
Haven't heard anything about it but I've done the turbo RS thing with a friend. It was nice but way too much of a PITA to use as a daily driver IMHO, especially no warranty...
Tribeca now gets a 3.6-liter motor. At 254 hp, it makes only marginally more power (the old one developed 245) but much more torque: 247 lb-ft (up from 215). At the same time, the new motor returns 10 percent better fuel economy and runs on regular fuel instead of premium.
That's enough to make me wait, sure. Especially the improvement in torque. 15% more torque using 10% less gas that costs 20-30 cents less per gallon? Heck yeah I'll wait for the '08.
I was fine with the old engine, you remember my comments. But the extra torque, given the payload I tend to carry, is a big selling point.
10% better mileage is good, mostly because range is poor when you only have a 16.9 gallon gas tank, and competitors have 20 or more.
I got 20.4 mpg the week I had it, mostly in the 'burbs and on a trip to the beach. That should mean I can break 22mpg on average, and I'd be thrilled with that. That's only 3mpg less than my Forester manages, and the 1 gallon bigger gas tank means range won't suffer, at least.
I don't have a big problem w/the current engine either. Maybe a bit slow off the line, but no problems passing whenever I want, and NJ traffic is pretty dense, requiring quickness. Key is to be in sport mode.
How much acceleration do you really need? I'd certainly take better off-line perf. though, and the greater economy is a huge plus to me.
We had 4 people and a dog, with only a small amount of cargo, for our trip. Broke 25mpg in many places.
No complaints at all about a lack of power (or our fuel economy), but maybe if all 7 seats were occupied and we had some luggage, I'd be happy to have those 247 lb-ft. :shades:
All 50 state compliant, no BluTech injection 6 speed manual. Gobs of torque, mid 8's 0-60. Has the same diesel particulate converter as the european Mazda 5 diesel.
2008 is looking good. Can't wait for the first Subie diesel.
slow reply, but it's very much a case of the rules being in favor of diesel. Audi dominated ALMS with a gas-powered turbocharged car and now is doing it again with diesel. It's all in the way the rules are laid out.
apples to apples, obviously diesel is NOT superior to gas engines for racing.
I think the 3.0l should be phased out, no question, but the smaller engine may have certain advantages like durability if the cylinder walls are thicker.
Sticking a relatively small engine in a heavy vehicle means that the engine will be working much of the time. Put a larger engine in that same vehicle, the engine will work less hard, thus getting better mileage.
The 3.0 is fine in the lighter Legacy and Outback, as it's not working that hard most of the time. However, in the much heavier Tribeca, the 3.0 is working hard most of the time, hence the poorer fuel mileage.
If they are boring/stroking the same block to develop the additional displacement (leaving everything else as-is), then the lower displacement engine might have the durability advantage.
But if the larger displacement is from a completely different block, then there may not be any durability issue at all.
Not when comparing comparable models. Invoice on LL Bean OB w/out Nav is about $1200 less than 5-pass Tribeca Ltd w/o Nav. Tribeca has a $2000 rebate & OB has a $750 rebate - a difference of $1250. You should be able to get either one for the same price. Bumping up to the 7-pass Tribeca Ltd w/o Nav would only be about $700 more.
Add in any factory-to-dealer incentives, and you might actually be able to get the Tribeca for less than the Outback. Most folks see the prices for loaded Tribecas approaching $40k & think the model's a lot more than Outback.
True, but I suspect the 3.6 will do a lot less "gear hunting" which is where most of the gas is wasted. In the 3.0 Tribeca, it downshifts at the mere sight of an incline, or any time you accellerate—even if just slightly. That likely won't happen nearly as often with the larger 3.6 engine.
America's largest-attended auto show will feature dozens of world and North American new vehicle debuts during its annual Press Preview, April 4th and 5th. Following is the list of events.
...over at nabisco—and one that won't make Frank happy!
According to some Subie dealer the next Forester will be based on the Tribeca! How much do I trust this info. About zero, but I thought I'd pass it on anyway.
More HP More torque 10-15% MPG increase No premium fuel Less gear hunting Lighter than the 3.0H6
Sounds like Subaru engineers have done it right. :shades: I've read Tribeca's HP-to-weight ratio will be better than its non-luxury-brand competitors, so it should move quite nicely. They'll have to turbocharge to beat their more expensive competition, though. If the new design sells, I expect to see it... they'll try to offer excellent value vs the performance luxury brands like they do with Legacy.
...and you know waaaay back in late '04/early '05 I bitched about the absurity of a Subaru B9X. Are the Subaru folks really surprised that the B9 designation (and its meaning, or lackthereof) resonated with absolutely NOBODY?
Overall, very interesting changes to the Tribeca. I can't wait to see how it looks.
This is a repost of the C/D link, I wanted to provide it again b/c the technical info on the displacement increase is very interesting, and provides insight into some of Subaru's innovative capabilities.... and the limitations/restrictions that the Boxer sometimes imposes.
came up with a novel way of increasing piston stroke without raising the cylinder deck height. The answer was an asymmetrical connecting-rod design (which looks somewhat like a lamb chop) that permits the piston to travel farther downward into the crankcase and increases the effective stroke from 80mm to 91mm
Not sure, but I doubt the weight will drop by the time they factor in added equipment.
I remember what they did with the Forester - I got a first year model, and they kept adding 1-2 more things standard as the years went on, usually without increasing the price.
For 99 they made cruise standard. In 00 the rear LSD arrived. And so on.
The 07 Tribeca got memory seats and a better cargo cover. Hopefully they add a few things to the 08s and keep a lid on pricing.
Anyone else notice Fitzmall just dropped the '07 prices by about a grand? Under $26k for a base model. With the Subaru Bucks I have, I could get one in the high $24s!
Still, I'm waiting to see the new one. As long as I keep my cars, I want the best vehicle this time, not necessarily the best deal.
It's hard for a cheapskate like me to admit that, too.
Comments
Speaking of GPS, I saw an ad for a new Garmin that links up with MSN and gives you not only traffic info, but also weather and even the latest gas prices for stations in the POI database.
Now *that* is cool. I see a variance of 6-20 cents per gallon in my area, so even though it seems like very little, over time this would really add up, and the service would pay for itself.
It's only $50/year, so who's first to try it out and report back?
-juice
-mike
-mike
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0
Harvest Gold or Bronze with Harvest Gold accents?? Yeeeesssshhhhh!!!
Tribeca now gets a 3.6-liter motor. At 254 hp, it makes only marginally more power (the old one developed 245) but much more torque: 247 lb-ft (up from 215). At the same time, the new motor returns 10 percent better fuel economy and runs on regular fuel instead of premium.
That's enough to make me wait, sure. Especially the improvement in torque. 15% more torque using 10% less gas that costs 20-30 cents less per gallon? Heck yeah I'll wait for the '08.
Anything more would just be gravy.
-juice
Bob
10% better mileage is good, mostly because range is poor when you only have a 16.9 gallon gas tank, and competitors have 20 or more.
I got 20.4 mpg the week I had it, mostly in the 'burbs and on a trip to the beach. That should mean I can break 22mpg on average, and I'd be thrilled with that. That's only 3mpg less than my Forester manages, and the 1 gallon bigger gas tank means range won't suffer, at least.
I'd still like to see a 20 gallon tank, no doubt.
-juice
How much acceleration do you really need? I'd certainly take better off-line perf. though, and the greater economy is a huge plus to me.
No complaints at all about a lack of power (or our fuel economy), but maybe if all 7 seats were occupied and we had some luggage, I'd be happy to have those 247 lb-ft. :shades:
All 50 state compliant, no BluTech injection 6 speed manual. Gobs of torque, mid 8's 0-60. Has the same diesel particulate converter as the european Mazda 5 diesel.
2008 is looking good. Can't wait for the first Subie diesel.
John
apples to apples, obviously diesel is NOT superior to gas engines for racing.
~Colin
-mike
Bob
i meant it is weird that leg/ob GT/H6 cost thousands less than tribeca but yields less mileage and requires premium gas.
I prefer the Passat wagon. Didn't like the rear end styling on the Golf/Jetta wagon I saw.
Can't wait to see what Subaru can do with theirs...
-juice
The 3.0 is fine in the lighter Legacy and Outback, as it's not working that hard most of the time. However, in the much heavier Tribeca, the 3.0 is working hard most of the time, hence the poorer fuel mileage.
Bob
-Brian
But if the larger displacement is from a completely different block, then there may not be any durability issue at all.
Not when comparing comparable models. Invoice on LL Bean OB w/out Nav is about $1200 less than 5-pass Tribeca Ltd w/o Nav. Tribeca has a $2000 rebate & OB has a $750 rebate - a difference of $1250. You should be able to get either one for the same price. Bumping up to the 7-pass Tribeca Ltd w/o Nav would only be about $700 more.
Add in any factory-to-dealer incentives, and you might actually be able to get the Tribeca for less than the Outback. Most folks see the prices for loaded Tribecas approaching $40k & think the model's a lot more than Outback.
Bob
Unless you prefer something smaller, that makes the Tribeca the better value.
-juice
America's largest-attended auto show will feature dozens of world and North American new vehicle debuts during its annual Press Preview, April 4th and 5th. Following is the list of events.
Wednesday, April 4
7:15 - 9:30 NYIAS / IMPA Keynote Address - Special Events Hall
9:40 - 10:05 General Motors - Stand, Level 3
10:10 - 10:35 Audi - Stand, Level 3
10:40 - 11:05 Ford - Stand, Level 3
11:10 - 11:30 Volvo - Stand, Level 3
11:40 - 12:05 Mercedes-Benz - Stand, Level 3
12:10 - 12:35 Infiniti - Stand, Level 3
12:35 - 1:10 Nissan North America - Stand, Level 3 (lunch)
1:20 - 1:45 Jeep - Inner, Roadway
1:55 - 2:20 Lexus - Special Events Hall
2:30 - 2:55 Subaru - Stand, Level 1
3:05 - 3:25 BMW - Stand, Level 3
3:30 - 3:50 Bentley - Stand, Level 3
4:00 - 4:35 Hyundai - Galleria, Level 4 (reception)
4:45 - 5:15 TAXI 07 Centennial Exhibit - Inner Roadway
Thursday, April 5
8:30 - 9:30 World Car of the Year Awards - Special Events Hall (breakfast)
9:40 - 10:05 Subaru - Stand, Level 1
10:15 - 10:40 Nissan - Stand, Level 3 (hospitality)
10:45 - 11:05 Maserati - Stand, Level 3
11:10 - 11:30 Lamborghini - Stand, Level 3
11:40 - 12:40 Suzuki - Stand, Level 1 (lunch)
12:45 - 1:10 Kia - Stand, Level 1 (reception)
1:20 - 1:40 Callaway - Crystal Palace
1:45 - 2:45 XM Satellite Radio - Crystal Palace
My guess is that the Tribeca is the first one.
Bob
According to some Subie dealer the next Forester will be based on the Tribeca! How much do I trust this info. About zero, but I thought I'd pass it on anyway.
Bob
Bob - you wanna go to the NY show on a weekday? Public days.
-juice
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0
Bob
I've already noticed Subaru refering to the vehicle in current TV spots as the Tribeca, and not the B9 Tribeca.
Bob
I've been calling it the Tribeca all along.
I hope the article is corrent, 20/25 mpg with 256hp and 247 lb-ft is sweet!
April 4th, right? I'm at the edge of my seat. :shades:
Subaru Impreza WRX
Please go there to comment about this upcoming model and my apologies for any confusion!
fixed
More torque
10-15% MPG increase
No premium fuel
Less gear hunting
Lighter than the 3.0H6
Sounds like Subaru engineers have done it right. :shades: I've read Tribeca's HP-to-weight ratio will be better than its non-luxury-brand competitors, so it should move quite nicely. They'll have to turbocharge to beat their more expensive competition, though. If the new design sells, I expect to see it... they'll try to offer excellent value vs the performance luxury brands like they do with Legacy.
Even if they did, I'd want the N/A 3.6l model. This is a family car for me, not a race car.
Overall, very interesting changes to the Tribeca. I can't wait to see how it looks.
This is a repost of the C/D link, I wanted to provide it again b/c the technical info on the displacement increase is very interesting, and provides insight into some of Subaru's innovative capabilities.... and the limitations/restrictions that the Boxer sometimes imposes.
http://www.caranddriver.com/autoshows/12685/2008-subaru-tribeca.html
~Joe
came up with a novel way of increasing piston stroke without raising the cylinder deck height. The answer was an asymmetrical connecting-rod design (which looks somewhat like a lamb chop) that permits the piston to travel farther downward into the crankcase and increases the effective stroke from 80mm to 91mm
I remember what they did with the Forester - I got a first year model, and they kept adding 1-2 more things standard as the years went on, usually without increasing the price.
For 99 they made cruise standard. In 00 the rear LSD arrived. And so on.
The 07 Tribeca got memory seats and a better cargo cover. Hopefully they add a few things to the 08s and keep a lid on pricing.
Anyone else notice Fitzmall just dropped the '07 prices by about a grand? Under $26k for a base model. With the Subaru Bucks I have, I could get one in the high $24s!
Still, I'm waiting to see the new one. As long as I keep my cars, I want the best vehicle this time, not necessarily the best deal.
It's hard for a cheapskate like me to admit that, too.
Can't you see it now in the tuner ads---"lamb chope for your subie!! Increase hp and torque by 10%" lol
John
When is the forester redesign due?
Bob
They're gonna end up with too much overlap again, though.
Bob